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I have a bunch of .223 Wylde guns, and have used them for many years. I have a bunch of 6.5 Grendels. The only reason I use .223/5.56 for anything now is close range training for CQM. For reaching out and hitting steel with authority, and cutting through the wind soup, the 6.5 Grendel makes long range almost boring really, and you actually hear the impact, unlike .223 Rem, which is very hard to spot your hits with at distance when there is wind. As far as 6.5 Grendel barrels and bolts go, here are the go-to companies: Alexander Arms, who did all the RDT&E over many years for the 6.5 Grendel JP Enterprises Precision Firearms Lilja makes a great drop-in barrel as well. Get bolts from AA. Ammunition costs: You have everything from cheap steel case Wolf to high end premium target and hunting ammo with 6.5 Grendel. Brass-cased PPU 120gr HPBT is normally around $14/box, but I bought it last for $9.99/box. I shoot a lot of Hornady AMAX and SST factory ammo, as well as AA 123gr Scenar, PF 120gr Scenar-L, 123gr SMK, 123gr Scenar, plus my hand loads. You have 37 factory loads for 6.5 Grendel last I checked. If you hand load, components are readily available, with brass from Lapua, Hornady, Norma, Nosler, and PPU. Here's some shooting I was doing last weekend with my 17.6" Lilja barreled 6.5 Grendel with my 123gr AMAX hand load in Lapua brass with CFE223. This load was holding sub-MOA out to 1000yds for me, rapid fire. At 100rds rapid fire, it just cuts a ragged hole in the target, waste of ammo. http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/1a66b54a-b911-4d86-9fea-59ab2a638547_zpsitxtcgof.jpg http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/IMG_03541_zpsm3pxrazy.jpg http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/IMG_03501_zpsqanaomrm.jpg http://youtu.be/i_ajiB0kkyc View Quote I actually had read and watched your videos in your other thread. I appreciate all the info and help. How much flaring does the ejection port typically need on uppers or will most allow the 6.5 casing to eject without issues? |
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LRRPF52 covered it pretty well, his info is always good.
I don't know about using P-mags. I think I remember reading the post that said a few would work at a time. My only question is why? Grendel mags are not that expensive and having a couple that could be fully loaded if desired would seem to be more advantageous. Using P-mags and having iffy performance would be taking away from the platform. My upper is a Seekins billet and has never had an issue with ejection. |
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I actually had read and watched your videos in your other thread. I appreciate all the info and help. How much flaring does the ejection port typically need on uppers or will most allow the 6.5 casing to eject without issues? View Quote The receivers and every other part remain the same. Only different parts are: * Barrel * Bolt * Magazine |
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LRRPF52 covered it pretty well, his info is always good. I don't know about using P-mags. I think I remember reading the post that said a few would work at a time. My only question is why? Grendel mags are not that expensive and having a couple that could be fully loaded if desired would seem to be more advantageous. Using P-mags and having iffy performance would be taking away from the platform. My upper is a Seekins billet and has never had an issue with ejection. View Quote Thanks. I planned to use round specific mags I was just curious is the magpul info was true or not. |
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The receivers and every other part remain the same. Only different parts are: * Barrel * Bolt * Magazine View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I actually had read and watched your videos in your other thread. I appreciate all the info and help. How much flaring does the ejection port typically need on uppers or will most allow the 6.5 casing to eject without issues? The receivers and every other part remain the same. Only different parts are: * Barrel * Bolt * Magazine Appreciate that. I understood the parts list but I had read that some uppers needed to have the ejection port flared do to hang ups on the grendal casings. I was curious to this factor. |
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I just took some measurements of ejection port opening diameters:
Aero Precision upper on my Lilja Grendel: .494" Square forge M4 upper on my 16" Grendel: .494" Seekins billet upper on my 22" Grendel: .530" DPMS LR/AP4 upper for reference (.308/.260 Rem large frame): .555" Grendel uses standard uppers, no need for ejection port enlargement. .458 SOCOM, .50 Beowulf, and .17 HMR need larger ejection ports. |
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I just want to throw one more out there but i have been looking hard at the .277 Wolverine, they have not sent it out for SAAMI standardization yet, but it sounds like they are close, once they do i will be adding that to the stable. If you want extreme long range you can't go wrong with the 6.5 Grendel, the downside is you need a new barrel, bolt, and magazines, same goes for the 6.8SPC, but the .277 wolverine uses a 5.56mm case, and a 6.8mm bullet. Giving you a rifle that only needs a barrel change, uses the same bolt, same mags, as a .223/5.56mm AR15. It gives you 95-98% of what the 6.8SPC gives you, and way less proprietary parts.
http://www.maddogweapons.com/ But if you want a rifle that can out shoot a 308 and 1000yds then get the 6.5 Grendel, but if you plan to keep it under 500yds there are less complicated options IMO. |
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I just want to throw one more out there but i have been looking hard at the .277 Wolverine, they have not sent it out for SAAMI standardization yet, but it sounds like they are close, once they do i will be adding that to the stable. If you want extreme long range you can't go wrong with the 6.5 Grendel, the downside is you need a new barrel, bolt, and magazines, same goes for the 6.8SPC, but the .277 wolverine uses a 5.56mm case, and a 6.8mm bullet. Giving you a rifle that only needs a barrel change, uses the same bolt, same mags, as a .223/5.56mm AR15. It gives you 95-98% of what the 6.8SPC gives you, and way less proprietary parts. http://www.maddogweapons.com/ But if you want a rifle that can out shoot a 308 and 1000yds then get the 6.5 Grendel, but if you plan to keep it under 500yds there are less complicated options IMO. View Quote For sure sounds like a round for me to check out on the future but I think I'm leaning towards the 6.5 at this point. I do plan to build both the Wylde and 6.5 at some point. It's just a matter of what to start with on this new upper receiver. 6.5 is just calling my name |
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Use 300 BLK for your close range work.
Use 6.5 Grendel for standard rifle range distances and beyond. If you have any public ranges local to you with steel targets at distance, people are going to look over at you and wonder what is going on when they hear and see the steel impacted like that from a tiny little AR15. |
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Use 300 BLK for your close range work. Use 6.5 Grendel for standard rifle range distances and beyond. If you have any public ranges local to you with steel targets at distance, people are going to look over at you and wonder what is going on when they hear and see the steel impacted like that from a tiny little AR15. View Quote This was my thought in doing a 6.5 upper. Since I have the 300 for close-med range |
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From well known 6.8 junkie, go Grendel. LRRP stated all the reasons.
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I've never had issues with my Cproducts or ASC mags, but did see one of the old CProducts 10rd mags that had one feed lip perpendicular to the magazine body, instead of angled upwards like it should be when looked at from the side. I bent it into place, and it worked from then on, but those mags haven't been made in a long time.
I'm still testing the Elanders myself. I'll have a more definitive opinion in about a year of regular use in my courses and shoot schedule. |
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Never ordered from these folk before but they show stock. I've had no problems with my ASC mags but I'm only 80 rounds into them.
gun mag warehouse |
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Please stop referring to the Wylde chamber as if it's some other cartridge. It's just one chamber design out of dozens for the 223 Remington / 5.56x45 cartridge.
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Please stop referring to the Wylde chamber as if it's some other cartridge. It's just one chamber design out of dozens for the 223 Remington / 5.56x45 cartridge. View Quote Never mentioned it as a round. I mentioned it as the barrel choice I'm looking at that gives me the option to shoot 2 rounds from One barrel. Please read before posting useless info. Thanks. |
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Never mentioned it as a round. I mentioned it as the barrel choice I'm looking at that gives me the option to shoot 2 rounds from One barrel. Please read before posting useless info. Thanks. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Please stop referring to the Wylde chamber as if it's some other cartridge. It's just one chamber design out of dozens for the 223 Remington / 5.56x45 cartridge. Never mentioned it as a round. I mentioned it as the barrel choice I'm looking at that gives me the option to shoot 2 rounds from One barrel. Please read before posting useless info. Thanks. It's not useless info, and your post is an example of why. There are not 2 different rounds to shoot from one barrel. The 223 Remington and the 5.56x45 are the same cartridge. The Wylde chamber doesn't give you any capability that isn't there with dozens of other chamber designs, and has some downsides. |
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It's not useless info, and your post is an example of why. There are not 2 different rounds to shoot from one barrel. The 223 Remington and the 5.56x45 are the same cartridge. The Wylde chamber doesn't give you any capability that isn't there with dozens of other chamber designs, and has some downsides. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Please stop referring to the Wylde chamber as if it's some other cartridge. It's just one chamber design out of dozens for the 223 Remington / 5.56x45 cartridge. Never mentioned it as a round. I mentioned it as the barrel choice I'm looking at that gives me the option to shoot 2 rounds from One barrel. Please read before posting useless info. Thanks. It's not useless info, and your post is an example of why. There are not 2 different rounds to shoot from one barrel. The 223 Remington and the 5.56x45 are the same cartridge. The Wylde chamber doesn't give you any capability that isn't there with dozens of other chamber designs, and has some downsides. I beg to differ. The .223 Remington is a distinctly different cartridge from 5.56x45, commonly referred to as the 5.56x45 mm NATO. Using those particular terms interchangeably is neither correct or advisable. There is no question that 5.56 NATO is loaded to higher pressures than .223 Remington, and should only be used in a weapon chambered specifically for 5.56 NATO. http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2013/3/4/223-rem-vs-556x45-mm-nato-is-it-safe/ http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2013/3/4/223-remington-vs-556-whats-in-a-name/ |
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I beg to differ. The .223 Remington is a distinctly different cartridge from 5.56x45, commonly referred to as the 5.56x45 mm NATO. Using those particular terms interchangeably is neither correct or advisable. There is no question that 5.56 NATO is loaded to higher pressures than .223 Remington, and should only be used in a weapon chambered specifically for 5.56 NATO. http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2013/3/4/223-rem-vs-556x45-mm-nato-is-it-safe/ View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Please stop referring to the Wylde chamber as if it's some other cartridge. It's just one chamber design out of dozens for the 223 Remington / 5.56x45 cartridge. Never mentioned it as a round. I mentioned it as the barrel choice I'm looking at that gives me the option to shoot 2 rounds from One barrel. Please read before posting useless info. Thanks. It's not useless info, and your post is an example of why. There are not 2 different rounds to shoot from one barrel. The 223 Remington and the 5.56x45 are the same cartridge. The Wylde chamber doesn't give you any capability that isn't there with dozens of other chamber designs, and has some downsides. I beg to differ. The .223 Remington is a distinctly different cartridge from 5.56x45, commonly referred to as the 5.56x45 mm NATO. Using those particular terms interchangeably is neither correct or advisable. There is no question that 5.56 NATO is loaded to higher pressures than .223 Remington, and should only be used in a weapon chambered specifically for 5.56 NATO. http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2013/3/4/223-rem-vs-556x45-mm-nato-is-it-safe/ It is not a different cartridge. No one says a 9mm +P is a "distinctly different cartridge". No one says the 308 Winchester is a "distinctly different cartridge" than 7.62x51. No one obsesses over internet mythology about the minutia of chamber specifications for their 308 vs 7.62x51 rifles. http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/5-56-vs-223/ What is "chambered specifically for 5.56 NATO? That would be any of the dozens of chambers other than the 223 SAAMI chamber, which isn't even an issue for AR15s as nobody uses the SAAMI chamber. I'm continually baffled at how this whole 223/5.56 and the proto-messianic Wylde chamber line of thinking has taken over the AR15 world. In any event, back to the OP's comparison of two proto-messianic cartridges. |
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It is not a different cartridge. No one says a 9mm +P is a "distinctly different cartridge". No one says the 308 Winchester is a "distinctly different cartridge" than 7.62x51. No one obsesses over internet mythology about the minutia of chamber specifications for their 308 vs 7.62x51 rifles. View Quote Yet both .223 Remington and 5.56 NATO are separately packaged , labeled and sold as such. Plus P ammo is definitely sold with the distinction that it is to be fired in weapons rated for those pressures. Ignoring the differences can have severe consequences. What is "chambered specifically for 5.56 NATO? View Quote It means exactly that. From the cited link: "While the 5.56x45 mm chamber is slightly larger than the .223 Rem. chamber in just about every dimension, the primary difference is throat length, which can have a dramatic effect on pressure." That would be any of the dozens of chambers other than the 223 SAAMI chamber, which isn't even an issue for AR15s as nobody uses the SAAMI chamber. View Quote Oddly, the very first AR I built was chambered and stamped as 223 Remington. The barrel mgr specifically noted that 5.56 NATO was not recommended for use with it. 223 Remington SAAMI AR barrels are bought and sold every day, not to mention the plethora of .223 Remington bolt action rifles. Claims that "nobody uses the SAAMI chamber" are intellectually dishonest. I'm continually baffled at how this whole 223/5.56 and the proto-messianic Wylde chamber line of thinking has taken over the AR15 world. View Quote I'm pretty sure the Wylde chamber design was introduced as a compromise between .223 Remington and 5.56 NATO, in that the leade was longer than the SAAMI 223 Rem and shorter than 5.56 NATO. Proto-messianic? Interesting choice of words, but I've not personally heard anybody representing the Wylde as "God's gift" to the AR world. We will have to agree to disagree, 762. I see the distinctions, whereas you apparently do not. |
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I'm pretty sure the Wylde chamber design was introduced as a compromise between .223 Remington and 5.56 NATO, in that the leade was longer than the SAAMI 223 Rem and shorter than 5.56 NATO. Proto-messianic? Interesting choice of words, but I've not personally heard anybody representing the Wylde as "God's gift" to the AR world. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
I'm continually baffled at how this whole 223/5.56 and the proto-messianic Wylde chamber line of thinking has taken over the AR15 world. I'm pretty sure the Wylde chamber design was introduced as a compromise between .223 Remington and 5.56 NATO, in that the leade was longer than the SAAMI 223 Rem and shorter than 5.56 NATO. Proto-messianic? Interesting choice of words, but I've not personally heard anybody representing the Wylde as "God's gift" to the AR world. The Wylde chamber is not a compromise of anything. It's a chamber specifically designed for long range competition match shooters, to enable use of very long 80+gr OTM match bullets seated to long OALs for max velocity. Years ago Bill Wylde himself even posted on the forums (either here or another one I read, I can't remember) with that explanation. The Wylde has the same .224 diameter throat as the SAAMI design chamber, so potentially suffers some of the same potential adverse effects, namely, bullets sticking in the throat leading to difficult live round extraction and potential adverse effect on reliability. The pressure differences, which are discussed in hyperbolic yet hypothetical terms in the articles you linked, are much less pronounced to the point of near irrelevance as shown by actual testing in the article I linked. There are better choices in chambers for a general purpose AR15 rifle than the Wylde. If you're shooting a DCM Service Match rifle, by all means enjoy your Wylde chamber. |
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It's not useless info, and your post is an example of why. There are not 2 different rounds to shoot from one barrel. The 223 Remington and the 5.56x45 are the same cartridge. The Wylde chamber doesn't give you any capability that isn't there with dozens of other chamber designs, and has some downsides. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Please stop referring to the Wylde chamber as if it's some other cartridge. It's just one chamber design out of dozens for the 223 Remington / 5.56x45 cartridge. Never mentioned it as a round. I mentioned it as the barrel choice I'm looking at that gives me the option to shoot 2 rounds from One barrel. Please read before posting useless info. Thanks. It's not useless info, and your post is an example of why. There are not 2 different rounds to shoot from one barrel. The 223 Remington and the 5.56x45 are the same cartridge. The Wylde chamber doesn't give you any capability that isn't there with dozens of other chamber designs, and has some downsides. So again your posting useless information no one asked for. The 223 and 5.56 are in fact different rounds last time I checked ANY ammo supply chain. My whole point in looking at the Wylde chamber was to have the ability to shoot 2 DIFFERENT rounds without it being designed mainly just for one. Meaning I don't want a standard 5.56 barrel that sure I can shoot 223 out of but it isn't optimized. The Wylde gives me the best of both worlds. In the end it doesn't matter much as this upper is going to be 6.5 |
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So again your posting useless information no one asked for. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes It's very useful information, to correct misinformation/misconceptions. If you post wrong information, don't be surprised if someone corrects you. The 223 and 5.56 are in fact different rounds last time I checked ANY ammo supply chain. My whole point in looking at the Wylde chamber was to have the ability to shoot 2 DIFFERENT rounds without it being designed mainly just for one. Meaning I don't want a standard 5.56 barrel that sure I can shoot 223 out of but it isn't optimized. The Wylde gives me the best of both worlds. See avatar. All I can do, again, is say that is incorrect. In the end it doesn't matter much as this upper is going to be 6.5 Good luck. Grendel or LBC? Which bolt spec are you using? I don't know enough of the details of all the intricacies of 6.5 Grendel/LBC specs to be helpful, other than there are significant variables. I'm going to unsubscribe. I find it sad that there is so much misinformation about something as simple as the 5.56x45 cartridge on this website of all places. |
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Why is ammo sold as 223 and 5.56 then if they are both the exact same round? Why don't they call it 223 +p using your logic? The reason is simple. They are 2 different rounds. So please face palm all you want.
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