User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 9/4/2024 11:09:07 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rktpwrd: Not sure I have the pictures linked correctly, sorry if the thumbnail preview does not work. I've just been a lurker for years.  https://i.ibb.co/VxgDHFy/Holed-Win-41.jpg https://i.ibb.co/5jPBJsV/2-cracked-holed-WIN-no-41-primers.jpg https://i.ibb.co/wQNNtFG/FN-36012-BOLT-PITTED.jpg https://i.ibb.co/T2BNJMW/FN-BOLT.jpg When you get past 50 posts, the restrictions will end. Pics will post normally, post length no longer restricted. Bad actors with new accounts posting gay porn in the past, made this change necessary. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/4/2024 11:14:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Strikefirst]
[#2]
How can they get away with this without a recall?
How is there ammunition made with these not blowing and being recalled? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/4/2024 11:18:36 AM EDT
[#3]
I had the exact same thing happen with Winchester primers about 8 years ago. They bought back the primers I had not loaded yet and also paid for a bolt replacement on my Rem 700.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/4/2024 11:24:51 AM EDT
[#4]
So if I load 100 of these, will that be sufficient to find any defects?
|
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 9/4/2024 4:14:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Strikefirst: So if I load 100 of these, will that be sufficient to find any defects? If the failure rate is 1%, the probability of seeing one defect in 100 samples is only 63%. That is a good chance of seeing bad behavior but it is not a sure thing. If the sample size were higher, or the defect rate were higher, you'd have an even better chance of seeing the problem. Having said all that, if the global defect rate is as high as the OP experienced (5/50 = 10%), then 100 samples is more than enough to see the problem (P=0.999). Even 50 would do it (P=0.995). The thing is, the defects may not be as prevalent as OP experienced, defect could be related to the load OP used, etc. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/4/2024 6:03:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Strikefirst]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: If the failure rate is 1%, the probability of seeing one defect in 100 samples is only 63%. That is a good chance of seeing bad behavior but it is not a sure thing. If the sample size were higher, or the defect rate were higher, you'd have an even better chance of seeing the problem. Having said all that, if the global defect rate is as high as the OP experienced (5/50 = 10%), then 100 samples is more than enough to see the problem (P=0.999). Even 50 would do it (P=0.995). The thing is, the defects may not be as prevalent as OP experienced, defect could be related to the load OP used, etc. I was afraid of that. I knew that but needed to hear it from someone else. |
|
|
|
MN, USA
|
Posted: 9/4/2024 8:19:13 PM EDT
[#7]
I shot some test loads with these primers.
Winchester #41 lot # WLC23E002-734 26 GR of virgin WC844 62 GR Hornady FMJ 2.230 oal with light crimp Averaged 3035 fps with an 18 inch criterion barrel ES - 45 SD - 15 No marks on the bolt face. Or obvious signs on the primers or brass. Is it certain lot numbers that are problematic? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/4/2024 10:11:40 PM EDT
[#8]
Sounds like we need to make a list of bad ones
|
|
|
|
WI, USA
|
Posted: 9/5/2024 2:48:20 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dryflash3: Welcome to Arfcom and the Reloading forum. When you get past 50 posts, the restrictions will end. Pics will post normally, post length no longer restricted. Bad actors with new accounts posting gay porn in the past, made this change necessary. Thank you. Makes sense, and sadly doesn't surprise me. |
|
|
WI, USA
|
Posted: 9/5/2024 2:48:55 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Beater9C1: I shot some test loads with these primers. Winchester #41 lot # WLC23E002-734 26 GR of virgin WC844 62 GR Hornady FMJ 2.230 oal with light crimp Averaged 3035 fps with an 18 inch criterion barrel ES - 45 SD - 15 No marks on the bolt face. Or obvious signs on the primers or brass. Is it certain lot numbers that are problematic? You might have read a few posts above already, but just a caution if you value the bolt in your rifle. That's the same Lot# that I have with 2 out of 100 that cracked and holed. Was working well for me also until about round #37 and #65 that had issues. It appears that some lots, or random portions in those certain lots that have been posted here are worse than others. It was random for me, if I loaded up 1900 more it may be my luck that there were only 2 bad ones in the first tray? Or that might be the start of many more primer failures, really don't know without loading them and firing them off. As much as I like destructive testing, especially with range time, I'll pass on testing any more of these primers. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/5/2024 2:57:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Blowout]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jvm: Sounds like we need to make a list of bad ones WLC 23E002 - 725; 727; 732; 734; 738; 740 I just happen to have lots 725; 734 bought from Basspro early this year. ETA: Lot 738 added to list 9/11/24 per post #21 below |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/5/2024 12:50:36 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blowout: Below are lots with the problem identified in this thread. WLC 23E002 - 725; 727; 732; 734; 740 I just happen to have lots 725; 734 bought from Basspro early this year. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blowout: Originally Posted By jvm: Sounds like we need to make a list of bad ones WLC 23E002 - 725; 727; 732; 734; 740 I just happen to have lots 725; 734 bought from Basspro early this year. Which is why Bass Pro was dumping them cheap, I guess. I stacked deep, so I'm in the same boat, FWIW. |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 9/5/2024 3:00:40 PM EDT
[#13]
Has anyone contacted Winchester?
Has anyone contacted their retail supplier? What was the response? |
|
|
KS, USA
|
Posted: 9/5/2024 4:29:35 PM EDT
[#14]
Tested 50 more of these in an AR & had 3 more failures, same lot #WLC23E002-727. Primers looked fine other than fracture/hole in the primer.
So far the failure rate in this lot appears to be around 5% |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 11:31:36 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol: Winchester primers did the same thing when they switch from nickel plated to copper primers over twenty years ago. What is old, is new again... Been there done that... |
|
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 9/8/2024 3:13:17 PM EDT
[#16]
Anyone know if Winchester wLR has this same issue as of late? My search said it was an issue 5-10 years ago.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/8/2024 3:56:22 PM EDT
[#17]
Well that's great. I read this thread when it first came out but didn't have any that ended in 740. I'm in the middle of priming and have loaded up 500 or so. Took a break and come find this thread. I've been loading 734.
 I |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/8/2024 8:10:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Eight_Ring]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Strikefirst: How can they get away with this without a recall? How is there ammunition made with these not blowing and being recalled? Around the same time Bass Pro/Cabelas began heavily discounting #41's I recall a Winchester rebate of 25%, max of $100, which brought XM193 down to about $289/K. Coincidence? Maybe. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/9/2024 2:42:39 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blowout: Below are lots with the problem identified in this thread. WLC 23E002 - 725; 727; 732; 734; 740 I just happen to have lots 725; 734 bought from Basspro early this year. And I have 4 of those 5 listed lot numbers! Plus 2 bricks came with only 900 primers inside! Not too impressed. Winchester needs to do a recall it sure looks like at this point. If I only had a couple bricks I would just see if they can tolerate .300 BLK sub loads, but I have a bunch though! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2024 8:24:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: carcrazysammy]
[#20]
Picked these up at the range last weekend. Factory fresh ammo.
 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/11/2024 1:42:20 PM EDT
[#21]
I was going to load some up but on a Reddit thread with H335 55 and 62 gr "well below book max" my lot number did the same thing.
Report is a smaller blowout than the higher loads. Lot #WLC23F002-738 |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/11/2024 1:55:26 PM EDT
[#22]
I guess I'll have to check mine.
|
|
|
|
MN, USA
|
Posted: 9/14/2024 7:20:01 PM EDT
[#23]
I've been working with lot 732 on and off over the last year with no issues so far.
Used them for quite a bit of load development with 75gr loads with AA-2520, and bulk WC-844 in 62gr I am however checking this thread frequently for new Intel. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/14/2024 8:42:01 PM EDT
[#24]
just my luck, loaded about 2000 rounds with these, guess I'll throw a spare PSA bolt in my gun and send it
 Attached File |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/20/2024 10:16:24 AM EDT
[#25]
I loaded some lot number 692 to test.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/20/2024 2:58:22 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Romano316: I loaded some lot number 692 to test. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/20/2024 4:33:02 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blowout: Take a pic of your bolt face before you drop the hammer... just in case you need to send proof of the issue to Winchester. @Blowout Excellent recommendation, thank you. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/20/2024 9:57:08 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By carcrazysammy: Picked these up at the range last weekend. Factory fresh ammo. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/109231/1000006320-3318808.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/109231/1000006331-3319784.jpg Those all could be indicative of improper firing pin protrusion, or a badly shaped firing pin. Not the same kind of failure seen in these lots of primers. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2024 6:33:54 PM EDT
[#29]
Well, I rolled the dice and now have a slightly pitted bolt face.
Lot# WLC23E002-732. Reached out to winchester customer service though their portal, will see what happens. |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 9/21/2024 7:43:13 PM EDT
[#30]
Please do report back on what they say and what the process is.
I'm really not interested in damaging my rifles shooting these. I'm a bit surprised there is no lot acceptance testing on primers. It would be easy to catch a 10% defect rate, only a small sample is required and a quick visual inspection tells you whether you passed or failed. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2024 8:44:35 PM EDT
[#31]
Well I finally was able to submit a product support claim on Winchester's website after trying for a week and getting a server error.
I'll update here if they try to reach out to me. GlockWrench has the same lot number as my failures. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2024 11:47:14 PM EDT
[#32]
I mean, the rifle will still function with the slightly pitted bolt face. It looks like ass but it will work.
At least on an AR pattern rifle the bolt is easily replaced. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: Please do report back on what they say and what the process is. I'm really not interested in damaging my rifles shooting these. I'm a bit surprised there is no lot acceptance testing on primers. It would be easy to catch a 10% defect rate, only a small sample is required and a quick visual inspection tells you whether you passed or failed. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: Yesterday 8:58:12 PM EDT
[#33]
Sent ~200 of these down range with no adverse findings but I don't trust them.
24g tac 75g HNDY HPBT LC 1x fired |
|
|
|
|
Posted: Today 12:00:55 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DKlic6: Sent ~200 of these down range with no adverse findings but I don't trust them. 24g tac 75g HNDY HPBT LC 1x fired What lot number? |
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
.jpg)
