I'll go back to the top 3 performing powders I used with the hiteck coated bullets and work up some loads from there and compare accuracy.

I would like to try some of the 700X I have (as I have about 5-6 pounds of it) but I have no idea where to even start with it.
I do not want to start too low and have a squib, but afraid to start too high for fear of being over pressure.

Nope, do not have any of that.
I have the following powders that could be used:

H110
W296
Enforcer
2400
No 9
HS-6
Blue dot
Unique
Longshot
Herco
700X
W231
Power pistol
True blue

Everything else I have are rifle powders.

Yea most of the 357 and 44 mag I load are actual magnum loads, this is my first venture into subsonic.

I will probably load a couple rounds of each, then chrono (just shoot into the berm), then adjust the load up/down until it get close to 1050-1075. Once I find that charge weight, then I will load 5-10 of that load and then shoot for groups. I will pick the best performers and then fine tune from there is needed.
Last time when I used quickload to try and find the charge weights for the velocity I wanted, I had to go back and add .5 to 1gr more powder to get them there. I wasted a lot of bullets doing that. I figured it was because of using bullets that quickload does not have, and doing subsonic. Usually quickload is pretty close to being spot on.
That is why I am going to shoot a couple at a time till I get close, then load several.
That will probably take a whole afternoon of running outside, shooting, then running back inside, loading a couple more, rinse and repeat. But I feel like it will waste the least amount of components.

Weather is not working in my favor right now though....

So work has let up just a little and I actually had yesterday (saturday) off.
I spent the morning doing some yard work and around the house things I needed to do, but then dedicated the afternoon to finding some loads.

I set up my chrono and rifle, then I picked 5 powders, used quickload to figure out a starting load, then loaded 2 shots, tested (just shot into the berm) then went back inside, adjusted the charge and retested until I hit somehting between 1050-1075.
The only one I did not have any starting data on was 700x. I ended up just deciding to start low, hope for no squib and go for it.
I started at 3gr and got 610fps. I then worked up, one round at a time until I found the right velocity.

I ended using the following powders:
Unique
HS6
Herco
True blue
700x

I actually got them all figured out in 24 rounds.
So I then loaded up 5 each of the powders and shot a group. Yea 5 rounds is not enough, but I figured it could help me weed out what ones to pay closer attention to.
I also chronoed them all. Posted velocity is the average of the 5 rounds fired.

Unique, 1085
HS6, 1071
Herco, 1075
True blue, 1083
700X 1070

The following picture goes as follows. Starting at the left is unique, hs6, herco, true blue, and 700x on the far right.



First thing you are going to say is, there are no holes in the far right target! Yes, I know!
I will jump right to that elephant. I have no clue what so ever where they went. First shot missed, 2nd shot missed. So then I aimed at the top edge of the paper, still missed. I aimed at the bottom edge and missed. I could not see where any of them went.
All others hit paper and were within a few clicks of the scope to get zeroed if I wanted. But with 700x, if it is that far off, then I guess it is out of the competition. Which sucks, as I was hoping for it to do ok as I have like 5+ pounds of it. Oh well.

Unique did ok. The one flier low and left was me, I felt my sandbag shift right as I pulled the trigger.
HS6 did really good. It only looks like 3 holes, but the 2 left holes are actually 2 bullets each hole (confirmed by looking closely and I can see the two pass throughs)
Herco was not as good. The shot at the bottom of the target to the right, was actually from the herco group. That was not me. Not sure what happened there.
True blue did not do as bad, but still not that great.

I think I am down to unique and HS6 for further testing.

However, LEAD!
Yep, I SILL got lead in the bore from these. Same as before, just in the first few inches past the chamber. But not as badly as the hitek coated bullets.
I was only able to find 2 bullets in the berm. One looked like it held up ok, but the other had exposed lead around it. The bottoms of the bullets (where the powder touches) looked fine and not burnt or melted.
I do not understand, as the bullets/powder coating passed the hammer test.
I also have no issues with jacketed or plated bullets.
I have checked the bore with a bore scope and it is not rough or pitted or any other issues, it looks great.

I think I am going to load up the remaining 50 and shoot them through my marlin 1894 with the same subsonic load of unique and hs6 and see if it leads that barrel.

Otherwise I am about to give up on cast/coated bullets and just buy a bulk box of hornady 300gr XTP bullets and load those instead.

You are wasting your time testing different powders. You have some kind of bullet malfunction going on, and no powder will fix that. The fact that you had the same problem with Hitek tells me the coating itself is not the problem. The chances of both commercial Hitek, and your own powdercoat bullets is slim but possible. Completely ignore powder testing. Just pick one and stick with it until you figure out your bullet issue.

Here are some possible causes.

#1 bullet undersized. Coating can mask SOME issue with fit, but it can't fix everything. You seem to be using .430" bullets which are seem to be too small for any 44 magnum rifle I've been able to find when doing research in another thread. You really need to slug your bore to know for sure, but I would definitely try .432". For whatever stupid reason there is a difference between rifle and pistol barrel specifications for 44 caliber.

#2 your brass is sizing your bullet down. This is a common problem and there can be more than one thing that causes it. Pull a few bullets that you loaded and measure them.

#3 you are scraping the coating off of the bullet during seating. This can be caused from a lack of chamfer, or an insufficient case belling. Another cause can be crimping, mostly crimping and seating combo dies. Seat and crimp separate.

#4 your barrel has some kind of issue that ruins the bullet. This is not as uncommon as you think. If your barrel does not have a throat at all, that can certainly cause the problem. There's not a lot you can do about this other than fix it. Lubed bullets can sometimes be more tolerant of this.

#5 it is also possible the coating is bad. The east test is to lube some bullets, and if they shoot good and clean, then you know the coating is the issue.

See post #37, then post #43.
These are bullets I cast myself and powder coated myself. I used powder coating I got from the guy on cast boolets, smoke something.

They passed the hammer test.
I flare the cases enough and am not shaving the coating off when seating.

I pulled my bore scope back out and checked the barrel.
Just as I remembered, it is a very smooth and well finished barrel. Way better internal finish than even some higher end guns I have seen.
The chamber, throat and leade all look perfect. A very smooth transition to rifling with no machining marks, steps, groves or any defects. The throat is a very smooth taper and not abrupt at all.
Nothing I can see would lead me to believe it would strip the coating off bullets and grab/hold lead.

Here is a picture of the two I managed to find in the berm, plus the two I did the hammer test on.
One of the shot ones looks fine, but the other is missing the coating from half the bullet.




I also took one and drove it in the barrel, chamber end, then back out and measured.
It measured .429 according to my caliper.

It can be tough to draw firm conclusions from bullets pulled from a berm since the berm damaged the bullets. That said, that bullet on the right had the coating fail completely. If your barrel really does have a .429" groove diameter, and your bullets really are .430", then gas cutting shouldn't be a problem. If you have an odd number of groove barrel, it can be tough to get an accurate reading, calipers alone are not good enough. There is a way to measure with a thin shim such as a strip of aluminum can.

You should still pull a few bullets to make sure your brass is not sizing down your bullets.

Can you try some bullets uncoated, but lubed? Even a quick homemade mix of 50/50 beeswax and olive oil will tell you all you need to know. If they shoot good lubed, then your coating is the problem. Even if it's only every few bullets with bad coating, once you have a lead fouled barrel, it's not going to shoot good. Uneven heating is a very common cause of coating problems with cheaper ovens.

I am using a RCBS die set.
Sizing die, then there is the expanding die and I have it adjusted to get the slight flare. Bullets seat easy, I have enough flare there is no chance it is scraping to coating off.
When I was young and still learning, I peeled the copper plating off some 45 auto bullets bullets before I learned about the proper amount of flare.

I took one of the bullets, seated it in a empty case, and then tried to pull it. However, no matter how tight I got my collet, it just would not grab the bullet enough to pull it. I think the collets only really work for jacketed bullets, but I have pulled plated bullets too without much issue.
I ended up drilling a hole in the bullet and threading in a wood screw, then using pliers with the reloading press to pull the bullet.
Coating still looked fine, none was scratched or removed, and it still measured .430

At this point I think I am done with cast/coated bullets of any type (bought or home made).
Finding time to cast them is hard, then I have to coat them, and then all the issues with leading in the barrels, and apparently the coating has to be treated like a fragile porcelain doll where if you do not do everything perfectly, it fails. The time and frustration spent is not worth the small saving in price.

I am going to stick with copper plated or jacketed bullets from here on out.  

I will still cast shotgun slugs, as those that I cast are sabot slugs and no lead touches the barrels.

It can be frustrating because so many view powder coating as the end all-be all for all bullet casting. It can do no harm, and it will perform miracles. This is simply not the case. It does have a greater learning curve, but it's usually not this tough. Once you figure out the coating process, powder coating is actually very strong. It does not need to be treated like it is fragile at all, the fact that yours are may be due to a problem in the coating process. It is not as simple as a lubed bullet.

If you don't want to fight with it, that's completely understandable. Is there any reason you do not want to try lubed bullets?

If you do get a good strong coating, then they are not fragile. One of the advantages of coatings is you can make mistakes and they still shoot. Bullet sizing is less important, but it still matters.

I can send you some 44 caliber bullets if you would like to try some that I know work.

You only need a Lyman M die, or NOE expanding plug if your bullet is being sized down.

This is really only an issue with softer lead or a sizing die that is sizing your brass down way too much.

If you are using harder lead, it's usually not needed, and can cause more problems than it solves.

I used to use the NOE plugs a lot, and have a decent collection of sizes, but they have drawbacks. For the vast majority of my loading I use the regular Lee expander plugs. They are not just taper plugs, they do expand too, just for a shorter section than the NOE plugs.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the issue here is an inconsistent coating. Some bullets might be good, but some might have a coating that either isn't cured, or is over cooked. This is more common than many reaslize. You really do need a decent oven to coat bullets. Those $50 toaster ovens just don't cut it. You definitely want one with convection. Very few of them are exact on the temperature they say. A PID controller really helps.

Sorry, not dumping more money to buy special dies, and a special high end oven just to save a few pennies on bullets.
Casting a coating bullets is turning out to be WAY too much wasted time and money, when I can just buy plated bullets for around 15 cents each, or real jacketed for about twice that.
I thought it sounded fun, but it is just a chore and frustrating to have t scrub led out of my barrel.

I just ordered a 500 box of hornady 300gr XTP's last night, and are about to order another 500-1000 of the 240gr plated, probably tonight. X-treme bullets is currently having a fathers day sale with 10% off and free shipping.


It might still be the gun. There might be something about this barrel that does not jive with lead bullets, coated or not, even though the bore looks perfect.
Like I said, I am going to load up these last 50 at the same subsonic velocities and shoot them through my marlin 1894 and see if I get lead in it as well.
If I do not, then it is the ruger barrel that is the issue. But if I do, then I know it is the bullets.

That can really be frustrating. Coating bullets is not hard, but it does have the highest barrier to entry. There are some, especially over on castboolits who actually get mad if you insist that coating is not as simple or easy as lube for some reason. I don't know why some act that way, it only does a disservice to those learning about casting.

There will always be that guy who seems to be having good luck swirling some bullets in a cup, dumping them on some pan, and putting them in a $10 oven he got at a garage sale. Then again there's lots of guys who could care less
how they shoot other than their handgun hits steel at 15 yards. The truth of the matter is that coating bullets needs to be a much more controlled process. You can certainly mess it up to where the coating doesn't work. It doesn't matter if you are using Hitek or Powder coat, if your oven does not distribute heat evenly, it's never going to work. You don't need a fancy oven, it just has to be an oven better than those made to toast garlic bread. The shake n bake method does work, it's just not as controlled, but for a 44 mag lever gun it should be ok. You just have to be careful how you do it though. If you handle your bullets at all after casting it can cause problems. Sizing before coating can introduce variables. Handling bullets can cause variables. Even touching them without rubber gloves can put oil on them. Any time you touch them you could be getting oils or anything on those bullets.

Once you figure out your process though, what you end up with is a coating that is tough, it should handle more velocity than a berrys plated bullet. They can still be gas cut if the bullets are undersized. The coating should not scrape off easily.

Lube by comparison you can't really mess up. As long as its on there it will do the job. The more you ask of your bullet, the better the lube you need, but for subsonic 44 mag, anything will work. You could even tumble lube, which is the easiest method of anything. You just put bullets in a container with a little lube such as White Label Lube Deluxe Xlox, and swirl them around. Put them on something like tinfoil to dry for a day, or if you really want them fast, but them in an oven at low temp like 170F and they dry really quick. Give them 2 or 3 coatings. It's stupidly simple.

I always wear nitrile gloves when casting, just to help protect myself from as much lead exposure as I can. I also wear them when reloading and cleaning my guns. Keeps lead off my hands as well as cleaning solvents and oils. Plus it keeps my hands off my guns and ammo so I do not get rusty finger prints (or tarnished brass/copper on the ammo).
I never touch a bullet or loaded round bare handed unless I am loading them into a magazine to shoot right away.

So the bullets went right from being cast, onto a metal tray to cool, then into a clean plastic container for storage for a couple days until I did the coating.
I used the plastic tubs with the recycle 5 on it, and also added some of the black airsoft bb's. I picked them out of the tubs with some large fine tip tweezers and picked them up in the center groove, so as to not try and disturb the coating. I stood them all upright as you can see in the picture I posted.
The oven is a thrift store used one I got on sale day for like $7. It has a heating element on the top and bottom and to my untrained hand, feels evenly hot. But who knows.
Who knows if the temp on the dial even matches with actual real temperature. I could see if I could find a way to measure the inside temp, will have to dig around.
I did size after I coated them.

I do not like lube because of the mess it makes and leaves everywhere.
I clean up enough lube from my guns and hands when shooting 22lr. I do not want to have to deal with it on centerfire.

I loaded the last 50 I had cast and will try them out in my marlin 1894. I know based on the bore scope, it has a much rougher internal finish in the barrel than the ruger.
I loaded 25 of the load of HS6, and the other 25 with the load of unique, both at the subsonic velocity.
So if it leads the barrel, I know it was the bullets/coating. If it does not, then I know the ruger just does not like  non jacketed bullets.

That's a good plan. It sounds like you already have a decent process, and if you really do have coating issues, it's probably that oven. With no convection, and no way to know the actual temperature, you are almost certainly not getting the results you need. I bought two cheap ovens before I just went for the real thing. Neither is accurate, over 50F off from the dial, and that temperature fluctuates. Even when I run my PID on them, there's no way for the heat to evenly distribute.

It's completely understandable if you would rather just shoot jacketed or copper plated bullets, but if you ever want to get better results with coating, a good oven is the next step.

Well, I had a eventful weekend. Looks like a new contender has entered the competition.
Was at my local gun store and they had just taken a henry model x in 44 mag in on trade a couple days ago.
Well long story short I brought it home. It looks pretty much brand new. Got it for $765.
I get it home, give it a clean and lube. I check the barrel with the bore scope to make sure it is clean and lead free (since I had no idea what the previous owner shot out of it). No lead, but it does have a kinda rough looking bore. Not reamer marks like the marlin, but more of a rough sand blasted type of appearance (but not from rust or corrosion).

I get it and the marlin out and try them.
First, before trying the 300gr coated lead, I loaded 20 or so of the x-treme plated 240gr with some HS6 (subsonic).
I tried them from the henry at 50 yards and was pretty happy with it. I am a pretty poor shot with open sights, so keep that in mind.



I then tried the last few with my hybrid 46 attached. It pretty much covered the sights, you can just barely see the top of the front sight over it. So looks like a optic will be in the future.



I then took the can back off so I could see my sights and tried out the coated 300gr.
I fired 5 shots of the unique load and I noticed a strange whirring noise. I go look, and the bullets are keyholing.
I tried the HS6 load and they did not keyhole, but accuracy sucked.
I then tried my marlin 1894 and it pretty much mimicked the henry. Keyhole the unique load, and inaccurate HS6 load.
Strange how the ruger had no problem with either one of these loads, but the henry and marlin keyhole.
I shot the rest of them split between the two just to get rid of them.

Cleaning time came and both had lead. The henry had the most and it was a pain to scrub out. The marlin had a good bit too, but was a little easier to clean out than the henry.

So I am going to try a few loads with the henry using the x-treme plated 240gr and see where I get.
Then I will try the 300gr XTP's. I will only load 5-10 of those to see if they are going to tumble or not.
I will probably get me a scope rail for it and get either a red dot or a small scope, since the suppressor blocks the sights. I have not decided on scope or dot as of yet.

Now that I have it, I am on the fence on threading the ruger. I have always had a tiny bit of hesitation about doing it once I got it, even though I bought it with the intended purpose of threading it for a suppressor host.
But the thing is in very nice condition and all original, made in 1997. I may just leave it unaltered and work up a full power load for it.

Last weekend I loaded a few 300gr with unique and HS6. No tumbling with them thankfully.
I used the same load I had come up with using the ruger. But velocities were much different, so I had to start over and load a couple at a time until I got a load that was between 1000-1075.
I just loaded a couple at a time and shot into the berm past my chrono.

Once I got me some loads, I loaded up some of each.
I loaded 25 of the 240gr x-treme plated, and 25 of the hornady 300gr xtp.
I then split it with 12 of unique and 12 of hs-6 of each of those.

I picked up a scope base for the henry and I found a 1.5-4.5 power compact scope I had laying around. It is not clear, is beat up, and not powerful, but it works.
Since I had today off, I decided to give it a try. I shot all 50 rounds and did all the accuracy testing with the suppressor mounted.

To save a lot of typing, basically HS6 did better than unique with both bullets.
I also found that HS6 and 300gr xtp's out of this henry at subsonic velocity is a great performer.
Average velocity for the 12 rounds I fired was 1038fps and I got the best group I have gotten out of a 44 mag to date.
The flier at the bottom was me, I felt the sand bag shift right as I pulled the trigger.




Ignore the group being to the left, I just did a quick and dirt zero just to get it on paper and was not worried about group placement, as I was group size.
I am not keeping this scope on it, so I saw no point to getting it perfectly zeroed.

So this is it, I'm done. 10.5gr of HS6 under a 300gr xtp from this henry is what I am going to stick with. I am perfectly happy with that group and do not see the need to take it any further. Sound was good, I shot all 50 with no hearing protection and they were all perfectly hearing safe. The best part, no lead in my barrel, it cleaned easily.
I do not ever see myself ever fooling around with lead and coated bullets ever again. They have been a failure in everything I have tried to use them in.

Now I have still not decided if I want to do a red dot or a scope. I will need to do one or the other as the suppressor blocks the open sights.
While I like the accuracy and better view using a scope, it does make a lever gun a little top heavy.
I have a couple 20% off codes for bushnell, so I may order a 3-9 scope and a red dot and see which one I like best.

The ruger 77/44, I have decided to not have it threaded and leaving it all original.
I will start working on a normal/full power 44 mag load for it. I will test the normal magnum powders and see which one does best (H110, W296, 2400, No9, enforcer, etc...)

I think interest in this thread has about died off, but I did get a chance to test some full power loads in the Ruger 77/44.

I shot 10 rounds each of 5 different powders. 50 yards from the bench. 240gr x-treme plated fmj-fp.
The two best performers were AA No 9 and ramshot enforcer.

2400 got 1619fps and roughly a 4in group
W296 got 1745 fps and roughly a 3in group
H110 got 1724 fps and roughly a 2.5in group
No9 got 1536 fps and roughly 2in group
Enforcer got 1610 fps and roughly a 1.5in group




I will load up 25 of the enforcer and 25 No 9 and compare and then pick which one I like the best.


My henry model X, I ended up buying a bushnell TRS-125 red dot.
I got it mounted but did not have time to zero it in yet. I will see how I like it or if I prefer a scope. I will zero it in with the suppressor attached.

Got a break in the weather and got the red dot sighted in with the can mounted.
I did not get to try it with the can removed to see if the POI changes any, but it does not really matter, as I will only be shooting this with the suppressor with this load.
(dedicated suppressor host).

I did take some shots at 100 yards at a 8in steel plate without doing any adjustment to the sight and still hit the plate every time. I even took a couple pot shots at 135 yards at a silhouette plate and rang it 2 out of 3 shots.



5 shots at 50 yards with the red dot. I am happy with it.

I had my 45LC Rossi threaded… Found that the slower burning powders (“magnum powders”) resulted a ton of “sandblasting” of my face (unburnt powder + back pressure = bad).

I then tried Trail Boss and it was a pleasant quiet load. I didn’t measure velocity in those loads but few if any broke sound barrier.

I almost even tried my black powder rounds but decided it might be too messy especially with the back pressure.

After all that, I realized I just turned my powerful 45LC rifle into a slightly heavier 45acp. Regretted spending the money on the threading.

At the time, I was deciding if I should thread the 45LC, 44-40 or a 30-30 lever. Either of the other two would have been much better candidates. Both the others probably seal into the chamber better (especially the 44-40 with that thin case neck).

Anyway, I wish you luck with the 44 magnum. Interested if you find enjoyment in it and what you settle on. Years ago during a major powder shortage, we ran Bullseye in the 44 magnum. Total mouse fart load. It would definitely meet your needs with almost any bullet weight. Friend shot them in his Henry and S&W revolver. He was happy when we found some Blue Dot. It’s a more middle velocity powder. Don’t think it would meet your needs though.

Anyway, try Bullseye or Trail Boss or similar powder. Maybe WST? Pretty fast powder if you can find load.

Great thread.

I dont recall if i posted about it in reloading forums but maybe in the lever forum.

I bought a 44 henry last year it keyholes lead at supersonic velocities too.

I slowed it down to 1050 with hp 38  and it shoots lead fine.

Acuuracy with xtp’s just awesome. Supersonic or subsonic.

Im running a primary arms 3x prism sight and a check riser so it doesn’t look pretty bur its rediculously functional.

Managed to take a spike late in season with the 240 xtp its a performer.

Think ive dropped 3-4 pigs with it now too.

One of my favorite guns now zero recoil basically and hits animals like a hammer.

Very nice OP.  Thanks for all the work you’ve put into this.  I’ve also struggled with lead in 44 lever guns.  The barrel specifications are apparently different between revolvers and rifles for 44 magnum.  My Henry’s will shoot jacketed great but lead is just “ok”.  I haven’t tried plated yet.

I also have a Henry Model X in 357 and it shoots 158 grain coated SWC’s perfectly.  Full power 38 specials stay subsonic and shoot great with a can.  My 44’s are a classic and an all weather.  Haven’t ventured into threaded 44 territory yet.

Well i’m giving up on lead in my henry 44.

I probably hit 200 rounds and my gun started having 10” poi shifts.

No keyholing this time just went from stacking rounds to wild poi shifts.

Spent 4 hrs cleaning not my idea of fun.

I’m just going to stick with xtps and see what hapens next.

I feel your pain.
If you want a decent bullet that wont break the bank, try the x-treme plated bullet.
However they are simple FMJ-FP, so not as ideal for hunting as soft point or hollow point, if that is what you are using your gun for.
But just plain plinking, they are great.

I probably will in the future im just to aggravated with it now.

I took the scope off and double checked / re loctited all that just to be positive.

If it doesn’t stay shooting this time with xtp’s only its going back to henry.