User Panel
[Last Edit: Generalbarca]
[#1]
Is there anyone that loaded it hot?
I'm looking to get 3200 fps from an 18 inch barrel or maybe a little more and suppressed(rifle length gas system of course) DI and maybe short stroke piston. I saw someone get 3250 from a 2 barrel so 3200 from a suppressed 18 inch isn't out of the realm of possibility. Basically Whatever load they're using is the one I'm looking for. |
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[#2]
Accurate powders has load data for 5.56/M855 on there WebSite.
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[Last Edit: RCC1]
[#3]
Originally Posted By Generalbarca:
Is there anyone that loaded it hot? I'm looking to get 3200 fps from an 18 inch barrel or maybe a little more and suppressed(rifle length gas system of course) DI and maybe short stroke piston. I saw someone get 3250 from a 2 barrel so 3200 from a suppressed 18 inch isn't out of the realm of possibility. Basically Whatever load they're using is the one I'm looking for. View Quote Basically the right balance of speed and accuracy happens with H335 powder. Anything over 26.5 grains results in over pressure. |
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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[#4]
Back to page 1.
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Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
[#5]
This is sort of theoretical, but is there a commercial bullet of similar outside construction to the M855A1 bullet? Basically a bullet with a similar bearing length and similar overall weight is what I'm thinking of.
I'm thinking that if one could buy a bullet that's similar enough to the new projectile, it might make it easier to develop loads for the M855A1 bullet. Or am I just overthinking things? |
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"--you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."
Heinlein NRA Life Member Glock Certified Armorer Certified AR15 Armorer Certified M1911 Armorer |
[#6]
Originally Posted By GHPorter:
This is sort of theoretical, but is there a commercial bullet of similar outside construction to the M855A1 bullet? Basically a bullet with a similar bearing length and similar overall weight is what I'm thinking of. I'm thinking that if one could buy a bullet that's similar enough to the new projectile, it might make it easier to develop loads for the M855A1 bullet. Or am I just overthinking things? View Quote |
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[#7]
Originally Posted By GHPorter:
This is sort of theoretical, but is there a commercial bullet of similar outside construction to the M855A1 bullet? Basically a bullet with a similar bearing length and similar overall weight is what I'm thinking of. I'm thinking that if one could buy a bullet that's similar enough to the new projectile, it might make it easier to develop loads for the M855A1 bullet. Or am I just overthinking things? View Quote For the record, I am just brain farting here. Blue Falcons reduced velocity gel test sort of freed my mind from having to chase absolute max velocity. |
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[#8]
I was really more thinking about how sometimes to get the best accuracy you need to tweak a load by a tiny bit for powder, then a tiny bit for seating depth, then maybe rinse/repeat... That could take a lot of bullets, and a "stand-in" for the real deal could reduce the cost of that part of load development.
Yes, DoD lost a patent infringement suit. Liberty Ammunition won in 2015, BUT the appeal overturned the decision. It looks like the infringement claim was based on a fairly vague interpretation of Liberty's claims from their patent. Whatever the general consensus at ARFCOM is about The Firearm Blog, they posted some solid information about the appeal in August of last year. I sort of think that there's a chance that Liberty's patent was of a group I call "why would you issue a patent for this?" The US Patent Office has issued patents for a number of "inventions" that were nothing more than derivatives of prior art. There have been bullets with multiple part cores in the past, and perhaps the Liberty patent wasn't as solid a thing as we all expect patents to be. |
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"--you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."
Heinlein NRA Life Member Glock Certified Armorer Certified AR15 Armorer Certified M1911 Armorer |
[Last Edit: TheGunslinger]
[#9]
Anybody have new results or data? I remembered I have a small amount of these.
H335 is the powder to use? Max load of 26.5gr? |
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Our motto: Apocalypse Now
NORCAL Nickname: Gadsen |
[#10]
Consider AA-2520 if your goal is high velocity. BL-C(2) might be another go fast option.
I dislike military issue bullets so much I gave up on them over 30 years ago. They are purpose built for penetration and rarely group well for me or anyone else. If I can't shoot 1 moa I'm disappointed. |
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[#11]
Id like to get this load experiment going again. The 335 seems ok but there have got to be better ones. I tried VVN530 and had pressure problems at 2900 from a 16". VVN540 is next.
Id like to see some of the AA's Vectans or Czech stuff tried out. |
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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[#12]
Originally Posted By gentlemanfarmer:
Id like to get this load experiment going again. The 335 seems ok but there have got to be better ones. I tried VVN530 and had pressure problems at 2900 from a 16". VVN540 is next. Id like to see some of the AA's Vectans or Czech stuff tried out. View Quote So set your bookmark. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
[Last Edit: dennyd]
[#14]
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Retired Bouncer
Now it's my turn! |
[#15]
Originally Posted By gentlemanfarmer:
Id like to get this load experiment going again. The 335 seems ok but there have got to be better ones. I tried VVN530 and had pressure problems at 2900 from a 16". VVN540 is next. Id like to see some of the AA's Vectans or Czech stuff tried out. View Quote |
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[Last Edit: dryflash3]
[#16]
where can i <snip> ? thanks
Use the tacked "where to find" thread at the top of the page so I don't have to lock this thread. dryflash3 |
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[Last Edit: COSteve]
[#17]
Originally Posted By CTRob65:
The best grouping I had out of my PSA/FN CHF barrel was 2moa. I'm hoping someone else wll chime in on group sizes. View Quote Why? The steel penetrator is a different density than the lead around it and therefore, if it is not perfectly centered in the round and perfectly balanced dynamically, the bullet will wobble. When it wobbles, the groups open up. The Military doesn't care if it does as they don't care about group size, just velocity and penetration. That's what the penetrator rd was made to do, penetrate. So trying to load an accurate M855 cartridge is like setting up a dump truck to go one a road course. I shoot a lot of 62grn bullets thousands, however, none of them are M855. Rather, I shoot Hornady's 62grn fmj bulk bullets for plinking. They are decently accurate for bulk and I find that they are more accurate than their 55grn in both my 1:9 AR mid-length carbine and my 18" Mini-14. If I want good accuracy in an under 300 yd platform, Midsouth Shooters Supply has some limited run 62grn Hornady HPBT target bullets that are surprisingly accurate. I called Hornady and they confirmed that Midsouth is the only place that they are available currently but that they are considering offering them as a regular product. I understand I use Hornady's 68grn HPBT for longer range (400 yd) shooting at apples with my scoped A4 but their 62grn HPBT are new and I've recently loaded some up and they're giving me pretty good accuracy in my Mini-14. Very close to 1 MOA in fact. I haven't gotten a chance to try them in my ARs as of yet. ETA: Dryflash, I only mentioned Midsouth because it's currently the only place you can get these bullets as even Hornady doesn't sell them yet. If you want to remove the reference to it, no problem. |
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[#18]
@COSteve, M855A1 construction is quite a bit different from M855 construction. I expect the average M855A1 bullet to be more capable of accuracy than the average M855.
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[#19]
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"If you can't get a hit at 300m, you gotta cover that ground. If you gotta cover that ground, it's gonna be a bad day for you." - CSM Merritt 10th MTN DIV CSM
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[#20]
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
@COSteve, M855A1 construction is quite a bit different from M855 construction. I expect the average M855A1 bullet to be more capable of accuracy than the average M855. View Quote |
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[#21]
Originally Posted By COSteve:
Learn something every day. However, I still stand by my statement that a Hornady bulk 62grn and better yet a Hornday 62grn HPBT will shoot circles around the M855A1 as well. My Mini-14 (you know, those Ruger 'A Team' carbines that pattern like a shotgun) with the newer 583 series barrel, etc. produces near 1 MOA with the 62grn HPBT. I'm talking sub 1.25" at 100yds from a Mini. I use the 62grn Hornady fmj to plink bowling pins at 200yds with iron sights on my Mini and it's as accurate with them as is my iron sighted RRA mid-length gas carbine. However, I've yet to try the 62grn HPBTs in my 20" scoped AR A4 or Savage bolt gun but Hornady's 68grn HPBTs and TAC produce 5/8" groups at 100yds in both of them. View Quote |
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I just gotta ask........
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[#22]
Originally Posted By COSteve:
Learn something every day. However, I still stand by my statement that a Hornady bulk 62grn and better yet a Hornday 62grn HPBT will shoot circles around the M855A1 as well. My Mini-14 (you know, those Ruger 'A Team' carbines that pattern like a shotgun) with the newer 583 series barrel, etc. produces near 1 MOA with the 62grn HPBT. I'm talking sub 1.25" at 100yds from a Mini. I use the 62grn Hornady fmj to plink bowling pins at 200yds with iron sights on my Mini and it's as accurate with them as is my iron sighted RRA mid-length gas carbine. However, I've yet to try the 62grn HPBTs in my 20" scoped AR A4 or Savage bolt gun but Hornady's 68grn HPBTs and TAC produce 5/8" groups at 100yds in both of them. View Quote |
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"If you can't get a hit at 300m, you gotta cover that ground. If you gotta cover that ground, it's gonna be a bad day for you." - CSM Merritt 10th MTN DIV CSM
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[Last Edit: gentlemanfarmer]
[#23]
Originally Posted By deezbill: Ever get around to trying out the VV N540? View Quote Accuracy was good for what it wass worth, but 2950 was compressed. Don't have access to the charge weight for that handy. vv530 reached pressure signs really early. My next move will be to pull some of the Nammo steel core ammo "Carl Gustav" and load these in place. Those 62gr were all steel and very long, should work. |
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[#24]
Originally Posted By RCC1: My understanding is that factory loaded M855A1 uses SMP-842 powder, the closest thing readily available to my knowledge is H335. I got the velocity right using CFE223, but the accuracy wasn't there IMHO, from looking at the pictures of my targets it was about 2 MOA which is in spec. I prefer better accuracy than that which I achieved with XBR 8208 but gave up around 100 FPS. When my powder shows up I will do a ladder test with H335 and try a hotter load with XBR 8208. View Quote I always heard H335 was equivalent to WC844 and came out of the Olin plant, but I might be wrong. |
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[#25]
Originally Posted By nihilsum:
CFE223 and Alliant 2000mr both come out of the same plant (St Marks) as SMP-842 and should be the closest commercial blended equivalents. They also share the copper fouling mitigation properties with SMP 842. I always heard H335 was equivalent to WC844 and came out of the Olin plant, but I might be wrong. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By nihilsum:
Originally Posted By RCC1: My understanding is that factory loaded M855A1 uses SMP-842 powder, the closest thing readily available to my knowledge is H335. I got the velocity right using CFE223, but the accuracy wasn't there IMHO, from looking at the pictures of my targets it was about 2 MOA which is in spec. I prefer better accuracy than that which I achieved with XBR 8208 but gave up around 100 FPS. When my powder shows up I will do a ladder test with H335 and try a hotter load with XBR 8208. I always heard H335 was equivalent to WC844 and came out of the Olin plant, but I might be wrong. I load a lot with CFE 223 and it tends to work very well on heavier projectiles. |
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[#26]
The M855A1 was a big flop, accuracy was not the best with this bullet. After adoption of this round it was extensively tested and did not meet the manufactures as during testing. I wonder who lined their pockets with this DOD contract.
The MK 318 was a much better round but the cost per round was more than the M855A1. I think maybe M855A1 using MK 318 powder and load would work? The bullets are a improvement over M855 Ball |
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[#27]
Originally Posted By Alaska3006:
The M855A1 was a big flop, accuracy was not the best with this bullet. After adoption of this round it was extensively tested and did not meet the manufactures as during testing. I wonder who lined their pockets with this DOD contract. The MK 318 was a much better round but the cost per round was more than the M855A1. I think maybe M855A1 using MK 318 powder and load would work? The bullets are a improvement over M855 Ball View Quote Are you serious? |
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...let me clue you in. I am not in danger, Skyler. I AM the danger. A guy opens his door and gets shot and you think that of me? No. I am the one who knocks!
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[#28]
Bump up for this one. If ranges ever open back up, I will work these up in the heat so there are no surprises in the summertime.
Anyone tried Benchmark or X-Terminator? |
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Not all who are lost wonder
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[Last Edit: PointBlank82]
[#29]
Man I completely forgot about this thread, got busy moving for a new job back in early 2017.
Never loaded any of my M855A1 (I have 300 of the factory loaded now, will probably sell off the pulls) but managed to pick up a couple hundred M80A1 pulls over the past three years. Is there another thread with any load workups for the M80A1? |
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[#30]
Reviving a very old thread here. To those that loaded it up. What size bushing were you using on your dies?
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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[#31]
Originally Posted By Lucreau: Reviving a very old thread here. To those that loaded it up. What size bushing were you using on your dies? View Quote Half way down page 9 in this forum is where the "toggled" threads start and they go all the way to page 12. Only mods can see the icon that means that the thread was "toggled". |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
[#32]
Smp842 has been cheap on gunbroker. I bought eight pounds and it’s been great ona lot of 62 to 77gr rounds. I cloned 2016 m855a1 using 25.5 grains. Got 3050 FPS from a16” lmt and 21 FPS spread. Really I would go this route if you have any sig quantity of m855a1 bullets.
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[Last Edit: country_boy87]
[#33]
Im late to the party here
H335. LC brass. 14.5 pinned colt socom bipod only, ACOG. 54 degrees at 45% humidity 25.0 grains 26.0 grains 1.2875 1.2933 2.2884 2.3033 3.2890 3.3134 4.2914 4.3134 No pressure signs @ 26.0 except for very slight ejector swipes, My buddy said Im probably good at that 26.0. The avg. is 3058 fps. Grouped @ 2 1/2" inch 50 yards. Thats moving pretty fast I think. I may try 26.2 and see what happens, lost my range so it might be another year till I try further. |
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[Last Edit: HighpowerRifleBrony]
[#34]
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[#35]
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[#36]
Got some testing done today. Good results.
Strongly encourage anyone to do further testing with Ramshot Xterminator. Looking at the .223 and 5.56 highs and lows decided to try something in the middle. Tests of 23, 23.5, 24, and 24.5. 23 was a little over 2.5 MOA. Ok. 23.5 is at 1.75 MOA. Liking it. 24 was a shotgun with buckshot. 24.5, shotgun with slugs. 1.75? That’s it you say? Well the reason I give to try it out is that number came from an Aug with an Acog. There is definitely room for improvement. 16 inch barrel, unsure of twist, but probably 1x9. 23.5 grains of Ramshot Xterminator. LC 1x. Rem 7.5 primer. 2.245 COAL. There were no pressure signs all the way up to 24.5 grains, but, 25.3 is max for 5.56 loads so read up accordingly. Was tempted to put Acog on AR with 3.5lb trigger, but really wanted to see what the Aug could do, plus it was already zeroed. Will do this eventually, but I think this load has potential for 1 MOA in the right rifle combo. |
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[#37]
I’ve always wanted to buy some of those pulls, but could never find any.
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derp...
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[#38]
anyone have a good load for 855A1 ?
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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[#39]
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Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
[Last Edit: NC-rifle]
[#40]
I just received some of these M855A1 pulled projectiles for reloading.
I plan to use H335 at between 25.0 - 26.5 grains from reading this entire thread... #41 primers, LC once fired brass (resized), 1.750 trim, 2.250 C.O.L. My 10 bullet sample weighed 61.89 grains each, and weighing a pile of 100 confirmed that average (different scale). Length averaged 0.9962" with std deviation 0.0014", 0.994 min, 0.998 max. Update: I weighed the other 80 bullets individually, and that average was right at 62.0 grains. So all 90 would be 61.98 I have a MagnetoSpeed V3 (magnetic, barrel mounted) chronograph and heard some adjustment may be needed to avoid "error" messages with these projectiles. Anyone have experience/tips with this? Thanks, https://drive.google.com/file/d/19RBs9Vv0SQn0vEbsnVQfxu6OT4YcEVu3/view?usp=sharing |
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[Last Edit: NC-rifle]
[#41]
5/11/24 Range test load development.
56 deg F, 82%, 29.92"Hg; 550ft elevation 29.33"Hg Rifle is an Anderson 16” AR-15 with .223 Wylde chamber, 1/8 twist. No scope, so no real accuracy test; 75 yards. Started with factory Winchester M193 55gr for comparison/baseline. Previous range test with this ammo and same gun & chronograph averaged 3062 fps. Today’s average was 3012 fps. MagnetoSpeed V3 worked perfect. Then I shot 3 rounds of factory (military issue) M855A1. I could not get a reading on the MagnetoSpeed. Each shot showed “sensor 1 crossing bad”. Sensitivity was set at “2” and chronograph was right at 0.25” below bottom of rifle bore. Next I shot the lower grain hand loads (25.5 and 26.0) with M855A1 pulled projectiles. Same error. I changed sensitivity to “6” then to “9” and got the same error message. I put one hand loaded round of green tip, M855, with 25.5gr of H335 in the rifle. The MagnetoSpeed worked and recorded 2976 fps. Very minor primer flattening. Compared to previous range day with factory X-tac 2894 fps. So for my needs, I can reload M855 green tip projectiles at this powder charge. Only left with 2 rounds of M855A1 loaded with 26.3gr of H335, #41 Winchester primers (2024), LC 23 cases, 1.751” trim, 2.250” COL. Rechecked weather: 59 deg F, 70% RH, 29.92”Hg (29.33 at 550 ft range elevation). I unplugged the MagnetoSpeed, plugged back in, normal sensitivity. The first shot gave the same old error. So, I moved the device as far forward as my barrel profile allowed, about 1/4”. It worked ! Velocity was 3027 fps. One data point is better than none… Some minor primer flattening of these new Winchester #41 It looks like this load is safe. I wish I had the velocity from the factory, military issue M855A1 for comparison in my gun. That is why I brought 3 rounds with me. |
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[Last Edit: TGH456E]
[#42]
@NC Rifle:
"...... I wish I had the velocity from the factory, military issue M855A1 for comparison in my gun. That is why I brought 3 rounds with me......" Some numbers for you: Colt 6940 16" barrel 1/7 and Colt NATO chamber. 70F approx 5471ft Elevation Shooter Chrono set up 15ft from muzzle M855A1 WMA 16 ammunition: 10 shots Ave: 2995 ES 99.41 SD 31.93 Colt M4 set up (Colt 14.5 P/W to 16.1) 1/7 and Colt NATO chamber 14.5" barrel Same conditions: WMA 16 M855A1 ammunition: 10 shots AVE: 2886 ES 90.17 SD 26.96 |
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[#43]
Thanks for the 16" and 14.5" velocities with NATO chamber.
So, I am happy with the 3027 fps in my 16" with .223 Wylde chamber. No need for any more powder, especially for what I am doing. I have contacted MagnetoSpeed about suggestions. They don't seem to think the no-lead, copper/steel bullet should be any problem. From emails, they seem to be telling me to try everything, so no real educated guidance, IMO. They even mentioned trying greater than the 0.25" from sensor to bottom of barrel hole. ? I don't plan on using up 20-30 rounds of factory M855A1 just to verify exact velocity in my gun. If I can get a few velocities with 3 to 5 more rounds that is the most I plan to try. It doesn't make a difference to me if my average is 2950 or 3050 fps. |
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[#44]
Originally Posted By NC-rifle: Thanks for the 16" and 14.5" velocities with NATO chamber. So, I am happy with the 3027 fps in my 16" with .223 Wylde chamber. No need for any more powder, especially for what I am doing. I have contacted MagnetoSpeed about suggestions. They don't seem to think the no-lead, copper/steel bullet should be any problem. From emails, they seem to be telling me to try everything, so no real educated guidance, IMO. They even mentioned trying greater than the 0.25" from sensor to bottom of barrel hole. ? I don't plan on using up 20-30 rounds of factory M855A1 just to verify exact velocity in my gun. If I can get a few velocities with 3 to 5 more rounds that is the most I plan to try. It doesn't make a difference to me if my average is 2950 or 3050 fps. View Quote I dont use the Magneto speed thing.............. so I'm no help there. Yes, you seem to be "right there" as far as velocity. |
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