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Posted: 9/20/2022 9:58:01 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The new host city isn't buying the ship. It's still up to the foundation that owns the ship to maintain it, just like the Lexington. No different than any big city making offers for a business to locate there with tax incentives, sometimes land and/or improvements in order to hopefully recoup it in other revenue paths and benefits to the area. Since you seem to have an axe to grind, I'd strongly suggest you contact your local city and/or county representatives if you are in one of the cities. Get the info from them on what the offered or proposals they've made. You can also contact the foundation directly - [email protected] Since when is inquiring about what it will cost my city having "an axe to grind"? You made your point well, though. It's a fact that the foundation has never generated enough revenue to maintain the ship. That's why it's in such sad shape overall and the state had to ante up $35 million for just the hull. Another inconvenient fact is no one to date has documented the yearly cost of adequately maintaining it. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 11:57:29 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Since when is inquiring about what it will cost my city having "an axe to grind"? You made your point well, though. It's a fact that the foundation has never generated enough revenue to maintain the ship. That's why it's in such sad shape overall and the state had to ante up $35 million for just the hull. Another inconvenient fact is no one to date has documented the yearly cost of adequately maintaining it. Keep in mind, many ships take care of themselves. The problem with the Texas is not management. It is location. Which is why she is not going back to San Jacinto. It is a fair bet that in a good location, she will become self funding. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 12:25:53 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Keep in mind, many ships take care of themselves. The problem with the Texas is not management. It is location. Which is why she is not going back to San Jacinto. It is a fair bet that in a good location, she will become self funding. Have you visited it recently and seen the condition of the interior and topside? I love the Texas. I hope it's preserved for another 100 years. I hope tens of thousands get to visit her and appreciate her. But any responsible tax payer has a duty to know what it will cost their city because if any city can't afford her, she'll go deeper into the shlitter than she already is. The "problem" with the Texas is the foundation can't afford to maintain her, and no one to date can state factually what that expense will be. 1. What is an accurate estimate of the expense to properly restore her interior and upper exterior? 2. How many visitors per year will it take to maintain her once she is properly restored? |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 12:32:49 PM EDT
[#4]
One guy in a video explained how much things cost in a ballpark estimate. That 35 million is damn near gone as is.
He said it was something like 12 million to move her with permits and insurance. Then threw some 1989 numbers in from the last drydock. You could probably blow 100 million to do it and make her look good and be open like the NJ. Even that is just patch job and paint. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 12:37:38 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One guy in a video explained how much things cost in a ballpark estimate. That 35 million is damn near gone as is. He said it was something like 12 million to move her with permits and insurance. Then threw some 1989 numbers in from the last drydock. You could probably blow 100 million to do it and make her look good and be open like the NJ. Even that is just patch job and paint. There it is.  |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 12:48:05 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you visited it recently and seen the condition of the interior and topside? I love the Texas. I hope it's preserved for another 100 years. I hope tens of thousands get to visit her and appreciate her. But any responsible tax payer has a duty to know what it will cost their city because if any city can't afford her, she'll go deeper into the shlitter than she already is. The "problem" with the Texas is the foundation can't afford to maintain her, and no one to date can state factually what that expense will be. 1. What is an accurate estimate of the expense to properly restore her interior and upper exterior? 2. How many visitors per year will it take to maintain her once she is properly restored? Your questions are fair. The data is not released yet because it was a process where the various locations submitted their proposals. And I am intimately familiar with her condition. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 12:50:19 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Keep in mind, many ships take care of themselves. The problem with the Texas is not management. It is location. Which is why she is not going back to San Jacinto. It is a fair bet that in a good location, she will become self funding. It would be awesome if they could send it to San Diego, CA. It would make a great attraction next to the USS Midway museum.   
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Posted: 9/20/2022 12:58:14 PM EDT
[#8]
Instead of sending money overseas we should take every surviving battleship that still floats and restore them into shape enough to sail up and down whichever seaboard they are on as traveling museums. I love these old ships that served their country and if we can have unlimited funds for foreign countries, we should be able to throw a few billion restoring and crewing these parts of our history.
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Posted: 9/20/2022 1:24:53 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your questions are fair. The data is not released yet because it was a process where the various locations submitted their proposals. And I am intimately familiar with her condition. Thanks for the response. I'm not clear what "data is not released yet" and why. Have the various proposals been submitted, and are they not public record? Thanks again |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 1:26:34 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryWhat is the procedure for getting the keel of a ship positioned properly onto the supports in the drydock? I'm assuming said positioning is pretty critical. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 1:26:58 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It would be awesome if they could send it to San Diego, CA. It would make a great attraction next to the USS Midway museum. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/42/f4/43/42f44396212c3a0227ae795c70572db8.jpg https://americanbutler.ru/uploads/images/museums/san-diego/uss-midway/uss-midway-museum-san-diego-01.jpg https://image.kkday.com/v2/image/get/s1.kkday.com/product_31390/20191017020508_Q1ZqK/jpg The Texas is not leaving the State of Texas. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 1:27:56 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for the response. I'm not clear what "data is not released yet" and why. Have the various proposals been submitted, and are they not public record? Thanks again Yes and they are currently not public. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 1:34:55 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes and they are currently not public. Are you at liberty to disclose what cities have submitted proposals? |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 1:40:03 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you at liberty to disclose what cities have submitted proposals? Right now, it is public knowledge that Galveston, Baytown and Beaumont are being considered |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 2:02:43 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right now, it is public knowledge that Galveston, Baytown and Beaumont are being considered Thanks, but that's not what I asked. Has any city in Texas "submitted a proposal" (not expressed interest)? If so, who? |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 2:13:08 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks, but that's not what I asked. Has any city in Texas "submitted a proposal" (not expressed interest)? If so, who? I know what you are asking. (I even understand why) the best source (the most up to date information that is accurate) will be the Foundations official website. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 2:20:08 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Several folks knowledgeable about the situation have stated that it would be cheaper to build a 1:1 working clone from scratch. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I wonder how much money it would take to restore her to fighting condition Several folks knowledgeable about the situation have stated that it would be cheaper to build a 1:1 working clone from scratch. That would make sense since she's rotting from the inside out from decades of being flooded with salt water as ballast. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 2:21:36 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know what you are asking. (I even understand why) the best source (the most up to date information that is accurate) will be the Foundations official website. You said yes, proposals had been submitted by Texas cities but they weren't public. Is that true or not? Not bustinyerballs, but trying to get some facts and truthful statements about this situation. Last update on the Foundation site is 8/31/22 but nothing about proposals or their status. It's just this kind of doubletalk and smoke and mirrors that will continue to cripple the future of this historic relic. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 2:44:09 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You said yes, proposals had been submitted by Texas cities but they weren't public. Is that true or not? Not bustinyerballs, but trying to get some facts and truthful statements about this situation. Last update on the Foundation site is 8/31/22 but nothing about proposals or their status. It's just this kind of doubletalk and smoke and mirrors that will continue to cripple the future of this historic relic. A few years ago the foundation solicited proposals. There are currently three places that have submitted proposals that are being considered. Galveston, Baytown and Beaumont. I don’t know how to be more clear or direct. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 5:24:17 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you visited it recently and seen the condition of the interior and topside? I love the Texas. I hope it's preserved for another 100 years. I hope tens of thousands get to visit her and appreciate her. But any responsible tax payer has a duty to know what it will cost their city because if any city can't afford her, she'll go deeper into the shlitter than she already is. The "problem" with the Texas is the foundation can't afford to maintain her, and no one to date can state factually what that expense will be. 1. What is an accurate estimate of the expense to properly restore her interior and upper exterior? 2. How many visitors per year will it take to maintain her once she is properly restored? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Keep in mind, many ships take care of themselves. The problem with the Texas is not management. It is location. Which is why she is not going back to San Jacinto. It is a fair bet that in a good location, she will become self funding. Have you visited it recently and seen the condition of the interior and topside? I love the Texas. I hope it's preserved for another 100 years. I hope tens of thousands get to visit her and appreciate her. But any responsible tax payer has a duty to know what it will cost their city because if any city can't afford her, she'll go deeper into the shlitter than she already is. The "problem" with the Texas is the foundation can't afford to maintain her, and no one to date can state factually what that expense will be. 1. What is an accurate estimate of the expense to properly restore her interior and upper exterior? 2. How many visitors per year will it take to maintain her once she is properly restored? You're all over the place. The first issue is, you seem to be working under the assumption that the host city will assume full responsibility for the USS Texas. I have yet to see any mention of that anywhere, nor have I seen anything suggesting the host city will be obligated to cover any shortfalls. Secondly, you don't seem to acknowledge that the State of Texas still owns the ship. They can say they don't want to pay for this or that, but the buck ultimately stops with them. Also, what a government is or isn't willing to do pretty much changes with each legislative session. Furthermore, I think we need to put these price tags in perspective. In Texas, suburbs routinely spend $50M+ for high school football stadiums that host 5 or so games a year. It costs over $1M per mile to resurface highways. Building a new airport terminal costs billions (KC is spending $1.5B, San Diego is spending $2.6B.) Based on current trends, many (most?) of these things will be replaced by the time USS Texas finds her way back to a dry dock again in a few decades. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 5:59:11 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It would be awesome if they could send it to San Diego, CA. It would make a great attraction next to the USS Midway museum. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/42/f4/43/42f44396212c3a0227ae795c70572db8.jpg https://americanbutler.ru/uploads/images/museums/san-diego/uss-midway/uss-midway-museum-san-diego-01.jpg https://image.kkday.com/v2/image/get/s1.kkday.com/product_31390/20191017020508_Q1ZqK/jpg |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 7:53:42 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is the procedure for getting the keel of a ship positioned properly onto the supports in the drydock? I'm assuming said positioning is pretty critical. The dry-docking plans are usually part of a warship's original blueprints, with primary and secondary keel block locations noted so that the blocks lie beneath structural frames. The shipyard had divers in the water, confirming that Texas was settling onto the blocks as designed. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 8:34:00 PM EDT
[#23]
when I was there last week on vacation I went on a dolphin tour and they took us right past the aft of the ship.
big and rusty. very very impressive.  Battleship Texas by Chris B, on Flickr Battleship Texas by Chris B, on Flickr
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Posted: 9/20/2022 8:38:39 PM EDT
[#24]
a couple more
 20220914-_MG_4471 by Chris B, on Flickr 20220914-_MG_4469 by Chris B, on Flickr 20220914-_MG_4468 by Chris B, on Flickrand a dolphin...becuase reasons...  Dolphin by Chris B, on Flickr
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Posted: 9/20/2022 8:41:58 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The dry-docking plans are usually part of a warship's original blueprints, with primary and secondary keel block locations noted so that the blocks lie beneath structural frames. The shipyard had divers in the water, confirming that Texas was settling onto the blocks as designed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What is the procedure for getting the keel of a ship positioned properly onto the supports in the drydock? I'm assuming said positioning is pretty critical. The dry-docking plans are usually part of a warship's original blueprints, with primary and secondary keel block locations noted so that the blocks lie beneath structural frames. The shipyard had divers in the water, confirming that Texas was settling onto the blocks as designed. Thank you. The diving part is a job I wouldn't be interested in. |
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Posted: 9/23/2022 12:07:00 AM EDT
[#26]
Moving a Bofors 40 mm Anti-Aircraft Gun
 Battleship Texas - Moving a Bofors 40 mm Anti-Aircraft Gun |
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Posted: 9/23/2022 12:20:39 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Part of me wishes they would restore it to its original (pre-retrofit/WW2) configuration https://www.thoughtco.com/thmb/Up5ypUBcxhKHP9OYnYL_28rylOc=/2000x1388/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/uss-texas-1917-1e6c430876494ac99343b89a866d8982.jpg |
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Posted: 9/23/2022 12:25:23 AM EDT
[#28]
Even good alloys of steel don't last long in those areas when exposed to the elements that close to numerous chemical plants and refineries. I replace structural and plate steel all the time that had a 40 year life span on the design and it never ever makes that. C276 and other high nickle alloys, monel and incanel and such help. But it's all temporary.
Baytown and Beaumont won't be any better than were she was, Galveston not much different and more explosed to the sea. |
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Posted: 9/23/2022 1:06:29 AM EDT
[#29]
Was on it back in the early 70's. I have pictures somewhere. Great ship.
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Posted: 9/23/2022 1:41:47 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In several posts I've made it clear I'm not asking what it will cost the hosting city to prepare, maintain, and market the docking site and facilities. What will it cost the taxpayers of a city to maintain the ship since the foundation has never generated enough revenue to maintain the ship. The State's $35 million is just for the drydock/hull work. What does it cost per year to maintain the ship? Lot of "may's", "maybe's", "possibly's", and "hopefully's". Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What your asking is what each city that wants it is proposing. Different dollar amounts for each city. I have seen estimates from $10 million to $30 million. You will need to get a site for the ship, maybe pay for the ship to get to the site, get the site prepped, build a visitors center, a way for visitors to get to that site, and possibly upkeep for that site. So while a city may pay $20 million to get the ship there, and say a million a year in site maintenance and other associated costs, the economic benefit is hopefully going to be much greater than that cost. As mentioned above, people do travel to areas to see these ships, and that brings money that would not come there otherwise. In several posts I've made it clear I'm not asking what it will cost the hosting city to prepare, maintain, and market the docking site and facilities. What will it cost the taxpayers of a city to maintain the ship since the foundation has never generated enough revenue to maintain the ship. The State's $35 million is just for the drydock/hull work. What does it cost per year to maintain the ship? Lot of "may's", "maybe's", "possibly's", and "hopefully's". Have you not read anything posted here about that? the Ship is going to be self maintained by tourist money visiting, not by taxpayer money to keep up with the maintenance. But I think you already know that, you seem to be very argumentative here for some reason and "asking questions" that you can figure out on your own by doing your own research instead of arguing "im not getting answers!" here. You ever stop and think that people here dont have that answer you seek? Instead of acting like they do have the answer and are just keeping it from you. But the future of the Texas doesnt depend on you supporting it or not anyways. How come you haven't called the Texas foundation with those questions? |
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Posted: 9/23/2022 1:44:12 AM EDT
[#31]
Here is a silly question and forgive me I'm not very familiar with Texas. Is there any way to move USS Texas into fresh water? Is there a river in Texas that she can go up?
20 |
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Posted: 9/23/2022 4:20:04 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here is a silly question and forgive me I'm not very familiar with Texas. Is there any way to move USS Texas into fresh water? Is there a river in Texas that she can go up? 20 None of the rivers in Texas are navigable very far upstream. |
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Posted: 9/23/2022 4:24:00 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here is a silly question and forgive me I'm not very familiar with Texas. Is there any way to move USS Texas into fresh water? Is there a river in Texas that she can go up? 20 What fucked this poor boat over the decades was the decision to flood her and sink her into mud. |
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Posted: 9/23/2022 4:47:46 PM EDT
[#34]
  
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Posted: 9/23/2022 4:51:34 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdXhnecX0AA6bIR?format=jpg&name=large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdXhnecWQAADTTo?format=jpg&name=large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdXhneYWIAAJPZv?format=jpg&name=large |
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Posted: 9/23/2022 8:50:37 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: San Jac was probably the best option as far as that went, just off the Houston Ship Channel. And anything in or down-channel from Houston is a shithole that nobody wants to visit. What fucked this poor boat over the decades was the decision to flood her and sink her into mud. The Texas was not flooded, nor was she sunk in the mud. The Texas has been afloat, in her slip, since 1948. (minus two years away for repairs 88-90) and now. She certainly took on water and hit bottom many times over the years, but again, the was afloat and that was and is the goal. Here is a cool timelapse from 2016 that clearly show her afloat.  USS Texas Timelapse 3 |
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Posted: 9/23/2022 9:19:47 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Texas was not flooded, nor was she sunk in the mud. The Texas has been afloat, in her slip, since 1948. (minus two years away for repairs 88-90) and now. She certainly took on water and hit bottom many times over the years, but again, the was afloat and that was and is the goal. Here is a cool timelapse from 2016 that clearly show her afloat.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF5ZxVt1_1oIn the way back her bilges were flooded with brackish water and she was settled on the mud. It was realized that this was an epically bad decision and she was pumped out, but the damage was done. There's a video talking about it on YouTube and it was cited as one of the reasons the last dry-docking was so over budget. |
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Posted: 9/23/2022 9:51:48 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In the way back her bilges were flooded with brackish water and she was settled on the mud. It was realized that this was an epically bad decision and she was pumped out, but the damage was done. There's a video talking about it on YouTube and it was cited as one of the reasons the last dry-docking was so over budget. Sort of. She was flooded to settle her in, but over the years most of that was pumped out. Hell, she still had lots of fuel in her until they took it out in the 88 dry docking. (The Arizona, which was sunk in 41, and is similar to the Texas, is still leaking oil) She has certainly been taking on water at an increasing rate, and the water where she has been since 48, is brackish. And there is no doubt that she has "sunk" in her slip and even at the lowest tides, can hit bottom, but the Texas has been somewhat to mostly afloat since 1948. After she returned to her slip in 90, she has been "almost always" afloat. |
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Posted: 10/2/2022 11:33:40 AM EDT
[#39]
        
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Posted: 10/2/2022 11:40:05 AM EDT
[#40]
They got a lot of work ahead of them......
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Posted: 10/2/2022 3:47:38 PM EDT
[#41]
What is the estimated restoral time on this?
I think even Scotty would shake his head on this one even if he did multiply his restoral time by a factor of three.   Listen to Scotty |
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Posted: 10/2/2022 3:57:43 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is the estimated restoral time on this? I think even Scotty would shake his head on this one even if he did multiply his restoral time by a factor of three. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xRqXYsksFgRestoration time? Infinite Dry dock time? 12 to 14 months |
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Posted: 10/2/2022 4:26:43 PM EDT
[#43]
Not an expert on ship hull repair but those ribs look completely rusted through.
I certainly hope she can be restored instead of ending up like the SS United States in a sort of permanent limbo between restoration and the scrap yard. |
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Posted: 10/2/2022 8:09:38 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not an expert on ship hull repair but those ribs look completely rusted through. I certainly hope she can be restored instead of ending up like the SS United States in a sort of permanent limbo between restoration and the scrap yard. Those “Ribs” are the torpedo blisters added much later in her career. For the most part, the internal parts of her actual hull have been patched up fairly well. |
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Posted: 10/3/2022 4:42:07 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those “Ribs” are the torpedo blisters added much later in her career. For the most part, the internal parts of her actual hull have been patched up fairly well. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Not an expert on ship hull repair but those ribs look completely rusted through. I certainly hope she can be restored instead of ending up like the SS United States in a sort of permanent limbo between restoration and the scrap yard. Those “Ribs” are the torpedo blisters added much later in her career. For the most part, the internal parts of her actual hull have been patched up fairly well. Is the intent to take all that off and go back the original hull configuration then or try to rebuild it all? |
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Posted: 10/3/2022 9:11:20 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is the intent to take all that off and go back the original hull configuration then or try to rebuild it all? yes |
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Posted: 10/3/2022 9:32:54 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It would be awesome if they could send it to San Diego, CA. F' That  |
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Posted: 10/3/2022 2:42:23 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is the intent to take all that off and go back the original hull configuration then or try to rebuild it all? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Not an expert on ship hull repair but those ribs look completely rusted through. I certainly hope she can be restored instead of ending up like the SS United States in a sort of permanent limbo between restoration and the scrap yard. Those “Ribs” are the torpedo blisters added much later in her career. For the most part, the internal parts of her actual hull have been patched up fairly well. Is the intent to take all that off and go back the original hull configuration then or try to rebuild it all? Their YouTube channel said they are removing the torpedo blisters below the waterline so she retains her WW2 appearance, but without the problems caused by the things. |
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Posted: 10/5/2022 4:09:55 PM EDT
[#49]
Battleship Texas - Tow to Dry Dock 2022
 Tow to Dry Dock 2022 - Battleship Texas |
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Posted: 10/5/2022 4:16:03 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryIt was a magnificent day! To be at sea with a Dreadnought! |
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