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Posted: 3/17/2024 7:32:30 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like Fuddlore to me, my S&W 637 PC Airweight clearly states +P. So idk what hes talking about. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have never read that. Got a source? Sounds like Fuddlore to me, my S&W 637 PC Airweight clearly states +P. So idk what hes talking about. My 642 Airweight states +P on the barrel, it's about 6 years old. The older vintage Airweights were not rated for +P |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 7:55:34 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gold dot for short barrel 135gr. I don’t know if it’s outdated, but it was tops when it came out Quote HistoryQuoted: Gold dot for short barrel 135gr. I don’t know if it’s outdated, but it was tops when it came out Same, My 442 gets this I have a ton of it. I don't shoot the thing much though. I'm sure I'll have enough of this ammo for 10+ years. If it’s an Airweight, DO NOT shoot +P loads in it. They will flame cut the aluminum frame. S&W specifically says no +P in them. Yeah that is just nonsense.... |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 8:10:43 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No longer made because it offered terrible performance through barriers. Not worth the HST name Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Federal HST https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/tested-federal-hst-38-special-p/ https://loungecdn.luckygunner.com/lounge/media/HST-pulled-bullet.jpg No longer made because it offered terrible performance through barriers. Not worth the HST name Right. But, snub nose for me is really close engagement. Not shooting through walls. |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 8:13:09 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have never read that. Got a source? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If it's an Airweight, DO NOT shoot +P loads in it. They will flame cut the aluminum frame. S&W specifically says no +P in them. I run standard loads in mine. If Remington brings back the Critical Defense loads for short barrels, I may grab those. I run them in my Shield, and they are low flash, more than accurate. I have never read that. Got a source? Didn't S&W put the flame shields on some revolvers just above the barrel for this reason? I know both of mine say +p on the barrel so it isn't really an issue |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 8:29:20 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 158 grain lead semi wadcutter hollowpoint + p This man gets it. 
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Posted: 3/17/2024 8:41:32 AM EDT
[#6]
357mag, 4"bbl, 158gr loads, here endeth the lesson!
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Posted: 3/17/2024 9:33:58 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right. But, snub nose for me is really close engagement. Not shooting through walls. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Federal HST https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/tested-federal-hst-38-special-p/ https://loungecdn.luckygunner.com/lounge/media/HST-pulled-bullet.jpg No longer made because it offered terrible performance through barriers. Not worth the HST name Right. But, snub nose for me is really close engagement. Not shooting through walls. Car backings are a perfect example of needing barrier performance at close range. Same with any mugging in or around vehicles. Plus auto glass is a good stand in for bone and the .38 hst sucked |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 10:06:25 AM EDT
[#8]
I carry Gold Dots in my 442:
 This guy gets my Nyclads or Winchester Silvertips (Non +P’s): 
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Posted: 3/17/2024 10:11:30 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If it’s an Airweight, DO NOT shoot +P loads in it. They will flame cut the aluminum frame. S&W specifically says no +P in them. I run standard loads in mine. If Remington brings back the Critical Defense loads for short barrels, I may grab those. I run them in my Shield, and they are low flash, more than accurate. My new production S&W 442 J Frame airweight says on the barrel “.38 spl +p” Also OP I use Federal Punch in my J frame |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 10:21:25 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Car backings are a perfect example of needing barrier performance at close range. Same with any mugging in or around vehicles. Plus auto glass is a good stand in for bone and the .38 hst sucked Check out LuckyGunner, they did a study on them and found really poor performance. Took them out of my J frames that day. |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 10:34:33 AM EDT
[#11]
I have ten 125 grain Smith and Wesson Nyclads left over from the mid-eighties. Too bad they, and Federal, long since discontinued them. I carry them in my 442.
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Posted: 3/17/2024 11:15:00 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn't S&W put the flame shields on some revolvers just above the barrel for this reason? I know both of mine say +p on the barrel so it isn't really an issue Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If it's an Airweight, DO NOT shoot +P loads in it. They will flame cut the aluminum frame. S&W specifically says no +P in them. I run standard loads in mine. If Remington brings back the Critical Defense loads for short barrels, I may grab those. I run them in my Shield, and they are low flash, more than accurate. I have never read that. Got a source? Didn't S&W put the flame shields on some revolvers just above the barrel for this reason? I know both of mine say +p on the barrel so it isn't really an issue The Scandium framed guns have them, I can't recall seeing them on the regular Airweights and glancing at S&W's website it doesn't look like they have them. S&W has done so many different things over the years that it's entirely possible some had them. The early, light weight aluminum framed Air Force guns had special light loads made for them, but as far as I know all of the "Lightweight" series were +P rated. My 642 is an early production but I have no idea where the box and manual for it are at the moment or I'd see what it says. I seem to recall them originally saying not to feed it a steady diet of +P but it was fine for normal carry usage. Most companies rounds are on the anemic side compared to original loading data anyways, that HST round being a good example. I realize that the ratings are based on pressure, not velocity, but just over 800fps is in the standard .38 range as opposed to the more boutique stuff like Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, etc. Some of the earlier loading were unofficially listed as +P+ and clocking over 1500fps, definitely above spec (Norma 110gr)*. *https://revolverguy.com/all-about-the-38-special-p-and-38-special-p/ |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 11:16:37 AM EDT
[#13]
The warning to not use +p in Airweights depends on what time the Airweight was produced. The early ones aren't as durable as the newer ones. Best not to use +p in those guns. Obviously, if it is marked +p, then it is fine to shoot +ps. Lots of the old guns still out there.
For them, I recommend wad-cutters. Wad-cutters aren't a bad choice in any .38. |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 11:21:54 AM EDT
[#14]
Federal Hydra-Shok Deep seems to do well in gel tests, expanding OK and penetrating sufficiently, and it shoots well out of my 37-2, so that's what I carry. And even if expansion fails, the front of hollow point is pretty sharp.
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Posted: 3/17/2024 11:23:00 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I run wadcutters in my J frames. Good penetration and the sharp shoulder on them cuts flesh as well as it cuts paper. This, but I don't have a J frame anymore. The new 442 can be had with no hillary hole also. The FBI load is a HBWC loaded backwards |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 11:25:57 AM EDT
[#16]
When I shoot a hot 38 special round in a small frame, it can sting a little, so I usually Just hold on loosely, but don't let go
If you cling too tightly. You're gonna lose control. 
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Posted: 3/17/2024 11:39:51 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This, but I don't have a J frame anymore. The new 442 can be had with no hillary hole also. The FBI load is a HBWC loaded backwards No, its not. The "FBI Load", also known under several other names, is a lead semi-wadcutter hollow point, 158gr, loaded to +P pressure. |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 11:43:54 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When I shoot a hot 38 special round in a small frame, it can sting a little, so I usually Just hold on loosely, but don't let go If you cling too tightly. You're gonna lose control. you gonna lose it you.... gonna ....... lose.,.. control. |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 11:45:54 AM EDT
[#19]
Wadcutters for me
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Posted: 3/17/2024 11:47:45 AM EDT
[#20]
My choices would be:
Wadcutters or SWC if you need reloads any will work SWCHP- Either Buffalo Bore or RimRock bullets and roll your own. The newer production big box varieties have a harder alloy and don’t expand well. Gold Dots |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 11:55:58 AM EDT
[#21]
I keep the federal micro hst in my cylinder for edc. Backup rounds are golden Sabre to be able to reload faster than hst. I have shot these rounds to get my point of aim established a few times. Now I just practice with reloads and some factory fmj at the range. I don’t have a lot of the carry ammo left in my supply but I may order some more golden sabres soon to have for the range. I don’t usually burn through much carry ammo at the range, just stick to fmj. I based my ammo off of the lucky gunner charts and then tested them through my own 642 for poi
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Posted: 3/17/2024 12:10:25 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Car backings are a perfect example of needing barrier performance at close range. Same with any mugging in or around vehicles. Plus auto glass is a good stand in for bone and the .38 hst sucked Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Federal HST https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/tested-federal-hst-38-special-p/ https://loungecdn.luckygunner.com/lounge/media/HST-pulled-bullet.jpg No longer made because it offered terrible performance through barriers. Not worth the HST name Right. But, snub nose for me is really close engagement. Not shooting through walls. Car backings are a perfect example of needing barrier performance at close range. Same with any mugging in or around vehicles. Plus auto glass is a good stand in for bone and the .38 hst sucked Auto glass also disrupts wadcutters pretty well. I've posted about it before, but it was pretty demoralizing having three of us fire .38 wadcutters (issued ammo reloaded at the range, not idea the velocity,) at the front window of a Popeye's and having the window defeat the rounds---espcially when the 9mm return fire came right through the window with ease. |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 12:14:44 PM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 3/17/2024 12:22:45 PM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 3/17/2024 12:32:04 PM EDT
[#25]
In summer time Hydra Shok Low Recoil 110 Grain. In winter something a little stouter.
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Posted: 3/17/2024 12:35:36 PM EDT
[#26]
This thread is relevant to my interests.
I'm new to J Frames. In January I bought a 640. 35 rounds in and the ratchet/star was coming apart. Off to S&W it went for repair. 2 week turn around and I got it back. 75 rounds of WWB 158gr FMJ later and it seems OK so far. Shoots to point of aim at 15 yards. I was able to put 3/5 or 4/5 on a torso at 40 yards several times. The small size and DAO trigger have been a challenge, but I like it and want to get better. Practice. I recently picked up some Hornady Critical Defense 110gr .38 +P for carry. Should I be looking at something else? |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 12:40:59 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryCan you tell us a little more about those? 
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Posted: 3/17/2024 12:43:30 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right. But, snub nose for me is really close engagement. Not shooting through walls. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Federal HST https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/tested-federal-hst-38-special-p/ https://loungecdn.luckygunner.com/lounge/media/HST-pulled-bullet.jpg No longer made because it offered terrible performance through barriers. Not worth the HST name Right. But, snub nose for me is really close engagement. Not shooting through walls. Windshields were the main problem iirc |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 1:01:26 PM EDT
[#29]
I carry CORBON +P 110gr DPX in my 442.
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Posted: 3/17/2024 1:08:45 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've got a 642 marked the same. He must have read that on the internet. The gun shop counter guy read it on the internet and then told the poster here. THat's what you call Two-factor authentication. Don't get any better than that. |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 1:09:38 PM EDT
[#31]
Anything that goes bang.
Delivered to the THORACIC CAVITY. Or as old-timers would say, “BETWEEN THE SHIRT POCKETS.” |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 1:13:31 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can you tell us a little more about those? Quote HistoryQuoted: Can you tell us a little more about those? They were generously gifted to my son. A 3" m13, a 649, and a detective special. All feel like the real guns and fit the right holsters. I might end up using the m13 for back yard training. |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 1:35:40 PM EDT
[#33]
What's the advantage of wadcutters versus a standard hollow point? Less recoil?
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Posted: 3/17/2024 1:39:44 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They were generously gifted to my son. A 3" m13, a 649, and a detective special. All feel like the real guns and fit the right holsters. I might end up using the m13 for back yard training. Thanks for the reply. The 649 was really interesting. Any idea on a brand? |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 1:43:47 PM EDT
[#35]
I like the hard cast Buffalo Bore standard pressure 150g WC.
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Posted: 3/17/2024 1:45:29 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What's the advantage of wadcutters versus a standard hollow point? Less recoil? A lot of the serious revolver guys gave said that in non +P loads, where expansion is iffy, a waddcutter maximizes giving you the biggest diameter wound channel from non expanding bullets, when compared to FMJ, round nose or JHPs that wont expand. So the wadcutter is making the list for a lot of snubbies for controlability. The thing I have heard is if you go with wadcutters pay attention to the manufacturer as some are loaded very light and can have poor penetration. Also the factory wadcutters can be hard to get and come and go. |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 1:47:54 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I scored some golden sabers 125gr +p off budsgunshop for $24/20. it was 1 of 2 rounds that passed luckygunner's "testing" Eta: Nvm. Here they are best deal I could find https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/143919/remington+ammunition+27617+golden+saber+defense+.38+spc+p+125+gr+brass+jacket+hollow+point+bjhp+20+bx+25+cs+for+compact+h ".38 Special is often considered a bit underpowered, so it's no surprise that most of the loads that we tested were unable to meet those guidelines for penetration and expansion. We fired five rounds of every load through each of the two test guns. If you throw out all the loads that had any failures to sufficiently expand or penetrate, you're left with just two .38 Special loads that met the standards with both of the test guns: the Winchester 130 gr +P Ranger Bonded and the Remington 125 gr +P Golden Saber." https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/377948/AFD6093C-5E18-4F57-9ABA-29F7FF2C6CAD_jpe-3161152.JPG https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/revolver-ammo-commentary/amp/ Yep, and even better in .357 Mag, yet mild enough to be usable. |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 2:02:03 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote History |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 2:58:30 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of the serious revolver guys gave said that in non +P loads, where expansion is iffy, a waddcutter maximizes giving you the biggest diameter wound channel from non expanding bullets, when compared to FMJ, round nose or JHPs that wont expand. So the wadcutter is making the list for a lot of snubbies for controlability. The thing I have heard is if you go with wadcutters pay attention to the manufacturer as some are loaded very light and can have poor penetration. Also the factory wadcutters can be hard to get and come and go. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What's the advantage of wadcutters versus a standard hollow point? Less recoil? A lot of the serious revolver guys gave said that in non +P loads, where expansion is iffy, a waddcutter maximizes giving you the biggest diameter wound channel from non expanding bullets, when compared to FMJ, round nose or JHPs that wont expand. So the wadcutter is making the list for a lot of snubbies for controlability. The thing I have heard is if you go with wadcutters pay attention to the manufacturer as some are loaded very light and can have poor penetration. Also the factory wadcutters can be hard to get and come and go. This. Low Recoil, better wound characteristics then FMJ while penetrating deeper then most HPs that expand at those velocities. |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 3:08:43 PM EDT
[#40]
Berrys 125 plated HP with 6.4 grains of Power Pistol(+p) works well in my 642.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 3:14:25 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If it's an Airweight, DO NOT shoot +P loads in it. They will flame cut the aluminum frame. S&W specifically says no +P in them. I run standard loads in mine. If Remington brings back the Critical Defense loads for short barrels, I may grab those. I run them in my Shield, and they are low flash, more than accurate. That's an impressive amount of derp to shoe horn into one post. 
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Posted: 3/17/2024 3:16:22 PM EDT
[#42]
Weren't there one or two loads that met the FBI criteria, 12 inches penetration and expansion in balistic gel, bare, denim, etc?
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Posted: 3/17/2024 3:19:55 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If it’s an Airweight, DO NOT shoot +P loads in it. They will flame cut the aluminum frame. S&W specifically says no +P in them. I run standard loads in mine. If Remington brings back the Critical Defense loads for short barrels, I may grab those. I run them in my Shield, and they are low flash, more than accurate. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/542867/IMG_6308_jpeg-3161203.JPG My Airlight Titanium does say to use jacketed bullets only. I guess lead projectiles can elongate/jump out of the case due to the recoil. |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 3:25:36 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They were generously gifted to my son. A 3" m13, a 649, and a detective special. All feel like the real guns and fit the right holsters. I might end up using the m13 for back yard training. Co2 powered? I currently carry my j frame with Buffalo Bore either the hard wadcutter or the soft semiwadcutters. |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 3:26:34 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Federal HST https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/tested-federal-hst-38-special-p/ https://loungecdn.luckygunner.com/lounge/media/HST-pulled-bullet.jpg That looks like it wants to scoop a piece of attacker out on the way through 
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Posted: 3/17/2024 4:03:57 PM EDT
[#46]
I was using critical defense and bought projectiles to load my own, now I feel I need to research more.
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Posted: 3/17/2024 4:09:51 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was using critical defense and bought projectiles to load my own, now I feel I need to research more. Might I ask where you found the Critical defense projectiles. |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 6:03:40 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Berrys 125 plated HP with 6.4 grains of Power Pistol(+p) works well in my 642.https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/472049/20200829_215851_jpg-3161770.JPG Does it? What do you base that on? |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 6:08:03 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Speer Gold Dot 135g +P is my go to. Designed for snubbies with plenty of penetration and expansion. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/593326/SnubbieAmmo2_jpg-3161201.JPG I shot an attacking black bear with one back in 2018. 642. The bear turned 180 and ran the other way. Technically, a stop. |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 6:42:10 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn't S&W put the flame shields on some revolvers just above the barrel for this reason? I know both of mine say +p on the barrel so it isn't really an issue They put the flame shields on the .357 magnum J frames. |
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