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Posted: 6/16/2024 3:13:26 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just listen to yourself. The U.S. "tried to start WWIII" over Cuba, but the Soviets clandestinely putting the nukes there in the first place, and lying about it to the world when caught, was not "trying to start WWIII?" The plan for the denuclearization of Ukraine and the reassurances of territorial sovereignty from Russia predate the Budapest memorandum. The latter was just when the West got involved. Ukraine didn't want nukes, Russia wanted the nukes, and ultimately Ukraine wanted assurances in response. Your whole understanding of history reads like so many others here, a piecemeal, cherry-picked narrative leaving out key facts in order to advance the classic whataboutism, fearmongering, and moral equivalency of the Kremlin narrative. I never said the US tried to start WWIII, I said we almost started it. And rightly so as Soviet nukes in Cuba was unacceptable due to the short flight times. Likewise we dismantled our nukes in Turkey to appease the Soviet concerns. But we started that pissing contest by putting Nukes in Europe and Turkey. It was a give and take diplomatic solution, and it worked for the time. Nothing being cherry-picked there, that is what happened. But anyways I was commenting on the absurdity of giving Ukraine nukes, which no one with any knowledge of the region thinks is a good idea. There was a time when everyone understood that starting shit with another nuclear power wasn't the best foreign policy. That was pretty much the whole period of the Cold War after the Cuban Missile Crisis. The dipshit Neocons have forgotten those lessons just because we were able to beat up some 3rd world shitholes like Iraq and Afghanistan. Nevermind we lost the strategic advantage in both of those conflicts... |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 3:18:22 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And dissenting opinions wouldn't be met with accusations of being Russian apologists or called assholes.  So many CoC violations going on in this thread-it's going to be nuked pretty soon methinks. Nick Not really though. You can disagree with sending money, sure. That's a legitimate opinion. But you don't need to post Russian propaganda to justify it, e.g. Z's wife is spending US tax payers money on a yacht, or the CIA created a coup. There is a difference. And the propaganda completely undermines a legitimate opinion. |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 3:21:25 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have seen the word cult get thrown around in the past, but it really is like those one-off churches where you cant get into specifics about their doctrine without being called nasty names or a puppet of satan Specifics like how the first defense minister of the DPR, FSB agent Igor Girkin, is a Russian FSB agent who has publicly commented on his role in creating the war? For some reason you and Kihn never want to talk about him. |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 3:29:10 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ANd I have said the exact thing, so, you are either a liar or didn't bother to read the thread. I have said in this every thread that Ukrainians have every right to fight for as much territory as they want for as long as they want--and that is fine. However, the part you seem to miss, being a two-dimentional thinker, is where the US is obligated to support this effort and how in God's name an American not wanting to support said effort is "un-American." There is nothing "American" about Ukraine. They don't believe in our values, rather their own socialist European version of Government. Of course they can fight if they want to, but they are ONLY fighting because we have decided to commit to their aide, which without it would make fighting impossible. Cutting off all US Aide would end the war quicker than just about anything, because the Europeans are either unwilling or unable to provide what they need. |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 3:30:20 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Specifics like how the first defense minister of the DPR, FSB agent Igor Girkin, is a Russian FSB agent who has publicly commented on his role in creating the war? For some reason you and Kihn never want to talk about him. And the old, now dead, leader of Wagner who said the Kremlin manufactured the war. |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 3:33:05 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is nothing "American" about Ukraine. They don't believe in our values, rather their own socialist European version of Government. Of course they can fight if they want to, but they are ONLY fighting because we have decided to commit to their aide, which without it would make fighting impossible. Cutting off all US Aide would end the war quicker than just about anything, because the Europeans are either unwilling or unable to provide what they need. The EU doesn't have the weapons. Remember when they ran out of bombs ousting Gaddafi? But they have allocated 300bn Euro to help get off Russian gas. So they're paying, but not with weapons. |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 3:36:33 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: You ok giving up part of Texas to a foreign country? How about any American soil? What would we do as a country if we were in their shoes? We would fight to reclaim the lands, pay for it ourselves with our own money, and not shamefully point fingers and blame other countries for not giving us enough cash and gear. |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 3:45:29 PM EDT
[#8]
The MIC and politicians say there is no reason to stop this war. There are still plenty of young Ukrainians left.
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Posted: 6/16/2024 4:08:51 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The EU doesn't have the weapons. Remember when they ran out of bombs ousting Gaddafi? But they have allocated 300bn Euro to help get off Russian gas. So they're paying, but not with weapons. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There is nothing "American" about Ukraine. They don't believe in our values, rather their own socialist European version of Government. Of course they can fight if they want to, but they are ONLY fighting because we have decided to commit to their aide, which without it would make fighting impossible. Cutting off all US Aide would end the war quicker than just about anything, because the Europeans are either unwilling or unable to provide what they need. The EU doesn't have the weapons. Remember when they ran out of bombs ousting Gaddafi? But they have allocated 300bn Euro to help get off Russian gas. So they're paying, but not with weapons. And why is this the case, do you think? |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 4:26:27 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is nothing "American" about Ukraine. They don't believe in our values, rather their own socialist European version of Government. Of course they can fight if they want to, but they are ONLY fighting because we have decided to commit to their aide, which without it would make fighting impossible. Cutting off all US Aide would end the war quicker than just about anything, because the Europeans are either unwilling or unable to provide what they need. There is no 'THEY' going on in Ukraine currently brother. THEY / The people, can't do jack or shit to replace their so called 'leaders'. Their 'Presidential elections' are past due and not going to happen any time soon as long as they are still under martial law. Opposition parties are banned, Elections are halted, and DEMOCRACY is thus protected dude.  Their 'people' are going to continue to be used as cannon fodder to fight our proxy war for a while still because they have no legal 'choice' in the matter and because they don't have the balls to take a stand against their current masters.  Not counting all of the other countries that have given the middle finger to out 'sanctions regime'...  That partnership alone ought to speak volumes and pretty much spell out where this will all eventually end up at. (what happens when you force big enemies together...) |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 4:29:00 PM EDT
[#11]
If I understand this, Putin is winning his 10 day denazification of Ukraine so well he now wants to stop and negotiate a peace settlement. Why now when an apparent total Russian victory (according to some) and Ukrainian surrender is just around the corner.
Could it be all is not well on the home front economically and Putin is looking for an exit ramp without losing face? |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 4:39:42 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I understand this, Putin is winning his 10 day denazification of Ukraine so well he now wants to stop and negotiate a peace settlement. Why now when an apparent total Russian victory (according to some) and Ukrainian surrender is just around the corner. Could it be all is not well on the home front economically and Putin is looking for an exit ramp without losing face? People in a power position typically aren’t the ones to start negotiating first so you are probably correct. Russia has the GDP of Texas in the best of times. |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 4:51:26 PM EDT
[#13]
I’m back for a few chuckles at the takes in this thread lol.
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Posted: 6/16/2024 4:57:59 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Specifics like how the first defense minister of the DPR, FSB agent Igor Girkin, is a Russian FSB agent who has publicly commented on his role in creating the war? For some reason you and Kihn never want to talk about him. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have seen the word cult get thrown around in the past, but it really is like those one-off churches where you cant get into specifics about their doctrine without being called nasty names or a puppet of satan Specifics like how the first defense minister of the DPR, FSB agent Igor Girkin, is a Russian FSB agent who has publicly commented on his role in creating the war? For some reason you and Kihn never want to talk about him. The same Girkin that, a few months earlier, had forced the Crimean Parliament to vote for “secession “ at gunpoint?  |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 5:07:57 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can disagree with sending money, sure. That's a legitimate opinion. But you don't need to post Russian propaganda to justify it, e.g. Z's wife is spending US tax payers money on a yacht, or the CIA created a coup. There is a difference. And the propaganda completely undermines a legitimate opinion. Ok.your question. Why the flip isn't the US government providing enough aid? A yacht, meaning singular. That's stupid. There should be one for the Pacific, one for the Atlantic, another for the Mediterranean Sea. Stop being a limp Weiner ETA, She needs another yacht in the Indian ocean. Equipped with it's own curry chef. |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 5:12:52 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not really though. You can disagree with sending money, sure. That's a legitimate opinion. But you don't need to post Russian propaganda to justify it, e.g. Z's wife is spending US tax payers money on a yacht, or the CIA created a coup. There is a difference. And the propaganda completely undermines a legitimate opinion. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: And dissenting opinions wouldn't be met with accusations of being Russian apologists or called assholes. So many CoC violations going on in this thread-it's going to be nuked pretty soon methinks. Nick Not really though. You can disagree with sending money, sure. That's a legitimate opinion. But you don't need to post Russian propaganda to justify it, e.g. Z's wife is spending US tax payers money on a yacht, or the CIA created a coup. There is a difference. And the propaganda completely undermines a legitimate opinion. But that's not totally true, the name calling is not limited to "propaganda." |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 5:19:45 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: and how in God's name an American not wanting to support said effort is "un-American." You complain about this, but just a few days ago you called people here who support Ukraine "almost treasonous". Im sure you have a rationalization, but you did the exact same you are complaining about. |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 5:20:47 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And why is this the case, do you think? I'd like to say they don't spend enough, but the UK does and still ran out. |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 5:24:50 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You complain about this, but just a few days ago you called people here who support Ukraine "almost treasonous". Im sure you have a rationalization, but you did the exact same you are complaining about. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: and how in God's name an American not wanting to support said effort is "un-American." You complain about this, but just a few days ago you called people here who support Ukraine "almost treasonous". Im sure you have a rationalization, but you did the exact same you are complaining about. It was a comment on how the fanaticism for a foreign country over their own can appear to be almost treasonous in its intensity. And yes, some of that fanaticism certainly looks that way. However, please point out where I actually called someone a traitor rather than reflecting on the fanatical position. You dishonestly have mischaracterized what I posted, which is why you didn’t actually quote the actual post. Show me where I called anyone a traitor. I’ll wait. |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 5:43:44 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But was the Soviet Union Russian? Yes. Lenin. Satlin. Trotsky. Dzerzhinsky. Kerensky. All Russians according to the czar. You can hyphenate tho. Its a current commie thing. Eta: are you playing sematics with the word 'committee'?That's the eqivalent of being a spelling Nazi or part of the Dupe police... |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 5:52:17 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes. Lenin. Satlin. Trotsky. Dzerzhinsky. Kerensky. All Russians according to the czar. You can hyphenate tho. Its a commie thing. Eta: are playing sematics with the word 'committee'?That's the eqivalent of being spelling Nazi or part of the Dupe police... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: But was the Soviet Union Russian? Yes. Lenin. Satlin. Trotsky. Dzerzhinsky. Kerensky. All Russians according to the czar. You can hyphenate tho. Its a commie thing. Eta: are playing sematics with the word 'committee'?That's the eqivalent of being spelling Nazi or part of the Dupe police... Stalin was Georgian. |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 5:55:13 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Stalin was Georgian. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: But was the Soviet Union Russian? Yes. Lenin. Satlin. Trotsky. Dzerzhinsky. Kerensky. All Russians according to the czar. You can hyphenate tho. Its a commie thing. Eta: are playing sematics with the word 'committee'?That's the eqivalent of being spelling Nazi or part of the Dupe police... Stalin was Georgian. But it was part of czarist Russia. Technically, Dzerzhinsky was Polish. |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 5:57:25 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But it was part of czarist Russia. Technically, Dzerzinsky was Polish. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: But was the Soviet Union Russian? Yes. Lenin. Satlin. Trotsky. Dzerzhinsky. Kerensky. All Russians according to the czar. You can hyphenate tho. Its a commie thing. Eta: are playing sematics with the word 'committee'?That's the eqivalent of being spelling Nazi or part of the Dupe police... Stalin was Georgian. But it was part of czarist Russia. Technically, Dzerzinsky was Polish. Sure. However, if that’s the standard, the Ukraine was the Soviet Union as well because it was part of czarist Russia too. The geopolitical history of the region is not a simple one. |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 6:00:43 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It was a comment on how the fanaticism for a foreign country over their own can appear to be almost treasonous in its intensity. And yes, some of that fanaticism certainly looks that way. However, please point out where I actually called someone a traitor rather than reflecting on the fanatical position. You dishonestly have mischaracterized what I posted, which is why you didn't actually quote the actual post. Show me where I called anyone a traitor. I'll wait. There is no dishonesty or mischaracterization. I didn't say anything to your original statement cause I've pretty much stayed out of posting in Ukraine threads now, but when you complained about being called unAmerican for not supporting Ukraine, you are right to complain about that. But don't go calling all posters here who support Ukraine almost traitors, which saying their support level is near treasonous is the same thing. |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 6:05:16 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure. However, if that’s the standard, the Ukraine was the Soviet Union as well because it was part of czarist Russia too. The geopolitical history of the region is not a simple one. True. UKRAINE was an ethnicity that Lenin and Trotsky said were free to go their own way after October Revolution. Same for the Poles, Swedes and Finns. We saw how that worked out. Ukraine wasn't ever a state until 1922. It was the ethnic region of Cossacks. IIRC LENIN was a Kazanian.(from Kazan) |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 6:05:17 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ron said most people here who support Ukraine have families or financial connections to Ukraine, to which you added "With an almost treasonous level of loyalty to a foreign nation". There is no dishonesty or mischaracterization. I didn't say anything to your original statement cause I've pretty much stayed out of posting in Ukraine threads now, but when you complained about being called unAmerican for not supporting Ukraine, you are right to complain about that. But don't go calling all posters here who support Ukraine almost traitors, which saying their support level is near treasonous is the same thing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It was a comment on how the fanaticism for a foreign country over their own can appear to be almost treasonous in its intensity. And yes, some of that fanaticism certainly looks that way. However, please point out where I actually called someone a traitor rather than reflecting on the fanatical position. You dishonestly have mischaracterized what I posted, which is why you didn't actually quote the actual post. Show me where I called anyone a traitor. I'll wait. There is no dishonesty or mischaracterization. I didn't say anything to your original statement cause I've pretty much stayed out of posting in Ukraine threads now, but when you complained about being called unAmerican for not supporting Ukraine, you are right to complain about that. But don't go calling all posters here who support Ukraine almost traitors, which saying their support level is near treasonous is the same thing. Nope. Put up the actual post, both mine and Ron’s so the actual words can be seen in context rather than your mischaracterization. Firstly, neither Ron nor I said “all”, by your own quoting, so that is obvious misharacterization #1. @Ron |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 6:07:20 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope. Put up the actual post, both mine and Ron's so the actual words can be seen in context rather than your mischaracterization. Firstly, neither Ron nor I said "all" so that is obvious misharscterization #1. @Ron |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 6:12:45 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, most instead of all Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Nope. Put up the actual post, both mine and Ron's so the actual words can be seen in context rather than your mischaracterization. Firstly, neither Ron nor I said "all" so that is obvious misharscterization #1. @Ron Right, so a mischaracterization right out of the gate. Given that you've lready invented somethign that wasn't there, think it's possible that you might have misinterpreteed the whole exchange? Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 6:13:29 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope. Put up the actual post, both mine and Ron's so the actual words can be seen in context rather than your mischaracterization. Firstly, neither Ron nor I said "all", by your own quoting, so that is obvious misharacterization #1. @Ron Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope. Put up the actual post, both mine and Ron's so the actual words can be seen in context rather than your mischaracterization. Firstly, neither Ron nor I said "all", by your own quoting, so that is obvious misharacterization #1. @Ron Ron said most people here who support Ukraine have families or financial connections to Ukraine, to which you added "With an almost treasonous level of loyalty to a foreign nation".  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 6:21:59 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You say I mischaracterize but show me the mischaracterization between what I posted here and what was actually posted below. There is none. I posted your direct quote and a very accurate summation from Ron. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/184365/IMG_8801_jpeg-3243090.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Nope. Put up the actual post, both mine and Ron's so the actual words can be seen in context rather than your mischaracterization. Firstly, neither Ron nor I said "all", by your own quoting, so that is obvious misharacterization #1. @Ron Ron said most people here who support Ukraine have families or financial connections to Ukraine, to which you added "With an almost treasonous level of loyalty to a foreign nation". https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/184365/IMG_8801_jpeg-3243090.JPG First of all, the actual post that you finally quoted, is different than what you first posted just a few days ago you called people here who support Ukraine "almost treasonous". |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 6:31:34 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: First of all, the actual post that you finally quoted, is different than what you first posted Now that you've actually read the thing again, you've slid that back because you know you got busted. And Ron said that most people who support have family or business connections. Not "all" as you initially claimed. And yest, I said "With an almost treasonous level of loyalty to a foreign nation". ALMOST. ALMOST I didn't call anyone a traitor. However, what I did point out and thruthfully, that some people certainly do have a level of loyalty to a foreign nation that certainly does seem almost treasonous. How else would one characterize someone who flies the flag of a foreign nation and puts the needs of said foreign nation above their own. How would you characterize the actions of LtCol Vinman, for example? If people don't want the appearance of disloyalty, they shouldn't behave in a manner that looks disloyal. I never called anyone a traitor. ONCE. And I stand by what I said. Calling most here who support Ukraine almost treasonous is bullcrap, same as them calling you unAmerican. And this is why I've backed out of Ukraine threads. Same shit, round and round, ruining what I like about this place. I still like you bro, no homo. 
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Posted: 6/16/2024 6:35:07 PM EDT
[#32]
Borrowing money for anything hurts this country, the term term treasonous is not appropriat since that has a constitutionally defined meaning
But it certainly is against this country’s interest to do it, and doing it for the aid and comfort of another country is certainly not what someone who puts this country first would ever do. |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 6:36:49 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like I said initially, I'm sure you have some rationalization, which you do. And I stand by what I said. Calling most here who support Ukraine almost treasonous is bullcrap, same as them calling you unAmerican. And this is why I've backed out of Ukraine threads. Same shit, round and round, ruining what I like about this place. I still like you bro, no homo. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: First of all, the actual post that you finally quoted, is different than what you first posted Now that you've actually read the thing again, you've slid that back because you know you got busted. And Ron said that most people who support have family or business connections. Not "all" as you initially claimed. And yest, I said "With an almost treasonous level of loyalty to a foreign nation". ALMOST. ALMOST I didn't call anyone a traitor. However, what I did point out and thruthfully, that some people certainly do have a level of loyalty to a foreign nation that certainly does seem almost treasonous. How else would one characterize someone who flies the flag of a foreign nation and puts the needs of said foreign nation above their own. How would you characterize the actions of LtCol Vinman, for example? If people don't want the appearance of disloyalty, they shouldn't behave in a manner that looks disloyal. I never called anyone a traitor. ONCE. And I stand by what I said. Calling most here who support Ukraine almost treasonous is bullcrap, same as them calling you unAmerican. And this is why I've backed out of Ukraine threads. Same shit, round and round, ruining what I like about this place. I still like you bro, no homo. I’ve always tried to get along with you on a personal level. You ve got to give me that. |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 6:47:13 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've always tried to get along with you on a personal level. You ve got to give me that. |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 6:49:33 PM EDT
[#35]
Here’s a great history lesson on how got to the war in Ukraine.
 Jeffrey Sachs: The Untold History of the Cold War, CIA Coups Around the World, and COVID's Origin |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 6:51:26 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure do man, I appreciate that and try to do the same. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I've always tried to get along with you on a personal level. You ve got to give me that. Thank you, sir. |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 7:01:59 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We would fight to reclaim the lands, pay for it ourselves with our own money, and not shamefully point fingers and blame other countries for not giving us enough cash and gear. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You ok giving up part of Texas to a foreign country? How about any American soil? What would we do as a country if we were in their shoes? We would fight to reclaim the lands, pay for it ourselves with our own money, and not shamefully point fingers and blame other countries for not giving us enough cash and gear.  . Are you suggesting that in such a conflict we would suddenly abstain from deficit spending and debt?
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Posted: 6/16/2024 7:04:57 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you, sir. But the difference is why this is argued endlessly, by both sides. We don't differ on much, so when we find something to argue about it's off to the races. That's why you being called unAmerican for your position is BS. |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 7:19:12 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hate how this issue has caused so much rift here amongst a group that agrees on so much else. But the difference is why this is argued endlessly, by both sides. We don't differ on much, so when we find something to argue about it's off to the races. That's why you being called unAmerican for your position is BS. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Thank you, sir. But the difference is why this is argued endlessly, by both sides. We don't differ on much, so when we find something to argue about it's off to the races. That's why you being called unAmerican for your position is BS. Thank you. I can say that you navigate the issue with politeness and common respect. |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 8:11:36 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you. I can say that you navigate the issue with politeness and common respect.
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Posted: 6/16/2024 8:19:02 PM EDT
[#41]
"Not in America's interest"
Devote some thought to the impact of fucking up Russia. Not just on their eastern border, but in places like Syria, Africa, and Central America. Is a stronger Russian republic in "American interest?" Really? How so? |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 8:42:10 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Not in America's interest" Devote some thought to the impact of fucking up Russia. Not just on their eastern border, but in places like Syria, Africa, and Central America. Is a stronger Russian republic in "American interest?" Really? How so? More importantly keeping the West together. Russia has unsuccesfully tried to split the US from its EU partners (and the UK). Our EU+UK partners have decisively voted to be closer to the US who is not trying to blackmail them with gas prices. |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 9:31:26 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Specifics like how the first defense minister of the DPR, FSB agent Igor Girkin, is a Russian FSB agent who has publicly commented on his role in creating the war? For some reason you and Kihn never want to talk about him. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have seen the word cult get thrown around in the past, but it really is like those one-off churches where you cant get into specifics about their doctrine without being called nasty names or a puppet of satan Specifics like how the first defense minister of the DPR, FSB agent Igor Girkin, is a Russian FSB agent who has publicly commented on his role in creating the war? For some reason you and Kihn never want to talk about him. Months before there was even a DPR, representatives from the US state department were making phone calls which would later be leaked, going over their selected roster for the post-coup government in Kiev like they were picking a fantasy football team https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 It really could not be any less surprising that this led to cross border involvement in the Russian speaking regions, which border Russia, and had elected the candidate who just got violently removed |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 9:50:06 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Months before there was even a DPR, representatives from the US state department were making phone calls which would later be leaked, going over their selected roster for the post-coup government in Kiev like they were picking a fantasy football team https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 It really could not be any less surprising that this led to cross border involvement in the Russian speaking regions, which border Russia, and had elected the candidate who just got violently removed Omg proof of globohomos "The clear purpose in leaking this conversation is to embarrass Washington and for audiences susceptible to Moscow's message to portray the US as interfering in Ukraine's domestic affairs.' |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 9:52:15 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryNeeds more salt |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 9:55:06 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I appreciate that Navydoc Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Thank you. I can say that you navigate the issue with politeness and common respect.  Attached FileNick |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 9:55:50 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I never said the US tried to start WWIII, I said we almost started it. And rightly so as Soviet nukes in Cuba was unacceptable due to the short flight times. Full stop. Why is your narrative "The US almost started" and not "The Soviet Union helped overthrow a US Neighbor to get a strong hold in the western hemisphere to spread communism and almost started WW3 when they decided to place Nukes there under the care of an irrational zealot?" Hmmm? |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 10:00:56 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I understand this, Putin is winning his 10 day denazification of Ukraine so well he now wants to stop and negotiate a peace settlement. Why now when an apparent total Russian victory (according to some) and Ukrainian surrender is just around the corner. Could it be all is not well on the home front economically and Putin is looking for an exit ramp without losing face? No, he wants a cease fire that will last long enough to replenish his exhausted front line units and relocate his rear support elements outside HIMARS range now that the US has greenlight Russian border attacks and replenished the HIMARS. |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 10:08:35 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Omg proof of globohomos "The clear purpose in leaking this conversation is to embarrass Washington and for audiences susceptible to Moscow's message to portray the US as interfering in Ukraine's domestic affairs.' "Clearly the intent of leaking audio of the state department doing X, is to bolster Moscow's narrative that the state department does X" Textbook example of being sorry for getting caught |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 10:09:19 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Full stop. Why is your narrative "The US almost started" and not "The Soviet Union helped overthrow a US Neighbor to get a strong hold in the western hemisphere to spread communism and almost started WW3 when they decided to place Nukes there under the care of an irrational zealot?" Hmmm? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I never said the US tried to start WWIII, I said we almost started it. And rightly so as Soviet nukes in Cuba was unacceptable due to the short flight times. Full stop. Why is your narrative "The US almost started" and not "The Soviet Union helped overthrow a US Neighbor to get a strong hold in the western hemisphere to spread communism and almost started WW3 when they decided to place Nukes there under the care of an irrational zealot?" Hmmm? Probably the same reason he keeps ignoring the fact the Western nukes in Turkey were placed overtly, and thus clearly part of a broader strategy of deterrence, whereas Moscow's nukes were placed there covertly and, when caught, they liked about it to the world. Missiles that nobody knows are emplaced can't serve as a strategic deterrent. It takes a special kind of gurgler of Kremlin bullshit to not see the massive difference there and try to draw a moral and strategic equivalence, then blame the U.S. response for causing increased tension. Then there's the whole "let's ignore yet another example of where Moscow lied to the world as we tell everyone that they can be trusted this time, and that this time trusting them will lead to lasting peace." |
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