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Posted: 5/10/2023 2:57:40 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: progressive ? yes. most progressive president in history. trash. thats gotta be a troll post. he was the most popular president in history. his progressive agenda had to do with things like ending child labor, breaking trusts and similar stuff. he built up american military prior to wwI. he was one of the great men of his age.  Attached FileHe was progressive trash and deserves to be shit on constantly |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 3:03:19 AM EDT
[#2]
He did one good thing, establishing the National Park system.
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Posted: 5/10/2023 3:23:10 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nice forum hand grenade there. https://i.ibb.co/VJ6gdMd/grenade.gif TR was from the moderate progressive wing of the Republican Party, sure. However, much of his labor policy was intended to halt the growth of communism in the US (if not for the betterment of children and everyone's working conditions). This guy gets it. While the labor protections lead to many restrictions, just look at the other countries that failed to have such protections or waited to long, they went full blown communist or socialist. Same for the Environmental conservation. We absolutely were on path to become stripped out China or India had we not stopped that shit... |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 5:08:21 AM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 5/10/2023 5:58:20 AM EDT
[#5]
todays ":men" could use a lesson from guys like TR...most of todays men and many posters here act like pussies than real men
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Posted: 5/10/2023 6:37:14 AM EDT
[#6]
Progressive means moving forward in a direction. He moved forward in a totally different direction than the progressives today are moving. It's comparing apples to oranges.
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Posted: 5/10/2023 6:42:02 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Progressive 100+ years ago is not the same thing as progressive today. |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 6:47:02 AM EDT
[#8]
Ranking the Presidents, he would be in the top 5 or 10 easily. If he had been President instead of Lincoln, we would not have had a Civil War.
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Posted: 5/10/2023 7:00:35 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Progressive 100+ years ago is not the same thing as progressive today. This. TR was the greatest president we ever had. He loved the natural world and thought a strong military was essential. He was incredibly literate, a world explorer, and unafraid to tackle difficult problems. |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 7:24:55 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: for its time yes. american business was dominated by a few very powerful, rich men who made the rules. all the rules. you wanted to work, or sell you produce as a farmer, you took what the big guy offered and you were screwed regardless. you want your kids to spend 60 hours a week working in bad conditions? that was what went on at the time. you were a farmer? either you took what the big guy charged to get your product to market or it rotted in the field. life is a balance. what do you think would have eventually happened if someone like tr hadnt done things to break up the big trusts? revolution, as in marxist revolution. marxist ideas were already a thing in this country. using the government to somewhat level the playing field prevented things for swinging wildly the other way eventually. some folks believe in absolutes. like no government intervention at all. if you adhere to such nonsense, your are naive. this is not to say things have swung to far in the other way currently. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: progressive ? yes. most progressive president in history. trash. thats gotta be a troll post. he was the most popular president in history. his progressive agenda had to do with things like ending child labor, breaking trusts and similar stuff. he built up american military prior to wwI. he was one of the great men of his age. So unprecedented Gov expansion? for its time yes. american business was dominated by a few very powerful, rich men who made the rules. all the rules. you wanted to work, or sell you produce as a farmer, you took what the big guy offered and you were screwed regardless. you want your kids to spend 60 hours a week working in bad conditions? that was what went on at the time. you were a farmer? either you took what the big guy charged to get your product to market or it rotted in the field. life is a balance. what do you think would have eventually happened if someone like tr hadnt done things to break up the big trusts? revolution, as in marxist revolution. marxist ideas were already a thing in this country. using the government to somewhat level the playing field prevented things for swinging wildly the other way eventually. some folks believe in absolutes. like no government intervention at all. if you adhere to such nonsense, your are naive. this is not to say things have swung to far in the other way currently. Marxism had crept in during Lincoln's time in office.......the 48'ers were from the Marxist school of thought |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 10:29:13 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you hunt, you have Teddy Roosevelt to thank for much of your opportunity. Whatever you think of the rest of his policies, he was a visionary when it came to conservation.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 10:31:04 AM EDT
[#12]
He was a pos.
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Posted: 5/10/2023 10:34:52 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Progressive 100+ years ago is not the same thing as progressive today. Yes, it is. |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 10:35:04 AM EDT
[#14]
He was a great president
On a different note, I always wonder what it is GD would like to see in a government. Other than fixing potholes and putting out fires, is there a consensus? |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 10:37:12 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: progressive ? yes. most progressive president in history. trash. thats gotta be a troll post. he was the most popular president in history. his progressive agenda had to do with things like ending child labor, breaking trusts and similar stuff. he built up american military prior to wwI. he was one of the great men of his age. He was a proponent of "industrial socialism" which would evolve into national socialism. He founded national parks in contravention of the Consitution which he swore to uphold, but never let slow him down when he wanted something. He was also an imperialist empire-builder with more than a smattering of "white man's burden". |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 10:41:18 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: .... Creation of the national forests and parks: Hands down the best thing anyone has done in the last 120 years or so. Arguably the defining point of being “American” in a way, rugged individualism. Having space, to go practice that. .... Except for that whole pesky Constitution thing which spells out EXACTLY what the federal government can own and control, especially inside of a State. Guess what isn't listed therein? Parks and forests. Which means that is something reserved to the States themselves. |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 10:41:25 AM EDT
[#17]
On some things he was spot on, on others he was borderline commie.
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Posted: 5/10/2023 10:43:52 AM EDT
[#18]
I hate big government but we need some companies broken up. Google, Facebook, Microsoft, etc should be forced to spin off some of their divisions. Boeing is not allowed to build plane engines, yet google can own YouTube, and gmail.
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Posted: 5/10/2023 10:50:19 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And would rather our forests be Amazon warehouses and Walmart parking lots. What the forests should or shouldn't be is rightfully to be decided by the citizens of the State wherein the forest is found - not some bureaucrats in Washington D.C., who doesn't give a shit about the local needs for housing, tax revenue, resources, etc. Big federal government is bad, even if you enjoy somehting it does - it is fundamentally BAD. Get it? |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 10:51:42 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He did one good thing, establishing the National Park system. Not a good thing. Not permitted under the Constitution. |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 10:53:48 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He was a great president On a different note, I always wonder what it is GD would like to see in a government. Other than fixing potholes and putting out fires, is there a consensus? Putting out fires is a job for private enterprise you fucking commie!!!!! 
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Posted: 5/10/2023 11:00:13 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Same for the Environmental conservation. We absolutely were on path to become stripped out China or India had we not stopped that shit... A lot of GD'ers actually would like that. For some bizarre reason they see nature as a resource to be exploited completely and be stripped raw. Zero fucks given. |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 11:04:17 AM EDT
[#23]
Ronald Reagan was also.
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Posted: 5/10/2023 11:05:56 AM EDT
[#24]
Op you’re not wrong.
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Posted: 5/10/2023 11:14:05 AM EDT
[#25]
Yes, his "progressivism" actually progressed America instead of tearing it apart and retarding it just like Jefferson's "liberalism" expanded knowledge and was inclusive rather than full bore fucking woke karenism.
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Posted: 5/10/2023 11:14:14 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Misreading history is a GD tradition. He'd be considered right of Pinochet by today's standards. WTF is wrong with y'all? This |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 11:15:28 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Progressive means moving forward in a direction. He moved forward in a totally different direction than the progressives today are moving. It's comparing apples to oranges. Um, no it doesn't. Not in the political context. Progressive is a term for activist politics. Specifically to use the Federal government to "make things better" by solving social ills or "making the economy behave." It isn't an apples to oranges comparison. The only difference is one of degree. The philosophy of wanting to use the Federal government as a force to "do good" is identical. Many of the posters in this thread are perfect examples of a statement I once heard. After Roosevelt, all politicians were progressive politicians. Because they have to be. The American people have internalized progressive politics and believe in it down to their core. Even conservatives. Personally, I'd prefer that the Federal government just not do evil. I don't want it to "do good" or make the world a better place. |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 11:23:43 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: True. But he was a big loudmouth who could back it up. So, average guy says “That T.R. is a helluva guy. I’m Voting for him!!” Shot in the chest by an attempted assassin. Went ahead and gave the stump speech. |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 11:26:24 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He helped get the CMP established because the Spanish American war illustrated how bad our soldier's marksmanship was. Establishment of the CMP. So there's that. |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 11:28:54 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He was a great president On a different note, I always wonder what it is GD would like to see in a government. Other than fixing potholes and putting out fires, is there a consensus? Protect the border. Enforce the law equitably. don't get involved in neocon foreign entanglements. |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 11:30:04 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Um, no it doesn't. Not in the political context. Progressive is a term for activist politics. Specifically to use the Federal government to "make things better" by solving social ills or "making the economy behave." It isn't an apples to oranges comparison. The only difference is one of degree. The philosophy of wanting to use the Federal government as a force to "do good" is identical. Many of the posters in this thread are perfect examples of a statement I once heard. After Roosevelt, all politicians were progressive politicians. Because they have to be. The American people have internalized progressive politics and believe in it down to their core. Even conservatives. Personally, I'd prefer that the Federal government just not do evil. I don't want it to "do good" or make the world a better place. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Progressive means moving forward in a direction. He moved forward in a totally different direction than the progressives today are moving. It's comparing apples to oranges. Um, no it doesn't. Not in the political context. Progressive is a term for activist politics. Specifically to use the Federal government to "make things better" by solving social ills or "making the economy behave." It isn't an apples to oranges comparison. The only difference is one of degree. The philosophy of wanting to use the Federal government as a force to "do good" is identical. Many of the posters in this thread are perfect examples of a statement I once heard. After Roosevelt, all politicians were progressive politicians. Because they have to be. The American people have internalized progressive politics and believe in it down to their core. Even conservatives. Personally, I'd prefer that the Federal government just not do evil. I don't want it to "do good" or make the world a better place. True |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 11:43:18 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You could argue that George Washington, leading an Army to force citizens to pay unfair taxes, (Whisky Rebellion)was a large expansion of Government power |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 3:39:53 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He did one good thing, establishing the National Park system. Two good things actually... he established the Civilian Marksmanship Program.  |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 3:56:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: you can't judge him by now, you've got to judge him from then you know, the opposite of what the left likes to do Sure. You can't judge him by the standard of now...but you can look at his and other progressive's policies and determine that it all led up to the clown shoes we're wearing now. None of them existed in a vacuum. western liberalism doesn't have an answer. only full-on right wing authoritarianism rights the ship. |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 4:00:35 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What the forests should or shouldn't be is rightfully to be decided by the citizens of the State wherein the forest is found - not some bureaucrats in Washington D.C., who doesn't give a shit about the local needs for housing, tax revenue, resources, etc. Big federal government is bad, even if you enjoy somehting it does - it is fundamentally BAD. Get it? Congress had already fucked up nearly everything to do with land use and political boundaries by the time TR established the Park Service. Maybe in an ideal world where John Wesley Powell was taken seriously by congress it might have worked out, but even then there have to be limits to the scope of the democratic process and the destruction of natural wonders for profit. The real lesson we should learn from TR is if you split the Republican vote you end up with Woodrow Wilson. |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 4:02:11 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He really pushed himself into the Spanish American war. Whatever his reasoning he definitely backed it up. He got shot before giving a speech. Gave the speech, THEN went for medical care. Reading his biography, he would have fit in well on ARF. |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 4:07:40 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some of you are just absolute fucking assholes who wish we were forced to work 16 hours a day with no labor protection laws.  Wow.... whole other level of stupid right there.... |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 4:08:18 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Complicated subject. Preface: My view is the government is only good to stop the tragedy of the commons. View on trustbusting: Breaking up the Standard Oil trusts was probably over all a bad move. As, the government replaced standard oil trying to balance the oil industry’s boom and bust cycle: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/B643C93B-B226-4C7C-8749-051596ED00F3-2663325.jpg That being said, its later usage is good. Monopolies are not a great thing. That being said, government created duopolies or oligarchies in business are not that great either. That is where we’re at. Creation of the national forests and parks: Hands down the best thing anyone has done in the last 120 years or so. Arguably the defining point of being “American” in a way, rugged individualism. Having space, to go practice that. Creation of labor laws: As someone who’s business, was actually in business then - creation of some labor laws is good. That being said, like anything government can ruin anything. Slippery slope and all. But, mine safety, child labor, etc. separates us from third world shit holes. Build up of the military: Completely depends on your view of the military. I personally think pre-WW2, it was a good thing. However now, again - slippery slope - things go down hill. Military industrial complex has also taken over in a way. Pretty much my take |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 4:23:21 PM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 5/10/2023 4:40:03 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He was a great president On a different note, I always wonder what it is GD would like to see in a government. Other than fixing potholes and putting out fires, is there a consensus? This is the biggest problem with this conversation. On one hand, governments tend to cause more problems than they solve, and they tend to endlessly seek power. On the other hand, there are certain issues that the free market cannot/will not address without being compelled to do so by government. Take, for example, environmental protection/conservation laws and regulation. With the EPA, we have an unchecked federal agency that has killed entire industries, forced millions of jobs overseas, passed mandates that defy physics, and created silliness like cow piss injection for diesel engines. Alternatively, every nation that doesn't have some kind of government mandates for environmental protection turns into a serious shithole with air that will kill you with a slow painful death, water that will kill you with a slow painful death, and huge tracts of land that are rendered unusable for anything. There's a good balance to this problem somewhere in the middle, but most people only acknowledge the extremes. Is this a government problem? To what extent? How do they solve it within the framework of the US Constitution? You can have the same debate about safety standards, labor laws, wildlife conservation, and a number of other subjects. |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 5:36:14 PM EDT
[#41]
TR was the man in the Arena.
OP cleans the toilets at the Arena. |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 5:40:27 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Congress had already fucked up nearly everything to do with land use and political boundaries by the time TR established the Park Service. Maybe in an ideal world where John Wesley Powell was taken seriously by congress it might have worked out, but even then there have to be limits to the scope of the democratic process and the destruction of natural wonders for profit. The real lesson we should learn from TR is if you split the Republican vote you end up with Woodrow Wilson. Ignoring the Constitution is a very bad thing. One would think that being on a gun board, you would understand that. What kind of property is the Federal government allowed to own? "... such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;" Do you see "National Park" any where in that list? |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 5:52:38 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Except for that whole pesky Constitution thing which spells out EXACTLY what the federal government can own and control, especially inside of a State. Guess what isn't listed therein? Parks and forests. Which means that is something reserved to the States themselves. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: .... Creation of the national forests and parks: Hands down the best thing anyone has done in the last 120 years or so. Arguably the defining point of being “American” in a way, rugged individualism. Having space, to go practice that. .... Except for that whole pesky Constitution thing which spells out EXACTLY what the federal government can own and control, especially inside of a State. Guess what isn't listed therein? Parks and forests. Which means that is something reserved to the States themselves. Like states would do that… Broken clock and all that. Edit: You’re from Texas. Go figure. |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 5:55:21 PM EDT
[#44]
For a dude that couldn’t see very well he was s tough motherfucker though.
He also published quite a few books including an extensive American history book in just 10 years.. |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 5:56:31 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I bet this pisses y'all off. This is my Teddy Roosevelt Commemorative Winchester model 94. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/124978/win94_jpg-2811627.JPG His had a Maxim suppressor on it so he could shoot it at Sagamore and not bother his neighbors. 
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Posted: 5/10/2023 6:07:13 PM EDT
[#46]
He hated Italians:
In a letter to his sister, shortly after the lynching of 11 Italian-Americans in New Orleans, Roosevelt said, “Monday we dined at the Camerons; various dago diplomats were present, all much wrought up by the lynching of the Italians in New Orleans. Personally, I think it is rather a good thing, and said so.” |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 6:07:46 PM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 5/10/2023 6:45:40 PM EDT
[#48]
110% concur in total agreement a true communist...!
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Posted: 5/10/2023 6:48:19 PM EDT
[#49]
Social Security!
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Posted: 5/10/2023 6:57:08 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Social Security! Wrong Roosevelt |
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