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Link Posted: 2/2/2021 8:44:14 PM EDT
[#1]
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Where are we going to be fighting China from that land based aircraft will play any factor?
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Internal weapons bays...

And no, kinematics doesn't matter. At least not in any of the wars that the powers that be anticipate fighting. Going up against some broke ass third world government with a handful of barely airworthy Cold War era Soviet built antiques.


The SE has weapons bays?

And yeah it doesn't matter fighting the 3rd world. But it might fighting China.


Where are we going to be fighting China from that land based aircraft will play any factor?

From the man made islands they built for us.. they'll need a bit of refurbishment after we clear out the original tenants though
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 8:47:30 PM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:


Where are we going to be fighting China from that land based aircraft will play any factor?
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The two squadrons who've been named to receive the EX thus far are both ANG units which have air defense missions tasked to them. Florida and Oregon are their intended homes.

https://www.airforcemag.com/f-15ex-headed-to-oregon-florida-as-usaf-decides-on-fighter-bases/

" Portland Air National Guard Base, Ore., will host the first operational F-15EX unit beginning in 2023"

"Eglin Air Force Base, Fla., will flight-test the jets starting in early 2021 as well. Eglin aircrews are getting training from Boeing and an F-15EX simulator this year."

"So far, the service hasn’t announced any Active-duty units that will receive the updated Eagles."
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 8:49:46 PM EDT
[#3]
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I'll take it, but would rather have a stretched FB-22 or FB-23 to roam the Pacific with..
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Supported by B-1B missile trucks.
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 8:50:57 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:
Missile trucks. 5th Gen calls the shots EX's launch.


The pics of F-15SAs with 12 AAMs in the Canyon

https://s3.amazonaws.com/the-drive-staging/message-editor%2F1529957961706-sa2belly.jpg


Pic by Chris McGreevy


Although there's art from Boeing(maybe) of an even more impressive load out of 14 AMRAAMs and 2 Sidewinders but I don't know if that'll be realized.

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Exactly. It is a flying truck for Raptors. Raptor just tells the Eagle which way to point and shoot. Raptor does the rest. So who gets the kill?
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 8:51:47 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:

The two squadrons who've been named to receive the EX thus far are both ANG units which have air defense missions tasked to them. Florida and Oregon are their intended homes.

https://www.airforcemag.com/f-15ex-headed-to-oregon-florida-as-usaf-decides-on-fighter-bases/

" Portland Air National Guard Base, Ore., will host the first operational F-15EX unit beginning in 2023"

"Eglin Air Force Base, Fla., will flight-test the jets starting in early 2021 as well. Eglin aircrews are getting training from Boeing and an F-15EX simulator this year."

"So far, the service hasn’t announced any Active-duty units that will receive the updated Eagles."
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Quoted:
Quoted:


Where are we going to be fighting China from that land based aircraft will play any factor?

The two squadrons who've been named to receive the EX thus far are both ANG units which have air defense missions tasked to them. Florida and Oregon are their intended homes.

https://www.airforcemag.com/f-15ex-headed-to-oregon-florida-as-usaf-decides-on-fighter-bases/

" Portland Air National Guard Base, Ore., will host the first operational F-15EX unit beginning in 2023"

"Eglin Air Force Base, Fla., will flight-test the jets starting in early 2021 as well. Eglin aircrews are getting training from Boeing and an F-15EX simulator this year."

"So far, the service hasn’t announced any Active-duty units that will receive the updated Eagles."



I'm aware.  My point was we won't be fighting China with any aircraft due to geography
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 8:52:16 PM EDT
[#6]
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From the man made islands they built for us.. they'll need a bit of refurbishment after we clear out the original tenants though
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F15 also has quite a bit of range. It could fly out of the Philippines and they are already based in Japan.

I know of two authors who have written novels about stresses with China escalating into outright conflict. But in both cases, even though the Chinese had committed several acts of war. The US backed down and the conflict didn't escalate.

I would like to write a novel about the US military reinforcing the Vietnamese against a Chinese invasion. Superbugs flung from an aircraft carrier shortly before it is sunk. Perhaps a cat shot as a torpedo hits? Then that squadron landing in Hanoi, refueled and sent into battle.



If that novel was made into a movie I envision this to be the trailer music.
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 8:54:48 PM EDT
[#7]
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F15 also has quite a bit of range. It could fly out of the Philippines and they are already based in Japan.

I know of two authors who have written novels about stresses with China escalating into outright conflict. But in both cases, even though the Chinese had committed several acts of war. The US backed down and the conflict didn't escalate.

I would like to write a novel about the US military reinforcing the Vietnamese against a Chinese invasion. Superbugs flung from an aircraft carrier shortly before it is sunk. Perhaps a cat shot as a torpedo hits? Then that squadron landing in Hanoi, refueled and sent into battle.
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Quoted:

From the man made islands they built for us.. they'll need a bit of refurbishment after we clear out the original tenants though


F15 also has quite a bit of range. It could fly out of the Philippines and they are already based in Japan.

I know of two authors who have written novels about stresses with China escalating into outright conflict. But in both cases, even though the Chinese had committed several acts of war. The US backed down and the conflict didn't escalate.

I would like to write a novel about the US military reinforcing the Vietnamese against a Chinese invasion. Superbugs flung from an aircraft carrier shortly before it is sunk. Perhaps a cat shot as a torpedo hits? Then that squadron landing in Hanoi, refueled and sent into battle.


What country will let us fight a war with China from their land and not expect to have their country completely destroyed in the process?
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 8:57:29 PM EDT
[#8]
Probably heard it take off. My work is right across lindberg from the airport. Love watching those dudes have fun. Hell on a conference call though
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 8:57:33 PM EDT
[#9]
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What country will let us fight a war with China from their land and not expect to have their country completely destroyed in the process?
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Let us?

In the scenario I described above it is more like.

"Help!!! For the love of god help us!!!"
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 8:58:20 PM EDT
[#10]
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So an upgraded version of a plane that was designed in the 60s and has been flying for almost 50 years costs basically the same as a brand new F-35A?  



Oh, never change Military Industrial Complex.  We love you.
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Yeah at some point we’re going to badly get our shit pushed in because of stupid shit like this. Retooling for the Raptor I’m sure would cost more but we’d be better off down the road.
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 8:58:43 PM EDT
[#11]
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I'm aware.  My point was we won't be fighting China with any aircraft due to geography
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Quoted:


Where are we going to be fighting China from that land based aircraft will play any factor?

The two squadrons who've been named to receive the EX thus far are both ANG units which have air defense missions tasked to them. Florida and Oregon are their intended homes.

https://www.airforcemag.com/f-15ex-headed-to-oregon-florida-as-usaf-decides-on-fighter-bases/

" Portland Air National Guard Base, Ore., will host the first operational F-15EX unit beginning in 2023"

"Eglin Air Force Base, Fla., will flight-test the jets starting in early 2021 as well. Eglin aircrews are getting training from Boeing and an F-15EX simulator this year."

"So far, the service hasn't announced any Active-duty units that will receive the updated Eagles."

I'm aware.  My point was we won't be fighting China with any aircraft due to geography

Indeed and I'm sure it's one of the reasons why China fields such a large conventional ballistic force, probably the largest in the world. It's cheaper and easier to hit your enemies at range. No worries about training fighter pilots, spending money on tankers, maintenance, etc.  Meanwhile our longest range surface based missile is HIMARS (?) at just under 200 miles.
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 9:29:34 PM EDT
[#12]
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Indeed and I'm sure it's one of the reasons why China fields such a large conventional ballistic force, probably the largest in the world. It's cheaper and easier to hit your enemies at range. No worries about training fighter pilots, spending money on tankers, maintenance, etc.  Meanwhile our longest range surface based missile is HIMARS (?) at just under 200 miles.
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ATACMs is the missile, HIMARS the launch platform.  PrSM is supposed to be the replacement (should be properly called Pershing III).

However, Xiden will make us go back under a newly negotiated Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty with new restrictions limiting us to .50 cal range only in a ballistic arc.

Hell, the next 4 blocks of the 35 are probably PLAAF bound
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 9:33:02 PM EDT
[#13]
These are just flying middle trucks for 22 and 35

They don’t need the stealth to sit miles back and launch freedom rockets.

These initial units will have a higher price than anticipated. Boeing took current production f15 variant and modified to meet the air forces requirements. Then the air force  cut the initial buy from something like 13 planes to 4. The modification costs get pulled into 4 planes instead of 13.
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 9:38:47 PM EDT
[#14]
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ATACMs is the missile, HIMARS the launch platform.  PrSM is supposed to be the replacement (should be properly called Pershing III).

However, Xiden will make us go back under a newly negotiated Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty with new restrictions limiting us to .50 cal range only in a ballistic arc.

Hell, the next 4 blocks of the 35 are probably PLAAF bound
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Quoted:

Indeed and I'm sure it's one of the reasons why China fields such a large conventional ballistic force, probably the largest in the world. It's cheaper and easier to hit your enemies at range. No worries about training fighter pilots, spending money on tankers, maintenance, etc.  Meanwhile our longest range surface based missile is HIMARS (?) at just under 200 miles.


ATACMs is the missile, HIMARS the launch platform.  PrSM is supposed to be the replacement (should be properly called Pershing III).

However, Xiden will make us go back under a newly negotiated Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty with new restrictions limiting us to .50 cal range only in a ballistic arc.

Hell, the next 4 blocks of the 35 are probably PLAAF bound



Didn't know about the PrSM, had to Wiki that one up.. would be a great way of closing the gap in the Pacific and creating our own A2/AD bubble.

Lockheed and Raytheon will test-fire their submissions for the renamed Precision Strike Missile (PrSM) program in 2019, with the selected weapon planned to achieve Initial Operational Capability in 2023; the initial PrSM will only be able to hit stationary targets on land, but later versions will track moving targets on land and sea. With the United States withdrawal from the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty, the range of the PrSM will be increased beyond the '499 km' limitation previously placed upon it by the treaty.

After entering service in 2023, the Spiral One upgrade will incorporate a multi-mode seeker in 2025 with the ability to home in on radio-frequency emissions from land and ship radars and an infrared imaging mode to strike precise points. Spiral Two will focus on enhanced lethality and Spiral Three will increase missile range to 700–800 km (430–500 mi).

Link Posted: 2/2/2021 9:49:24 PM EDT
[#15]
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 9:55:32 PM EDT
[#16]
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These are just flying middle trucks for 22 and 35

They don’t need the stealth to sit miles back and launch freedom rockets.

These initial units will have a higher price than anticipated. Boeing took current production f15 variant and modified to meet the air forces requirements. Then the air force  cut the initial buy from something like 13 planes to 4. The modification costs get pulled into 4 planes instead of 13.
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A basic look at actual capabilities will reveal the "missile truck" idea is a non-starter. The Chinese have missiles with just as much range as ours, and a giant 4th gen fighter like the F-15 will be detected long before it enters missile range.

Try using F-15s as missile trucks and they'll either be spending all their time dodging enemy missiles or they'll be knocked out of the sky by J-20s that they didn't even see coming.

The most they can contribute to a high end fight is launching hypersonics and cruise missiles from hundreds of miles away - but using a twin engine air superiority fighter for that mission is basically trying to do it in the most expensive and inefficient way possible.
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 10:06:03 PM EDT
[#17]
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There have been multiple paintings made, but if it doesn't have a 900 square foot wing, then it's not an XX.  In my humble opinion, despite the abuses of marketers and VP's.
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An F15 with a freshman 15 and huge...

Attachment Attached File


Wings.

Link Posted: 2/2/2021 10:14:36 PM EDT
[#18]
Cool jets and may be needed. They’re faster and carry more payload than the 35 can. Let the 35s spot and lock em and have these sling aim 260s at em en masse.
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 10:22:16 PM EDT
[#19]
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A basic look at actual capabilities will reveal the "missile truck" idea is a non-starter. The Chinese have missiles with just as much range as ours, and a giant 4th gen fighter like the F-15 will be detected long before it enters missile range.

Try using F-15s as missile trucks and they'll either be spending all their time dodging enemy missiles or they'll be knocked out of the sky by J-20s that they didn't even see coming.

The most they can contribute to a high end fight is launching hypersonics and cruise missiles from hundreds of miles away - but using a twin engine air superiority fighter for that mission is basically trying to do it in the most expensive and inefficient way possible.
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I mean kinda right, kinda wrong.

Kinematics matter. At least when it comes to the "biggest stick" part of the game. An Aim120 launched at .7mach will have alot less range than one launched at 1.4 mach, and that will be inferior to one launched at m2+.... Plus altitude. Its all about "E" in that part of the game. The reason the F-22 is such a stupidly badass plane is because literally nothing matches it kinematically. Its basically launching shit from outer space at you, and, you can't see it, or target it.

An F15X (basic universal income (for boeing) edition) cannot do that. It can't supercruise (AFAIK), and if it carries a billion Aim120D or whatever its draggy as fuck, and therfore even slower. Therefore its missiles will suck more than the same exact missile fired by a raptor, because physics.

Now it can be a missile truck, but its a stupid fucking idea because it will be far more visible and far less lethal than an F22. Though to be fair, its a good sight better than using a B1 for that.

The Chinese have stealth fighters, maybe not as good as an F22 or F35, but at a guess better than an F15X from an RCS perspective... And thats what matters. Plus they have comparable missiles to the 120D or meteor.

TLDR, we need more F22's.


Link Posted: 2/2/2021 10:25:00 PM EDT
[#20]
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The should call it the F-15 MAX

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ziiiiiiiing!

too soon!

how did we go from like, 15 aero co's to these yayhoos who messed up a  737!?
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 10:32:30 PM EDT
[#22]
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I mean kinda right, kinda wrong.

Kinematics matter. At least when it comes to the "biggest stick" part of the game. An Aim120 launched at .7mach will have alot less range than one launched at 1.4 mach, and that will be inferior to one launched at m2+.... Plus altitude. Its all about "E" in that part of the game. The reason the F-22 is such a stupidly badass plane is because literally nothing matches it kinematically. Its basically launching shit from outer space at you, and, you can't see it, or target it.

An F15X (basic universal income (for boeing) edition) cannot do that. It can't supercruise (AFAIK), and if it carries a billion Aim120D or whatever its draggy as fuck, and therfore even slower. Therefore its missiles will suck more than the same exact missile fired by a raptor, because physics.

Now it can be a missile truck, but its a stupid fucking idea because it will be far more visible and far less lethal than an F22. Though to be fair, its a good sight better than using a B1 for that.

The Chinese have stealth fighters, maybe not as good as an F22 or F35, but at a guess better than an F15X from an RCS perspective... And thats what matters. Plus they have comparable missiles to the 120D or meteor.

TLDR, we need more F22's.


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J20 is a wish.com 5th gen. Can’t see (radar is still in development) can’t run (major issues with the motors), can’t hide (RCS is greater than SU57, which is the size of a truck tire).

On top of that they have around 20 of them. Raptor bait those and these would help against the thousands of older Chinese fighters.
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 10:35:19 PM EDT
[#23]
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Exactly. It is a flying truck for Raptors. Raptor just tells the Eagle which way to point and shoot. Raptor does the rest. So who gets the kill?
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When they get back they spin the "Kill" wheel 7/8 of the wheel spots  are dedicated to AMC tanker and transport crews, E4-6s in maintenance, missleeers who have the audacity to wear flight suits, the last 1/8 is for the respective zipper suited sun gods they settle it with trial by combat...

In all reality the F15EX fills a need. Lord knows we needed to buy more F22s but that ship sailed. Plenty of older 4th gen airframes hitting EOL.  More airframes providing missletruck, interceptor, air superiority over 2nd/3rd tier threads or even CAS vs high cost 5+ gen aircraft is a good thing. Make sure the sensor suite and comlinks are upgradable.
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 11:11:40 PM EDT
[#24]
I think another reason why the Air Force is doing an F-15 buy is to keep the aircraft in production so that if we need a large fighter type aircraft that can carry overly large ordnance (i.e. hypersonic missiles), they'll have something with which to do so. You aren't going to fit such large weapons inside the weapons bays on an F-22 or F-35. The Russians are using the MiG-31 as a launch platform for their hypersonic weapons. I have a sneaking suspicion that our own forces are looking at the F-15 as a potential platform for our own hypersonic weapons.

Frankly, I have no problem with buying new Eagles. I think it is a good idea. Hell, I wouldn't even mind if we bought more Vipers, which I also hear is a possibility. The truth of the matter is, we have purchased a woefully small amount of fighters since the mid 1990s and that is why we face the "fighter gap" today. Had we continued buying the latest model F-15 and F-16 fighters throughout the 1990s and early 2000's and bought them in the sort of numbers we did in the 1980s, we'd still have a decently fresh force. Instead, we have a handful of silver bullets and a bunch of worn out shit leftover from the 80s. And we have a much smaller air force than the one that went to war in the Persian Gulf back in 1991.

Now that China has emerged as a legit great power rival, we're going to have to build our forces back up to about where they were at the end of the Cold War. We aren't going to be able to do that quickly enough by just buying the F-35 alone. So late model Eagles, Vipers and Super Bugs are going to have to complement the F-22 and F-35 going forward. And they are quite capable of doing this. We don't need a total 5th Gen fighter force. We just need enough of them to serve as a knock down the door force to use in the early stages of conflicts and to serve alongside the 4th Gen fighters in a complementary role. Red Flag exercises have shown that 4th and 5th gen fighters can work together very effectively. In fact, each has their own set of strengths and weaknesses. When combining them together as a team, you actually retain the strengths and cancel out many of the weaknesses.
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 11:13:44 PM EDT
[#25]
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J20 is a wish.com 5th gen. Can’t see (radar is still in development) can’t run (major issues with the motors), can’t hide (RCS is greater than SU57, which is the size of a truck tire).

On top of that they have around 20 of them. Raptor bait those and these would help against the thousands of older Chinese fighters.
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Watching a J20 takeoff is like watching an old man struggling to get out of bed.

"Alright! I'm up! Damn you fourth and fifth generation whipper snappers with your absurd power to weight ratio!"

I would take a current issue air national guard F15 against a J20 in 1v1 combat.
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 11:16:16 PM EDT
[#26]
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More s$%t from Globo-Boeing.  This F-15 is nothing but a repackaged F-15SA/QA with a ridiculous amount of unqualled systems, non-conforming parts, and is nothing but a textbook example of aerospace management malfeasance.  I'm sure there's even more wrong that will be found when it starts another round of 50k test point tests.  

The fly-by-wire stinks and causes its own set of problems.  The "all-new" digital cockpit is just the QA cockpit, radar and ADCP-II are whatever was kludged together for the Saudis as was EPAWS.  

We'd be better off buying Sukhoi's.  
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The spirit of Boyd lives  
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 11:19:13 PM EDT
[#27]
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I think another reason why the Air Force is doing an F-15 buy is to keep the aircraft in production so that if we need a large fighter type aircraft that can carry overly large ordnance (i.e. hypersonic missiles), they'll have something with which to do so. You aren't going to fit such large weapons inside the weapons bays on an F-22 or F-35.
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But they can carry weapons externally if needed.
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 11:20:31 PM EDT
[#28]
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Quoted:


The spirit of Boyd lives  
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Quoted:


More s$%t from Globo-Boeing.  This F-15 is nothing but a repackaged F-15SA/QA with a ridiculous amount of unqualled systems, non-conforming parts, and is nothing but a textbook example of aerospace management malfeasance.  I'm sure there's even more wrong that will be found when it starts another round of 50k test point tests.  

The fly-by-wire stinks and causes its own set of problems.  The "all-new" digital cockpit is just the QA cockpit, radar and ADCP-II are whatever was kludged together for the Saudis as was EPAWS.  

We'd be better off buying Sukhoi's.  


The spirit of Boyd lives  


Robot Chicken Star Wars "Q-Wing"
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 11:30:08 PM EDT
[#29]
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Yeah at some point we’re going to badly get our shit pushed in because of stupid shit like this. Retooling for the Raptor I’m sure would cost more but we’d be better off down the road.
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So an upgraded version of a plane that was designed in the 60s and has been flying for almost 50 years costs basically the same as a brand new F-35A?  

Oh, never change Military Industrial Complex.  We love you.

Yeah at some point we’re going to badly get our shit pushed in because of stupid shit like this. Retooling for the Raptor I’m sure would cost more but we’d be better off down the road.

I'm inclined to agree with you, but there's absolutely no chance that happens. None. Zippo. There will never be another Raptor made.
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 11:36:32 PM EDT
[#30]
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But they can carry weapons externally if needed.
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I doubt you’d ever see a raptor carry external weapons.

F35 can, and will if they own the air and have enemy air defenses suppressed, but the F15 is superior in that role.  Bigger, faster, moar motors, fuel, bombs/missiles, etc...
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 11:37:26 PM EDT
[#31]
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I'm inclined to agree with you, but there's absolutely no chance that happens. None. Zippo. There will never be another Raptor made.
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I believe that a hundred years from now. Replicas of the F22 will be a popular toy for rich people.

Those replicas will probably be better than the original in every way. You might even have weirdo hipsters who insist on having a replica that is 100% factory correct. These 100% replicas will be more expensive and harder to maintain than most of the replicas they build.

But for some reason they insist on having versions that don't have reaction controls and ion engines. Dinky things can't even fly into space!
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 11:52:33 PM EDT
[#32]
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While buying the longer ranged F-15 makes sense to me, it unfortunately opens a can of worms as the USAF is now mulling purchasing newer F-16s too.

U.S. Air Force Talks New F-16 Orders In Latest Acquisition Shake-Up
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The f22 line going away so quickly and then Lockhart making it so expensive to restart is making the airforce think twice before the other lines shut down.

Need to get some modern Gen 4s before they go away forever.  Gen 6 is already on the way, that will suck up whatever budget dollars the 35 doesn't. Get while the gettin is good.
Link Posted: 2/3/2021 12:00:43 AM EDT
[#33]
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Where are we going to be fighting China from that land based aircraft will play any factor?
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The west coast.
Link Posted: 2/3/2021 1:02:13 AM EDT
[#34]
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The most impressive aerial display I ever saw was a during a post Desert Storm/'91 airshow at the local AFB.  Pretty much everything in the USAF arsenal was there, including the debut of the F-117 Nighthawk, including the obligatory cordoned off display and armed guards surrounding the aircraft.  Anyway, the headliner of the show was an appearance by the Blue Angels.  A solo F-15 did its thing before the Angels, though, and frankly, it put them to shame.  Everything the F-15 did, it did with great authority, it was simply amazing.  The Blue Angels were anticlimactic by1 comparison.  And I've seen nothing better since, nearly 30 years later.
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104 to zero ain't a fuckin' joke, that's fer sure.

Both the F-15 and the F-16 are scarily competent and capable aircraft that will LAY DOWN THE PAIN for whatever's fighting them.

Against 5th gen aircraft, there will be losses, however.
Link Posted: 2/3/2021 1:26:52 AM EDT
[#35]
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The spirit of Boyd lives  
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If I'm channeling the spirit of Boyd it's a verified sign of the apocalypse.
Link Posted: 2/3/2021 1:27:13 AM EDT
[#36]
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I'd support that....the F22 is the sexiest thing that's ever flown.
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Wrong. YF-23 is the sexiest set of wings to grace the air in a long time. Such a beautiful plane.
Link Posted: 2/3/2021 1:27:28 AM EDT
[#37]
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The most impressive aerial display I ever saw was a during a post Desert Storm/'91 airshow at the local AFB.  Pretty much everything in the USAF arsenal was there, including the debut of the F-117 Nighthawk, including the obligatory cordoned off display and armed guards surrounding the aircraft.  Anyway, the headliner of the show was an appearance by the Blue Angels.  A solo F-15 did its thing before the Angels, though, and frankly, it put them to shame.  Everything the F-15 did, it did with great authority, it was simply amazing.  The Blue Angels were anticlimactic by comparison.  And I've seen nothing better since, nearly 30 years later.
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I just don't see that. I've never seen an F-15 do a better display than an F-16, except for the max climb part. The 15 is just bigger, slightly faster, and louder. The 16 feels like you have a formula 1 race car molded to your body. Yes, I have flown in both - the erection from the 16 lasts for days.
Link Posted: 2/3/2021 1:31:31 AM EDT
[#38]
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I was talking to a guy the other day who claimed that they were using YF23s and YF24s (whatever that is) to intercept deep state helicopters fleeing to Canada.
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Attachment Attached File

Link Posted: 2/3/2021 1:42:13 AM EDT
[#39]
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I thought the EX was just a concept, ie, vaporware. Certainly no more than a single mock up sitting in a hangar.

Guess not.
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You're probably thinking of the silent eagle.
Link Posted: 2/3/2021 1:52:20 AM EDT
[#40]
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The SE has weapons bays?

And yeah it doesn't matter fighting the 3rd world. But it might fighting China.
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A good portion of that load out would be fired long before the kinematics matter.
Link Posted: 2/3/2021 2:31:09 AM EDT
[#41]
Link Posted: 2/3/2021 2:33:06 AM EDT
[#42]
Link Posted: 2/3/2021 2:37:19 AM EDT
[#43]
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Quoted:
Quoted:


I was talking to a guy the other day who claimed that they were using YF23s and YF24s (whatever that is) to intercept deep state helicopters fleeing to Canada.


/media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbumgif



Yeah, I figure that if they had built more than 2 YF23s that someone on this site would have noticed them flying around. They have a pretty distinctive shape.

Attachment Attached File


Artists impression of an F23

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 2/3/2021 2:40:24 AM EDT
[#44]
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Quoted:
If I'm channeling the spirit of Boyd it's a verified sign of the apocalypse.
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Do we need any more of those?

What are we up to by now? About 743 verified signs of the apocalypse?
Link Posted: 2/3/2021 7:58:11 AM EDT
[#45]
Buy about ~300 F-15EXs and ~300 F-16Vs fresh from the factory.  Tie them in with the F-22 and F-35 and we'll still have the best planes on the planet and will buy us time until the 6th Gen F-15/F-22 replacement comes out.
Link Posted: 2/3/2021 8:02:55 AM EDT
[#46]
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Quoted:
The most impressive aerial display I ever saw was a during a post Desert Storm/'91 airshow at the local AFB.  Pretty much everything in the USAF arsenal was there, including the debut of the F-117 Nighthawk, including the obligatory cordoned off display and armed guards surrounding the aircraft.  Anyway, the headliner of the show was an appearance by the Blue Angels.  A solo F-15 did its thing before the Angels, though, and frankly, it put them to shame.  Everything the F-15 did, it did with great authority, it was simply amazing.  The Blue Angels were anticlimactic by comparison.  And I've seen nothing better since, nearly 30 years later.
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You need to see an F-22 airshow demo.

Some of mfingar's videos.


F-22 Raptor Demo Team Practice Jan 22, 2021

F-22 Raptor Demo Team Practice Oct 23, 2020

F-22 Demo Team tearing up the skies last week
Link Posted: 2/3/2021 8:03:16 AM EDT
[#47]
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Quoted:
That is pure 5EX right there.
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Link Posted: 2/3/2021 8:32:55 AM EDT
[#48]
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Quoted:
The most impressive aerial display I ever saw was a during a post Desert Storm/'91 airshow at the local AFB.  Pretty much everything in the USAF arsenal was there, including the debut of the F-117 Nighthawk, including the obligatory cordoned off display and armed guards surrounding the aircraft.  Anyway, the headliner of the show was an appearance by the Blue Angels.  A solo F-15 did its thing before the Angels, though, and frankly, it put them to shame.  Everything the F-15 did, it did with great authority, it was simply amazing.  The Blue Angels were anticlimactic by comparison.  And I've seen nothing better since, nearly 30 years later.
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One of my favorite static displays ever was at the MacDill Airfest.  They had an empty area cordoned off, with an armed guard.  There was a placard showing the F-117.

Who says the Air Force doesn't have a sense of humor?
Link Posted: 2/3/2021 9:03:20 AM EDT
[#49]
Link Posted: 2/3/2021 9:05:44 AM EDT
[#50]
I think the answer is the NGNF.  China is far enough that the AF would need friendly bases which may not happen.  Guam, Korea, PI and more.

Having a NGNF would allow around the clock availability
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