User Panel
Posted: 2/15/2010 11:50:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: EMA-Tactical]
THE RONI
Convert your pistol to an accurate assault rifle in less than 10 seconds • Increased accuracy past 50 yards. • No need to carry both rifle and pistol ammunition. • Hinged polymer and aluminum carbine frame. • Assembly is secured with two locking pins. • Collapsible stock, adjustable cheekpiece. • Barrel extension can be removed from the stock and replaced with a silencer. • A fourth Picatinny rail under the barrel extension. • Attractive polymer case. • Spare magazine holder attaches to the collapsible stock. • Included two position folding forward grip. • Optional brass catcher is available. • Optional vehicle mount available. • Available for Glock 17,18,19,22,23,25,31,32,34,35. • Coming soon models for Sig Sauer, Springfield XD, H&K, USP & Jericho. Please check out our video. Go to the following link, click on the video tab and press play: http://ema.plutog.co.il/viewProduct.asp?ID=267&catID=376 Click here to check us out at Shot Show 2010 Range day http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZKTAoV0nJ4&feature=PlayList&p=4A0C4A4295B9A37B&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=15 For More information, please visit our website at www.ematactical.com or email us at [email protected]. All NFA Rules Apply. No pistol disassembly required |
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[#1]
XDm ? |
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I'm not always right , but I'm not really wrong either!!!
How do you like me now??? "May God have mercy on my enemy , because I won't" G.S.Patton |
[#2]
wouldn't that be considered an SBR?
adding a stock to a pistol. |
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The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in
defense. The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental. |
[#3]
Some Questions.
Form 1 required for the pistol or the upper? Can the pistol be carried separately after the Form 1 is approved? |
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צבאות
"Cower in life's shadows if you choose to." Training and Trigger Time are more important than chasing after the 'Holy Grail' of hardware. كافž |
[#4]
Great! A rifle with no safety and before somebody says something the Glock's safety is the holster.
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Glocktalk, where Airsofters and Farm Animals peacefully co-habitate.
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[#5]
There website says you need to fill out a Form 1
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BCM the cure for the common Colt
Proud Member of "Ranstad's Militia"...The Fantastic Bastards" JMB Disciple |
[#6]
Wondering why this is under "handgun" products... if you buy it you have a rifle.
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This is...a clue. - Pat_Rogers
CO, FL, MI, SC, NH, NV - Please lobby your legislators to end discrimination against non-resident CCW permit holders |
[#7]
Originally Posted By EMA-Tactical:
THE RONI Convert your pistol to an accurate assault rifle in less than 10 seconds ...so, it's full auto?...? |
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[#8]
This product converts a pistol into a short barreled rifle (SBR). SBR are regulated under the laws of the National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA). It is illegal to possess this product unless it is registered with Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives BATF&E (Form 1) or you are a Class 3 Dealer. It is illegal to transfer this product to anyone before they have registered this product with BATF&E.
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Not making any friends here.
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[#9]
Originally Posted By Callahan:
There website says you need to fill out a Form 1 Originally One EMA's site:
It is illegal to possess this product unless it is registered with Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives BATF&E (Form 1) so is the upper the registered part or the pistol? |
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צבאות
"Cower in life's shadows if you choose to." Training and Trigger Time are more important than chasing after the 'Holy Grail' of hardware. كافž |
[#10]
Originally Posted By wganz:
Originally Posted By Callahan:
There website says you need to fill out a Form 1 Originally One EMA's site:
It is illegal to possess this product unless it is registered with Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives BATF&E (Form 1) so is the upper the registered part or the pistol? Yeah, not understanding that. It's not a firearm...right? |
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Not making any friends here.
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[#11]
Anyone else notice in the video (at about 1:08) the silencer/suppresor flopping around with each shot?
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[#12]
the suppressor is attatched to the barrel of the glock, not the part being sold here. I dont own a glock, but I believe this is actually a result of the barrel unlocking and tilting up slightly when the slide racks
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FU ARMS Inc, and FU Dick Swan!!!
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[#13]
Originally Posted By aperdue:
the suppressor is attatched to the barrel of the glock, not the part being sold here. I dont own a glock, but I believe this is actually a result of the barrel unlocking and tilting up slightly when the slide racks That would be my assessment also |
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Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, only a highly functioning zombie. Take all opinions and advice as you see fit.
NRA Handgun Instructor / RSO MO CCW Instructor |
[#14]
Originally Posted By aperdue:
the suppressor is attatched to the barrel of the glock, not the part being sold here. I dont own a glock, but I believe this is actually a result of the barrel unlocking and tilting up slightly when the slide racks This. I don't have this conversion, but I do have a Glock. The rear portion of the barrel drops down (thus causing the barrel to be angled upward) when it unlocks from the slide during the slide's rearward travel. Thus, a suppressor attached to the barrel will tilt up as the action cycles following each shot. I think just about every modern semi-auto pistol uses a tilting barrel feature similar to this. |
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[#15]
Can you not describe it as an assault rifle? The term is both inaccurate and a word we don't want associated with semi-automatic handguns, carbines, and rifles.
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"You must be the change you want to see in the world." -Mahatma Gandhi
-I may like that quote, but I'm no peacenick "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" -Edmund Burke |
[#16]
AR15.com Member Aperdue writes: "the suppressor is attatched to the barrel of the glock, not the part being sold here. I dont own a glock, but I believe this is actually a result of the barrel unlocking and tilting up slightly when the slide racks"
In this case, the suppressor is not actually mounted to the Roni. It is mounted to the glock and is a separate part of the Roni. As AR15.com member "aperdue" points out, when the barrel unlocks and the slide moves back to rack another round, there is a slight tilt. This action occurs with any silencer attached to a pistol, it is just more noticeable in this instance since the suppressor is contained by the Roni which is stabilized. This is NOT a malfunction of the product. Repeatable zero is maintained while removing and reinserting the firearm. If you have any other questions about this product, please feel free to give us a call at 215-949-9944. Thank you for your interest in EMA products. |
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[#17]
Hello All,
I personally played with this conversion at the 2010 Shot Show in the EMA booth. Here are my 2 pennies. First 80% of the reps there did not speak english very well. The first thing I asked was if there would be a Form 1 Involved. They looked at me like I was from another planet. Almost like..."Wait, there are laws in America?" We thought you cowboys all shot on site and went to the sheriff if the natives got restless. Anywho, beside the fact that they had no answer for me about the Form1 I touched and played with the kit. It's all "polymer" and felt...Cheap. I'm leaving this conversion to the airsoft guys. |
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[Last Edit: EMA-Tactical]
[#18]
We’re an Israeli company and the RONI is an Israeli product, during the Shot Show key personal from our parent company join us and I’m sorry you had a problem communicating with our counterparts. I’m sure if you would have asked they would have let you speak to one of us from EMA, their American counterpart. Yes, the product is polymer just like almost every other gun accessory on the market. The RONI is reinforced with metal where it needs to be and it comes with a life time warranty. I fired the RONI during media day and it shoots as good as it looks, it felt very solid and balanced. The device easily doubled the accuracy of the GLOCK 17 inside it. Please see attachment on where we stand with the classification of the RONI as of February 22, 2010.
Sincerely, Michael Grandy EMA Tactical 1208 Branagan Dr Tullytown Pa. 19007 P: 215 949-9944 x105 F: 215 949 9191 Fax [email protected] www.ematactical.com |
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[#19]
Not seeing any attachments...?
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Not making any friends here.
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[#20]
Michael,
Thank you for bringing another product to our market. I would like to see if you could clarify a few points about 'THE RONI'(called the stock from this point onward). It is my understanding that this product in combination with the appropriate pistol is considered an SBR per the National Firearms Act of 1938. Is the NFA serial numbered part the pistol or the stock? Do you have any information from your legal staff(or hired attorneys) on the legal status and/or any special restrictions regarding having an NFA registered combination of the stock and pistol? Does the pistol and stock have to be stored assembled? * Once the NFA tax stamp has been received, does the owner have to take the stock with him? Scenario is that the owner wants to go to an IPSC match with his GLOCK 17L that has the NFA tax stamp to be used with the stock. Must he take the stock with him to the match? * Thanks for the time in answering my questions. (* read this on another forum) |
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צבאות
"Cower in life's shadows if you choose to." Training and Trigger Time are more important than chasing after the 'Holy Grail' of hardware. كا& |
[#21]
Thank you for your interest. In reply to your questions:
1. At this time the stock does not have a serial # or a plate to stamp a serial # on. However, this is not a final determination. 2. We are waiting to get a classification from ATF for the RONI. 3. After classification by ATF and with consultation with council and ATF we will determine if it is prudent to serialize the stock. 4. Regarding special restrictions: Until we receive classification from ATF, we are unable to determine. 5. Regarding storing the product assembled: Again, until we receive classification from ATF, we are unable to determine. I hope this answers your questions for now. As we determine the facts, we will post them on our web site. Thank you for you interest in our products and your patience as we await final answers. If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact us at www.ematactical.com |
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[#22]
Originally Posted By EMA-Tactical:
Thank you for your interest. In reply to your questions: 1. At this time the stock does not have a serial # or a plate to stamp a serial # on. However, this is not a final determination. 2. We are waiting to get a classification from ATF for the RONI. 3. After classification by ATF and with consultation with council and ATF we will determine if it is prudent to serialize the stock. 4. Regarding special restrictions: Until we receive classification from ATF, we are unable to determine. 5. Regarding storing the product assembled: Again, until we receive classification from ATF, we are unable to determine. I hope this answers your questions for now. As we determine the facts, we will post them on our web site. Thank you for you interest in our products and your patience as we await final answers. If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact us at www.ematactical.com Note: I am not the ATF, nor do I play one on tv. The following is just my opinion. Considering that this product does not and cannot fire rounds by itself, it is not a firearm and cannot be considered a firearm. It's just an accessory –– similar products have existed / do exist. This product is similar to other products that add stocks to weapons –– e.g.: However, by adding this accessory to your pistol, you DO, in fact, convert your pistol into a short barreled rifle. As such, you will need to register your pistol with and receive the appropriate NFA tax stamp from the ATF. This means that if you remove your pistol from this product, to carry it concealed, for instance, you must still carry a copy of the NFA tax stamp with you at all times. Not really that big of an issue, I just get mine shrunk down (to about the size of a baseball card) and laminated and can keep them in my wallet/bag/truck/etc. Now, while I've never put my hands on one (but hope to, at some point), it looks much nicer than most of the other similar products out there and I do like the idea of a separate charging handle and rails for optics/sights. Considering all of the above, I would personally prefer to purchase/use a handgun dedicated for this accessory and carry my current pistol for concealed carry. This way there's no confusion. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Notes for EMA: The term "assault rifle" has a specific meaning –– fully automatic fire. I suggest, if I may, that you use a different term like sub-gun or something equivalent. And specifically call out that this product does not enable/provide full automatic fire capabilities –– remove all question from potential buyers and law enforcement agencies. I really hope you guys do a model for the springfield XD and design it such that it will accept EITHER the service (4" barrel) or the tactical (5" barrel) models. From the sample images for the "coming soon" xd-kit, it looks like only 4" models will fit. Rather disappointing as I prefer the 5" models, myself. Good luck w/ your new product. Snootch. |
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[#23]
I'd rather have the HERA.
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You've never lived until you have almost died.
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[#24]
Originally Posted By osprey21:
I'd rather have the HERA. |
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[Last Edit: wganz]
[#25]
Originally Posted By Snootchie_Bootchies:
However, by adding this accessory to your pistol, you DO, in fact, convert your pistol into a short barreled rifle. As such, you will need to register your pistol with and receive the appropriate NFA tax stamp from the ATF. We're in full agreement here. This means that if you remove your pistol from this product, to carry it concealed, for instance, you must still carry a copy of the NFA tax stamp with you at all times. Not really that big of an issue, I just get mine shrunk down (to about the size of a baseball card) and laminated and can keep them in my wallet/bag/truck/etc. I'm not sure if that is a legal requirement but is such common sense that one should act like it is. Considering all of the above, I would personally prefer to purchase/use a handgun dedicated for this accessory and carry my current pistol for concealed carry. This way there's no confusion. My concern is for those people that don't have a duplication here. On another forum, a poster said that he got a letter when he inquired about another competing product that he had to have that stock with him at all times when it was out of his house and would have to be stored attached. He did not post a pdf with his personal info redacted so I cannot vouch for this. Even if he did, the letter would only apply to the addressee. That is why I was wanting to have the company's counsel get a determination from the ATF on what weird restrictions that they would have on it. I respectfully request that mentioning or linkage to other products be kept out of this thread unless for specific clarification like Snootchie did for the same reason we don't step on threads in the EE. |
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צבאות
Cower in life's shadows if you choose to ... guys who have a rope. No sense or facts but they got a rope. Training&Trigger Time are more important than chasing after a hardware 'Holy Grail' |
[#26]
I may be mistaken, but... In Florida, you cannot conceal carry NFA items. Which would mean, if your (let's say) Glock 17 Serial # ABC123 is registered as a short bbl rifle; you cannot carry your Glock 17 S# ABC123 because it's considered a short bbl rifle, regardless of if you have your tax stamp with you or whether it has the stock attached. Same goes for suppressed guns, or suppressors, and things like a Serbu Super Shorty. Just some food for thought. May not even be relevant to this.
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[#27]
I don't see how it could possibly enhance accuracy other than the stability offered by the stock and vertical grip as it doesn't seem to have a barrel like the Mech-tec carbine. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but that dodad that looks like a FH on the front looks more like a poly choke from my old model 12 winny.
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[#28]
400 bucks-REALLY? I'd rather get another AK.
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[#29]
this makes my wiener hurt
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"Thou art my battle-axe and weapons of war: and with thee will I break in pieces the nations; and with thee will I destroy kingdoms;" Jeremiah 51:20
"Proud Member of Ranstad's Militia... The Fantastic Bastards" |
[#30]
Tapco is gonna be all over there, does it come in pink?
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[#31]
I would really like to know what the ATF has classified this product? Is it considered a short carbine or what?
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[#32]
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[#33]
Originally Posted By SignManIam: http://media.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=16404 What's up with the optic??? Look's like a EoTech with laser...mounted backward....LOL It looks like a backwards MARS. |
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"Violent video games are the assault rifle of the First Amendment"
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[#34]
Put a Beretta in it and call it macaroni.
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[#35]
It's cool looking, but doesn't it just make your glock bulkier?
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"I just like the idea of whackin' Zees with a 12 gauge... nothin' says 'dead again' like a shotgun."
-ArmedSuspect G17 since 4/26/10 |
[#36]
Originally Posted By LOMartin: Originally Posted By osprey21: I'd rather have the HERA. Just checked it out on youtube. The guy shooting got a stovepipe in the first 30 shots. Seems like the housing around the slide would catch ejected rounds and make this an annoying problem. |
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Take me out into the black, Tell 'em I ain't coming back.
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[#37]
Originally Posted By JonnyVain:
Put a Beretta in it and call it macaroni. now I have to dry my keyboard |
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[Last Edit: MakoDefense]
[#38]
Originally Posted By SignManIam: http://media.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=16404 What's up with the optic??? Look's like a EoTech with laser...mounted backward....LOL The optic is the Mepro MOR reflex sight. It was designed for and is used by the Israeli Special Forces, while the M21 sight (see a photo here - bottom photos, not the SIG optic) is standard issue to most of the IDF. The MOR is powered by ambient light through fiber optic, by tritium for low or no-light situations, and by battery power for extra brightness when needed. It contains an IR laser designator and a visible laser designator. It is now available in the US from The Mako Group. Pricing and info is on our website. |
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Israeli Special Forces Training www.MakoDefense.com • Combat-Proven Weapons Accessories and Holsters www.themakogroup.com
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[#39]
any legal updates? interested
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[#40]
Very true. Can't wait to get this piece of equipment for my glock. Looks nice although I highly doubt it can ever match the machinery of a real rifle but never the less something to think about if you are in need of a rifle and can't fight your way back to one with just a pistol.
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[#41]
Hey all, I'm new here to the site, but I was wondering if anyone here has any experience with this Roni "upper" for the Glock?
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[#42]
However, by adding this accessory to your pistol, you DO, in fact, convert your pistol into a short barreled rifle. As such, you will need to register your pistol with and receive the appropriate NFA tax stamp from the ATF. This means that if you remove your pistol from this product, to carry it concealed, for instance, you must still carry a copy of the NFA tax stamp with you at all times
you are not required to carry the stamp. |
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[#43]
Cool idea. However, there is very limited space to engrave your glock properly and have your name/address visible at all times.
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[#44]
Why not just make a 16" barrel for it, then no worries about the SBR part. |
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Life was much easier when APPLE and BLACKBERRY were just a type of fruit.
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[#45]
There are 16" barrels, but they tap gas to assist the Glock in unlocking (otherwise it won't function). The patent is locked up by a company in Switzerland, and the barrels are $250 MSRP in the US. Not sure if they are currently imported. So price is about the same either way.
Oh, and as far as marking the Glock, it can be done on the grip part of the frame or the bottom of the trigger guard and will be visible: Engraving on bottom side of grip frame
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Israeli Special Forces Training www.MakoDefense.com • Combat-Proven Weapons Accessories and Holsters www.themakogroup.com
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[#46]
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
wouldn't that be considered an SBR? adding a stock to a pistol. Yeah, I was thinking that too.....might be why they put "all NFA rules apply" in there in small print. Either way, good enough idea and all, but it doesn't really fill a role for me. |
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