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Posted: 11/20/2023 4:10:31 PM EDT
[#1]
Driving a flatbed to pick up a load of steel, I'd too often hear another driver bitchin' about hard hats and safety vests. I always (when I could) reminded them that just about everyone here has seen or knows somebody that has seen someone die here.
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Posted: 11/20/2023 4:13:09 PM EDT
[#2]
I work as an electrician at a very large mill. The amount of shit that will kill you is insane.
Sorry about your friend OP. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 4:24:54 PM EDT
[#3]
I was industrial maintenance for about 30 years.
Confined Space and LOTO were the things you never wanted to dick around on. We had a guy get half of his foot chopped off partially because of short cuts, it was very preventable and the ass covering was monumental. I lost of lot of respect for several people over that one.. That being said, you really need to see it for yourself, triple check blocking, release of potential energy and LOTO and all the other stuff that makes a machine safe to work on.  |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 4:28:05 PM EDT
[#4]
Sad, confined spaces are bad enough its worse when shits not tagged out.
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Posted: 11/20/2023 4:29:46 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hate to tell you this but union's push OSHA standard harder then non union. Only shops I have worked with in house safety staff is union. Non union shops here have none. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The alternative to OSHA is unions. I'll take OSHA. Hate to tell you this but union's push OSHA standard harder then non union. Only shops I have worked with in house safety staff is union. Non union shops here have none. I will agree with this from what I worked around. Our union employees would call foul if the wind was blowing in the wrong direction. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 4:30:13 PM EDT
[#6]
Something as simple as this could have potentially made a difference  |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 4:30:45 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Swampgrass I am. I was just reading this thread. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Speaking of lock out tag out, has the arfcomer who lost his hand/wrist/arm been around recently? @Swampgrass I am. I was just reading this thread. Good to see ya. 
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Posted: 11/20/2023 4:31:21 PM EDT
[#8]
Getting crushed in a machine made me think of this I saw. https://www.wrdw.com/2023/11/20/cries-help-lead-rescuers-person-trapped-sc-garbage-truck/
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Posted: 11/20/2023 4:35:55 PM EDT
[#9]
That’s horrible. The holidays will be very sad for this poor family.
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Posted: 11/20/2023 4:58:50 PM EDT
[#10]
Unfortunately, when it comes to LOTO and working in / under machinery, every word in the OSHA manual is written in someone’s blood.
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Posted: 11/20/2023 5:02:40 PM EDT
[#11]
I have seen it a lot.
My division has had 3 deaths over the past year due to heavier than air asphyxiants. Everyone wants to play down and bitch about safety requirements until they are seriously hurt or dead. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 5:03:04 PM EDT
[#12]
Oh jeez... company email just went out with funeral service info and a picture of the guy... and its someone completely different that was killed. Apparently we have two guys with the same first name, doing similar jobs.
Still tragic nonetheless... but not the guy I thought it was. He had been in my shop a few times but my interaction with him was pretty limited. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 5:27:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Driving a flatbed to pick up a load of steel, I'd too often hear another driver bitchin' about hard hats and safety vests. I always (when I could) reminded them that just about everyone here has seen or knows somebody that has seen someone die here. Imagine being so lazy and miserable that you think a hard hat and a safety vest is something worth bitching about. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 5:31:17 PM EDT
[#14]
Sorry to hear that...
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Posted: 11/20/2023 6:10:52 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I dont know all the details... just that it was a hydraulic lift platform down inside a pit. He took off a hydraulic hose and the platform slowly came down on top of him as all the hydraulic oil blew out. Apparently there was someone within 15ft of him the whole time... but had ear muffs on and never heard him. He was trapped for 30-45min. They needed a forklift to pull the table up and retrieve him. And it wasn’t physically blocked in case it did come down? OSHA gonna chow down like Kobeyashi. Condolences for the family |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 6:19:31 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh jeez... company email just went out with funeral service info and a picture of the guy... and its someone completely different that was killed. Apparently we have two guys with the same first name, doing similar jobs. Still tragic nonetheless... but not the guy I thought it was. He had been in my shop a few times but my interaction with him was pretty limited. "We're not just a company, we're family." |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 6:28:59 PM EDT
[#17]
At a plant I used to work at, lock out tag out violations were an immediate termination regardless of role or tenure. Once I saw a friend place his hand inside an auger to get a hook. I stopped/ locked out the auger, got the hook out, and then processed his termination.
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Posted: 11/20/2023 6:31:59 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: 28 yr old Dad, husband and combat vet. He made it through 6 years in the Marines and saw combat overseas... only to get himself trapped in a confined space and killed by an unforgiving machine. Happened Thursday last week and is still under investigation. The plant is shut down all week this week and im sure will be pounded by OSHA over this. I expect there may be a few people fired also... as numerous safety violations occurred and the accident was completely avoidable.  Sorry to hear that. It’s horrible to realize a man died because he tried to do a simple job and either he or someone else took shortcuts. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 6:34:28 PM EDT
[#19]
Damn! Sorry to hear—that’s horrible.
Machines are unforgiving; some more-so than others. I see it in the ER for 30+ years with kids, moms, dads, brothers, sisters, moms, dads—sometimes there’s just nothing that can be said or done. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 6:34:52 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This was a new facility and new construction. Not a single lockout station in the entire 400k sq ft facility. Heads will roll because of this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Lock Out Tag Out is there for a reason. This was a new facility and new construction. Not a single lockout station in the entire 400k sq ft facility. Heads will roll because of this. Going by your description of the incident, If the only thing keep the lift platform from coming down on the worker was the hydraulic pressure, then the fuckup was cracking into the hydraulics without a safety mechanism while being in the danger zone. It sounds like there should have been some kind of mechanical safety device employed to prevent the collapse of the platform when relieving the hydraulic pressure, as well as a safe zone to escape to, as well as a second person on hand to monitor if it was indeed a Confined Space. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 6:38:34 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We are a non-union shop... but have (had) a top-teir safety manager. He moved up to a corporate safety position and his replacement is a very young (early 20's) inexperienced guy straight out of college with a degree in a completely unrelated field. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The alternative to OSHA is unions. I'll take OSHA. Hate to tell you this but union's push OSHA standard harder then non union. Only shops I have worked with in house safety staff is union. Non union shops here have none. We are a non-union shop... but have (had) a top-teir safety manager. He moved up to a corporate safety position and his replacement is a very young (early 20's) inexperienced guy straight out of college with a degree in a completely unrelated field. Sounds like some College Graduate mafia bullshit.......i.e. people with degrees hire others with degrees in preference to people who actually have experience, skill, and talent. Also, employers today have very young middle management, who are in turn completely infatuated with hiring very young people for professional and advanced positions. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 6:40:30 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OSHA and Unions are in bed with one another. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The alternative to OSHA is unions. I'll take OSHA. OSHA and Unions are in bed with one another. Until they aren't lol. Their intersection of interests isn't always fully aligned........ |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 6:44:45 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Going by your description of the incident, LOTO would not have prevented the accident. LOTO prevents a second person from operating the machine while the protected person is working on it. This was not that. If the only thing keep the lift platform from coming down on the worker was the hydraulic pressure, then the fuckup was cracking into the hydraulics without a safety mechanism while being in the danger zone. It sounds like there should have been some kind of mechanical safety device employed to prevent the collapse of the platform when relieving the hydraulic pressure, as well as a safe zone to escape to, as well as a second person on hand to monitor if it was indeed a Confined Space. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Lock Out Tag Out is there for a reason. This was a new facility and new construction. Not a single lockout station in the entire 400k sq ft facility. Heads will roll because of this. Going by your description of the incident, LOTO would not have prevented the accident. LOTO prevents a second person from operating the machine while the protected person is working on it. This was not that. If the only thing keep the lift platform from coming down on the worker was the hydraulic pressure, then the fuckup was cracking into the hydraulics without a safety mechanism while being in the danger zone. It sounds like there should have been some kind of mechanical safety device employed to prevent the collapse of the platform when relieving the hydraulic pressure, as well as a safe zone to escape to, as well as a second person on hand to monitor if it was indeed a Confined Space. Some sort of safety mechanism to prevent sudden release of potential energy could have been in place, and it could easily have been part of the LOTO procedure. LOTO is more than isolating controls. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 6:52:37 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I will agree with this from what I worked around. Our union employees would call foul if the wind was blowing in the wrong direction. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The alternative to OSHA is unions. I'll take OSHA. Hate to tell you this but union's push OSHA standard harder then non union. Only shops I have worked with in house safety staff is union. Non union shops here have none. I will agree with this from what I worked around. Our union employees would call foul if the wind was blowing in the wrong direction. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 6:53:46 PM EDT
[#25]
Neighbor across the street regularly works under his car supported only by a hydraulic floor jack.
I told him his life is dependent on a couple "O" rings and a small pipe plug and he just gave me a blank stare. Darwin is watching. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 6:57:37 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "We're not just a company, we're family." Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Oh jeez... company email just went out with funeral service info and a picture of the guy... and its someone completely different that was killed. Apparently we have two guys with the same first name, doing similar jobs. Still tragic nonetheless... but not the guy I thought it was. He had been in my shop a few times but my interaction with him was pretty limited. "We're not just a company, we're family."  |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 7:03:55 PM EDT
[#27]
I had a small business and imported some German hot presses for laminating and veneering. These were upstroke presses, pistons on the bottom. My techs had to have triple safeties when working on the hydraulics below: Bolt the bottom platen to the top, safety chains, and wood piers. It seems like this poor guy got underneath without a single safety.
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Posted: 11/20/2023 7:04:20 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Going by your description of the incident, LOTO would not have prevented the accident. LOTO prevents a second person from operating the machine while the protected person is working on it. This was not that. If the only thing keep the lift platform from coming down on the worker was the hydraulic pressure, then the fuckup was cracking into the hydraulics without a safety mechanism while being in the danger zone. It sounds like there should have been some kind of mechanical safety device employed to prevent the collapse of the platform when relieving the hydraulic pressure, as well as a safe zone to escape to, as well as a second person on hand to monitor if it was indeed a Confined Space. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Lock Out Tag Out is there for a reason. This was a new facility and new construction. Not a single lockout station in the entire 400k sq ft facility. Heads will roll because of this. Going by your description of the incident, LOTO would not have prevented the accident. LOTO prevents a second person from operating the machine while the protected person is working on it. This was not that. If the only thing keep the lift platform from coming down on the worker was the hydraulic pressure, then the fuckup was cracking into the hydraulics without a safety mechanism while being in the danger zone. It sounds like there should have been some kind of mechanical safety device employed to prevent the collapse of the platform when relieving the hydraulic pressure, as well as a safe zone to escape to, as well as a second person on hand to monitor if it was indeed a Confined Space. I do agree with you generally, but the platform only being supported by the hydraulics that *could* be bled off would have been caught as part of a proper LOTO procedure ... putting something into a zero energy state is part of a proper plan. If bleeding off a hydraulic line caused it to lower then it would not have been properly locked out / tagged out as it would not have been in a zero energy state. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 7:04:21 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I will agree with this from what I worked around. Our union employees would call foul if the wind was blowing in the wrong direction. Coming out of automotive and its supplier base, the handful of non-union shops almost always had better safety records than the union shops. Union protected too many people who should have been fired. My dad, IAMW, who retired in '86, would say the same. I always told my new employees that the only things they could do that would get them fired stat without recourse were breaking the law and lax safety protocols. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 7:06:24 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Neighbor across the street regularly works under his car supported only by a hydraulic floor jack. I told him his life is dependent on a couple "O" rings and a small pipe plug and he just gave me a blank stare. Darwin is watching. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 7:08:18 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote History Quoted:Coming out of automotive and its supplier base, the handful of non-union shops almost always had better safety records than the union shops. Union protected too many people who should have been fired. My dad, IAMW, who retired in '86, would say the same. I always told my new employees that the only things they could do that would get them fired stat without recourse were breaking the law and lax safety protocols. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 7:08:28 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My brother is an OSHA Investigator, not in GA They actually do have a use sometimes, and by agency wide policies they do NOT use caller ID on any OSHA tip lines They may not use caller ID but it's usually very obvious who made the call. We had one PoS call in because they ran out of shit tickets in the jack shacks. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 7:11:18 PM EDT
[#33]
Nuts. Right before the holiday season. Bad for his wife, kids and in-laws. May he RIP.
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Posted: 11/20/2023 7:19:28 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Neighbor across the street regularly works under his car supported only by a hydraulic floor jack. I told him his life is dependent on a couple "O" rings and a small pipe plug and he just gave me a blank stare. Darwin is watching. I used to see bumperstickers in my town with an NY Jets logo and "Team Ted". I was stopped at a rail crossing and asked the car next to me with a sticker "What's this "Team Ted" all about?" - Turns out Ted was plugged into life-support for one year and counting. He was working under his classic muscle car and the jack failed. His wife found him several hours later..... |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 7:21:57 PM EDT
[#35]
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Posted: 11/20/2023 7:25:08 PM EDT
[#36]
Holy shit that's a bad way to go
RIP bro |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 7:35:16 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hate to tell you this but union's push OSHA standard harder then non union. Only shops I have worked with in house safety staff is union. Non union shops here have none. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The alternative to OSHA is unions. I'll take OSHA. Hate to tell you this but union's push OSHA standard harder then non union. Only shops I have worked with in house safety staff is union. Non union shops here have none. I was IBEW in Boston. Yeah, IBEW kinda cared about safety, but it was the GC’s who pushed safety, not the union. On projects with no GC there was nobody pushing safety unless we complained about it. The union was far too busy telling us who to vote for, how to sabotage other union’s work, and protecting drunks on job sites to concern themselves with safety issues. I’m non-union now. My boss is the company safety officer and he’s always on our asses about safety. They have a zero tolerance policy and it gets enforced. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 7:36:51 PM EDT
[#38]
I hate to hear this. I was almost killed by a co-worker in 2021 and can tell you that TN is a terrible state to get injured in. You don’t get a penny for pain and suffering, there is a sheet used by the state with fairly simple math and that is your maximum payout.It equals out to a couple yrs pay but I’m left with permanent brain and hand issues and zero income. If I would died my wife would have gotten 1 yrs pay period. There isn’t a sky’s the limit lawsuit in good ole TN like people think.
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Posted: 11/20/2023 7:42:07 PM EDT
[#39]
I never met my grandfather due to a similar circumstance. Step grandfather that took his place was a real ass
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Posted: 11/20/2023 7:42:09 PM EDT
[#40]
Terrible. It's easy to get complacent and think "naw, that ain't gonna happen to me," until it does. Not saying that's what happened to your coworker, OP. But I think we'd all do well to stay on guard and don't get lured into a false sense of security while doing that thing or task you've done a hundred times before.
Sometimes all it takes is for one thing to go bad and the next thing you know, you're a hash tag on Facebook or a smiling face on a t-shirt. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 7:48:58 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Terrible. It's easy to get complacent and think "naw, that ain't gonna happen to me," until it does. Not saying that's what happened to your coworker, OP. But I think we'd all do well to stay on guard and don't get lured into a false sense of security while doing that thing or task you've done a hundred times before. Sometimes all it takes is for one thing to go bad and the next thing you know, you're a hash tag on Facebook or a smiling face on a t-shirt. Now that I know exactly who the victim was... im not entirely surprised. I didnt know him very well... but the impression I got is that he had janitor-level skills and was probably doing shit he had no business doing. He was fairly new to the company (less than 2yrs) and im pretty sure he was hired as building maintenance. He would paint handrailings, change lightbulbs, run the floor scrubbers, etc... I dont think he had much mechanical background but was probably doing millwright/mechanic work due to staffing shortages. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 7:58:42 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: First of all, that’s awful and tragic. And while I know we all ridicule OSHA, but they have a purpose, and it’s to prevent stuff like this. My wife was a fatality investigator for NC OSHA. She's seen some shit that haunts her to this day. For all the good the OSHA regs do, at the end of the day, people are stupid and employers always put production over safety. Every death she investigated was 100% preventable. NC and Federal OSHA are woefully under-staffed and can't possibly police even a tiny percent of businesses under their purview. Often, the only time an employer deals with OSHA is after a severe injury or fatality. Very often, employers simply eat any (pathetically small and inconsequential) fines as just the cost of doing business. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 8:08:57 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We are a non-union shop... but have (had) a top-teir safety manager. He moved up to a corporate safety position and his replacement is a very young (early 20's) inexperienced guy straight out of college with a degree in a completely unrelated field. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The alternative to OSHA is unions. I'll take OSHA. Hate to tell you this but union's push OSHA standard harder then non union. Only shops I have worked with in house safety staff is union. Non union shops here have none. We are a non-union shop... but have (had) a top-teir safety manager. He moved up to a corporate safety position and his replacement is a very young (early 20's) inexperienced guy straight out of college with a degree in a completely unrelated field. That’s a bad hiring decision. No one in charge of safety should be inexperienced or young. IMHO the ideal safety manger has a lot of experience and has no ironies telling people to fuck off |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 8:10:40 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had a small business and imported some German hot presses for laminating and veneering. These were upstroke presses, pistons on the bottom. My techs had to have triple safeties when working on the hydraulics below: Bolt the bottom platen to the top, safety chains, and wood piers. It seems like this poor guy got underneath without a single safety. I worked at a plywood plant for a time on the layup crew. Almost saw a guy get squished under the hot press. IIRC it had four 10" hydraulic rams that came out of the base and would push the steam heated platens up to the top. They would go under it and work in the area of the rams while is was closed up in a cycle and come out when it was ready to open up. Anyways, for what ever reason, the cycle ended a bit sooner than it should have, I heard the noise the hydraulics make when the pressure gets dumped and looked over in that direction. Guy came flying out, threw his hard hat and said fuck this place and went home for the day. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 8:27:17 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's gonna go bad. Just had to deal with osha over an injury. Nothing will be corrected either; they'll just eat the fine. It is my understanding that failure to correct will result in willful/repeat violations and those can result in a significantly higher fine. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 8:32:33 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like some College Graduate mafia bullshit.......i.e. people with degrees hire others with degrees in preference to people who actually have experience, skill, and talent. Also, employers today have very young middle management, who are in turn completely infatuated with hiring very young people for professional and advanced positions. That is a retarded assessment and completely ingnorant of reality Because nobody has ever seen or heard of a workplace fatality where the deceased decided to take a shortcut despite a pretty comprehensive safety and energy control procedure plan, and ignored all the rules This place maybe being very new didn't have a detailed safety program yet, but its really stupid for you to make the conclusion there were some "college boy" hot shots telling someone to walk into a deathtrap. Just fucking ignorant. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 8:37:34 PM EDT
[#47]
Sorry to hear this OP
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Posted: 11/20/2023 8:39:12 PM EDT
[#48]
Very sorry to hear that OP. After I got out of the navy I took a job working under a crane in a boat yard. The rigger I replaced was killed when the brakes failed on the crane.
There was still a raked spot on the gravel where the man had been crushed. Crane operator was never the same after that. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 8:39:34 PM EDT
[#49]
Had that happen at my plant about 20 years ago. Company decided it was more cost effective to remove safety lockouts on a machine and have a set up man work on it while it was in operation. He got caught in it and was crushed to death.
Company only got a $60K fine. Life is cheap for American blue collar workers much like in China. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 8:41:28 PM EDT
[#50]
I work in some very dangerous environments every day, and what usually makes them the most dangerous is I’m a guest visiting these workspaces and don’t know them as intimately as the everyday workers. I am very cautious around open pits, hydraulic lifts, overhead cranes, large heavy equipment, PTOs, etc but the risk is always there.
Some companies/jobsites I visit are extremely vigilant about safety and PPE, but the vast majority have practically zero protective policies that get followed. |
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