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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:00:27 PM EDT
[#1]
I don't do ultimatums. If an employee asks for a raise, that is fine. If they say they have to have a raise or they are leaving, then I say goodbye. Simple as that. I don't "fire" them. I tell them no to the raise and they have to hold up their end of the deal. They quit. We had one that did that crap with our old manager shortly after he got married and got his wife pregnant.
He told the manager that since he had a wife and kid on the way, he needed more money in order to keep his job. He wanted more money than anyone else in his section was getting paid at the time. The manager at the time gave him the raise. I would not have given him the raise. Many of the other employees were married with kids and they were making it just fine. And, I didn't make him get married or have a kid. He had the fun in making the kid, he has to deal with the consequences of that fun. If he couldn't afford the kid at his current level of pay, then he should have bought a 75 cent condom or abstained or pulled out. In other words, I don't listen to ultimatums and I don't fall for sob stories involving kids. Now illnesses with family and kids are different, but saying you deserve more money because you had sex doesn't jive with me. jmho. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:00:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm a millennial and I wouldn't get out of bed for 75k. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:01:14 PM EDT
[#3]
This is not going to go the way OP intended...
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:01:17 PM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:01:39 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I see it quite a bit with the millennials, but I would say we seem to have a cultural problem whereby lots of people can't seem to connect that their compensation must correspond in some way to the value they provide to whatever organization the work for. Everyone gets a participation trophy as a kid, so they assume rewards are no longer associated with results. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:01:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Maybe it's because I'm in that weird no-man's land between Gen-X and Z (or millennial, or whatever), but this doesn't sound crazy to me. It sounds like they already had another gig lined up, and figured they'd do you the favor of letting you match the salary. You didn't, they split, you're both happy.
What am I missing? None of this sounds CRAZY to me. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:02:05 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know your industry is probably very different than mine but if a competent, well liked service rep in my industry was making 57k he'd be underpaid. If he quit for not getting a raise to 75k then I'm guessing he already had a similar paying job set up and was seeing if you'd match or pay better. Hardly crazy, I'd do the same thing. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:02:23 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why be loyal to a company? Profit sharing, pensions, steady raises don't exist anymore. The only way to get more benefits is to negotiate them at the next employment contract based on your experience. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:03:18 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
you technically can't fire someone asking for a raise, even if it's stupid. even at employ at will states, HR still needs documentation and all that shit for fear of a lawsuit. and he probably had another job lined up already. Your company's policy might be different, but that is not required by law. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:03:24 PM EDT
[#10]
Well, you have the market average for your job in a given location and you have your place compared to that
average based on your experience, qualifications and performance.... If he found that you were paying him below where he rated then he was right to ask for a raise and I can only assume that he left for a company that would pay him closer to what the market would support. Or He is an entitled idiot who left a good paying job because his boss wouldn't agree to pay him well above market value and now he is spending his days playing his x-box in his mom's basement... It could really go either way |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:04:51 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Right to work or not, be prepared for a wrongful termination lawsuit. As you stated, they were good at their job. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:06:00 PM EDT
[#12]
In today's world 5 years is a long time to stay in the same role. I don't think that is a millennial thing (but heck I'm a millennial so I could be wrong). He probably had another job offer for $75, but liked his current one and would have rather stayed. I had a conversation with my boss just last week who flat out said the only person who is looking out for your career is you. You offer a company a service at a certain price, but your service is only worth so much to the company. You can always be replaced. Based on what I know about my company he was in no way hinting that my job was on the line, just being realistic. It is smart to know what you are worth outside of your current company. All that said If he left without a new job lined up he was stupid.
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:07:25 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryBut as a person advances, they will reach a point whereby the time in a job can become a point of concern. If I'm trying to hire a lead/architect/sr mgr/director/etc, I want someone who I believe will stick around to see the job through. There is a balance to achieve, depending on what stage of a career a person is in. I don't begrudge anyone who is able to better themselves elsewhere. But it's inane to think you can demand a comp increase unless you can also demonstrate the impact you're having. Even if you can make more somewhere else, that doesn't mean the current company is able to derive the same value from the same position. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:07:54 PM EDT
[#14]
I'm willing to bet the market rate was $75k for him somewhere else (ie he had another offer) and was giving you the chance to match because he thought that was the right thing to do. But could be wrong
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:08:17 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok, so lets say I can make $100k doing what I'm doing but I want to work at Taco Bell. If I act all butt hurt because Taco Bell wont pay me $100k to take drive through orders, who's crazy? Loyalty goes both ways and if most of that guy's job can be automated, per OP, then 57k was way the fuck overpaid. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:08:25 PM EDT
[#16]
Millennial checking in here I think? Aged 22, I've been at my current job for 5 years. We've gone through a ton of people since I've been there. Had 2 kids younger than me quit, one of which was caused because he got asked to sweep the floor.
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:10:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or maybe they see that their wages give them less buying power than what their parents had. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:11:38 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Millennial checking in here. I've been at my current job for 5 years. We've gone through a ton of people since I've been there. Had 2 kids younger than me quit, one of which was caused because he got asked to sweep the floor. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:13:06 PM EDT
[#19]
But OP they were entitled to that money
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:13:19 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.... It was quite common to see people jump ship 18-24 months in seek of a promotion (title/opportunity/salary) because it was one of the most effect ways to get advance. Quote HistoryQuoted:
.... It was quite common to see people jump ship 18-24 months in seek of a promotion (title/opportunity/salary) because it was one of the most effect ways to get advance. But as a person advances, they will reach a point whereby the time in a job can become a point of concern. If I'm trying to hire a lead/architect/sr mgr/director/etc, I want someone who I believe will stick around to see the job through. There is a balance to achieve, depending on what stage of a career a person is in. ... |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:15:48 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
you technically can't fire someone asking for a raise, even if it's stupid. even at employ at will states, HR still needs documentation and all that shit for fear of a lawsuit. and he probably had another job lined up already. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:15:54 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll sweep floors all day long if the pay is good. Hell, I'm just getting done with lunch. I'm gonna go show some initiative and dust mop the station. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Millennial checking in here. I've been at my current job for 5 years. We've gone through a ton of people since I've been there. Had 2 kids younger than me quit, one of which was caused because he got asked to sweep the floor. 
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:16:35 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i get plenty of those too. I plan to automate most of their duties over the course of the next 2 years. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:16:51 PM EDT
[#24]
I was thinking this would be a post about some punk who was too good to do some job he was being paid for or something.
What you describe is nothing new, and nothing especially attributable to millenials. It's called negotiation, and especially if he had another job lined up then good for him. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:17:20 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL. And what do you do for a living money bags? |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:18:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
you technically can't fire someone asking for a raise, even if it's stupid. even at employ at will states, HR still needs documentation and all that shit for fear of a lawsuit. and he probably had another job lined up already. A.W.D. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:19:16 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok, so lets say I can make $100k doing what I'm doing but I want to work at Taco Bell. If I act all butt hurt because Taco Bell wont pay me $100k to take drive through orders, who's crazy? Loyalty goes both ways and if most of that guy's job can be automated, per OP, then 57k was way the fuck overpaid. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:19:22 PM EDT
[#28]
Sounds like you're bummed that you lost a good employee. I'm gonna assume there wasn't a job that you had for them that could've paid what they were asking, or you would've given it to them. I suspect that they'll be back. Good on you for not giving the raise. You can hire capable software developers that can make CSRs more efficient or obsolete for that kind of money.
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:20:27 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was thinking this would be a post about some punk who was too good to do some job he was being paid for or something. What you describe is nothing new, and nothing especially attributable to millenials. It's called negotiation, and especially if he had another job lined up then good for him. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:20:41 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm a millennial and I wouldn't get out of bed for 75k. 
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:22:26 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A year or a month? Big difference. I mean anything....
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:22:56 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe it's because I'm in that weird no-man's land between Gen-X and Z (or millennial, or whatever), but this doesn't sound crazy to me. It sounds like they already had another gig lined up, and figured they'd do you the favor of letting you match the salary. You didn't, they split, you're both happy. What am I missing? None of this sounds CRAZY to me. Sounds fine to me. Give the current place a chance to match the other offer and if they don't later sk8ter. This is due to companies getting rid of pensions. Because there is not pension, there is no reason to put in the years of service. That's a down fall of trying to be cheap and cut costs. Where my pops works they still offer pensions to new hires. Guess what, people stay there for the long haul and people are begging to get hired. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:22:59 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP merchandises Freedom... can't put a price on that! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
57K seems high for a customer service rep. I guess that depends on cost of living where you are and what industry. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:23:51 PM EDT
[#34]
The dude had an offer somewhere else. What's the big deal?
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:24:41 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
you technically can't fire someone asking for a raise, even if it's stupid. even at employ at will states, HR still needs documentation and all that shit for fear of a lawsuit. and he probably had another job lined up already. 20+ years of litigation in this area in an at will state says you are absolutely wrong. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:29:19 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe it's because I'm in that weird no-man's land between Gen-X and Z (or millennial, or whatever), but this doesn't sound crazy to me. It sounds like they already had another gig lined up, and figured they'd do you the favor of letting you match the salary. You didn't, they split, you're both happy. What am I missing? None of this sounds CRAZY to me. in the same way, people seem to think that the employee owes loyalty on top of services, while the employer owes nothing more than payment for services rendered. but that's wrong--the employee is just as much a business entity as the employer, and is free to make decisions based on pure self-interest. if an employer decided that the employee wasn't doing enough, the employee would get fired. so it makes sense for the employee to be able to fire the employer also. it's just good business. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:29:45 PM EDT
[#37]
What is this CRS due? Is it B to B sales. My CSRs are worth their wait in gold and are paid much more then 57k. But we are dealing with 6 or 7 figure POs.
Paul |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:29:46 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Millennial checking in. I asked for a 150% raise and it was granted. I know what I'm worth though, so yeah |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:30:05 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He told the manager that since he had a wife and kid on the way, he needed more money in order to keep his job. He wanted more money than anyone else in his section was getting paid at the time. . I told her that's not what raises were based on or we would all be making more money. She asked for additional work, and I told her that if we had work that NEEDED to be done, then it would have already been assigned to someone. She quit. Then she reapplied for her old job when we posted it. We hired someone else who had more education and experience, and lacked a sense of entitlement. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:30:50 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"I demand an $18K raise for no justifiable reason, or I walk!" is a shitty negotiation strategy. Unless for some reason you're trying to get fired instead of simply resigning. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I was thinking this would be a post about some punk who was too good to do some job he was being paid for or something. What you describe is nothing new, and nothing especially attributable to millenials. It's called negotiation, and especially if he had another job lined up then good for him. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:31:03 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The dude had an offer somewhere else. What's the big deal? Style A is some company/industry-specific variation upon: "Boss, I've been thinking about my role here.. (nice things about the company here)... And the value I bring to the company (nice things about self here)... but I've been recruited by another company who is offering $75K. That pay is in line with what I'm worth. But I like it here. I'd like to stay here. Is it possible to restructure my compensation so I can stay here?" Style B is "Boss, you don't pay me enough. Everyone else around town pays $75k. I should make that too. I demand a raise to $75k!" Which approach do you think is more likely to get you a raise (outside of NYC, of course)? Which is more likely to get you fired, regardless of how good a job you do or whether you've earned a raise? As a former business owner, let me assure you: You come to me with Style B, and no matter how good an employee you are you just put your continued employment with me on very thin ice. Everyone is replaceable, it's just a matter of how much pain I am willing to accept by losing them. If the pain of keeping you is greater than the pain of losing you, then I will replace you. It's that simple. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:31:39 PM EDT
[#42]
57k a year sucks. I'd ask for a raise too.
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:33:24 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"I demand an $18K raise for no justifiable reason, or I walk!" is a shitty negotiation strategy. Unless for some reason you're trying to get fired instead of simply resigning. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:33:50 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Except that's not what the OP posted. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I was thinking this would be a post about some punk who was too good to do some job he was being paid for or something. What you describe is nothing new, and nothing especially attributable to millenials. It's called negotiation, and especially if he had another job lined up then good for him. Came to me last week demanding $75,000 salary. ETA: And OP confirms above it was "$75k or I walk." |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:33:57 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"I demand an $18K raise for no justifiable reason, or I walk!" is a shitty negotiation strategy. Unless for some reason you're trying to get fired instead of simply resigning. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I was thinking this would be a post about some punk who was too good to do some job he was being paid for or something. What you describe is nothing new, and nothing especially attributable to millenials. It's called negotiation, and especially if he had another job lined up then good for him. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:35:21 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That was my assumption too. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:37:14 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP already said he regarded him as overpaid, if the employee was aware of this then there is not much reason trying to bend his arm when opportunity appears. Especially is OP didn't offer any kind of counter. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I was thinking this would be a post about some punk who was too good to do some job he was being paid for or something. What you describe is nothing new, and nothing especially attributable to millenials. It's called negotiation, and especially if he had another job lined up then good for him. Because if you know your boss thinks you are overpaid, and you demand a raise anyway, either you WANT to get fired for some odd reason (like not repaying a hiring bonus, but from now on you have to tell future prospective employers "I have been terminated from employment at a previous job" which never looks good) or you get paid in coloring books and crayons. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:38:32 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe it's because I'm in that weird no-man's land between Gen-X and Z (or millennial, or whatever), but this doesn't sound crazy to me. It sounds like they already had another gig lined up, and figured they'd do you the favor of letting you match the salary. You didn't, they split, you're both happy. What am I missing? None of this sounds CRAZY to me. |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:39:36 PM EDT
[#49]
Fpni.
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Posted: 3/27/2017 3:41:46 PM EDT
[#50]
What's more fun is managers who continually get raises and bonuses while doing fuck all and then balk when employees ask for raises.
Millennial or not, piss poor managers can ruin a business faster than a shitty employee can. Walking in and swinging for the fence is never a good attack plan unless you hold all the cards or are instrumental in a corporate structure. 10% raise is more of a reasonable goal if you're just looking to see how the wind blows. |
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