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I've read through this entire thread and I'm still confused. I'm late to the whole home defense with rifle thing. I've always had a handgun or a shotgun for HD but since moving to PA and having my options opened on ammunition for the sake of defense I've been trying to learn as much as I can.
Having said that, I have no .223/5.56 in a HD load and would like to add some. So given the fact that Gold Dots and Federal MSR and TAP are unavailable but both the PPU 55 grn SP and M193 seem to be available which should I purchase? Yes, I'm late and should have stacked deep but I never really put much thought into it. |
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Quoted: I've read through this entire thread and I'm still confused. I'm late to the whole home defense with rifle thing. I've always had a handgun or a shotgun for HD but since moving to PA and having my options opened on ammunition for the sake of defense I've been trying to learn as much as I can. Having said that, I have no .223/5.56 in a HD load and would like to add some. So given the fact that Gold Dots and Federal MSR and TAP are unavailable but both the PPU 55 grn SP and M193 seem to be available which should I purchase? Yes, I'm late and should have stacked deep but I never really put much thought into it. View Quote Gold Dots / Fusion are near the top for self defense, if you can find them. M193 is a great general purpose combat round but, out of the two, you'd be better off with PPU 55grain SP for actual home defense IMHO. |
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Quoted: Gold Dots / Fusion are near the top for self defense, if you can find them. M193 is a great general purpose combat round but, out of the two, you'd be better off with PPU 55grain SP for actual home defense IMHO. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I've read through this entire thread and I'm still confused. I'm late to the whole home defense with rifle thing. I've always had a handgun or a shotgun for HD but since moving to PA and having my options opened on ammunition for the sake of defense I've been trying to learn as much as I can. Having said that, I have no .223/5.56 in a HD load and would like to add some. So given the fact that Gold Dots and Federal MSR and TAP are unavailable but both the PPU 55 grn SP and M193 seem to be available which should I purchase? Yes, I'm late and should have stacked deep but I never really put much thought into it. Gold Dots / Fusion are near the top for self defense, if you can find them. M193 is a great general purpose combat round but, out of the two, you'd be better off with PPU 55grain SP for actual home defense IMHO. I really like Gold Dots it's what I use in my ccw and in my bedside gun. But they're definitely unobtanium right now. I'll pick up some of the PPU for now. Well shit...this is what I get for going outside and doing yard work. PPU is out of stock now. |
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Defense counselor, “Your Honor, the defense calls Officer Jones of the Pleasantville Public Safety Department.”
Defense counselor, “Office Jones, what ammunition does your department use in their AR-15 rifles?” Officer Jones, “We use Speer 62 grain Gold Dot ammunition.” Defense counselor, “Officer Jones, why does your department use that ammunition?” Officer Jones, “This ammunition performs very similarly to the ammunition used by the FBI, but it is less expensive. We can even substitute 62 grain Federal Fusion ammunition for the Gold Dot ammunition if the Gold Dot ammunition becomes difficult to acquire.” Defense counselor, “Officer Jones, has your department had any problems with this ammunition?” Officer Jones, “None. It has worked remarkably well for us and has saved lives; officers’ lives and the lives of citizens.” Defense counselor, “Officer Jones, have you personally ever experienced a problem that the prosecutor referred to as “over-penetration” with this ammunition?” Officer Jones, “Never.” Defense counselor, “Has any officer in your department experienced problems with “over-penetration” with this ammunition?” Officer Jones, “Not one.” Defense counselor, “No further questions Your Honor.” Judge, “Prosecutor, would you like to cross examine this witness?” Prosecutor, “No, Your Honor.” …. |
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Quoted: Defense counselor, “Your Honor, the defense calls Officer Jones of the Pleasantville Public Safety Department.” Defense counselor, “Office Jones, what ammunition does your department use in their AR-15 rifles?” Officer Jones, “We use Speer 62 grain Gold Dot ammunition.” Defense counselor, “Officer Jones, why does your department use that ammunition?” Officer Jones, “This ammunition performs very similarly to the ammunition used by the FBI, but it is less expensive. We can even substitute 62 grain Federal Fusion ammunition for the Gold Dot ammunition if the Gold Dot ammunition becomes difficult to acquire.” Defense counselor, “Officer Jones, has your department had any problems with this ammunition?” Officer Jones, “None. It has worked remarkably well for us and has saved lives; officers’ lives and the lives of citizens.” Defense counselor, “Officer Jones, have you personally ever experienced a problem that the prosecutor referred to as “over-penetration” with this ammunition?” Officer Jones, “Never.” Defense counselor, “Has any officer in your department experienced problems with “over-penetration” with this ammunition?” Officer Jones, “Not one.” Defense counselor, “No further questions Your Honor.” Judge, “Prosecutor, would you like to cross examine this witness?” Prosecutor, “No, Your Honor.” …. View Quote I did see that you mentioned Fusion earlier in the thread, I was having trouble locating that as well. But as luck would have it I found it and ordered a few hundred rounds of it. Thanks. Sorry for hijacking your thread, OP. |
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Quoted: I did see that you mentioned Fusion earlier in the thread, I was having trouble locating that as well. But as luck would have it I found it and ordered a few hundred rounds of it. Thanks. Sorry for hijacking your thread, OP. View Quote No need for apologies. I'm just here to learn and gather knowledge from those more experienced than I. Ask away. |
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Did anybody mention 75 gr TAP T2? How does it stand up? I hope it's good because I stacked a bunch of it.
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Quoted: Which is why the US Military is still using it. Oh wait . . . .... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: M193 is a great general purpose combat round Which is why the US Military is still using it. Oh wait . . . .... The military doesn't always do things logically, IE the new M7 rifle, ACU camo, and a million other bad or questionable decisions. They chose M193's successor round purely on its ability to penetrate a steel helemet at distance. Are you a green tip fan? The M855A1 they issue now though is a great round, prob the best 5.56 combat round ever made. Quoted: Did anybody mention 75 gr TAP T2? How does it stand up? I hope it's good because I stacked a bunch of it. It's a great round (if your barrel twist can stabalize it) that is very terminally effective on soft targets out to long distances. Downside is that out of all the 5.56 combat rounds fielded, it is prob the worst for barrier penetration and shooting through obstacles. At least M193 will punch through steel due to its velocity. |
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TAP T2 bullet is a shorter, fatter bullet than other 75 grain bullets. It is made specifically to stabilize out of a 1/9 barrel. I guess it is out if you are a 1/12 guy who only shoots M193.
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Quoted: TAP T2 bullet is a shorter, fatter bullet than other 75 grain bullets. It is made specifically to stabilize out of a 1/9 barrel. View Quote Incorrect. Years ago I asked Dave Emary why he redesigned the ogive for the T2 bullet. Here's what he said . . . “We made the ogive radius shorter, makes the ogive a little fatter, on the TAP load because testing showed it fed better in the M16/AR. The sharper pointed match bullet would occasionally hang up between the feed ramp cuts in the barrel sleeve on some guns.” ... |
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Quoted: Humans are not coyotes and a lightweight polymer tipped varmint bullet (the clue is in the name) is a poor choice for a defensive load. The 55 grain V-MAX doesn’t even make the minimum penetration depth in properly prepared and validated 10% bare ordnance gel, let alone after any type of intervening barrier, which can include the radius or humerus in the outstretched upper extremity of an armed attacker intent on killing you. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/hornady_55_grain_vmax_penetration_in_gel-3004065.jpg An armed attacker intent on causing you death or grave bodily harm isn’t going to just stand out in the open, squarely facing you and hold perfectly still with his arms at his side and allow you to put shot after shot into him, all the while not shooting back at you. While the average anteroposterior diameter of the upper thorax of an adult American male is approximately 9.5”, gun fights tend to be rather unpredictable by nature so they’re not always going to occur under the circumstances that Internet Commandos seems to assume that they will and you might just need more penetration than that 9.5”. If a bullet has to penetrate the aggressor’s right arm before continuing to travel into the thorax of the aggressor, (say from a right lateral shot while the bad guy is trying to exit a vehicle in order to kill you) you’re going to need, on average, 12” of penetration to perforate the heart; more penetration of you want to pass through the left ventricle. This is why the FBI’s penetration requirement is 12” to 18”. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/fbi_12_inch_penetration_flipped_002-1873116.jpg During the infamous 1986 FBI Miami Shootout, one of the opening shots in the gunfight fired by FBI Special Agent Dove hit the murderer Michael Platt in the right arm, continued into his thorax, but stopped just short of Platt’s heart; due to the inadequate penetration of the 9mm 115 grain Winchester SilverTip ammunition that was issued at the time. A deeper penetrating round would have ruptured Platt’s heart. This one shot ruptured the brachial blood vessels of Platt’s right arm and collapsed Platt’s right lung causing a hemopneumothorax with 1300 ml of blood loss into the right lung cavity. Even with these wounds, Platt was able to continue shooting at, hitting and causing severe wounds to additional FBI agents; all because of a bullet that failed to penetrate a minimum of 12”. From Dr GK Roberts: “Based on the LE agency and correctional facility shootings I have reviewed over the years, most lightweight 40-60 gr JHP and PT loads would not be ones I would willingly want to rely on to defend myself, my family, or innocent bystanders in a lethal force encounter.” …. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: After seeing what a 55gr. Vmax has done on a few coyotes, I would have ZERO issues with using it for home defense. I really don’t think it will bounce off a BG. Sometimes I believe we tend to overthink issues. Humans are not coyotes and a lightweight polymer tipped varmint bullet (the clue is in the name) is a poor choice for a defensive load. The 55 grain V-MAX doesn’t even make the minimum penetration depth in properly prepared and validated 10% bare ordnance gel, let alone after any type of intervening barrier, which can include the radius or humerus in the outstretched upper extremity of an armed attacker intent on killing you. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/hornady_55_grain_vmax_penetration_in_gel-3004065.jpg An armed attacker intent on causing you death or grave bodily harm isn’t going to just stand out in the open, squarely facing you and hold perfectly still with his arms at his side and allow you to put shot after shot into him, all the while not shooting back at you. While the average anteroposterior diameter of the upper thorax of an adult American male is approximately 9.5”, gun fights tend to be rather unpredictable by nature so they’re not always going to occur under the circumstances that Internet Commandos seems to assume that they will and you might just need more penetration than that 9.5”. If a bullet has to penetrate the aggressor’s right arm before continuing to travel into the thorax of the aggressor, (say from a right lateral shot while the bad guy is trying to exit a vehicle in order to kill you) you’re going to need, on average, 12” of penetration to perforate the heart; more penetration of you want to pass through the left ventricle. This is why the FBI’s penetration requirement is 12” to 18”. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/fbi_12_inch_penetration_flipped_002-1873116.jpg During the infamous 1986 FBI Miami Shootout, one of the opening shots in the gunfight fired by FBI Special Agent Dove hit the murderer Michael Platt in the right arm, continued into his thorax, but stopped just short of Platt’s heart; due to the inadequate penetration of the 9mm 115 grain Winchester SilverTip ammunition that was issued at the time. A deeper penetrating round would have ruptured Platt’s heart. This one shot ruptured the brachial blood vessels of Platt’s right arm and collapsed Platt’s right lung causing a hemopneumothorax with 1300 ml of blood loss into the right lung cavity. Even with these wounds, Platt was able to continue shooting at, hitting and causing severe wounds to additional FBI agents; all because of a bullet that failed to penetrate a minimum of 12”. From Dr GK Roberts: “Based on the LE agency and correctional facility shootings I have reviewed over the years, most lightweight 40-60 gr JHP and PT loads would not be ones I would willingly want to rely on to defend myself, my family, or innocent bystanders in a lethal force encounter.” …. I'm not saying to use 50gr vmax for self defense, but if Dove had shot Platt in the same location with it, Platt would have no longer had a working right arm to shoot back with. I think an argument can be made that the biggest advantage of a rifle caliber is a higher chance of ending a fight with a hit to the extremities, so the need to strike vitals after passing through the extremities at odd angles is less than with pistol calibers. That said, I still want that penetration, so I choose 77 tmk for home defense, and if I carried a rifle in my vehicle I would want a bullet with proven barrier performance like gold dot. |
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Quoted: I run 64gr Gold Dot. Wish I had stocked up on more when PSA was blowing it out at $120 for 200 rounds with a BCG. It works really well on deer. Once my stash dwindles I'll probably be buying Fusion MSR as it's the same bullet as the current 62gr GD and a little more available. My second choice would be Winchester RA556B but it's difficult to find. View Quote Yeah, this is my choice for intermediate barrier rounds. When I chrono'ed the various options, it tested a little faster than Fusion MSR, which was 2nd for MV. At HD distances though, Gold Dot @ ~200fps slower doesn't really matter. The RA556B averaged about 1.5" - 1.7" out of a .223 Wylde that will shoot under 0.5 MOA with FGMM (best 5 shot group with that particular gun was 0.33 MOA). |
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You break into my house to do me harm.....
You're getting a face full of 62 Gr. TBBC. out of a 14.5" 1/7 twist. |
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Quoted: Yeah, this is my choice for intermediate barrier rounds. When I chrono'ed the various options, it tested a little faster than Fusion MSR, which was 2nd for MV. At HD distances though, Gold Dot @ ~200fps slower doesn't really matter. The RA556B averaged about 1.5" - 1.7" out of a .223 Wylde that will shoot under 0.5 MOA with FGMM (best 5 shot group with that particular gun was 0.33 MOA). View Quote RA556B used to be my department duty load. But it was because of price and availability. Now , good luck finding any. It has been out of production for 1.5 years. And 1.5-1.7 MOA is what the .223 pressure Power Point style non bonded did for us. The RA556B was incredibly inaccurate running 2-3+ MOA. Then again, I don't have any barrels that shoot .33 MOA groups and average 0.5 MOA. The Federal Fusion MSR on the other hand is available and sub MOA accurate in a wide varietyof rifles. It expands better at lower velocities than the Ranger RA556B and thus, even though it is slower, the terminal effective range difference between the two is essentially a wash. |
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Quoted: Incorrect. Years ago I asked Dave Emary why he redesigned the ogive for the T2 bullet. Here's what he said . . . “We made the ogive radius shorter, makes the ogive a little fatter, on the TAP load because testing showed it fed better in the M16/AR. The sharper pointed match bullet would occasionally hang up between the feed ramp cuts in the barrel sleeve on some guns.” ... View Quote I stand corrected. How about this as a revision then... "TAP T2 bullet is a shorter, fatter bullet than other 75 grain bullets. It will stabilize out of a 1/9 barrel." Because... you know... it does. At least the ones I have shot. |
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Quoted: I stand corrected. How about this as a revision then... "TAP T2 bullet is a shorter, fatter bullet than other 75 grain bullets. It will stabilize out of a 1/9 barrel." Because... you know... it does. At least the ones I have shot. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Incorrect. Years ago I asked Dave Emary why he redesigned the ogive for the T2 bullet. Here's what he said . . . “We made the ogive radius shorter, makes the ogive a little fatter, on the TAP load because testing showed it fed better in the M16/AR. The sharper pointed match bullet would occasionally hang up between the feed ramp cuts in the barrel sleeve on some guns.” ... I stand corrected. How about this as a revision then... "TAP T2 bullet is a shorter, fatter bullet than other 75 grain bullets. It will stabilize out of a 1/9 barrel." Because... you know... it does. At least the ones I have shot. The Hornady T2 was indeed stable in a 1:9" twist barrel in the limited comparative testing that I did years ago . . . https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Hornady-5-56-TAP-T2-223-TAP-FPD-223-TAP-LE-223-Match-heavy-OTM-thread-/16-283506/?page=3#i2525312 . . . though it's only ~0.012" shorter than the Hornady T1 variants. .... |
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has anyone done any testing on the barnes 223 69gr BTJHP on gel? i got 500 rds of it for $15.99/box and the description specifically claimed it was meant for a defensive use. ive also gotten a few boxes of the frontier by hornady 68gr, and 200rds of aac 75gr 5.56 BTJHP with cannelure.
i have also seen their 77gr otm (not smk/tmk though) for 12.99/per, i wasnt sure if this would be a good choice. ive also stocked up a bit of the AAC 55gr Sabre blade black tip stuff after seeing Tools&targets gel tests with it. id love the 75gr stuff but can never catch it in stock, even when i get an email saying its available, its gone right away. ive also stocked up o fiochhi 55gr sp 223, though i dont know if that stuff is bonded or not, id wager on it not. got a few boxes of 60gr ammo inc vmax, wasnt sure how this stuff would be being a slightly larger option then the 55gr vmax stuff. |
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This may have already been answered somewhere, but I haven't found it.
What, if anything, is the difference between Speer's Gold Dot Rifle Personal Protection 223 Remington 55 Grain (SKU 24468) and their Gold Dot Duty Rifle 223 Rem 55 grain (SKU 24446)? Their stats (dimensions, velocities, energy) appear to be identical. Are they the same product with different SKUs for different markets/channels? I've also got the same question regarding the 62 and 75 grain civilian/LE products. Thanks in advance to any who help clear this up. |
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Quoted: This may have already been answered somewhere, but I haven't found it. What, if anything, is the difference between Speer's Gold Dot Rifle Personal Protection 223 Remington 55 Grain (SKU 24468) and their Gold Dot Duty Rifle 223 Rem 55 grain (SKU 24446)? Their stats (dimensions, velocities, energy) appear to be identical. Are they the same product with different SKUs for different markets/channels? I've also got the same question regarding the 62 and 75 grain civilian/LE products. Thanks in advance to any who help clear this up. View Quote The difference between the 2 loads might be as simple as " In addition, these loads feature flash suppressed propellants...." in the "LEO" oriented Duty Ammunition Hornady tends to do the same with their LEO oriented ammo. |
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I wish everyone would just drop the 40GR 55GR polymer tip BS. It is great for varmint but its a poor choice for SD. Everyone says well its traveling at such and such a speed and that's gonna F sh*t up. It will do some major damage no doubt. But at the same time it will probably fail to hit vitals. Not every SD shot will be taken square on with the vitals. Polymer tip wise I stick with a minimum of 73 grains and up for non barrier situations. When it comes to barrier penetration its Fusion, TBCC or Gold Dot.. TBCC might not be match or sub moa ammo, but if you do your job it will do the job it was meant to do. I also have a soft spot for 62 grain TSX, I wanted to like the 70 but I am unsure about reliability velocity wise past a certain point.
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Quoted: The difference between the 2 loads might be as simple as " In addition, these loads feature flash suppressed propellants...." in the "LEO" oriented Duty Ammunition ... View Quote Or maybe not? The product overview on Speer's web page for the Personal Protection product says, in part, "we offer the same performance [as the law enforcemnt ammo] for self-defense rifle applications." Further, the press release announcing the new PP line--which someone linked but I can't locate now--similarly made it sound like a clone. |
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I use similar loads along with Hornady Spire Points and American Eagle AR223 Varmint 50gr. With these rounds you get 6-11" of penetration and a 1,000 foot pounds energy dump.
Quoted: Hello all. As the title says, I'm looking for recommendations for good HD ammo for 5.56/223 and 300BLK. I have hornady subsonic 190gr for 300BLK and Fiocchi 50gr VMAX for 223. However, I'm wondering if this is sufficient for my purposes. My main priority is over penetration, which is why I chose what I chose for each caliber. For the builds I'm using 5.56/223 (12.5" Geissele upper with Griffin MK2 lower) 300BLK (8.5" Criterion 300BLK). Any recommendation/criticisms/etc. is welcome. Don't know a lot of the different bullet tech but been watching videos and reading. Thanks. View Quote |
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Has the 5.56 NATO 75 gr Interlock® HD SBR™ Hornady BLACK been mentioned?? My instructor uses it on boar. I've found the bullets and have been reloading a few rounds.
75 gr Interlock Black Test Detailed testing by Sage Dynamics through materials Sage Dynamics |
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Quoted: Has the 5.56 NATO 75 gr Interlock® HD SBR™ Hornady BLACK been mentioned?? My instructor uses it on boar. I've found the bullets and have been reloading a few rounds. 75 gr Interlock Black Test Detailed testing by Sage Dynamics through materials Sage Dynamics View Quote Where have you found them? As pulls? I can't find them on Hornady's website. I've heard that Hornday won't sell those particular bullets as components, but only as assembled cartridges, using their special magic propellants. |
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Quoted: First of all, every sane deer hunter knows that even the best 5.56 round is not adequate for shooting a deer. Yes it will kill one but it really is not very ethical. Second, to be blunt, humans die a lot easier than deer, Third when deer hunting you are not worried about a child in the next house 50 feet away. As mentioned, everything is a trade off. A quick expanding bullet that will give 10-12 inches of penetration is probably not a bad choice in a home defense situation, but I would agree that one with only 3-4 inches of penetration is insufficient. View Quote What aspect of this wound channel (impact at @ 100 yards from an 11.5" SBR) looks inadequate? Exit (deer in situ): Attached File Damage to internal organs: Attached File Attached File Pathway through deer, from pictured Right to pictured Left. Attached File Entrance, for scale: Attached File Exit, for scale: Attached File |
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Quoted: After seeing what a 55gr. Vmax has done on a few coyotes, I would have ZERO issues with using it for home defense. I really don’t think it will bounce off a BG. Sometimes I believe we tend to overthink issues. View Quote Big Coyotes are what 30-40lbs? Big criminal dudes are what 200-250lbs? |
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I recently handloaded some 64 grain Gold Dots and fired three 5-shot groups at 100 yards. All three groups were sub MOA.
Way more accurate than M193 or M855, and better performing. |
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Has anyon tried the hornady critical either defense/duty 73gr FTX on gel or meat targets? would you trust that stuff? got a few boxes last time i saw it but at $28/box id want to do some reseach before getting more, i dont have land to really do any kind of gel tests etc.
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Quoted: What aspect of this wound channel (impact at @ 100 yards from an 11.5" SBR) looks inadequate? Exit (deer in situ): https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/453733/Exit_jpg-3137198.JPG Damage to internal organs: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/453733/Lung2_-_Copy_jpg-3137199.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/453733/Lung_jpg-3137209.JPG Pathway through deer, from pictured Right to pictured Left. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/453733/R2L_jpg-3137200.JPG Entrance, for scale: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/453733/EntranceRIb2_jpg-3137205.JPG Exit, for scale: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/453733/ExitRib2_-_Copy_jpg-3137207.JPG View Quote What round did you use? Obviously worked well. I been using 55gr or 75gr gold dot depending on what I can get I tried 77gr TMK this year and was very impressed. |
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Quoted: Has anyon tried the hornady critical either defense/duty 73gr FTX on gel or meat targets? would you trust that stuff? got a few boxes last time i saw it but at $28/box id want to do some reseach before getting more, i dont have land to really do any kind of gel tests etc. View Quote I bought a bunch without doing my "due diligence." I have not shot it yet, but others have not had uniformly great experiences. I've found the following video gel tests: The Grey State: The Rounds Up: Hornady Critical Defense RIfle 55 Grain FTX Testing and Review (2019) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aSAoNyMqCM AR15.com: Hornady Hype? .223 Rem Hornady 73gr Critical Defense Gel Test (2019) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_mel-UQkFI AR15.com: You Asked For It! 73gr Critical Defense 16 Inch Gel Test (2019) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0zFJ-kcm_g Tools&Targets: AR-15 Critical Defense [73gr] vs Gold Dot! [62gr]...223 Ammo Ballistic Gel Test! (2023) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JKPkXqfuqI |
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This is 70gr TSX, at 74 impact, smaller animal, though.
Exit: Attached File Lung exit: Attached File Lung Entrance: Attached File Bullet path L to R in photo: Attached File This is another, larger deer, which I shot in the chest with the 70gr TSX round. Shown is the recovery of that bullet. Impact at 100m, from 11.5" SBR. Using The Barnes 70gr TSX On Game |
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Quoted: Mk318 mod 0 View Quote Thank you for sharing your data also saw your post in molons thread on MK318. When mod0 was on the market I was busy stacking gold dot so I missed out on that load. Have yet to even test out 70gr TSX in my rifles but have had good results with the 62gr. On a side note regarding the thread’s topic of HD ammo. For folks concerned about over penetration take a look at Federals 64gr JSP it has a good documented history as both a hunting and duty round and IS on Docs list. Find it funny that Vmax gets recommended over this round. |
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I feel like I should participate in this forum more often. Sheesh...
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For hunting, I prefer the Browntip. Far more accurate. In the livingroom, both work fine.
Attached File |
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Personally I keep 62gr federal fusion in my hd AR-15 mags. It tracks fairly decent with m855 so I can sight in with cheap bulk and shoot only a few RDS of the expensive stuff for final zero
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Quoted: I bought a bunch without doing my "due diligence." I have not shot it yet, but others have not had uniformly great experiences. I've found the following video gel tests: The Grey State: The Rounds Up: Hornady Critical Defense RIfle 55 Grain FTX Testing and Review (2019) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aSAoNyMqCM AR15.com: Hornady Hype? .223 Rem Hornady 73gr Critical Defense Gel Test (2019) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_mel-UQkFI AR15.com: You Asked For It! 73gr Critical Defense 16 Inch Gel Test (2019) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0zFJ-kcm_g Tools&Targets: AR-15 Critical Defense [73gr] vs Gold Dot! [62gr]...223 Ammo Ballistic Gel Test! (2023) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JKPkXqfuqI View Quote Thank you I will check those out |
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Quoted: Any data on Barnes 55 gr VorTX? View Quote The link is in the "Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo" FAQ tacked at the top of the page: https://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/Barnes/Barnes%20Gelatin%20Data%20for%20.223%20and%205.56.html |
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I have read a lot of ammo ballistic write ups from @molon
I wonder what self defense AR15 223/556 he chooses? |
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Quoted: I have read a lot of ammo ballistic write ups from @molon I wonder what self defense AR15 223/556 he chooses? View Quote It would be nice if there was a corresponding one stop, consistant methodology review of the terminal effects of each round. The info is mostly out there, but spread out over many sources and formats (more and more the dreaded videos), and it isn't all FBI tests in calibrated ballistic gel when you find it. |
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Quoted: Molon's information is top notch as far as it goes. Great info on accuracy, velocity, construction, etc. And while I am at it, props for text and pic format, as I personally hate having to watch a youtube video for actual information. It would be nice if there was a corresponding one stop, consistant methodology review of the terminal effects of each round. The info is mostly out there, but spread out over many sources and formats (more and more the dreaded videos), and it isn't all FBI tests in calibrated ballistic gel when you find it. View Quote Did you read the "Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo" tacked at the top of the page? I spent a loooooong time accumulating all of the data that went into it. |
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