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Quoted: There is a difference between how Tolkien described the protagonists in his books and how they were later portrayed in other media. While Tolkien portrayed Orks and other evil races as being dark, how many light coloured monsters exist in any fiction or lore? There were dark skinned races considered ‘evil’ in his books, and there were other races that were not well described in terms of skin tone. Throw in LOTR was written between 1938-1948; different period. View Quote JFC dude If orcs remind you of black people maybe you are the racist. |
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I'm going to make an Icewind Dale movie and cast Chris Pratt as Drizzt.
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He thinks that character is NICE?!? |
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"'Rings of Power' a smash hit", says Amazon while censoring reviews | MEitM #296 Here's the specific link to where they discuss viewer numbers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J14yJz2GxRI&t=2422s ETA: Valliant renegade's take and he discusses the viewer numbers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J14yJz2GxRI&t=4307s Apparently we get to see the neilsen ratings in 3-4 weeks after the show. So we will hopefully be able to get an idea about how badly they're lying about the counts. In short: the trades lie all the time, and they use so many dirty tricks to bloat numbers you can't trust them. The 25mil views number is going to need verification from sources and by means we can trust, otherwise, it's no better than people saying that the jackson lotr flicks didn't make a profit. If you haven't heard about that ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting Peter Jackson, director of The Lord of the Rings (2001-03), and his studio Wingnut Films, brought a lawsuit in 2007 against New Line Cinema after an audit. Jackson stated this is regarding "certain accounting practices". In response, New Line stated that their rights to a film of The Hobbit were time-limited, and since Jackson would not work with them again until the suit was settled, he would not be asked to direct The Hobbit, as had been anticipated.[21] Fifteen actors sued New Line Cinema, claiming that they have never received their 5% of revenue from merchandise sold in relation to the movie, which contained their likenesses.[22] Similarly, the Tolkien estate sued New Line, claiming that their contract entitled them to 7.5% of the gross receipts of the $6 billion hit.[23] According to New Line's accounts, the trilogy made "horrendous losses" and no profit at all.[24] https://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/hollywood-accounting.htm The numbers are laughable. How is it possible, for example, that "Return of the Jedi"is unprofitable? The movie ranks among the top 20 biggest blockbusters of all time and has earned more than $500 million on a $32 million budget — but, according to Hollywood accounting, it's still in the red [source: Rowles]. Of course the movie made and continues to make money for the studio. But the notion that it's unprofitable is all part of the system. Entertainment studios tell a story about costs that don't really exist to funnel any profits back their way. In the end, they get away with it. Despite some high-profile cases challenging Hollywood accounting, most net profit participants never receive any profits [source: Abelson]. Yet "net points" continue to be given freely by the studios. The next pages will examine how Hollywood accounting works, the types of movies affected — and why the system is likely to persist. For those poor souls that think hollywood won't apply this to the viewership numbers on streaming services ... I have this ring to sell you cheap, totally no baggage in owning it. |
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Quoted: JFC dude If orcs remind you of black people maybe you are the racist. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: There is a difference between how Tolkien described the protagonists in his books and how they were later portrayed in other media. While Tolkien portrayed Orks and other evil races as being dark, how many light coloured monsters exist in any fiction or lore? There were dark skinned races considered ‘evil’ in his books, and there were other races that were not well described in terms of skin tone. Throw in LOTR was written between 1938-1948; different period. JFC dude If orcs remind you of black people maybe you are the racist. It seems many of the "REEEEE! ANYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME IS RACIST! REEEEE!" types are. |
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What bugs me about this, and the new GOT series, isn't the race of that actors. It's the context.
In our own, real world's history, people from different places look different, and people from the same places look the same. It's only really in the last couple of hundred years when ocean going ships and later, trains, automobiles and air travel went mainstream that we start to see racially diverse populations, and even then, only really in modern western countries to any significan degree. So when we are trying to watch a show set in a fantasy world where the predominant mode of transportation is the horse, it's really hard to believe that the kind of modern, western, immigration fueled diversity existed prior tonthe adoption of modern transportation. And further, were dwarves, elves and men in Middle Earth races, or species? I think Tolkien referred to them as races. If the dwarves, elves, etc were races, then you'd expect them to be homogeneous (literally). He did describe the men of Gondor and Rohan differently, as would be the case in lands separated by distance at a time when transportation and trade were limited to horses and navigable waterways. So if you're going to have a pre-industrial fantasy world with black, white, brown, etc people in it, it would make good story telling sense to have all the people from one kingdom or region share genetic attributes in common, since their mating partners would necessarily all come from the same genetic pool. When we see black dwarves and white dwarves, it raises questions in your subconscious that make it hard to watch. You might wonder, they are both dwarves. Yet they look like they are from different continents based on their racial characteristics. So when writing a new pre-industrial fantasy series, for future reference, writes should strive to cast all black dwarves, or all Asian dwarves, or all white dwarves, or all middle eastern dwarves, or elves, or men, so that it is believable. The trouble with doing this in middle earth, besides the obvious departure from canon, is that the reason the dwarves are short, and the elves are tall, and the Hobbits have hairy feet, is because they are of different genetic makeup because they hail from different regions. In other words, middle earth is already quite diverse. Just not in the way woke culture wants it to be. |
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Quoted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J14yJz2GxRI Here's the specific link to where they discuss viewer numbers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J14yJz2GxRI&t=2422s In short: the trades lie all the time, and they use so many dirty tricks to bloat numbers you can't trust them. The 25mil views number is going to need verification from sources and by means we can trust, otherwise, it's no better than people saying that the jackson lotr flicks didn't make a profit. If you haven't heard about that ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting Peter Jackson, director of The Lord of the Rings (2001-03), and his studio Wingnut Films, brought a lawsuit in 2007 against New Line Cinema after an audit. Jackson stated this is regarding "certain accounting practices". In response, New Line stated that their rights to a film of The Hobbit were time-limited, and since Jackson would not work with them again until the suit was settled, he would not be asked to direct The Hobbit, as had been anticipated.[21] Fifteen actors sued New Line Cinema, claiming that they have never received their 5% of revenue from merchandise sold in relation to the movie, which contained their likenesses.[22] Similarly, the Tolkien estate sued New Line, claiming that their contract entitled them to 7.5% of the gross receipts of the $6 billion hit.[23] According to New Line's accounts, the trilogy made "horrendous losses" and no profit at all.[24] https://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/hollywood-accounting.htm The numbers are laughable. How is it possible, for example, that "Return of the Jedi"is unprofitable? The movie ranks among the top 20 biggest blockbusters of all time and has earned more than $500 million on a $32 million budget — but, according to Hollywood accounting, it's still in the red [source: Rowles]. Of course the movie made and continues to make money for the studio. But the notion that it's unprofitable is all part of the system. Entertainment studios tell a story about costs that don't really exist to funnel any profits back their way. In the end, they get away with it. Despite some high-profile cases challenging Hollywood accounting, most net profit participants never receive any profits [source: Abelson]. Yet "net points" continue to be given freely by the studios. The next pages will examine how Hollywood accounting works, the types of movies affected — and why the system is likely to persist. For those poor souls that think hollywood won't apply this to the viewership numbers on streaming services ... I have this ring to sell you cheap, totally no baggage in owning it. View Quote I have no interest in watching this LOTR show on Amazon. I was watching a movie the other day and got up at the end of it without exiting to the Amazon video main menu. The LOTR show starts playing automatically, despite the fact that I did not initiate the show nor did I have it on my watchlist. So I guess ol' Jeff is counting me amongst their "massive viewership" because the show started playing automatically, without any input from me, and I "watched" it for about 15 seconds before I could turn it off? I imagine many other "views" are due to similar circumstances. Would be curious to look at the real data myself. |
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My wife loves LOTR and Tolkien generally. Her dream trip is to New Zealand to see Hobbiton. She couldn't make it past 30 minutes. She paused it and said, "I'm booored."
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Quoted: I don't have an issue with color of actors. I have an issue with them blatantly shoving diversity, gurl power, lgbtbbq constantly in our faces. I can over look all of that that but the story lines and bad acting I can't. Its just not a good series so far. Not sure how you can fix crappy acting. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Tolkein……. He made mention of the various races appearances I don't have an issue with color of actors. I have an issue with them blatantly shoving diversity, gurl power, lgbtbbq constantly in our faces. I can over look all of that that but the story lines and bad acting I can't. Its just not a good series so far. Not sure how you can fix crappy acting. Well, in the original story, they were described in appearance…….. I don’t ever remember JRR saying anything about his characters being like they are in this failure of a show……. So there’s your diversity packing…… |
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Quoted: There is a difference between how Tolkien described the protagonists in his books and how they were later portrayed in other media. While Tolkien portrayed Orks and other evil races as being dark, how many light coloured monsters exist in any fiction or lore? There were dark skinned races considered ‘evil’ in his books, and there were other races that were not well described in terms of skin tone. Throw in LOTR was written between 1938-1948; different period. View Quote Dracula…….. Frankenstein……… |
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Amazon suspends reviews of rings of power, they are afraid additional bad reviews will cause the show to further tank.
Rings of Power is so bad amazon has suspended reviews. |
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Quoted: JFC dude If orcs remind you of black people maybe you are the racist. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: There is a difference between how Tolkien described the protagonists in his books and how they were later portrayed in other media. While Tolkien portrayed Orks and other evil races as being dark, how many light coloured monsters exist in any fiction or lore? There were dark skinned races considered 'evil' in his books, and there were other races that were not well described in terms of skin tone. Throw in LOTR was written between 1938-1948; different period. JFC dude If orcs remind you of black people maybe you are the racist. |
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Elon has entered the chat
https://www.youtube.com/post/Ugkxy8JeUxM6BjaqnC8UI_pMOEoFffTM4f-O the quote has already been posted but some of the comments are great |
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Quoted: The trouble with doing this in middle earth, besides the obvious departure from canon, is that the reason the dwarves are short, and the elves are tall, and the Hobbits have hairy feet, is because they are of different genetic makeup because they hail from different regions. In other words, middle earth is already quite diverse. Just not in the way woke culture wants it to be. View Quote Ethan Van Sciver, David Stewart, Razorfist, etc have all hit on this. The issue is modern "feminine" roll players, gamers and writers all want to self insert instead of power fantasy. It's not you take on the persona of an evil wizard, it's your persona is in the body of an evil wizard... So if I'm gay and black, now I need to play as a gay black elf.... Combine that with everyone trying overlay "meaning" and "innuendo" to EVERYTHING and suddenly Orcs are no longer feral elemental beings of savagery and evil but rather just a miss understood tribal society hated because of their appearance and a stand in for real world American and African Natives. (I'd say the Ork Hordes of Fantasy sound closer to the roaming Mongol Hordes...but whatever). |
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Quoted: let's not turn this thread into the many many ways you are wrong Starship Troopers is a great movie View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: No power armor. No History and Moral Philosophy. None of the other things the book really covered. No nukes. You've got a bunch of idiots w/ rifles running around doing stupid things. let's not turn this thread into the many many ways you are wrong Starship Troopers is a great movie As "Starship Troopers" it's a horrible movie. It doesn't deserve to wear that title. As a generic bug hunt movie it's mediocre at best. If people are referring to the naked tits in the movie, there are lots of better movies out there w/ as many more more naked tits. |
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View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I just hope they do Fallout better than this. I forgot all about that. https://c.tenor.com/u4GjkWBRpFwAAAAC/ben-affleck-thinking.gif I am not holding my breath. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I just hope they do Fallout better than this. I forgot all about that. https://c.tenor.com/u4GjkWBRpFwAAAAC/ben-affleck-thinking.gif I am not holding my breath. I guess the good thing about Fallout is that there is NO canon in terms of "main character" for anything past Fallout 1 and 2 - in Fallout 4 you could be the strong is woman who is kicking everyone's ass if you wanted to be, and same in Fallout 3. So there's less to "violate" even if the story ends up being about a "strong woman" - because anyone could have built such a character anyway. So I am not too worried about that aspect of it. I am just worried they won't get the atmosphere and "feel" of the post-apocalyptic world right. |
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Quoted: I guess the good thing about Fallout is that there is NO canon in terms of "main character" for anything past Fallout 1 and 2 - in Fallout 4 you could be the strong is woman who is kicking everyone's ass if you wanted to be, and same in Fallout 3. So there's less to "violate" even if the story ends up being about a "strong woman" - because anyone could have built such a character anyway. So I am not too worried about that aspect of it. I am just worried they won't get the atmosphere and "feel" of the post-apocalyptic world right. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I just hope they do Fallout better than this. I forgot all about that. https://c.tenor.com/u4GjkWBRpFwAAAAC/ben-affleck-thinking.gif I am not holding my breath. I guess the good thing about Fallout is that there is NO canon in terms of "main character" for anything past Fallout 1 and 2 - in Fallout 4 you could be the strong is woman who is kicking everyone's ass if you wanted to be, and same in Fallout 3. So there's less to "violate" even if the story ends up being about a "strong woman" - because anyone could have built such a character anyway. So I am not too worried about that aspect of it. I am just worried they won't get the atmosphere and "feel" of the post-apocalyptic world right. But as long as there is diversity, then the apocalypse can proceed |
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Quoted: I guess the good thing about Fallout is that there is NO canon in terms of "main character" for anything past Fallout 1 and 2 - in Fallout 4 you could be the strong is woman who is kicking everyone's ass if you wanted to be, and same in Fallout 3. So there's less to "violate" even if the story ends up being about a "strong woman" - because anyone could have built such a character anyway. So I am not too worried about that aspect of it. I am just worried they won't get the atmosphere and "feel" of the post-apocalyptic world right. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I just hope they do Fallout better than this. I forgot all about that. https://c.tenor.com/u4GjkWBRpFwAAAAC/ben-affleck-thinking.gif I am not holding my breath. I guess the good thing about Fallout is that there is NO canon in terms of "main character" for anything past Fallout 1 and 2 - in Fallout 4 you could be the strong is woman who is kicking everyone's ass if you wanted to be, and same in Fallout 3. So there's less to "violate" even if the story ends up being about a "strong woman" - because anyone could have built such a character anyway. So I am not too worried about that aspect of it. I am just worried they won't get the atmosphere and "feel" of the post-apocalyptic world right. That's a good point. There have been some set photo leaks: The Fallout TV Show Leaked |
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Quoted: Does the story suck? I'll wait to see if I should waste my time. View Quote At this point I'm just into it for morbid curiosity to see if they keep attempting to tie more actual ME history into the story. And maybe a little for the visuals too. The rendering of Laurelin was cool. |
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Quoted: They literally rewrote the entire backstory. The Noldor didn't revolt against the Valar, it was a heroic pursuit of Melkor. Her brother (doesn't say his name, presumably Finrod, but she had three) is killed by Sauron after the War of Wrath. Elves only get to return to Valinor as a reward for, something, IDK, but Gil-Galad can apparently grant access. View Quote |
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Exclusive Scene From The Rings Of Power |
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Quoted: I guess the good thing about Fallout is that there is NO canon in terms of "main character" for anything past Fallout 1 and 2 - in Fallout 4 you could be the strong is woman who is kicking everyone's ass if you wanted to be, and same in Fallout 3. So there's less to "violate" even if the story ends up being about a "strong woman" - because anyone could have built such a character anyway. So I am not too worried about that aspect of it. I am just worried they won't get the atmosphere and "feel" of the post-apocalyptic world right. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I just hope they do Fallout better than this. I forgot all about that. https://c.tenor.com/u4GjkWBRpFwAAAAC/ben-affleck-thinking.gif I am not holding my breath. I guess the good thing about Fallout is that there is NO canon in terms of "main character" for anything past Fallout 1 and 2 - in Fallout 4 you could be the strong is woman who is kicking everyone's ass if you wanted to be, and same in Fallout 3. So there's less to "violate" even if the story ends up being about a "strong woman" - because anyone could have built such a character anyway. So I am not too worried about that aspect of it. I am just worried they won't get the atmosphere and "feel" of the post-apocalyptic world right. I’m concerned they will write it in that the apocalypse was caused by “MAGA forces” |
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Quoted: But as long as there is diversity, then the apocalypse can proceed View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I just hope they do Fallout better than this. I forgot all about that. https://c.tenor.com/u4GjkWBRpFwAAAAC/ben-affleck-thinking.gif I am not holding my breath. I guess the good thing about Fallout is that there is NO canon in terms of "main character" for anything past Fallout 1 and 2 - in Fallout 4 you could be the strong is woman who is kicking everyone's ass if you wanted to be, and same in Fallout 3. So there's less to "violate" even if the story ends up being about a "strong woman" - because anyone could have built such a character anyway. So I am not too worried about that aspect of it. I am just worried they won't get the atmosphere and "feel" of the post-apocalyptic world right. But as long as there is diversity, then the apocalypse can proceed To be fair there were gender-bending supermutants in one of them. FO is full of hilarious stuff. |
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Quoted: It was stealthy enough that no one realized Frodo was wearing it until he got stuck with that spear in Moria. Plus the scene was underground. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Doesn't mithril glow in moonlight? Or am I misremembering? His sword glows when orcs are near not good armor |
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Quoted: Dizzy is def ride or die. . . . but damn, no way I'm not picking Carmen View Quote Seriously? Carmen is the type that would just fuck you until she can find the richer guy. Dizzy is the type that would fuck you in front of the rich guy. Dizzy is the wild type that would bust her ass to impress you where Carmen is the type that would fuck you and then take your ass to the cleaners as she runs off with your boss. ROCK6 |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Can anyone even tell me what the significance was when the 2 dwarven leaders were talking? It was like they had something and it was a big deal but lets not actually give any fucking useful info out about it. It's 100% going to be revealed that the Dwarves have found Mithril. It's basically a super-valuable metal.....and is why the Dwarves of Moria dug "too deeply and too greedily" and woke up a Balrog a couple thousand years later. It's a Simaril. |
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Quoted: I am liking it so far. Who knows what colour folks were in Middle Earth. View Quote I'm watching it and it has far less to do with the race of the characters than the poor connections to the original work and simply bad acting. While it doesn't really bother me, it would be like remaking The Color Purple with Chinese, Arabic, and Hispanic slave actors. Even if the casting was top notch, excellent acting and screen writing, it would go over like a massive turd in the punch bowl. The CGI and special effects of Middle Earth are the only reason I'm watching it. So far the best acting has been the Orc...and they cut his head off. I've just disconnected any relation to Tolkien's work and enjoying it for the visuals. ROCK6 |
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Sums it up.
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Quoted: The dwarves did not find a Silmaril in the mountain ...They have been made in the moon/sun at this point in the world, that was First Age happenings. The Arkenstone was found in Erebor, this show has to with Khazad-d m (or Moria), dwarves discovered Mithril in Khazad-d m, and also a Maiar(same being as Gandolf)...the Balrog which had been made evil by Melkor while mining for more and more Mithril. Galadriel was pretty bad ass warrior as well, helping lead the revolt of the Noldar, so not sure where the hate for her character in the show comes from, if you follow her story arc she is one of the most powerful beings in all of Middle Earth. Maybe instead of worrying about OMG a brown elf!!!!!1!!!!! Know your material better of more important things... I really like the show, and look forward to where they take it. As for meteor guy...I think it's Tom Bombadil...but am probably wrong. or could be Glroifindel...guess I'll have to watch to find out. View Quote Silmaril wasn't made into "sun/moon". Galadriel didn't "lead the revolt" of the Noldor. Tom Bombadill is thought to be a habitant of Arda since the music was revealed, and there was nothing Elvish warrior about the falling homeless man. |
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Well I unapologetically am enjoying the show.
I’ve read most of Tolkien’s books including the Simarillion. People get bent out of shape about the most trivial of things. |
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really wanted to like it, but I dont. cant put my finger on it. Ill try episode 3.
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Quoted: I finally got around to watching this over the weekend. The race-swap stuff wasn't a huge deal - occasionally annoying, but nothing more. The main problem is that it's just...bad. Whoever called it "Game of Thones made by the CW" was spot-on. Cheesy dialog, nonsensical pacing, poor acting, and one-dimensional characters. View Quote Honestly, I was just BORED when I tried to watch it, and found myself fast-forwarding through scenes that were completely uninteresting. |
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View Quote I watched that yesterday; a good satire on the stupidity of "wokeness". The ending aligns with fjb's recent speeches. |
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Quoted: That's actually a good point...Drizzt was a "dark elf" https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/lps0WuWrNeOSpby_kPbgQcFgKLE=/1400x1400/filters:format(jpeg)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/22528139/drizzt_cover_art.jpg Nothing "fair" about Drizzt Do'Urden, but he kicked ass! I'm sure Amazon or Netflix would be scared to give him that "white" hair, or associate a "dark" elf with mostly being evil, and they would most assuredly make him a transgendered gay she-male to fit with modern times and popular culture ROCK6 View Quote "Dark" wasn't a descriptor of complexion ---> https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Moriquendi |
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