Oh I agree and some of the arguments are crazy. I'll have to log into westlaw and see if it's still in my saved items but there was one where it was essentially argued that the non compete hurt a man's ability to survive and the court sided in his favor.

No, OP (and many of us here) are shaking their head that an employee would DEMAND a raise without making a case for it "or else I quit!!!"  

That is a juvenile and immature attitude, and a piss-poor negotiation strategy.  A great many managers would fire a person for it just because of the outrage.

A smart guy SELLS his boss on why he's worth a raise.  "Or I will quit" should be the last of several cards to play, not the first and only.

You guys who say OP failed because he refused to counter-offer must have missed OP's subsequent post in which he confirms there was no negotiation, just a "gimme a raise or I quit!" maneuver.  The employee is the FAIL here because instead of simply leaving for a new job, he/she now has a termination on their employment history. It is nearly always better to quit than to be fired (unless you are a cop with a powerful union backing you up).

Entitlement Whores.

In their minds you owe them.

And yes, they'd rather be jobless vs working for what they want.

That's about $27.62 hr near as I can figure. 75k figures out @ $36.33 hr. 

Most of the 'customer service' jobs I see pay about $12.00 - $15.00 an hour to start. The OP's guy was making twice that wage...and wanted 3 times that wage. 

to clarify, i did not terminate the employees but rather accepted their notice instead of offering any raise.

As others said, the guy surely had something else lined up.

If he didn't have anything else lined up, he is an idiot and you don't want him working for you anyhow.

Sounds to me like someone was offered a job elsewhere for $75,000.

He said it all with his title. The OP is lumping all millennials in with a behavior he didnt like. A behavior that has likely been around as long as currency and employment. The guy was a bad negotiator. Every time I've asked for a raise, even back to fazolis when I was 15, was accompanied by data on why I was worth it. So his post should be, I lost a good employee because he never learned negotiation. Not millennial workers are crazy, because obviously he liked the guys work.

Goddammit OP, I'm in the middle of a perfectly good rant here, and you have to go and fuck it up!!!

OK then I rescind my part about having a termination on their record.  

OP next time please record this on your smartphone (horizontally, not vertically) and post it here so we can get the straight scoop.

"...one of whom...", not "...one of which..."

Our first year apprentices make $28.26 an hour.  $36.73 is third year wages.

Here's the thing now days. One of the easiest ways to get substantial raises is to leave and go somewhere else. With 401k's you can take them with you so usually no loss there.

Many employers want to give 1-3% raises if any at all for basically the rest of your career. I have seen many that will promote and barely give you a raise or make you salary and have you work more hours.

Due to HR, whiney bitches or unions employers usually have a hard time keeping employees who are leaving to get a large raise somewhere else.

If you ask me, assuming this employee is leaving to make 75k somewhere else he would be crazy to not leave.

Hey, I'm not knocking you for being successful, just pointing out that your situation is anything but typical.

Are there hard working millennials out there?  Sure, but IME they don't outnumber the entitled, safe space drama queens.

I would think it possible that you don't have the option of paying the 75k in any case.

The pay scheme you describe in the OP is that of a non-exempt employee. If you pay him a flat 75k, you have turned him into an exempt employee.

I suppose it's possible that you carried him as an exempt employee, yet still paid him overtime. In the business I am in, that right there would be extremely rare.

Agreed but I don't understand the reasoning behind the demand. If you got a better offer then say you got a better offer. Why make the ultimatum?

I've been in that spot twice in my career and both times I came right out and said I had a better offer paying X amount more. If you can't match it I'm out. In one case I was 99.9999% sure they wouldn't match. In the other I was 100% certain I wouldn't stay even if they did match.

Look at it this way. You walk up to your boss and say "I want 31% more money to do the same amount of work" where is the incentive? More money for the same product? Sounds like a good deal to me . On the other hand if you say "I have an offer from another company paying me 31% more. I'm willing to stay here if you can match that increase." you change the conversation. The boss has to think that if it is the same job he might be way behind the compensation curve and has to worry about retention. Or if it is for a different position he has to think  that if you're worth that much more to someone else he might have overlooked some potential in you. Or he might just tell you thanks but no thanks and to clear your desk out but at least its a better start than "give me more money or else".

We hired a new guy on January 3.

In the 13 subsequent weeks he has work all five days in the week exactly.....ONE time.

Once ....

5 out of the 13 weeks he has only worked 3 days.

I have no idea why he hasn't been fired yet.

ETA: He didn't show up today either...

This is pretty common in the engineering field.
Ive even told my guys who were topped out " Bring me a offer and I'll bring it to the bean counters "

If you are a software developer with 10 years experience, you either do really basic work or are not very good at your job

Im a "millennial"... Everytime I have left a job it has been after trying to improve quality or products or quality of life while working there.

When it is clear that poor management and poor quality are acceptable to the company I have looked my supervisor in the face and said "Im sick of this, Im finding a new job"

They have always seemed surprised when I pack up my stuff to leave, and generally try to offer me more money or tell me they are working on the problems I brought up six months/ a year ago...

Millennial employees are as crazy as boomer bosses are foolish...

This has GOT to be a parody post.

Attached File

We have an anecdote suggesting that at least one Millenial employee is crazy, though only in his manner of approach, not in overall reasoning (in my opinion).

If I was offered +30% elsewhere I would have the same conversation with my current employer, but I would approach it very differently than was described here. 

$75k?

I thought hurt feelings were supposed to be a millienial trait?

I don't see the problem.  Worker came in with a value of his self-worth.  Employer disagreed.  Worker left.  If worker has another job at to near 75k, he was right.  If he's still unemployed, worker is wrong.  If he's employed between 57 and 60 or so, it's a draw.  It's just the free market at work.

That's what I have heard.
I like to call them as I see them. Not all are that way but some are.

Are you projecting?

What field?  Total package or on the check?  If the latter are you hiring?  

Yep, sounds about right to me.

Plenty of threads here with an OP in a similar situation - having an offer at a new place of employment for higher wage but not wanting to leave current place.

But yeah..."Millennials" 

Sure you can: $75k.  

Electrician's.  That's IBEW Local 302 wages.

302 just started a new class of apprentices.  Probably be a least a year before they sign up more.

I would argue $25hr is competitive now in some areas

I wont smile for less than 60k

I'll bite.

I'm 33, have ten years of experience, and my current title is "Senior Software Developer".

Glassdoor.com says the average salary for those credentials is $120k.

Not bad for a lazy Millennial, eh?

Dead serious, I walked away from a job at 22 that sucked, was offered a 20% raise when the company I had applied for called for a reference. I turned down the raise and walked out for a cut in pay at what I was making before the raise was offered. I had been there 2 years and was in charge of a small assembly department that built manufacturing machines. I had every assembly memorized, bolts, torque, etc (largest was just over 2500pc). When I left he replaced me with 2 people making 50% more than me.  When I had initially asked for a raise I was turned down, but once it was a reality I was leaving he offered me more money to stay. The owner ended up cursing me when I left anyways.

A few years ago I was in a very specialized field, I was pushing hard for efficiency and uniform process. After 6 months of showing up early every day and working off the clock I finally told my boss I was done and I was looking for a new job, if he was going to run the job the way he was running it I had better shit to do with my life and I was going fishing (that day). Unsafe, shorting employees pay/changing schedules last minute on a regular basis, some really fucked up things I cant get into (one of the lead engineers told me efficiency wasnt a concern and one of the head managers told me as long as we hit our schedule nothing else mattered when I brought up issues with safety, quality, and training).  I was already paid 15% more than most of the guys in the same position, and they gave me a promotion with a ~6% raise when I told them I was looking for a new job. The raise came the day before I got another job offer, I ended up using it to get another dollar and some change over my new rate... boss was still surprised when I walked into the office and said "I told you I have better shit to do with my life" and told him I had accepted a new job and would be starting in 2 weeks. (They ended up offering me another promotion with a 12% raise on top of the 6% they already gave me to come back. I declined)

I want to support my company and my teammates, but at the end of the day I need to look out for me. If I don't feel safe, or feel like what I am doing is a lost cause I will eject and find something else to do. I have no debt, and a lifestyle that's below my income. The one time I felt I may HAVE to find a new job, I found one on the way home from work that day, making close to the same wage as I was making. (ended up not needing it)

In this day there are a dozen companies (hundreds or thousands if you dont mind moving) doing the same work offering the same wage or more. Ive never worked for a paycheck, Ive always worked for a leader. If you have an issue keeping GOOD employees, look at your first line supervisors and managers... (not at OP, just in general)

My p/tjob at the local gun shop pays $10/ hr for me to answer phones and emails. That is Like nothing to me considering my pension and SS., but it is fun.
most of the staff is retired military or police like me. We try to hire only same, same gunnies.

We made the mistake of giving a job to guys nephew, 22, never worked anything but fast food.
We gave hin $15/ hr he was so happy - until the second week when We chewed his ass for calling in on his saturday, seems he was hung over. Got so butt hurt he threatened to quit. His uncle went nuts and told the ungrateful fuck he was fired for insubordination.

$52K/year to push a broom? LOL are they hiring part time?

+1. IT pays fairly well, depending on exactly what you specialize in and where you live (it ain't the guy answering the phone when you call the Helpdesk). My younger brother (born in '83) pulls down ~$110k as a Senior Developer for a small startup here in DFW. 

I do a little better than that (born in '79) as a Senior Network Engineer (mostly Cisco voice these days) with 19 years in the industry. 

There are younger dudes a LOT more motivated than me pulling down $150k+. They usually work for a carrier (or somebody else suitably massive), have at least one CCIE to their name, and will have the word "Architect" somewhere in their title. Or they're on a 1099 and just hop from one consulting gig to the other. 

MY funniest millenial employee story is when one new guy got in a car accident, and was laid up for a few days.  His mom showed up in my office, and asked if there was any work he could do at home.  

I said no, but there's something you can do.

What do you charge per hour for his time?   i didn't get a raise the last 12 years of my job.  They claimed that we were over paid but they had no problem charging $285/hour for our time.  During those 12 years they raised their service rate by almost $100/hour.   People were leaving left and right getting $20,000 per year more.  My boss said that they were having to put up with the same BS where they were going.  I replied yes, but they are getting paid $20,000 more per year to put up with it.  

One guy did get a $60/year raise to make him equal with everyone else.

Initech or Initrode?

The best part about old fucks broad-brushing millennials is that they claim millennials are bitches but they raised them, and now they bitch and whine until they're red in the second chin about the whiny children they raised.

My last "corporate" job was FedEx Freight, and I left in 2013.

Since then I've taken jobs of increasing responsibility and compensation at an academic non-profit, a political advocacy startup, and I'm currently at a small healthcare company.

Our latest batch of "professionals" are unable to think their way out of a paper bag. Whenever we usually come across a problem our rather small department of misfits and miscreants call around and get someone who can help ASAP. Everyone knows you can dick around as much as you want, but the work gets done and the bosses don't get called or we need to go through more bullshit training and "read and signs". Well our new batch of retards think the best answer to every problem is "I don't know, I was never told how to do it." First, your professional license has it stated that YOU KNOW HOW TO DO THAT. So your incompetent at your licensed profession. Second, your too dumb to call around for a senior staff member to come give you a hand. So in the past 6 months we have lost some professional responsibility which makes us all look like assholes AND have had to do different training sessions every week.


The only thing that defends them is the fact that the employer hasn't realized they either get people who stay for the diminishing benefit packages (which have been 1-upped by a competing employer who is looking to expand so we lost 4 people already), or stay for the security of being in a senior tenured position. Poor pay has guaranteed that the cream of the crop no longer apply to our facility.

I'm a bit torn on this.  On the one hand, that certainly isn't how I would have handled it- I would have a conversation about how I had a better job offer and this is what would be required for me to stay.

On the other hand, anyone who works in a place where they think they'll be fired over asking for a raise... they should quit anyway.  

I'm 32, and manage a lot of millennials.  While their motivations occasionally frustrate me (they're less likely to be motivated by money in my experience), its no worse than the bullshit from older generations, just different.

This,  I have done this. Got an offer for near identical work but for 15k more but liked where I was at. Asked for a raise they said nope so i split.

Not in this AO. There is a massive shortage of logistics / supply chain managers in this area. I am getting hit up damn near daily from recruiters and head hunters. 6 figure salaries for those jobs are pretty normal here in the northern KY /Louisville area.

I've been in IT and system administration for about 10 years. I now work for a company as a full-time consultant and engineer that specializes in large-scale clouds for big-name customers, primarily in the telecom and communications industry.  Prior to that I was employed by the second-largest shared webhosting corporation, where I was responsible for over 70gbps of north/south traffic to ISP peers and exponentially more in east/west.  Part of a team of four network engineers, I had the shared responsibility of maintaining a /13 of network space, over 350k arp, and 30,000 physical machines under one roof, as well as about one and a half dozen remote sites both domestically and abroad.

My core competencies are in large-scale traditional networks, and lately in emerging use cases for SDN technologies, but have a primary focus on Contrail/OpenContrail in that scene. I have dabbled in ACI, though but that product is largely still non-functional in mixed networks so I didn't retain much    I have solid Linux system administration skills, can work my way around most any kind of Unix-based environment, and have the ability to work through most all the aspects of a production cloud, either public or private.   In the past I have mixed in my social accumen and interpersonal skills to resolve company image and relationship issues where others have failed, smoothing things over as a technical on-site punching bag so the service contracts survive.  I also piloted the direction that the whole company now moves in as part of the original skunkworks team created to find a way to leverage our knowledge and come to market with something to compete with AWS and Azure.

I fall well within the range of typical salaries for my skills, which is around the 80-140k range.  This is what Amazon, Rackspace, Redhat, Microsoft, Proofpoint, and others would tend to pay for someone with my skills or skills adjusted for greater competencies in other areas.

That all being said, I am far from the smartest Millennial I know in IT, I have a lot to learn in the field and trade, and am far from the highest-paid Millennial in this field.   I have personal friends and coworkers that are so far and away better than I in these areas that they make me consider taking up a job cutting trees down instead.

Is that a sufficient resume and justification for you?

Meh I'd say you're wrong, but most of them are too busy working and being successful so you just dont see it.

I'm a cop with over 25 years experience and a fuck ton of specialized training.  I make less than that guy did before he asked for a raise.

Henderson, NV is starting their officers at about 60k. They're hiring a bunch. I know, I applied and have my physical test in the morning

I'm a millennial POS and I'm a big shot with a huge dong and live in a mansion....Gimme a break