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Posted: 11/19/2017 8:22:20 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wrong. Each aircraft has a single weight setting. Pilots know to be at or under it. Occasionally that will change based of emergencies. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Also they declare their weight when they trap, Let's the arresting gear dudes set how much tension they need. Each aircraft has a single weight setting. Pilots know to be at or under it. Occasionally that will change based of emergencies. |
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Posted: 11/19/2017 8:31:31 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How does it work for a super hornet set up as a refueler vs "normal"? Straightforward, really. 
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Posted: 11/19/2017 8:34:15 PM EDT
[#3]
Just imagine doing that work at night!
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Posted: 11/19/2017 8:37:44 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would bet a nigh time carrier landing would pucker you right up, no matter how many times you've done it.  PBS: Carrier - Landing on a Pitching Deck Pt. 1  PBS: Carrier - Landing on a Pitching Deck Pt. 2 |
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Posted: 11/19/2017 8:44:09 PM EDT
[#5]
Great videos. Carriers are more than just pilots and planes. It's the mechanics, the flight deck crew, virtually everyone working in harmony to keep the machine working. The loss of the trained personnel at Midway permanently crippled the IJN in WW II.
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Posted: 11/19/2017 9:19:05 PM EDT
[#6]
Just watched this video....
 Failed To Load Title Who's the green shirt guy in the hole? What's his job? 
That looks like it could be a pretty good adrenaline rush right there. |
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Posted: 11/19/2017 9:32:03 PM EDT
[#7]
I was an Avation Electronics Tech on EA-6B's, and worked the flight deck as a "final checker", ( white shirt). Fun job, had to keep head on a swivel at all times.
VAQ-134, Constellation & Carl Vinson, 1980's. |
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Posted: 11/19/2017 9:41:48 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is there something special or significant about that particular Tomcat ('200' with the Jolly Rodger on the tail)? VFA-2 100 - 1XX VFA-137 200 - 2XX VFA-192 300 - 3XX VFA-34 400 - 4XX VAQ-136 500 - 5XX VAW-113 600 - 6XX HSC-4 610 - 6XX HSM-78 700 - 7XX The C-2 COD uses a two digit number, VRC-30 starts at 20 and goes up to 30 (if need be). 000 = Admirals plane X00 = CAG (Commodore = Navy Captain) X01 = CO X02 = XO And so on. |
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Posted: 11/19/2017 9:51:52 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who's the green shirt guy in the hole?  Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 11/19/2017 10:22:42 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just imagine doing that work at night! This is what its like  Aircraft Carrier USS Carl Vinson Night Flight Operations |
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Posted: 11/19/2017 10:36:14 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty cool videos. Hopefully one of our resident squids will be along and explain some of what is going on. The big funny grey noisy thing is leaving the big boat in a big hurry. |
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Posted: 11/19/2017 10:57:31 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some of my best Navy memories are of doing that same work at night. This is what its like  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj97iN-6KEAQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Just imagine doing that work at night! This is what its like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj97iN-6KEAI was senior plane captain on night shift for about four months when we went on WESTPAC. It’s just as exciting at night, only difference is you REALLY gotta be aware of the aircraft dance. You don’t have light that is worth a fuck, and believe it or not you don’t always hear the aircraft coming up on you and around you with all the associated noise. You do learn to go by the changing tone of the prop and turbine sound as things are throttling up, cutting down, making a turn etc. It was also fun having a couple new guys with a death grip on the back of my belt while dragging them around the flight deck to get them used to night ops.
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Posted: 11/19/2017 10:59:42 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just watched this video.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-hefIkrf2w
Who's the green shirt guy in the hole? What's his job? https://i.imgur.com/uqQmfnE.jpg That looks like it could be a pretty good adrenaline rush right there. |
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Posted: 11/19/2017 11:29:45 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It sure was. It was very easy on knees and boots. Did you see it after they recoated it? it was like one grit sandpaper and felt like it too... I worked as an AT on the EA6B. Loudest pig in the sky. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I was a PC for a bit. My first day as a "trainee" on the flight deck landed me in the net. The JFK during the first Gulf War had zero non skid. In fact we had to fly contractors out to the boat during desert shield because it was so bad. Did you see it after they recoated it? it was like one grit sandpaper and felt like it too... I worked as an AT on the EA6B. Loudest pig in the sky. New non skid is the most abrasive substance known to man. Loudest place on the planet also. I spend half my day apologizing for asking people to repeat themselves. Time to get hearing aids I guess. That's said, I have no ragrets. |
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Posted: 11/20/2017 12:18:49 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes. New non skid is the most abrasive substance known to man. Loudest place on the planet also. I spend half my day apologizing for asking people to repeat themselves. Time to get hearing aids I guess. That's said, I have no ragrets. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I was a PC for a bit. My first day as a "trainee" on the flight deck landed me in the net. The JFK during the first Gulf War had zero non skid. In fact we had to fly contractors out to the boat during desert shield because it was so bad. Did you see it after they recoated it? it was like one grit sandpaper and felt like it too... I worked as an AT on the EA6B. Loudest pig in the sky. New non skid is the most abrasive substance known to man. Loudest place on the planet also. I spend half my day apologizing for asking people to repeat themselves. Time to get hearing aids I guess. That's said, I have no ragrets. I would contend that the deck directly beneath the machine that removes nonskid is the loudest place on earth. Makes listening to jet engines sound quiet. |
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Posted: 11/20/2017 8:35:09 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some of my best Navy memories are of doing that same work at night. This is what its like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj97iN-6KEAWhat is the average time between launches on a single catapult? |
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Posted: 11/20/2017 10:09:21 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are those light batteries rechargeable or disposable? What is the average time between launches on a single catapult? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Some of my best Navy memories are of doing that same work at night. This is what its like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj97iN-6KEAWhat is the average time between launches on a single catapult? Regarding launches per cat, I never really timed it and don't know what the "official" numbers are. The "bow cats" (1 & 2) were typically not used as that's where aircraft are stored and general maintenance performed. The "waist cats" across the angle deck is where launch and recovery took place, at a "regular" cadence we would put one in the air every ten minutes or so iirc, take that with a grain of salt as its a memory from nearly 30 years ago and I wasn't timing anything. To give you a better idea of the pace look at the recovery part of the video, you can see the next 1-2 aircraft in line already in pattern on the horizon. |
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Posted: 11/20/2017 4:28:13 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bold part for certain is true I would contend that the deck directly beneath the machine that removes nonskid is the loudest place on earth. Makes listening to jet engines sound quiet. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I was a PC for a bit. My first day as a "trainee" on the flight deck landed me in the net. The JFK during the first Gulf War had zero non skid. In fact we had to fly contractors out to the boat during desert shield because it was so bad. Did you see it after they recoated it? it was like one grit sandpaper and felt like it too... I worked as an AT on the EA6B. Loudest pig in the sky. New non skid is the most abrasive substance known to man. Loudest place on the planet also. I spend half my day apologizing for asking people to repeat themselves. Time to get hearing aids I guess. That's said, I have no ragrets. I would contend that the deck directly beneath the machine that removes nonskid is the loudest place on earth. Makes listening to jet engines sound quiet. |
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Posted: 11/20/2017 7:13:13 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup. I forgot about those grinders. Add to that my berthing area was directly below the spot where most of the aircraft would slam down on the flight deck. I was on the top bunk and directly under the a/c vent. It was like dropping a pickup from a crane onto a platform just above your head. For years afterward I could sleep through anything. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I was a PC for a bit. My first day as a "trainee" on the flight deck landed me in the net. The JFK during the first Gulf War had zero non skid. In fact we had to fly contractors out to the boat during desert shield because it was so bad. Did you see it after they recoated it? it was like one grit sandpaper and felt like it too... I worked as an AT on the EA6B. Loudest pig in the sky. New non skid is the most abrasive substance known to man. Loudest place on the planet also. I spend half my day apologizing for asking people to repeat themselves. Time to get hearing aids I guess. That's said, I have no ragrets. I would contend that the deck directly beneath the machine that removes nonskid is the loudest place on earth. Makes listening to jet engines sound quiet. |
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Posted: 11/20/2017 7:36:47 PM EDT
[#20]
Thanks to this thread I wasted over an hour watching launching and recovery videos. And I learned about the hold back bar, never knew what the heck it was.
Question...how does the hold back bar actually release? |
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Posted: 11/20/2017 9:17:07 PM EDT
[#21]
The US Navy has no peers when it comes to carrier operations. Then, they have had
quite a bit of practice. They make it look easy. |
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Posted: 11/20/2017 10:24:18 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks to this thread I wasted over an hour watching launching and recovery videos. And I learned about the hold back bar, never knew what the heck it was. Question...how does the hold back bar actually release? 
The hold back has a tension bar in it. One end is hooked into the strut and the other end into the hold back. When they launch the tension bar breaks. They're color coded according to aircraft. 
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Posted: 11/20/2017 10:43:56 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://www.uss-bennington.org/pics/phz-62-TensionBar.jpg The hold back has a tension bar in it. One end is hooked into the strut and the other end into the hold back. When they launch the tension bar breaks. They're color coded according to aircraft. http://slideplayer.com/9410634/28/images/5/Critical+Safety+Item+Holdback+Bar+Release+Element.jpg http://www.maritime.org/doc/catapult/img/fig3-14.jpg |
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Posted: 11/20/2017 11:17:05 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://www.uss-bennington.org/pics/phz-62-TensionBar.jpg The hold back has a tension bar in it. One end is hooked into the strut and the other end into the hold back. When they launch the tension bar breaks. They're color coded according to aircraft. http://slideplayer.com/9410634/28/images/5/Critical+Safety+Item+Holdback+Bar+Release+Element.jpg http://www.maritime.org/doc/catapult/img/fig3-14.jpg |
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Posted: 11/20/2017 11:38:59 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any idea what the cost is per tension bar? Going a little further down that rabbit hole, what is the estimated cost per launch and recovery in consumables? |
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Posted: 11/20/2017 11:52:24 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
watch the beginning of the second video and you'll see 7 guys in a row miss their landing... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gGMI8d3vLs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0yj70QbBzgQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I would bet a nigh time carrier landing would pucker you right up, no matter how many times you've done it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gGMI8d3vLs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0yj70QbBzg |
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Posted: 11/21/2017 12:26:31 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That second video was exponential pucker factor. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would bet a nigh time carrier landing would pucker you right up, no matter how many times you've done it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gGMI8d3vLs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0yj70QbBzgFirst video was nice to see Jolley Roger Super Hornet D model. 
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Posted: 11/21/2017 12:45:32 AM EDT
[#28]
You know, being a UH-60 crew chief is awesome and comes with its risks. But you deck crews...man, you guys have an awesome job! My HGU-56/P is off to you! You guys have to have your shit wired tight. Hopefully one day I'll get to do deck quals.
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Posted: 11/21/2017 12:46:26 AM EDT
[#29]
It seemed like they where just routine takeoffs , I wonder how
fast they could up the tempo when needed ? really cool op thanks for posting . |
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Posted: 11/21/2017 1:08:41 AM EDT
[#30]
OST for cool shit.
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Posted: 11/21/2017 1:29:42 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You know, being a UH-60 crew chief is awesome and comes with its risks. But you deck crews...man, you guys have an awesome job! My HGU-56/P is off to you! You guys have to have your shit wired tight. Hopefully one day I'll get to do deck quals. |
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Posted: 11/21/2017 1:34:52 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No difference. Get rid of the gas so that you're light enough to land, but not to soon. Also don't make the flight deck wait on you. Also don't be heavy, and don't dump fuel on the flight deck or the boss will tear you a new one. Straightforward, really. 9,000 lbs bringback capability. |
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Posted: 11/21/2017 1:39:33 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are those light batteries rechargeable or disposable? If you are someplace where you have the ability to have a charger then you get rechargeable batteries. If not you use alkaline D-cell batteries. Most of the flight deck flashlights have gone LED with rechargeable ni-cad batteries. |
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Posted: 11/21/2017 1:48:58 AM EDT
[#34]
Pure badass and unadulterated power, and an amazing symphony of movement.
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Posted: 11/21/2017 1:53:29 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It seemed like they where just routine takeoffs , I wonder how fast they could up the tempo when needed ? really cool op thanks for posting . During real ops no one would be fucking around wearing a go-pro if they were directly involved with the operations. When I was on the Stennis they were using cats one, two and three to launch planes off during OEF. The F-14's and F-18's went off the waist cats, the EA-6B and the E-2C went off the number 2 cat. Cat one had planes either parked on it or planes that were getting ready to launch on it. Planes were getting off the deck in the 20-30 second range. About 32 launches off the deck in about 15 minutes. |
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Posted: 11/21/2017 1:54:50 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As your equivalent from a navy stance, I'd trade you any day. It's mostly because we all think the other guy's job is cooler, but flight deck ops in a helo squadron aren't as cool as they look. Just like your job.
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Posted: 11/21/2017 1:56:47 AM EDT
[#37]
Brings back memories. I was a purple shirt (fuels) on the USS Valley Forge ‘68-70.
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Posted: 11/21/2017 1:59:00 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Roger that. First video was nice to see Jolley Roger Super Hornet D model. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/US_Navy_111017-N-AU622-089_An_F-A-18F_Super_Hornet_assigned_to_the_Jolly_Rogers_of_Strike_Fighter_Squadron_%28VFA%29_103_launches_from_the_flight_deck.jpg |
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Posted: 11/21/2017 2:04:22 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://www.uss-bennington.org/pics/phz-62-TensionBar.jpg The hold back has a tension bar in it. One end is hooked into the strut and the other end into the hold back. When they launch the tension bar breaks. They're color coded according to aircraft. http://slideplayer.com/9410634/28/images/5/Critical+Safety+Item+Holdback+Bar+Release+Element.jpg http://www.maritime.org/doc/catapult/img/fig3-14.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Thanks to this thread I wasted over an hour watching launching and recovery videos. And I learned about the hold back bar, never knew what the heck it was. Question...how does the hold back bar actually release? The hold back has a tension bar in it. One end is hooked into the strut and the other end into the hold back. When they launch the tension bar breaks. They're color coded according to aircraft. http://slideplayer.com/9410634/28/images/5/Critical+Safety+Item+Holdback+Bar+Release+Element.jpg http://www.maritime.org/doc/catapult/img/fig3-14.jpg I guess I'm just not really sure what they do or how they do it. -K |
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Posted: 11/21/2017 2:13:37 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Those were all CQ (carrier qualifications) ops. During real ops no one would be fucking around wearing a go-pro if they were directly involved with the operations. When I was on the Stennis they were using cats one, two and three to launch planes off during OEF. The F-14's and F-18's went off the waist cats, the EA-6B and the E-2C went off the number 2 cat. Cat one had planes either parked on it or planes that were getting ready to launch on it. https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-3b289e8d249beb9b9c1a9cf911762431-c Planes were getting off the deck in the 20-30 second range. About 32 launches off the deck in about 15 minutes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It seemed like they where just routine takeoffs , I wonder how fast they could up the tempo when needed ? really cool op thanks for posting . During real ops no one would be fucking around wearing a go-pro if they were directly involved with the operations. When I was on the Stennis they were using cats one, two and three to launch planes off during OEF. The F-14's and F-18's went off the waist cats, the EA-6B and the E-2C went off the number 2 cat. Cat one had planes either parked on it or planes that were getting ready to launch on it. https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-3b289e8d249beb9b9c1a9cf911762431-c Planes were getting off the deck in the 20-30 second range. About 32 launches off the deck in about 15 minutes. The deck at night is crazy. Head on a swivel is an understatement shit will sneak up on you more than in the day. Sketchiest night was during work ups on the edge of a tropical storm the rest of the fleet went around and under. It was like being on a roller coaster. Had to launch an emergency A6 tanker for the 2 tankers that were running out of gas we had so many failed traps. During the respot and the end of the night we almost lost a Tomcat over the fantail. Anyway on to the tempo. In the gulf 96’ during some war games we launched 72 birds in 30 min. It strangely quiet for a while waiting on them to come back. When prepped for it a CVN can spew some hate. It was extremely unusual to be running 3 elevators during launch (emptying the hanager). That was the most hectic launch sequence followed by the most hectic landing sequence of my time in. |
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Posted: 11/21/2017 8:01:47 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As your equivalent from a navy stance, I'd trade you any day. It's mostly because we all think the other guy's job is cooler, but flight deck ops in a helo squadron aren't as cool as they look. Just like your job. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You know, being a UH-60 crew chief is awesome and comes with its risks. But you deck crews...man, you guys have an awesome job! My HGU-56/P is off to you! You guys have to have your shit wired tight. Hopefully one day I'll get to do deck quals. |
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Posted: 11/21/2017 9:31:22 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Roger that. First video was nice to see Jolley Roger Super Hornet D model. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/US_Navy_111017-N-AU622-089_An_F-A-18F_Super_Hornet_assigned_to_the_Jolly_Rogers_of_Strike_Fighter_Squadron_%28VFA%29_103_launches_from_the_flight_deck.jpg 
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Posted: 11/21/2017 9:37:23 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It seemed like they where just routine takeoffs , I wonder how fast they could up the tempo when needed ? really cool op thanks for posting . I'm pretty sure we launched birds at a faster pace than they do in the video but I could be wrong. We also had more planes on the ship back in the day. A normal launch evolution (if I remember right, '77-81) was about 45 minutes - That was pre-flight walk around with the aircrew, start up and power up checks. Booting up the INS Inertial Navigation System was the most time consuming. In the Gulf of Sidra In August of 1981, the evening of the first Libyan shoot-down, some F-4's from the Forrestal were mis-identified. General Quarters was called and we launched every Tomcat as fast as we could. The preflight consisted of pulling the the safety pins from landing gear and tail hook. My partner and I launched a VF-41 bird at the waist cats, some trouble shooters from VF-41 launched one of our birds at the bow. We also had 5 minute and 2 minute alerts. The aircrew would power up the bird, do all of the pre-flight checks, lock in the INS, shut down the engines and keep the electrical cable and huffer connected. For a 5 minute alert the aircrew would wait in the ready room, for the 2 minute alert the crew would stay in the bird. |
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Posted: 11/21/2017 10:19:09 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No need to dump fuel or ordnance with the Superhornet. 9,000 lbs bringback capability. |
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Posted: 11/21/2017 10:19:58 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Roger that. First video was nice to see Jolley Roger Super Hornet D model. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/US_Navy_111017-N-AU622-089_An_F-A-18F_Super_Hornet_assigned_to_the_Jolly_Rogers_of_Strike_Fighter_Squadron_%28VFA%29_103_launches_from_the_flight_deck.jpg
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Posted: 11/24/2017 2:46:24 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just so I'm understanding - does the tension bar break every time the aircraft is launched? I guess I'm just not really sure what they do or how they do it. -K Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks to this thread I wasted over an hour watching launching and recovery videos. And I learned about the hold back bar, never knew what the heck it was. Question...how does the hold back bar actually release? The hold back has a tension bar in it. One end is hooked into the strut and the other end into the hold back. When they launch the tension bar breaks. They're color coded according to aircraft. http://slideplayer.com/9410634/28/images/5/Critical+Safety+Item+Holdback+Bar+Release+Element.jpg http://www.maritime.org/doc/catapult/img/fig3-14.jpg I guess I'm just not really sure what they do or how they do it. -K |
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Posted: 11/24/2017 3:32:10 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As your equivalent from a navy stance, I'd trade you any day. It's mostly because we all think the other guy's job is cooler, but flight deck ops in a helo squadron aren't as cool as they look. Just like your job. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You know, being a UH-60 crew chief is awesome and comes with its risks. But you deck crews...man, you guys have an awesome job! My HGU-56/P is off to you! You guys have to have your shit wired tight. Hopefully one day I'll get to do deck quals. Almost forgot a surreal night in a typhoon when my section had duty. Was ordered to go topside (thank God) and secure rotor tie downs that were popping loose. That sometimes required climbing onto the bird and onto the rotor assembly (if you couldn't weight it down just by leaning on it with your torso because the typhoon wind was flapping it around), then shuffling along while sitting on the blade moving toward the end of the blade you want to come down so your bros can grab and secure that fucker. Did I mention this was at night and the LPH is pitching heavily in the rough seas with spray coming over her bow and onto a flight deck that normally sits ~70ft above water? Being topside sure beat below, which was filled with the stench of vomit piss and shit because the water system had busticated. I've got more stories if you want to read em. |
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Posted: 11/24/2017 6:46:37 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What do the different color vests/shirts signify? I recall reading about it somewhere, but forgot what what they meant, designated. And in before guy getting sucked into jet intake video. Current worst is troubleshooter getting picked off by a launching jet. I won't post the photo out of respect. Jet made an emergency landing on shore with his head still impaled on the wingtip launcher. |
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Posted: 11/24/2017 6:53:23 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A junior sailor in charge of greeting the pilot, setting up the cockpit switches, giving all the hand signals to start the jet and beyond. Once pilot says jet is ready, the PC passes jet to yellow shirt for taxi to the cat. This is on the boat obviously Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This is my big takeaway from these videos. My hat is off to all those that served! What is a "Plane Captain"? |
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Posted: 11/24/2017 8:52:56 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Squadron? Boat? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Trouble Shooter / Final Checker was the best job I had out there. Even after 30+ years, I still miss it. VAW-124 Power plants, U.S.S. Nimitz 83- 86. I got out just before the North Atlantic cruise. |
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