User Panel
Posted: 9/1/2022 5:55:00 PM EDT
Source
"In a first for the aviation industry, the FAA has approved supplemental type certificates (STCs) for the use of General Aviation Modifications Inc.’s G100UL 100-octane unleaded avgas in all general aviation piston aircraft. GAMI co-founder George Braly stated that the fuel will initially be produced in small batches while the manufacturing and distribution infrastructure is established. Although pricing for G100UL has not yet been determined, Braly noted it will cost “slightly more” than 100LL until production volume increases. “This is a big day for the industry,” said Braly. “It means that for a lot of our general aviation communities, and especially for a high fraction on the West Coast, relief is on the way. And it means that our industry will be able to go into the future and prosper, and provide the essential infrastructure for this country for everything from Angel Flights to critical training of our future airline pilots.”" |
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Well, the EPA will move in on leaded avgas soon. I’ll be glad to see it go.
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Quoted: Leaded gas is probably not a real problem. View Quote We know that leaded gas is terrible. The question is whether avgas, which is the leading source of airborne lead, is a health risk. People who love and work near GA airfields have higher concentrations of lead in their bodies and there is no safe level of lead exposure. |
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Leaded gas is best gas. If you really want to find gas with lead in it, think back to the good old days with 115/145.
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Isn't the shit they are boosting the octane with, like a million times worse than lead?
Sure the combustion products are fine but fuel tanks leak, and MTBE / Benzine like shit will give you a third (cancerous) testis. |
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PPL that don't like leaded gas probably still wear masks.
I run leaded in all my choppers Hi-compression or not and old 390 ford, screw Y'all |
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Quoted: We know that leaded gas is terrible. The question is whether avgas, which is the leading source of airborne lead, is a health risk. People who love and work near GA airfields have higher concentrations of lead in their bodies and there is no safe level of lead exposure. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Leaded gas is probably not a real problem. We know that leaded gas is terrible. The question is whether avgas, which is the leading source of airborne lead, is a health risk. People who love and work near GA airfields have higher concentrations of lead in their bodies and there is no safe level of lead exposure. Fun fact: Lead was not removed from gas because it's unhealthy. It was removed from gas because it was incompatible with catalytic converters. |
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Quoted: Isn't the shit they are boosting the octane with, like a million times worse than lead? Sure the combustion products are fine but fuel tanks leak, and MTBE / Benzine like shit will give you a third (cancerous) testis. View Quote Lead isn't there to boost the octane. It helps prevent detonation. |
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It will be interesting to see how the transition works...or doesn't.
100LL is the standard fuel for GA aircraft. Will airports put up another tank/pump for unleaded avgas? For how long? Decades? |
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Quoted: Lead isn't there to boost the octane. It helps prevent detonation. View Quote Ummmm. Octane ratings are a rating of a fuels resistance to detonation. And actually it’s not in aviation fuel for either reason. For some reason I don’t fully understand the valves of aircraft engines are particularly sensitive and leaded fuel is less harsh on them. But hey here’s to hoping opposed piston engines work out soon. Problem solved. |
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Quoted: It will be interesting to see how the transition works...or doesn't. 100LL is the standard fuel for GA aircraft. Will airports put up another tank/pump for unleaded avgas? For how long? Decades? View Quote My guess: once unleaded is proven in legacy applications EPA will mandate a phased withdrawal of leaded fuel from the market. Could be done in a decade. |
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Quoted: Ummmm. Octane ratings are a rating of a fuels resistance to detonation. And actually it’s not in aviation fuel for either reason. For some reason I don’t fully understand the valves of aircraft engines are particularly sensitive and leaded fuel is less harsh on them. But hey here’s to hoping opposed piston engines work out soon. Problem solved. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Lead isn't there to boost the octane. It helps prevent detonation. Ummmm. Octane ratings are a rating of a fuels resistance to detonation. And actually it’s not in aviation fuel for either reason. For some reason I don’t fully understand the valves of aircraft engines are particularly sensitive and leaded fuel is less harsh on them. But hey here’s to hoping opposed piston engines work out soon. Problem solved. Lead in gas is an anti-detonation agent. That is the reason why it's still in avgas. Leaded gas was available in a variety of octane ratings. Higher octane is obviously less prone to detonation, but also takes more heat/compression to burn efficiently. Lead prevents detonation without the need for higher octane. |
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Quoted: The lead is also a lubricant. If the epa does away with 100ll a lot of older airplanes will end in the scrap pile. With as expensive as aviation is already, older airplanes are only way many can fly. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Lead isn't there to boost the octane. It helps prevent detonation. The lead is also a lubricant. If the epa does away with 100ll a lot of older airplanes will end in the scrap pile. With as expensive as aviation is already, older airplanes are only way many can fly. My Champ has an STC to run autogas. I've never done it for that reason. And it stinks. |
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Quoted: Lead in gas is an anti-detonation agent. That is the reason why it's still in avgas. Leaded gas was available in a variety of octane ratings. Higher octane is obviously less prone to detonation, but also takes more heat/compression to burn efficiently. Lead prevents detonation without the need for higher octane. View Quote Lead increases octane rating so I’m not sure how you’re talking about needing more or less octane. The rating is based on a comparison of the fuel to a mixture of octane and heptane. Above 90 octane or so, lead or small quantities of specific aromatics added to be added to increase octane rating. Lead does so without the reduction in energy density or concerns about corrosion to gaskets and lines that can some with other additives. I looked up why aircraft like leaded fuel, apparently it has a cooling effect on the valves of an air cooled engine and that’s hard to replace with other formulations. |
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About time. FAA has drug this out long enough.
Hopefully the spool up on production won't take another 13 years. |
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Quoted: It will be interesting to see how the transition works...or doesn't. 100LL is the standard fuel for GA aircraft. Will airports put up another tank/pump for unleaded avgas? For how long? Decades? View Quote Depends on the FBO's and airports. Each airport is it's own bureaucracy. When the EPA forces a complete shutdown of 100LL, only that will finalize the transition. |
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I would bet a nickel that this could reduce the cost of avgas in the long run.
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Quoted: Lead increases octane rating so I’m not sure how you’re talking about needing more or less octane. The rating is based on a comparison of the fuel to a mixture of octane and heptane. Above 90 octane or so, lead or small quantities of specific aromatics added to be added to increase octane rating. Lead does so without the reduction in energy density or concerns about corrosion to gaskets and lines that can some with other additives. I looked up why aircraft like leaded fuel, apparently it has a cooling effect on the valves of an air cooled engine and that’s hard to replace with other formulations. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Lead in gas is an anti-detonation agent. That is the reason why it's still in avgas. Leaded gas was available in a variety of octane ratings. Higher octane is obviously less prone to detonation, but also takes more heat/compression to burn efficiently. Lead prevents detonation without the need for higher octane. Lead increases octane rating so I’m not sure how you’re talking about needing more or less octane. The rating is based on a comparison of the fuel to a mixture of octane and heptane. Above 90 octane or so, lead or small quantities of specific aromatics added to be added to increase octane rating. Lead does so without the reduction in energy density or concerns about corrosion to gaskets and lines that can some with other additives. I looked up why aircraft like leaded fuel, apparently it has a cooling effect on the valves of an air cooled engine and that’s hard to replace with other formulations. Leaded aviation gasoline used to come with octane ratings from 80 to 115. If it was just about raising the octane, there would never have been 80 octane leaded aviation gas. Lower compression engines can't burn high octane gas, but detonation is still a huge issue for aircraft because of higher performance demands and operating envelope. That's why there was lead in low octane gas. While lead does raise the octane rating, it acts in other ways to reduce detonation. |
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I doubt that AvGas contributes much to lead pollution in general, but I think the unleaded AvGas will be great for valves, pistons, oil and spark plugs.
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Quoted: Leaded aviation gasoline used to come with octane ratings from 80 to 115. If it was just about raising the octane, there would never have been 80 octane leaded aviation gas. Lower compression engines can't burn high octane gas, but detonation is still a huge issue for aircraft because of higher performance demands and operating envelope. That's why there was lead in low octane gas. While lead does raise the octane rating, it acts in other ways to reduce detonation. View Quote Octane rating is literally the measure of a fuels propensity to resist detonation. There isn’t a secret way that it reduces detonation that isn’t reflected in its rating. |
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How many people in the USA have died as a result of airborne lead poisoning in the last 50 years ?
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The Romans ate lead and still ruled the world for centuries.
We took the lead out of gas and paint because it made kids dumb. Look around you, do they seem any smarter now? |
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Quoted: Octane rating is literally the measure of a fuels propensity to resist detonation. There isn’t a secret way that it reduces detonation that isn’t reflected in its rating. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Leaded aviation gasoline used to come with octane ratings from 80 to 115. If it was just about raising the octane, there would never have been 80 octane leaded aviation gas. Lower compression engines can't burn high octane gas, but detonation is still a huge issue for aircraft because of higher performance demands and operating envelope. That's why there was lead in low octane gas. While lead does raise the octane rating, it acts in other ways to reduce detonation. Octane rating is literally the measure of a fuels propensity to resist detonation. There isn’t a secret way that it reduces detonation that isn’t reflected in its rating. Okay. Why did they put it in low octane fuel? |
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Quoted: We know that leaded gas is terrible. The question is whether avgas, which is the leading source of airborne lead, is a health risk. People who love and work near GA airfields have higher concentrations of lead in their bodies and there is no safe level of lead exposure. View Quote Any proof of this? Even when I worked in a fairly lead exposed environment I never raised my blood lead levels. |
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Quoted: Any proof of this? Even when I worked in a fairly lead exposed environment I never raised my blood lead levels. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: We know that leaded gas is terrible. The question is whether avgas, which is the leading source of airborne lead, is a health risk. People who love and work near GA airfields have higher concentrations of lead in their bodies and there is no safe level of lead exposure. Any proof of this? Even when I worked in a fairly lead exposed environment I never raised my blood lead levels. Blood level testing is a joke. Try a brain tissue biopsy if you want a real number. |
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Quoted: The lead is also a lubricant. If the epa does away with 100ll a lot of older airplanes will end in the scrap pile. With as expensive as aviation is already, older airplanes are only way many can fly. View Quote The same with sulfur in diesel fuel. The epa looks at it as forced obsolescence. They see this as a win. |
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Quoted: I would bet a nickel that this could reduce the cost of avgas in the long run. View Quote It's possible. It's extremely expensive to provide 100LL. Tanker trucks have to be dedicated to it, and I don't think they can even be cleaned to transport regular gas. For everything else, there is an extensive cleaning process to make sure mogas is not contaminated with lead. The only advantage is that all the stuff that's needed has already been bought. |
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Ok. so they have a fuel that might work. Are engine manufacturers going to certify it and issue a STC?
Don't think so. |
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Quoted: Osha requires blood testing in battery plants and not a brain biopsy any idea why? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Blood level testing is a joke. Try a brain tissue biopsy if you want a real number. Osha requires blood testing in battery plants and not a brain biopsy any idea why? Because they don't actually care about what happens to you anyway and a brain biopsy would kill you? |
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