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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:34:43 PM EDT
[#1]
 For as low as 60 cents a day, We can save our dogs and keep our pistol braces ???? Pretty much sums up pistol braces and ATF |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:34:51 PM EDT
[#2]
sweet, i can remove the brace from my AR and use it without one
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:35:11 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting development Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: According to this even the old style AR pistols with only a buffer tube is now illegal. (4) whether the surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder is created by a buffer tube, receiver extension, or any other accessory, component, or other rearward attachment that is necessary for the cycle of operations; Interesting development What is the max “area” allowed? ETA : no more cane tips.? |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:35:27 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: According to this even the old style AR pistols with only a buffer tube is now illegal. (4) whether the surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder is created by a buffer tube, receiver extension, or any other accessory, component, or other rearward attachment that is necessary for the cycle of operations; |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:36:29 PM EDT
[#5]
So what does this mean for the millions of gun owners who bought a braced pistol from a gun store and have no knowledge of this crap? Just living life as normal until one day “Surprise Felon” out of the blue?
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:36:37 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a 120 days to make my braced pistol legal, but I can't make it legal since my state made it illegal to sell parts earlier this week. It is almost like someone planned it that way. The bigger challenge IIRC is that IL won't let you have an SBR without a C&R FFL. If you want one of those within 120 days, you should send off your application within the next hour. |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:37:17 PM EDT
[#7]
NOPE! Piss off ATF! I am a law abiding citizen and this is unconstitutional so go invest a bag of commie dicks! Everything I own was LEGALLY purchased and I DO NOT RECOGNIZE YOUR RULINGS AS LAW! You are nothing more than EMPLOYEES and NOT ELECTED LAW MAKERS!
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:37:39 PM EDT
[#8]
Question
So what happens if someone has a braced pistol, submits the NFA paperwork. Do they have to wait for the form 1 before they can shoot the gun again? They already have the pistol so..? |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:37:46 PM EDT
[#9]
So what happens if you live in a state that doesn’t allow SBR’s? I don’t plan on complying just asking
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:37:59 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a tax-free registration period. It's been done for individual items multiple times in the past, and has passed judicial scrutiny. |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:38:03 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those dogs who are about to die, I salute you Fuck that shit! My dog has body armor and is faster than the average fat assed ATF employee! |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:38:04 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So what does this mean for the millions of gun owners who bought a braced pistol from a gun store and have no knowledge of this crap? Just living life as normal until one day “Surprise Felon” out of the blue? That is how many cops and prosecutors will treat it after getting tips from other gun owners seeing them at the range |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:38:18 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So what does this mean for the millions of gun owners who bought a braced pistol from a gun store and have no knowledge of this crap? Just living life as normal until one day “Surprise Felon” out of the blue? You say that like this wasn't done by design. |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:38:21 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So what does this mean for the millions of gun owners who bought a braced pistol from a gun store and have no knowledge of this crap? Just living life as normal until one day "Surprise Felon" out of the blue? Felon. Register, turn your shit in or enjoy jail. Meanwhile hundreds of hood rats in Shitcago and other Democrat utopias are running around free as a bird with wish glock switches. |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:38:34 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Saw that. What is the max “area” allowed? ETA : no more cane tips.? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: According to this even the old style AR pistols with only a buffer tube is now illegal. (4) whether the surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder is created by a buffer tube, receiver extension, or any other accessory, component, or other rearward attachment that is necessary for the cycle of operations; Interesting development What is the max “area” allowed? ETA : no more cane tips.? 0" x 0". |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:38:56 PM EDT
[#16]
(1) whether the weapon has a weight or length consistent with the weight or length of similarly designed rifles; (2) whether the weapon has a length of pull, measured from the center of the trigger to the center of the shoulder stock or other rearward accessory, component or attachment (including an adjustable or telescoping attachment with the ability to lock into various positions along a buffer tube, receiver extension, or other attachment method), that is consistent with similarly designed rifles; (3) whether the weapon is equipped with sights or a scope with eye relief that require the weapon to be fired from the shoulder in order to be used as designed; (4) whether the surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder is created by a buffer tube, receiver extension, or any other accessory, component, or other rearward attachment that is necessary for the cycle of operations; (5) the manufacturer’s direct and indirect marketing and promotional materials indicating the intended use of the weapon; and (6) information demonstrating the likely use of the weapon in the general community. Aside from the fact that they don't have the authority to set the criteria for this "objective" test -- numbers 5 and 6 are inherently subjective standards. |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:39:55 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Before Bruen and EPA. And IIRC only to specific models, not to such a broad class. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's a tax-free registration period. It's been done for individual items multiple times in the past, and has passed judicial scrutiny. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Bruen or WV vs EPA to have any effect whatsoever on this |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:40:03 PM EDT
[#18]
So… free form 1s for the next 4 months?
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:40:16 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dropped the 4999 form, but say this in the document: Quote HistoryQuoted: Dropped the 4999 form, but say this in the document: All of the objective design features and factors listed in the rule that indicate the weapon is designed, made, and intended to be fired from the shoulder are derived from the NPRM and proposed Worksheet 4999. Derived from their own non fully published statute that they don't have the authority to create. |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:40:21 PM EDT
[#20]
Wait, am I reading this correctly? It shows a few braces as still being legal, so long as they’re under a certain length, and the pistol doesn’t have a short eye relief scope on it?
So a Tailhook is legal? 
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:40:50 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So what does this mean for the millions of gun owners who bought a braced pistol from a gun store and have no knowledge of this crap? Just living life as normal until one day “Surprise Felon” out of the blue? It means one day a FUDD at the range will rat them out or they will post a pic on social media. Then a diversity hire will send some former action guys, who have been waiting for an opportunity to rack up their first "CONUS kill", to "confiscate the brace". |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:41:26 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How would they know who gets a free stamp for their brace and who's registering a normal SBR? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Wow. It does have the "free stamp" https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/480443/Screenshot_20230113_140703_Samsung_Notes-2670565.JPG If you have to jump through all the other hoops, anyway, just pay the $200 and use a real stock  If it's registered as an SBR then you should be able to use whatever stock you want on it, correct? The upper is what gets registered, not the stock? How would they know who gets a free stamp for their brace and who's registering a normal SBR? ^^^ this. I guess all SBR submissions are free for the next 120 days. The upper does not get registered. The receiver does. |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:41:30 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So… free form 1s for the next 4 months? Lol Not exactly. Don't you have to keep the gay brace on it? |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:41:41 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: According to this even the old style AR pistols with only a buffer tube is now illegal. (4) whether the surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder is created by a buffer tube, receiver extension, or any other accessory, component, or other rearward attachment that is necessary for the cycle of operations; So the “just take it off the buffer tube” option is gone |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:41:43 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is this an amnesty? Because there is nothing in the law that allows an amnesty over 30 days or an amnesty for just 1 item Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Wow. It does have the "free stamp" https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/480443/Screenshot_20230113_140703_Samsung_Notes-2670565.JPG Is this an amnesty? Because there is nothing in the law that allows an amnesty over 30 days or an amnesty for just 1 item It's a Tarp |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:41:45 PM EDT
[#26]
What a fuck story.
 So if registering under the "Free Stamp™" deal, does that mean the "Free Stamp™" only applies to the "brace", OR can you hang a regular stock on it since it's became a SBR? And if one registers for the "Free Stamp™", I'm assuming the firearm has to be engraved with the required NFA info. Maybe the answers are in the .pdf? |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:42:05 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not complying. They said it was okay for ten years, just like bumpstocks. and just like with bumpstocks a criminal used one and the corrupt in DC decided to ban them. The behavior of criminals governs the freedoms of the law abiding. |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:42:18 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fuck em. Take the brace off and put on a bumpstock instead I like the way you think..... |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:42:18 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So… free form 1s for the next 4 months? Not required to make the payment during the 120 days. Doesn't say about after. |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:42:30 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Question So what happens if someone has a braced pistol, submits the NFA paperwork. Do they have to wait for the form 1 before they can shoot the gun again? They already have the pistol so..? Quote HistoryQuoted: Question So what happens if someone has a braced pistol, submits the NFA paperwork. Do they have to wait for the form 1 before they can shoot the gun again? They already have the pistol so..? If you submit within 120 days after publication you are OK. pg 13 Provided the registration form is properly submitted and documented within the defined time period, the Department will consider individuals to be in compliance with the statutory requirements between the date on which a person’s application is filed and the date a person receives ATF approval or disapproval of the application. After the 120- day registration period following publication of this rule, registration of previously made or manufactured weapons with a “stabilizing brace” that constitute NFA firearms will not bepermitted. TheDepartmentatthattimemaytakeenforcementactionagainstany person in possession of an affected firearm that is a short-barreled rifle for which a registration has not been submitted. Apart from registration, there are other options that are set out in section V.B. of this preamble that include modifying affected weapons to remove them from the definition of a short-barreled rifle, destroying the firearm, or surrendering the firearm to lawenforcement. Registeringthefirearmormodifyingtheconfigurationofsucha firearm within the defined time period will enable affected persons to lawfully retain possessionoftheirfirearmunderFederallaw. Whilepossessorsofsuchweaponswill themselves be able to apply the factors outlined in the amended regulatory text, ATF is publishing information simultaneously with this rule that will inform the public of both (1) common weapon platforms with attached “stabilizing brace” designs and (2) examples of commercially available firearms equipped with a “stabilizing brace” that are short-barreled rifles. |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:42:57 PM EDT
[#31]
"Many commenters generally supported the rule. "
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:42:58 PM EDT
[#32]
The only good to come of this is tax free SBR stamps, with that said, I'm keeping the pistols I've always intended on keeping as pistols, as they are. Now, a few guns that I was planning on sbr'ing over the next couple months, yeah, sure. But here goes under one month form 1 times
 Wonder how long this ruling will take to run thru the courts |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:43:06 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Derived from their own non fully published statute that they don't have the authority to create. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Dropped the 4999 form, but say this in the document: All of the objective design features and factors listed in the rule that indicate the weapon is designed, made, and intended to be fired from the shoulder are derived from the NPRM and proposed Worksheet 4999. Derived from their own non fully published statute that they don't have the authority to create.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:43:09 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What about buying one for a registered MG? If you own a MG then you should know anything goes as it supersedes all else. |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:43:38 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: NOPE! Piss off ATF! I am a law abiding citizen and this is unconstitutional so go invest a bag of commie dicks! Everything I own was LEGALLY purchased and I DO NOT RECOGNIZE YOUR RULINGS AS LAW! You are nothing more than EMPLOYEES and NOT ELECTED LAW MAKERS! Fucking this! |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:43:41 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Using an item for something different than its main intended purpose doesn’t magically turn it into something else. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: We got 120 days to register. However, there is an interesting area that they created. Providing you use the brace as is and not shouldering. It is off of the website. So, does this mean I just need to use the brace as required without registering as a NFA item. Using an item for something different than its main intended purpose doesn’t magically turn it into something else. Using your asshole as an entry point and claiming that you are a woman seems to work in clown world....... |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:43:43 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So the “just take it off the buffer tube” option is gone Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: According to this even the old style AR pistols with only a buffer tube is now illegal. (4) whether the surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder is created by a buffer tube, receiver extension, or any other accessory, component, or other rearward attachment that is necessary for the cycle of operations; So the “just take it off the buffer tube” option is gone If true then the ATF not only just banned millions of braces but also all the AR pistols ever sold ever before braces. Almost like they are trying to get this thing shot down in court. |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:43:49 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So what does this mean for the millions of gun owners who bought a braced pistol from a gun store and have no knowledge of this crap? Just living life as normal until one day “Surprise Felon” out of the blue? Yep. And that’s one thing that every one of us should bring up when contacting our reps |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:44:02 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol Not exactly. Don't you have to keep the gay brace on it? |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:44:52 PM EDT
[#40]
What would be funny is, besides outright overturning this, if the ATF was enjoined from enforcing it until every Form 1 in the system was cleared.
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:45:06 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only good to come of this is tax free SBR stamps, with that said, I'm keeping the pistols I've always intended on keeping as pistols, as they are. Now, a few guns that I was planning on sbr'ing over the next couple months, yeah, sure. But here goes under one month form 1 times Wonder how long this ruling will take to run thru the courts Years. In the mean time people will either comply out of fear, or live in fear. Some lives will be ruined. Then, years later, when the court says the ATF was wrong and can't do this, we will cheer. The system works! |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:45:10 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Many commenters generally supported the rule. " Yeah - you know. More than three which is a "few" or two which is only a "couple".
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:45:17 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wait, am I reading this correctly? It shows a few braces as still being legal, so long as they’re under a certain length, and the pistol doesn’t have a short eye relief scope on it? So a Tailhook is legal? https://i.ibb.co/2MyBbrg/0-AF2-C753-0-C65-4-D87-B579-F76074-A995-AC.png The “shouldering” rule is retarded. If you touch a brace to your shoulder, you “redesigned” the weapon to become a rifle. lol |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:45:28 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Many commenters generally supported the rule. " |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:45:40 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well in that case, there goes all the guys who said they would just take the brace off and run it old school. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: According to this even the old style AR pistols with only a buffer tube is now illegal. (4) whether the surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder is created by a buffer tube, receiver extension, or any other accessory, component, or other rearward attachment that is necessary for the cycle of operations; Convert to Rimfire with a buffer tube delete plug? |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:45:44 PM EDT
[#46]
Huh.
If someone didn't register it, the penalty would be same for just throwing a stock on as it would be for converting it to a MG. I guess they didn't think this through. Or they just don't care. Or they actually think people will go along with this in large numbers. Or all the above. Hah. This is going to be fun. |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:45:45 PM EDT
[#47]
Page 232
After publication of the Bump-Stock-Type Devices final rule in December 2018, 158 individual owners turned in between 1 and 63 bump-stock-type devices. Overall, ATF found that people turned in to ATF an average of 2 bump stocks. Therefore, the number of individuals affected by this rule is likely lower than the number of “stabilizing braces” or firearms equipped with a “stabilizing brace” currently in circulation. They're claiming the number of people with braces must be low because only 158 people turned in bump stocks. lol |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:46:22 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Indeed. This has been - from the start - intended to fulfill the goal of removing effective short barreled rifle caliber arms from civilian hands. Other goals exist as well but the "scary" AR/AK/semi auto pistols in rifle calibers? Those have been a target for years. Buh Bye AR Pistols. Commie Fucks. |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:46:33 PM EDT
[#49]
LOL, this thing is TOAST!!!!
When the bumpstock ban got slapped, one of the key reasons was the ATF flip-flopping on decisions. So now buffertubes are no good? After DECADES of being OK? The SB-mini is no good? That was the ONE example they gave in form 4999 that was indeed considered a brace. There is no real objective criteria, this is basically the version from 2020 rehashed into word salad. |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:46:36 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And if one registers for the "Free Stamp™", I'm assuming the firearm has to be engraved with the required NFA info. "For purposes of NFA registration, affected firearms that include the markings required by the GCA can be registered with the original marking if the firearm has already been marked in accordance with 27 CFR 478.92 and 479.102" I think this means no additional engraving required? |
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