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Posted: 3/19/2024 5:35:12 PM EDT
[#1]
Wadcutters loaded backwards.
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Posted: 3/19/2024 6:34:04 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When I shoot a hot 38 special round in a small frame, it can sting a little, so I usually Just hold on loosely, but don't let go If you cling too tightly. You're gonna lose control.  so I guess you're one of those pistol fappers |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 6:37:29 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This thread is relevant to my interests. I'm new to J Frames. In January I bought a 640. 35 rounds in and the ratchet/star was coming apart. Off to S&W it went for repair. 2 week turn around and I got it back. 75 rounds of WWB 158gr FMJ later and it seems OK so far. Shoots to point of aim at 15 yards. I was able to put 3/5 or 4/5 on a torso at 40 yards several times. The small size and DAO trigger have been a challenge, but I like it and want to get better. Practice. steel frame good to go for 38 reg and +p I recently picked up some Hornady Critical Defense 110gr .38 +P for carry. Should I be looking at something else? |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 6:53:53 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you shooting non +P in the Colt because its an antique and doesn't say +P? Everything I ever remember reading about that Colt would indicate its gtg with +P even if its not marked as such. especially the ones with the ejector shroud. those are late models |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 6:55:02 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Many hollowpoints fail to expand out of a 1 7/8'' barrel https://cdn-secure.luckygunner.com/media/catalog/product/cache/geltest/860/989d33566becbb8532f516e591b72d66.jpg probably best to use 110 grain for snubs |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 11:52:39 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think the minimum penetration requirement could be shorter and it would be okay. I don't think you're going to get both a) reliable expansion in live tissue and b) enough penetration to reach the heart of an average adult male with a through the right arm broadside shot with .38s out of a snubby. You can pick either, but it should be an informed choice. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Do you have a better repeatable, measurable standard of effectiveness? I think the minimum penetration requirement could be shorter and it would be okay. I don't think you're going to get both a) reliable expansion in live tissue and b) enough penetration to reach the heart of an average adult male with a through the right arm broadside shot with .38s out of a snubby. You can pick either, but it should be an informed choice. I disagree on neglecting the minimum penetration part, but agree that .38 Special out of a 2" revolver is going to get consistent penetration or consistent expansion, but not both. That 110 grn Critical Defense looks like it could maybe do 12" in calibrated gel. .380 has the same issue as .38 from a snub. A handful of .380 loads will expand reliably and penetrate 12", but again, haven't seen any calibrated organic gel tests. https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#380ACP |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 8:09:54 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I disagree on neglecting the minimum penetration part, but agree that .38 Special out of a 2" revolver is going to get consistent penetration or consistent expansion, but not both. That 110 grn Critical Defense looks like it could maybe do 12" in calibrated gel. .380 has the same issue as .38 from a snub. A handful of .380 loads will expand reliably and penetrate 12", but again, haven't seen any calibrated organic gel tests. https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#380ACP Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Do you have a better repeatable, measurable standard of effectiveness? I think the minimum penetration requirement could be shorter and it would be okay. I don't think you're going to get both a) reliable expansion in live tissue and b) enough penetration to reach the heart of an average adult male with a through the right arm broadside shot with .38s out of a snubby. You can pick either, but it should be an informed choice. I disagree on neglecting the minimum penetration part, but agree that .38 Special out of a 2" revolver is going to get consistent penetration or consistent expansion, but not both. That 110 grn Critical Defense looks like it could maybe do 12" in calibrated gel. .380 has the same issue as .38 from a snub. A handful of .380 loads will expand reliably and penetrate 12", but again, haven't seen any calibrated organic gel tests. https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#380ACP For 380, shooting the bull 410 switched to calibrated gel after he narrowed the tested rounds down to those that performed adequately in the initial tests. There was a small number that in calibrated gel penetrated and expanded. I believe Hydra Shok and a few different XTP loads did ok. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 8:11:30 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Underwood in my J frames |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 10:42:37 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For 380, shooting the bull 410 switched to calibrated gel after he narrowed the tested rounds down to those that performed adequately in the initial tests. There was a small number that in calibrated gel penetrated and expanded. I believe Hydra Shok and a few different XTP loads did ok. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Do you have a better repeatable, measurable standard of effectiveness? I think the minimum penetration requirement could be shorter and it would be okay. I don't think you're going to get both a) reliable expansion in live tissue and b) enough penetration to reach the heart of an average adult male with a through the right arm broadside shot with .38s out of a snubby. You can pick either, but it should be an informed choice. I disagree on neglecting the minimum penetration part, but agree that .38 Special out of a 2" revolver is going to get consistent penetration or consistent expansion, but not both. That 110 grn Critical Defense looks like it could maybe do 12" in calibrated gel. .380 has the same issue as .38 from a snub. A handful of .380 loads will expand reliably and penetrate 12", but again, haven't seen any calibrated organic gel tests. https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#380ACP For 380, shooting the bull 410 switched to calibrated gel after he narrowed the tested rounds down to those that performed adequately in the initial tests. There was a small number that in calibrated gel penetrated and expanded. I believe Hydra Shok and a few different XTP loads did ok. That was an extensive test he did. Shame he doesn't post to YouTube anymore:  Ammo Quest .380 Final Wrapup: finding the BEST ammo for a .380ACP pistol |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 10:50:32 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wadcutters loaded backwards. Say what? 
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Posted: 3/20/2024 10:52:26 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Say what? Hes talking about the HBWC Using the hollow base as the front of the bullet Basically a really deep dish hollowpoint 
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Posted: 3/20/2024 11:30:55 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That was an extensive test he did. Shame he doesn't post to YouTube anymore:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNtPHYwcDtsQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Do you have a better repeatable, measurable standard of effectiveness? I think the minimum penetration requirement could be shorter and it would be okay. I don't think you're going to get both a) reliable expansion in live tissue and b) enough penetration to reach the heart of an average adult male with a through the right arm broadside shot with .38s out of a snubby. You can pick either, but it should be an informed choice. I disagree on neglecting the minimum penetration part, but agree that .38 Special out of a 2" revolver is going to get consistent penetration or consistent expansion, but not both. That 110 grn Critical Defense looks like it could maybe do 12" in calibrated gel. .380 has the same issue as .38 from a snub. A handful of .380 loads will expand reliably and penetrate 12", but again, haven't seen any calibrated organic gel tests. https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#380ACP For 380, shooting the bull 410 switched to calibrated gel after he narrowed the tested rounds down to those that performed adequately in the initial tests. There was a small number that in calibrated gel penetrated and expanded. I believe Hydra Shok and a few different XTP loads did ok. That was an extensive test he did. Shame he doesn't post to YouTube anymore: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNtPHYwcDtsAgreed he put a ton of work into 380 and 9mm and it was nice to see the way he tested in both mediums. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 11:49:29 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Say what? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Wadcutters loaded backwards. Say what? Amazing expansion, but not getting much penetration from a backwards .38 HBWC loaded backwards from a 2" barrel. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 1:19:59 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Amazing expansion, but not getting much penetration from a backwards .38 HBWC loaded backwards from a 2" barrel. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Wadcutters loaded backwards. Say what? Amazing expansion, but not getting much penetration from a backwards .38 HBWC loaded backwards from a 2" barrel. I think that was considered a great load back in the day because we figured expansion was good and it did expand reliably. At the time hadn’t really standardized that more penetration was better than more expansion now we do. I believe it was CBP that said back in the day 10” penetration minimum was sufficient, then FBI standardized 12” and it became the accepted minimum. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 2:25:04 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think that was considered a great load back in the day because we figured expansion was good and it did expand reliably. At the time hadn’t really standardized that more penetration was better than more expansion now we do. I believe it was CBP that said back in the day 10” penetration minimum was sufficient, then FBI standardized 12” and it became the accepted minimum. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Wadcutters loaded backwards. Say what? Amazing expansion, but not getting much penetration from a backwards .38 HBWC loaded backwards from a 2" barrel. I think that was considered a great load back in the day because we figured expansion was good and it did expand reliably. At the time hadn’t really standardized that more penetration was better than more expansion now we do. I believe it was CBP that said back in the day 10” penetration minimum was sufficient, then FBI standardized 12” and it became the accepted minimum. What was it, Winchester Silvertips in the Miami gunfight that expanded on the guy's sternum but didn't penetrate, so he kept going? After that, w/ 2 dead agents, the FBI did their caliber study and found that known effective loads penetrated btwn 12 & 18". So now we do clear gel tests & if a load does 11", it's good enough.  IIRC, I'd heard the FBI originally considered 14" a minimum but backed down to 12" b/c of female agents. Never saw any documentation on that. I think 14" is probably the minimum in clear gel. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 2:41:38 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What about federal wadcutters? Handloaded backward for best expansion. 
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Posted: 3/20/2024 3:03:35 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What was it, Winchester Silvertips in the Miami gunfight that expanded on the guy's sternum but didn't penetrate, so he kept going? After that, w/ 2 dead agents, the FBI did their caliber study and found that known effective loads penetrated btwn 12 & 18". So now we do clear gel tests & if a load does 11", it's good enough. IIRC, I'd heard the FBI originally considered 14" a minimum but backed down to 12" b/c of female agents. Never saw any documentation on that. I think 14" is probably the minimum in clear gel. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Wadcutters loaded backwards. Say what? Amazing expansion, but not getting much penetration from a backwards .38 HBWC loaded backwards from a 2" barrel. I think that was considered a great load back in the day because we figured expansion was good and it did expand reliably. At the time hadn’t really standardized that more penetration was better than more expansion now we do. I believe it was CBP that said back in the day 10” penetration minimum was sufficient, then FBI standardized 12” and it became the accepted minimum. What was it, Winchester Silvertips in the Miami gunfight that expanded on the guy's sternum but didn't penetrate, so he kept going? After that, w/ 2 dead agents, the FBI did their caliber study and found that known effective loads penetrated btwn 12 & 18". So now we do clear gel tests & if a load does 11", it's good enough. IIRC, I'd heard the FBI originally considered 14" a minimum but backed down to 12" b/c of female agents. Never saw any documentation on that. I think 14" is probably the minimum in clear gel. ETA: Yes to the Silvertips. Though they’ve been revised over the years and it was specifically the 9mm loading that was used. Though that’s not the only caliber used that day. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 3:06:49 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What was it, Winchester Silvertips in the Miami gunfight that expanded on the guy's sternum but didn't penetrate, so he kept going? After that, w/ 2 dead agents, the FBI did their caliber study and found that known effective loads penetrated btwn 12 & 18". So now we do clear gel tests & if a load does 11", it's good enough. IIRC, I'd heard the FBI originally considered 14" a minimum but backed down to 12" b/c of female agents. Never saw any documentation on that. I think 14" is probably the minimum in clear gel. I'll have to do some rereading and rewatching but I'm pretty sure this is an incorrect recollection of the data points that went into the FBI requirements, which were based on quite silly conclusions. Edit: I'll post some links later when I get back on my computer, but it was a through the right arm hit that stopped about an inch short of Platt's heart. Yes, it was the inability to reach the heart by an inch with a through the right arm broadside hit. It was that, not a lack of preparation and training and grotesque display of abysmal marksmanshit. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 3:29:19 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: I’m almost out of my 38 Special Federal HST Micro. It has been discontinued by Federal. I found the round to be easy ti shoot and very accurate out of my S&W 642. What 38 Special rounds are best for self defense in snubby revolvers? I’m good with regular or +P. Below is my recommendations I've put together on all the research I've seen from several sources: Hornady Critical Defense 110 gr. +p or standard 125 gr.+P Remington Golden Saber or 130 +P Win. Bonded Ranger (As recommended by Lucky Gunner) For guaranteed penetration (no expansion) & reduced recoil - Win. or Double Tap 148 Gr. Wadcutter (something travelling at around 725-750 fps). Federals new Hydra-Shok Deep in 130 Gr. looks promising, but I haven't seen as much info. on it due to it being fairly new. And the .380 version seems to be the only .380 on the market that will give you the FBI min. of 12" from the gel test I've seen. My usual carry is the +P Hornady, 125 gr. +P Golden Saber, and the new Hydra-Shok Deep. And WC's as needed (heavy clothing carry). I always recommend testing out these various loads to make sure they shoot to POA/POI in your particular gun for SD distances. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 5:27:02 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll have to do some rereading and rewatching but I'm pretty sure this is an incorrect recollection of the data points that went into the FBI requirements, which were based on quite silly conclusions. Edit: I'll post some links later when I get back on my computer, but it was a through the right arm hit that stopped about an inch short of Platt's heart. Yes, it was the inability to reach the heart by an inch with a through the right arm broadside hit. It was that, not a lack of preparation and training and grotesque display of abysmal marksmanshit. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What was it, Winchester Silvertips in the Miami gunfight that expanded on the guy's sternum but didn't penetrate, so he kept going? After that, w/ 2 dead agents, the FBI did their caliber study and found that known effective loads penetrated btwn 12 & 18". So now we do clear gel tests & if a load does 11", it's good enough. IIRC, I'd heard the FBI originally considered 14" a minimum but backed down to 12" b/c of female agents. Never saw any documentation on that. I think 14" is probably the minimum in clear gel. I'll have to do some rereading and rewatching but I'm pretty sure this is an incorrect recollection of the data points that went into the FBI requirements, which were based on quite silly conclusions. Edit: I'll post some links later when I get back on my computer, but it was a through the right arm hit that stopped about an inch short of Platt's heart. Yes, it was the inability to reach the heart by an inch with a through the right arm broadside hit. It was that, not a lack of preparation and training and grotesque display of abysmal marksmanshit. It was arm into chest. Out of 8 agents two were killed and five were injured one was basically blind because he lost his glasses another lost his primary weapon. 18 rounds were put into the suspects I don’t remember how many into agents or which side fired how many rounds. You can access the entire case file on fbis website unless it’s been removed since I last looked. I think the biggest teaching point is if you’re going to fight individuals you should take long guns. I believe ammo maybe wasn’t the biggest issue or the only issue but better ammo was needed regardless as was better standards in what constitutes good ammo for duty uses. I also believe regardless of the causes and effects improvements happened as a result. There was also more than just the single shooting used to come up with the 12-18” penetration specifications. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 5:54:51 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What was it, Winchester Silvertips in the Miami gunfight that expanded on the guy's sternum but didn't penetrate, so he kept going? After that, w/ 2 dead agents, the FBI did their caliber study and found that known effective loads penetrated btwn 12 & 18". So now we do clear gel tests & if a load does 11", it's good enough. IIRC, I'd heard the FBI originally considered 14" a minimum but backed down to 12" b/c of female agents. Never saw any documentation on that. I think 14" is probably the minimum in clear gel. I think that one went through his arm first. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 5:57:40 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It was arm into chest. Out of 8 agents two were killed and five were injured one was basically blind because he lost his glasses another lost his primary weapon. 18 rounds were put into the suspects I don’t remember how many into agents or which side fired how many rounds. You can access the entire case file on fbis website unless it’s been removed since I last looked. I think the biggest teaching point is if you’re going to fight individuals you should take long guns. I believe ammo maybe wasn’t the biggest issue or the only issue but better ammo was needed regardless as was better standards in what constitutes good ammo for duty uses. I also believe regardless of the causes and effects improvements happened as a result. There was also more than just the single shooting used to come up with the 12-18” penetration specifications. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: What was it, Winchester Silvertips in the Miami gunfight that expanded on the guy's sternum but didn't penetrate, so he kept going? After that, w/ 2 dead agents, the FBI did their caliber study and found that known effective loads penetrated btwn 12 & 18". So now we do clear gel tests & if a load does 11", it's good enough. IIRC, I'd heard the FBI originally considered 14" a minimum but backed down to 12" b/c of female agents. Never saw any documentation on that. I think 14" is probably the minimum in clear gel. I'll have to do some rereading and rewatching but I'm pretty sure this is an incorrect recollection of the data points that went into the FBI requirements, which were based on quite silly conclusions. Edit: I'll post some links later when I get back on my computer, but it was a through the right arm hit that stopped about an inch short of Platt's heart. Yes, it was the inability to reach the heart by an inch with a through the right arm broadside hit. It was that, not a lack of preparation and training and grotesque display of abysmal marksmanshit. It was arm into chest. Out of 8 agents two were killed and five were injured one was basically blind because he lost his glasses another lost his primary weapon. 18 rounds were put into the suspects I don’t remember how many into agents or which side fired how many rounds. You can access the entire case file on fbis website unless it’s been removed since I last looked. I think the biggest teaching point is if you’re going to fight individuals you should take long guns. I believe ammo maybe wasn’t the biggest issue or the only issue but better ammo was needed regardless as was better standards in what constitutes good ammo for duty uses. I also believe regardless of the causes and effects improvements happened as a result. There was also more than just the single shooting used to come up with the 12-18” penetration specifications. Yeah, even if that 9mm went through the heart it doesn't guarantee a DRT. How many of us have shot animals and shredded their hearts and had them run 50-100 yards. Even without a heart the brain still has 10+ seconds of oxygen stored in it. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 6:58:29 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, even if that 9mm went through the heart it doesn't guarantee a DRT. How many of us have shot animals and shredded their hearts and had them run 50-100 yards. Even without a heart the brain still has 10+ seconds of oxygen stored in it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What was it, Winchester Silvertips in the Miami gunfight that expanded on the guy's sternum but didn't penetrate, so he kept going? After that, w/ 2 dead agents, the FBI did their caliber study and found that known effective loads penetrated btwn 12 & 18". So now we do clear gel tests & if a load does 11", it's good enough. IIRC, I'd heard the FBI originally considered 14" a minimum but backed down to 12" b/c of female agents. Never saw any documentation on that. I think 14" is probably the minimum in clear gel. I'll have to do some rereading and rewatching but I'm pretty sure this is an incorrect recollection of the data points that went into the FBI requirements, which were based on quite silly conclusions. Edit: I'll post some links later when I get back on my computer, but it was a through the right arm hit that stopped about an inch short of Platt's heart. Yes, it was the inability to reach the heart by an inch with a through the right arm broadside hit. It was that, not a lack of preparation and training and grotesque display of abysmal marksmanshit. It was arm into chest. Out of 8 agents two were killed and five were injured one was basically blind because he lost his glasses another lost his primary weapon. 18 rounds were put into the suspects I don’t remember how many into agents or which side fired how many rounds. You can access the entire case file on fbis website unless it’s been removed since I last looked. I think the biggest teaching point is if you’re going to fight individuals you should take long guns. I believe ammo maybe wasn’t the biggest issue or the only issue but better ammo was needed regardless as was better standards in what constitutes good ammo for duty uses. I also believe regardless of the causes and effects improvements happened as a result. There was also more than just the single shooting used to come up with the 12-18” penetration specifications. Yeah, even if that 9mm went through the heart it doesn't guarantee a DRT. How many of us have shot animals and shredded their hearts and had them run 50-100 yards. Even without a heart the brain still has 10+ seconds of oxygen stored in it. Absolutely happens a lot and your talking with long guns not service pistols |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 8:30:03 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It was arm into chest. Out of 8 agents two were killed and five were injured one was basically blind because he lost his glasses another lost his primary weapon. 18 rounds were put into the suspects I don’t remember how many into agents or which side fired how many rounds. You can access the entire case file on fbis website unless it’s been removed since I last looked. I think the biggest teaching point is if you’re going to fight individuals you should take long guns. I believe ammo maybe wasn’t the biggest issue or the only issue but better ammo was needed regardless as was better standards in what constitutes good ammo for duty uses. I also believe regardless of the causes and effects improvements happened as a result. There was also more than just the single shooting used to come up with the 12-18” penetration specifications. Correct. When I get on my computer I'll dig up links, or someone else can do it. Doesn't matter. My point relevant to this thread is that I actually think, for what .38 snubs are for, it's probably okay that a Hornady 110 gr. FTX bullet wouldn't have reached Platt's heart either, given the same route as the particular bullet in question. It expands. It creates about as much damage as you can realistically expect from a handgun bullet until it runs out of momentum. Which, it doesn't have a whole lot of momentum to work with but that's the catch with .38 snubs. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 8:41:10 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have never read that. Got a source? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If it's an Airweight, DO NOT shoot +P loads in it. They will flame cut the aluminum frame. S&W specifically says no +P in them. I run standard loads in mine. If Remington brings back the Critical Defense loads for short barrels, I may grab those. I run them in my Shield, and they are low flash, more than accurate. I have never read that. Got a source? This. My Airweight(637) is even engraved .38 +P on the barrel. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 8:43:42 PM EDT
[#26]
Point for Hornady Critical Defense
I find the rounded shape of the round makes reloading much less error prone |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 8:46:18 PM EDT
[#27]
158 gr LSWC-HP w/ GC from rimrock bullets.
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Posted: 3/21/2024 8:08:28 AM EDT
[#28]
My recommendations are as follows:
Hornady Critical Defense 110 gr standard pressure. From what I have seen the standard pressure penetrates more reliably because it expands slightly less. Speer Gold Dot 135gr +P Wadcutters, they won't expand obviously but you will get reliable penetration. As others have mentioned, about 750 fps seems to be the sweet spot. I have some Underwood Wadcutters but Georgia Arms has been loading wad cutters for snubs. I'm currently carrying Federal Hydra-shok Deep 130 gr +P. It has a promising jacket design that looks like it should open easier than "traditional" hollow points. But even when it expands the projectile is like a wadcutter.  |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 10:29:05 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My recommendations are as follows: Hornady Critical Defense 110 gr standard pressure. From what I have seen the standard pressure penetrates more reliably because it expands slightly less. Speer Gold Dot 135gr +P Wadcutters, they won't expand obviously but you will get reliable penetration. As others have mentioned, about 750 fps seems to be the sweet spot. I have some Underwood Wadcutters but Georgia Arms has been loading wad cutters for snubs. I'm currently carrying Federal Hydra-shok Deep 130 gr +P. It has a promising jacket design that looks like it should open easier than "traditional" hollow points. But even when it expands the projectile is like a wadcutter. https://www.federalpremium.com/dw/image/v2/BKSZ_PRD/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-vista-master-catalog/default/dwf3c67aed/images/large/FP_P38HSD1_38SplHydraShokDeep_Bare_C.jpg?sw=800&sh=800&sm=fit Glad to see GA is in operation again after the fire |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 4:20:24 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Underwood in my J frames I like Underwood and also tha Sellier and Bellot XRG defense ammo in .38.......it works pretty good out of a snub nose I also like soft points from time to time...... |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 7:22:04 PM EDT
[#31]
Those that load coated wadcutters, what is your favorite place to buy from online?
Fixing to start loading for a .38 special |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 11:05:31 PM EDT
[#32]
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Posted: 3/22/2024 8:54:21 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn't S&W put the flame shields on some revolvers just above the barrel for this reason? I know both of mine say +p on the barrel so it isn't really an issue Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If it's an Airweight, DO NOT shoot +P loads in it. They will flame cut the aluminum frame. S&W specifically says no +P in them. I run standard loads in mine. If Remington brings back the Critical Defense loads for short barrels, I may grab those. I run them in my Shield, and they are low flash, more than accurate. I have never read that. Got a source? Didn't S&W put the flame shields on some revolvers just above the barrel for this reason? I know both of mine say +p on the barrel so it isn't really an issue |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 7:57:52 PM EDT
[#34]
I chronographed two factory 148 grain wadcutter loads out of my 1 7/8" 642.
GECO:565 fps MAGTECH:640 fps MAGTECH 125 gr Flat point FMJ was 876 fps, and a bit uncomfortable. so I will carry the Magtech wadcutters in the gun and the 125s for reloads |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 8:03:14 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They put them on the 329PD. I don't know about the other PD's. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If it's an Airweight, DO NOT shoot +P loads in it. They will flame cut the aluminum frame. S&W specifically says no +P in them. I run standard loads in mine. If Remington brings back the Critical Defense loads for short barrels, I may grab those. I run them in my Shield, and they are low flash, more than accurate. I have never read that. Got a source? Didn't S&W put the flame shields on some revolvers just above the barrel for this reason? I know both of mine say +p on the barrel so it isn't really an issue All of the Scandium framed guns as near as I can tell. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 8:04:47 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I chronographed two factory 148 grain wadcutter loads out of my 1 7/8" 642. GECO:565 fps MAGTECH:640 fps MAGTECH 125 gr Flat point FMJ was 876 fps, and a bit uncomfortable. so I will carry the Magtech wadcutters in the gun and the 125s for reloads Damn Geco |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 8:04:57 PM EDT
[#37]
I got some of the Underwood wadcutters and am going to get the Ga Arms wadcutters and try them out
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Posted: 3/27/2024 8:08:22 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: I’m almost out of my 38 Special Federal HST Micro. It has been discontinued by Federal. I found the round to be easy ti shoot and very accurate out of my S&W 642. What 38 Special rounds are best for self defense in snubby revolvers? I’m good with regular or +P. Hornady would be my 2nd choice for a snub HST micro was a amazing round, indisputably the best for snubs, but the market for it is just not very large |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 8:13:09 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hes talking about the HBWC Using the hollow base as the front of the bullet Basically a really deep dish hollowpoint https://reloadingunlimited.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Hornady38HBWC.jpg I can’t be the only person wondering what would happen if a 209 shotgun primer was stuffed into that reversed wadcutter…… |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 8:24:22 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryMeat target. 
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Posted: 3/27/2024 8:27:56 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hornady would be my 2nd choice for a snub HST micro was a amazing round, indisputably the best for snubs, but the market for it is just not very large Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I’m almost out of my 38 Special Federal HST Micro. It has been discontinued by Federal. I found the round to be easy ti shoot and very accurate out of my S&W 642. What 38 Special rounds are best for self defense in snubby revolvers? I’m good with regular or +P. Hornady would be my 2nd choice for a snub HST micro was a amazing round, indisputably the best for snubs, but the market for it is just not very large Hst was a horrible round in the 38. Almost as bad as reversed wadcutters |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 8:40:39 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I chronographed two factory 148 grain wadcutter loads out of my 1 7/8" 642. GECO:565 fps MAGTECH:640 fps MAGTECH 125 gr Flat point FMJ was 876 fps, and a bit uncomfortable. so I will carry the Magtech wadcutters in the gun and the 125s for reloads I crono’d the double tap 148 WC at around 730 fps. And I think it ships for free from their site. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 8:58:50 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hst was a horrible round in the 38. Almost as bad as reversed wadcutters Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I’m almost out of my 38 Special Federal HST Micro. It has been discontinued by Federal. I found the round to be easy ti shoot and very accurate out of my S&W 642. What 38 Special rounds are best for self defense in snubby revolvers? I’m good with regular or +P. Hornady would be my 2nd choice for a snub HST micro was a amazing round, indisputably the best for snubs, but the market for it is just not very large Hst was a horrible round in the 38. Almost as bad as reversed wadcutters  to both of you. Not great, not terrible:https://www.luckygunner.com/38-special-p-130-gr-hst-jhp-personal-defense-micro-federal-20-rounds#geltest 
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Posted: 3/27/2024 9:01:52 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hst was a horrible round in the 38. Almost as bad as reversed wadcutters Could have sworn hst micro was tested many times and was a solid performer out of snubs? |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 9:08:27 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I’m almost out of my 38 Special Federal HST Micro. It has been discontinued by Federal. I found the round to be easy ti shoot and very accurate out of my S&W 642. What 38 Special rounds are best for self defense in snubby revolvers? I’m good with regular or +P. Hornady would be my 2nd choice for a snub HST micro was a amazing round, indisputably the best for snubs, but the market for it is just not very large Hst was a horrible round in the 38. Almost as bad as reversed wadcutters to both of you. Not great, not terrible:https://www.luckygunner.com/38-special-p-130-gr-hst-jhp-personal-defense-micro-federal-20-rounds#geltest https://cdn-secure.luckygunner.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/geltest/860/31694206044cafb3060e1e9775199a51.jpg Clear gel It couldn't reliably get to 12" and only gets to 1-2" after auto glass https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?29816-38-Special-HST-130gr-P-in-Organic-Gel |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 9:09:42 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Could have sworn hst micro was tested many times and was a solid performer out of snubs? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Hst was a horrible round in the 38. Almost as bad as reversed wadcutters Could have sworn hst micro was tested many times and was a solid performer out of snubs? Youtubers said it was great because it expands well and they'd shoot clear gel which is a worthless media to shoot. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 9:16:20 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryThat looks decent to me. If this is not decent performance from a snubby What exactly are we all wanting out of a snubby compared to this example? |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 9:17:21 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Clear gel It couldn't reliably get to 12" and only gets to 1-2" after auto glass https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?29816-38-Special-HST-130gr-P-in-Organic-Gel Is that hst or hst micro? Is there a difference? |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 9:18:29 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Youtubers said it was great because it expands well and they'd shoot clear gel which is a worthless media to shoot. I carry golden sabers in my j frame. Hopefully it’s enough if needed |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 9:19:33 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That looks decent to me. If this is not decent performance from a snubby What exactly are we all wanting out of a snubby compared to this example? Quote HistoryQuoted: That looks decent to me. If this is not decent performance from a snubby What exactly are we all wanting out of a snubby compared to this example? At least 14" in clear gel, & all rounds fired beyond the finish line. Penetration first, expansion second. |
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