So, probably unsurprisingly - paint happened.  










Still haven't committed to painting the scope yet though.

Ended up going with a more subdued, but still disruptive mix of tan, green, and brown to tie the grip and stock in to the rifle.  

I'm still not 100% certain whether it's going to stay with Ergo grip and A1 stock - I may go back to the A1 grip, and possibly a collapsible stock eventually - but so far, I'm liking the feel and balance of the fixed stock, so it just made sense to tie it in with the rest of the rifle.  

For the sling - while I don't have a "correct" MK 12 sling, I do have an Eagle TAS-3 (pretty much the same thing, but with HK hooks) - which, while I love Eagle, the sling is a god awful three-point mess.  

Meanwhile, I tried to put myself back around 2003-2004, and imagine what I might have done and what I might have had to do it with, and what I would use to sling a weapon of this weight - and settled on cannibalizing the stock adapter from the TAS-3, and tying it together with an M60 sling that I had lying around, and dusted it with some tan spray paint, giving me a nice, padded, potentially "period correct" sling using parts that end-users would have easily had access to.  

Incidentally, the M60 sling I had because I'd intended to get an ALICE pack strap/slider sewn to it to represent an early "VTAC-style" padded sling, but haven't gotten around to getting done yet, though I probably will try to get it done, along with a KAC Uncle Mike's rail mounted sling mount instead of M60 hook/random aftermarket eyelet that I'm currently using.  

I will say that I'd forgotten how long the 3.5-10 scopes are - to be honest, it does have me slightly regretting not having gone with a MOD 1 rather than a MOD 0 first (this is ARFCOM, the plan, of course, is to eventually get both ).  

The other dangerous thing is that now that the MK 12 has glass - I'm feeling much more unsettled about the fact that it doesn't have a can.  

~Augee

Are you fcukin high?! The Mod 1 stays until I go!

Looks great Aug! Those slings worked wonders when I used to hump the M224 system, no reason it wouldn't work for a Mk12.

Edit: paint the damn leupy man! It's not perm.

Poor neglected scope.

 

So I am on the fence about which scope to get for my Mod 0 build:

Leupold LR/T 3.5–10×40mm M3
Vari-III 3.5-10x40mm M3
3–9×36mm TS-30 A2

Any benefit of one over the other? They all seem similar in capabilities.

If anyone has used any of them, I would appreciate input.

 
First off, it looks great.


The A1 grip forces my wrist to be turned forward too much and it gets pretty uncomfortable when shooting prone for a while. I switched to an original ERGO on my Holland and I will be doing the same on the Mod1. YMMV though.


LOVE the M60 sling. I see no good reason to use an inferior sling regardless if it was issued or not. You know good and well those boys quickly realized it was a piece of shit and likely ditched it for something better, even if it meant cobbling something together. Shit, I might dig one up for mine.


And yeah, you're gonna want a suppressor. After having one for the Mod1, I can't imagine NOT having it; like The Dude said: "It really ties everything together."

 
This is what I've got on my Mod1. It's a great scope. Only bummer is you've got a mil reticle but MOA turrets and there's no way to change that. And if you want a custom 77gr turret from Leupold, you can't get it to say "Mk12 Mod1" because it's not an M2 turret. I just ordered mine with the same load data as the Mk12-labled M2 turret but mine reads "SPR 5.56MM 77GR MK262".


Forget about the lower power settings on your scope as you'll be shooting on 10x 110% of the time, or at least I do.


Forget about illumination; I never used it when I had a Vortex but that's just me.


The glass is clear... until you look through a fk'n NightForce.


Great scope and great warranty and customer service, just don't use a NightForce beforehand unless you can afford one.

 
Agreed - don't look through anything produced by Swarovski, S&B, NF, or high end Leupold stuff - you'll realize very quickly why they cost two and three times as much as your MK4 series Leupy.


I used to own a pair of Swarovski binoculars that were given to me as a gift a long time ago - the glass in those binoculars was ridiculous (and they were 20 years old). Since owning them, anytime I look through any kind of magnified optic, whether it's a rifle scope or another pair of binoculars, none of them compare. As clear as the glass is in my MK4 2.5-8x36, it's not even a contest.


Up until owning those binoculars, I thought people were absolutely out of their minds for spending $2,000+ on glass for their guns, but now I definitely understand why. Not saying cheaper glass doesn't work or won't get the job done, but good glass is definitely worth its weight in gold.


Even optics that are only magnified 4 or 8 times is enough - if the glass is top tier, you can make out every little detail in your field of view - crystal clear, as if you were physically standing right in front of the spot you're viewing.

Agree with the above--glass can certainly make or break a gun

I'm trying to stay true to the Mod0 specs for the build, and given the similarity of pricing on all the scopes and magnifications, I just want to know if one would be better over the other. Most certainly want the knobs for the Mk262 round, but markings are irrelevant to me.

Your cat is not impressed

I know this may be the wrong place to ask, because it is a picture thread, but I am in the slow process of building one right now (Just got the handguard and swan rail from PRI )


But since everyone in here has one, I assume it is the best place to ask such questions.

I want to go legit as possible, I don't sell guns very often, but I figured the closer this is to being a replica the better for this reason.

Now to my questions:

The ARM's scope mounts, I've hear there are some issues, while scope mounts aren't a huge deal, I would like to go with them, unless you can give me a reason not to.

Inside my PRI Gen III rail, there is some kind of dust shield? that can unbolt. What is this for? Is it just to cover up seeing in?

Should I go with an Armalite or Colt upper?  Or is this not really a big deal? I think I may paint or duracoat it.  

Any specific BCG?  Nothing touches on this too much from what I have read. I would assume it is an Armalite or Colt BCG.... But it sounds like PRI is still contracting work for this stuff, I don't know if they are supplying the uppers and BCG's now.  

Any knowledge would be appreciated.

I have been going off the WIKI page for the Mod 0 parts list

Pssh.  She's not impressed by anything that doesn't involve catnip or food.  

Y'all can sling as much hate at me as you want for not painting the scope yet - it's not getting painted until I've decided to keep it, and whether to try to trade it for a 3-9x36 or a 2.5-8x36, I got it Tuesday, guys, I haven't even put a single round downrange with it yet.  

Hopefully I'll change that this weekend, though.  

The sad thing about getting close this close to "done" with this build that I've been working on for so long, is that instead of feeling satisfied that I finally have some glass worthy of the rest of the SPR, like I gambler, now I'm just itching for my next high - all I can think about it how much I need a MOD 1 upper and a can now.  

I do think it was a mistake going MOD 0 before MOD 1, but I'm not about to sell this one, either, though I've considered cannibalizing some parts off of it, though I still don't have a FF RAS Long, so it's really a moot point until then.  

Re: the Ergo grip... the Ergo is comfy enough, but I'm still not sure whether or not I'm going to keep it - to put it in perspective, on all of my other rifles, it never takes me too long to end up deciding to go back to the A2 - and I've had a pretty extensive catalog of grips I've had, tried, and many of them sold.  

~Augee

I've owned both 3.5-10x40 you have listed and also had a 3-9x MR/T.  They are all going to be relatively the same, the 3.5-10x is going to be "more correct" as far as a Mod 0 clone goes.  If you are going to use some kind of clip on thermal or NV the shorter 3-9x may be a better option, otherwise I'd just get whatever you can find the best deal on.  I happen to like the Mk4 MR/T and LR/T scopes a lot, I think they are a good value if bought second hand or for a deep discount from MSRP.

I also have a Mk6 and don't think the glass is that much better, the only thing I have that blows the leupold out of the water for clarity is an Elcan. With a max magnification of 10x I don't think you are going to be hindered by the lower quality glass vs the much more expensive options.

Aug, if you ditch the ERGO, I'll take it. Also, buy the RAS for the Mod1 and then buy your suppressor. While you're waiting for the can, build the Mod1.

You seem to assume that I have far more money than I do.  

Actually, I think besides the fact that if I get a FF RAS Long, I might just cannibalize the MOD 0, and stash the hard to find parts (basically just the ARMS sleeve and set-screw FSB) - and the next "MK 12 related" purchase might be to try to get a clip-on night sight - while I'd love an AN/PVS-something, they're probably way out of my price range for the near future, but an Adams Legionnaire build might be a possibility if I play my cards right/sell some stuff - http://www.nightlongind.com/products/?al_product=73.  

The downside, and issue of concern there is still the length of the 3.5-10...

Then again, it is pretty rude to shoot at night without a can... especially with a brake!  

However, I can also use a CNVD on multiple rifles, including my Block II M4A1.  

~Augee

Just wanted to say the mk12 looks great, I like that sling idea.

I have to disagree. There's a quality that the Mod 0 variants posess that just make them stand out from the Mod 1. I get that the Mod 1 is probably lighter and more flexible in some ways, but as mentioned elsewhere if it weren't for the Ops brake/can, someone would probably just think it was a 12" LaRue stealth upper. Yes, Lone Survivor and American Sniper have brought it to the forefront, but it just doesn't have the same character.

Personally, I'd do what you were thinking and get the 3-9x36 TS-30 if you can find it, or an A2. The 3 or so Gen III rifles I remember seemed to all have the 3-9 on them, with the 3.5-10 appearing on more of the Gen I style rifles. I think this further supports my "timeline" of Mk12 stuff that the Gen III built rifles were much lesser in numbers than the Gen I type and the Mod 1, as it seems they may have been made after KAC started supplying the RAS and Mod 1's started appearing. For a short time the Gen III and Mod 1 were made side-by-side, until as mentioned from the intro post and Wiki, only the Mod 1 was produced to streamline production.

Here's how I think the timeline goes: SPRs/"early" Mod 0 with PRI Gen I HG & wheel FSB produced. Units deploy post-9/11, love them, request more. Crane ramps up to build more. At some point, PRI can't meet demand and issues with "material separation" are mentioned. PRI goes to drawing board to make improvements to handguard, but are not ready to meet existing demand. Crane ultimately contacts KAC whether they have product ready to go to finish Mk12s that are awaiting their handguards & FSBs (what I gathered from Mr. Coldbore). KAC supplies M4 Match RAS in 12" length, maybe this is where we get the SPR/A and SPR/B protos? Mod 1 is born, finished with Crane made gas block (later Badger or DD?) and #22 Highs requested from ARMS rather than #22M and #38 sleeve. Batches of these are produced and sent out to units. Perhaps this is where Mod 0 and Mod 1 are assigned? PRI soon comes back to Crane supplying new FSB (due to patent) and Gen III handguard. Smaller numbers than earlier Mod 0 (and consequently Mod 1) are built with #38 PEQ-2-3. Either from field feedback, supply/demant, production efficiency, or cost, Mod 0 variant with Gen III is soon discontinued and only Mod 1 produced through end of Mk12 program which is 2004? Later a bunch of Mod 1's are handed off to USMC for DRM use, again successfully proving its worth.

You already have an address, set-screw FSB and ARMS #38. If you can score an earlier 3-9 style TS-30 or MR/T and run an A1 grip with A1 stock, you'd have the closest Gen III clone I can think of within our merry little group.

 
You're talk'n NV! I'd buy a can long before I built another Mk12 upper or NV. These rifles just ain't complerte without the suppressor.

I would agree with you WRT the overall "MK 12yness" of the MOD 0 over the MOD 1 - and did four years ago when I started my MK 12 project and decided to go MOD 0 first.  

However, in the meantime - green eye disease has set in, which I didn't have quite as bad when I started the project, which has directly led to me wanting a MOD 1 upper over the MOD 0.  Actually, I would not be surprised if the increased convenience of mounting a CNVD to the MOD 1 versus the MOD 0 is, in large part responsible for the persistence of the MOD 1 over the MOD 0.

Ultimately, of course, this is ARFCOM, after all, the goal is to get both.  

Unfortunately, while I do have a set-screw PRI FSB/GB, it's not a "full address" version, though the older and longer Ops collar does conceal the fact a little bit better.

~Augee

Yeah, shit's expensive, doesn't leave much cash for anything else.



The combination of my own circadian rhythms and day jobs have conspired to make green-eye disease hit me incredibly hard and escalate virulently once contracted, and it's really the most practical time for me to go shooting anyways.  

~Augee

I thought you got a full-address FSB from KOBK at one point? I could have sworn it was you, because someone was showing the differences between them, either you or KOBK. Time flies I guess in the 700+ pages since then

As far as NV goes, remember one of the main high-quality Gen III Mod 0 pics shows a 3-9 with a PVS-22 mounted in front of it, on a PEQ-2-3 rail. Surely your NV would be able to fit, right?

Nice lookin' cat

I had an early wheel adjust front sight that I got from KOBK that I ended up trading back to him for an extremely generous trade of goodies that was a huge part of making my MK 12 project possible.  Never had a full-address sight, though.  

And while I joke about cash - FWIW, most of the "new" stuff that I get ends up being stuff traded for things that I bought during my trips to exotic locales while still single.  Regret none of it, mind you, but it is a little different, though, when anything new that comes in means that something else has to go out - though it hasn't stopped me from burning through a full custom 1911, an M16A4 clone, two ACOGs, an SU-230, and a CQBR upper "tightening up" my collection and in part feeding my [relatively] new-found [privately owned] NV fetish - less variety and redundancy, more capability - I think it's been a worthwhile trade-off, and there is a slow trickle of "new value" that get's added, but nothing like my younger and wilder days, jet setting back and forth to SWA , and frankly, it's held value, appreciated, and paid dividends far better than a lot of investments I could have made at that time with that money, with a lot more personal satisfaction.  

With the 3-9, the MOD 0 can be made to work with a CNVD, and if I get to that point first, you'd better bet I will, too - but it's definitely easier with the MOD 1, especially when you factor in eye-relief preference differences and general user configuration preferences for organizational issue - the way that MOD 0 is set up, it's literally pretty much the only way you can configure the scope/CNVD combination on that upper, versus another, at least three-four inches of wiggle room the MOD 1's top rail would give you by eliminating the PEQ mount that's almost never used anyways.  

~Augee

Happy Friday dudes:

Nice. Very nice.

That is pure sex. New AEM5?

 
Indeed - sporting the new AEM5.

Outside of not having an Ergo grip and KAC broom handle, that is the exact rifle I'm building.

Beautiful stick you got there.

Sweet setup!!  Funny, I have a 249 sling on mine.  

 
Thanks.


I just threw the Tango Down grip on there for shits and gigs - I did have the KAC grip on there previously. Being that it's more clone correct, I'll probably throw it back on at some point.


After I take her out a few times I'll see if I still dig the A1 or not (I do have an un-used Ergo laying around that I can swap it out with if need be).

New MK12 video from the LAV:

Machine gun slings are great for supporting the weight of a heavier rifle like the MK 12 since they're designed to support a weapon that weighs about twice as much, and "clone correct," or at least "clone plausible" to boot, and much better than the issued sling.  Plus they're fairly cheap compared to most aftermarket slings that didn't exist in the "heyday" of the MK 12.  

The clone game is a "whole package" deal.  

All I was really looking for for the MK 12 was a carry strap, and I can still "sling up" in a hasty sling, unlike most of my other rifles, but the MK 12 seems like it would be best suited for such a technique compared to most of my other rifles.  

~Augee

 
That's pretty awesome - thanks for sharing.

It's all about the M1907 sling

 
Cool, where's the second video?

Looks like he hasn't uploaded it yet. The one I posted has only been on there for 4 hours.

He uploads new videos damn near every day so I wouldn't be surprised if it's up tomorrow.

 
Right on, I'll be waiting to see it. Thanks for posting it up.

Here's my build so far. Colt M4A1 lower, LMT SOPMOD stock, High Caliber Mod0 build. I now need some rings and scope. Any suggestions? I want to stay as military issue correct as I can while keeping with the best scope. I'm leaning toward the NightForce 2.5-10x30 (I think that was the issued one?) any reasons why I shouldn't use that one?




Wife checking it out

 
Leupold TS30-A2, Vari-X III 3-9x, or a Mk4 3.5-10x40mm; the first two are more clone-proper.

Clean! Very well done!

Thanks!

RTUtah - thanks I'll check those out. After what little research I've done on MK12 optics so far if seems a lot of people like the NightForce 2.5-10x30. How do you think your suggestions compare to that if I do decide I'd rather go quality/use-ability over as issue correct?

There is a NF 2.5-10x24 and 2.5-10x32, both have their advantages and disadvantages, tons of reviews out there.  I've owned several of the Leupolds and have shot a few of the NF.  The NF is a better scope but I've been plenty happy with the Mark 4, if you are willing to buy used and look for a good deal a non illuminated Mark 4 can be had for half of what you will pay for a 2.5-10x24 and several hundred less than a 2.5-10x32.

If at all possible you should at least look through each.

Good advise. Thanks I'll take my time and check them all out

Hello all, I just want to double check and confirm that the KAC ambi-safety is the correct safety for the Mod 0.

Thanks in advance.

Junkyard

LOVE WYOMING

Also, as far as I'm aware, NF scopes were not used on Mod 0's.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.