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Posted: 7/9/2017 1:01:00 PM EDT
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U.S. special operators are in the market for a tiny assault rifle. Finding a weapon that meets the proposed requirements could be difficult, but not impossible. In fact, it actually looks like a gun company has already shown one to the Pentagon.
On March 9, 2017, U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM) posted a request for information regarding a new personal defense weapon (PDW) on FedBizOpps, the federal government’s main contracting website. Any interested company would have to provide information on a kit that uses the standard M4A1 lower receiver as the core of the gun. View Quote |
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Here's the RFI: https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=fe7079c93ffdef10c8739e461f05a2d8&tab=core&_cview=1
It's for a .300BO PDW Kit specifics: The kit must be adaptable to the standard M4A1 lower receiver, any modification to the lower receiver must be reversible and nonpermanent. The kit must be in .300 Blackout (BLK) cartridge, total system weight, including the M4A1 lower in not to exceed 5.5lbs. Length with stock extended not to extend 26" length with stock collapsed or folded shall be 17" (T), 15" (O) and a height not to exceed 7.5". Weapon shall be fully functional when collapsed or folded. Kit should include a 5.56mm barrel that can be changed from .300 BLK to 5.56mm in less than 3 minutes. Accuracy shall be 3.0 MOA (T), 2.0 MOA (O) @100 yds. and 5.0 MOA (T), 3.0 MOA (O) @ 300 yds. both in .300 BLK supersonic. View Quote |
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ETA, RIFF. But yeah, the RFI has been closed since April This is old news An MCX would have to have a 6" barrel to be 17" or less when folded, they are actually saying they would prefer 15" folded, also. Seems like it would make more sense to have different uppers for 300blk and 5.56, since they'll need their own zeroed optics and lasers ready to go in those 3 mins, also. It can be done, but why? RFI Q&A: 92222-17-RFI-DW Personal Defense Weapons Questions and Answers: Question 1. Is the 5.56 “quick change (3 min or less) barrel only a barrel or is it a complete upper? Answer 1. The intent is to only change the barrel, not the entire upper Question 2. Should the 300 BLK and 5.56 utilize the same suppressor? Answer 2. Yes, using the same suppressor Question 3. Could you please Offer more details as to all of the specifications you are looking for on the Personal Defense Weapon that’s posted on FBO.gov. Answer 3. We are currently developing the Performance Specification, when it is complete we will provide it to industry. All critical aspects of the system were mentioned in the RFI. Question 4. What are the meanings of (T) and (O) on the section that states ". Length with stock extended not to extend 26" length with stock collapsed or folded shall be 17" (T), 15" (O) and a height not to exceed 7.5"?" Answer 4. This means that the weapon must be less than 17" in length when the stock is collapsed or folded while still being fully operational, however it is desired that the weapon be no more than 15" in length when the stock is collapsed or folded while still being fully operational. Question 5. Can it be a standalone upper or does it need to be a quick change replacement barrel? Anser 5. The intent is to only change the barrel, not the entire upper Question 6. Does the overall weight and height requirements also include a magazine? Answer 6. The magazine is not included in the weight requirement. The height requirement does not include the magazine either. Question 7. The rifle with the stock fully extended, it shall not exceed 26" overall length? Answer 7. Yes, the weapon complete with stock extended may not exceed 26” overall. Question 8. The rifle with the stock collapsed or folded shall be no more than 17" overall length or 15" overall length? Answer 8. The length of the complete weapon system with stock collapsed or folded cannot exceed 17” as a minimum, the goal is to have a system that is no longer than 15” with stock collapsed or folded. Question 9. Pertaining to the 5.56 caliber portion- Namely, what is the desired overall length of the weapon, both with stock system collapsed and extended? Is SOCOM seeking the same dimensions as specified for 300 Blackout, or is the intent to maintain a longer overall length to ensure the rifle meets adequate MOA requirements at distance? Answer 9. The intent is to have the same length/size weapon in both calibers. Question 10. Would it be possible to provide the Government’s anticipated quantity for this requirement? Answer 10. We planned to procure 550 systems. |
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The AAC Honey Badger! |
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Last time we did this I thought we decided it was spec'd almost intentionally for the sig MCX family.
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Kit should include a 5.56mm barrel that can be changed from .300 BLK to 5.56mm in less than 3 minutes. View Quote Even so, they'd be better off just issuing spare uppers. |
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http://snagfilms-a.akamaihd.net/ee/59/4ff93d6e45af9463bc1f12aa0ec6/null Short barrel and collapsing stock 416. You can set that up for any caliber. If you want something that short, at what point does a MP7 make more sense? View Quote |
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Last time we did this I thought we decided it was spec'd almost intentionally for the sig MCX family. View Quote |
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What does this accomplish? Is any operator going to be refitting his weapon outside the wire, then rezeroing his sights, IR laser, optics? Even so, they'd be better off just issuing spare uppers. View Quote |
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This is where I think the Russians really got it right with the 9x39.
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I would have to double check the dimensions but I think an XCR micro meets the descriptions.
Eta-except for the ar lower part. |
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View Quote |
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I suppose the MP5 and it's cousins are officially retired relics at this point?
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Q is probably wanting to get the Honey Badger back in the game with this. We shall see.
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Quoted:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/aa/c0/df/aac0df03fc324c6f5ae772060ac0f098.jpg HK 21 PDW... View Quote |
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Something to accommodate all those female Rangers coming down the pipelie. ??
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At what point does 40 rounds of 4.6mm make more sense than 30 rounds of .300? I'd almost think this would replace the MP7 should units that have it decide so. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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http://snagfilms-a.akamaihd.net/ee/59/4ff93d6e45af9463bc1f12aa0ec6/null Short barrel and collapsing stock 416. You can set that up for any caliber. If you want something that short, at what point does a MP7 make more sense? 1) SWAT teams looking for something with less penetration for hostage type situations. 2) Special forces looking for something that suppresses better. 3) Ultra compact weapons for vehicle crew members. 4) Very niche, but body guards that need something just a tiny bit bigger than a pistol but something that can still be somewhat concealed. Number one is dying due to proliferation of 5.56 carbines and newer rounds as I understand it. There are holdouts because some countries have not got with the program, but mostly it is due to funding. Plenty of MP5s in use all over Europe. .300 BO seems to kill the need for SF to use 9mm suppressed. Number three may be a mix. Looks like most tank crews carry a short 5.56 carbine these days. I think this is ideal for ammo commonality. Even Marines carry M4s in their Cobras. I know the Dutch started issuing B&T MP9s in full auto in addition to the Glock 19 for F-16 pilots. Four I can see something like an MP9 or MP7 being superior to a .300 carbine. I think SMGs with 4.5-5" barrels and load from the grip will be the future for this role. They already were niche, but that niche got smaller. Very different from WWII, in which they were often issued to front line troops in the USSR. |
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View Quote 17" collapsed/folded is a big ask out of an AR platform. At least if you expect it to have decent ballistics even with a 300 bo.... I have one thats about 20" collapsed with a troy pdw stock and an 8.5" bbl. So you would need a 5" bbl... 300BO is good, but a 5" bbl? Its gonna suck. You might shave an inch or two off collapsed length by using a LAW folder but still it would be hokey as shit ballistically. A troy M7a1 has a 7.5" bbl and comes in at 21" collapsed per the interwebz... |
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https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/aa/c0/df/aac0df03fc324c6f5ae772060ac0f098.jpg HK 21 PDW... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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Integral suppressed 300 blk MCX is being T&E or already in use with a few units.
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I suppose the MP5 and it's cousins are officially retired relics at this point? View Quote So they want an AR-15 in an MP5k form factor basically. 300BO needs about a 8-9" bbl to be decently effective, sooo nope.. |
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Too long IIRC... 17" collapsed/folded is a big ask out of an AR platform. At least if you expect it to have decent ballistics even with a 300 bo.... I have one thats about 20" collapsed with a troy pdw stock and an 8.5" bbl. So you would need a 5" bbl... 300BO is good, but a 5" bbl? Its gonna suck. You might shave an inch or two off collapsed length by using a LAW folder but still it would be hokey as shit ballistically. A troy M7a1 has a 7.5" bbl and comes in at 21" collapsed per the interwebz... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Too long IIRC... 17" collapsed/folded is a big ask out of an AR platform. At least if you expect it to have decent ballistics even with a 300 bo.... I have one thats about 20" collapsed with a troy pdw stock and an 8.5" bbl. So you would need a 5" bbl... 300BO is good, but a 5" bbl? Its gonna suck. You might shave an inch or two off collapsed length by using a LAW folder but still it would be hokey as shit ballistically. A troy M7a1 has a 7.5" bbl and comes in at 21" collapsed per the interwebz... |
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http://snagfilms-a.akamaihd.net/ee/59/4ff93d6e45af9463bc1f12aa0ec6/null Short barrel and collapsing stock 416. You can set that up for any caliber. If you want something that short, at what point does a MP7 make more sense? View Quote |
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Sounds like the test was designed for the MPX. I wonder if the micro tavor in 300 could work?
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Integral suppressed 300 blk MCX is being T&E or already in use with a few units. View Quote Also is the MCX compatible with standard uppers? |
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Already done:
https://www.knightarmco.com/pdw-8-10/ Knight's PDW |
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Folded with a 9" bbl its 19.5", chop off 2.5" inches to get it to the 17" its a 6.5" bbl. Thats not gonna be great ballistically for 300 BO, at least if you are using supers. To get it to the 15" mark its a 4.5" bbl at which point LOL... Also is the MCX compatible with standard uppers? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Integral suppressed 300 blk MCX is being T&E or already in use with a few units. Also is the MCX compatible with standard uppers? |
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http://snagfilms-a.akamaihd.net/ee/59/4ff93d6e45af9463bc1f12aa0ec6/null Short barrel and collapsing stock 416. You can set that up for any caliber. If you want something that short, at what point does a MP7 make more sense? View Quote |
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Ok. They are already in use. Don't know they specifics. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Integral suppressed 300 blk MCX is being T&E or already in use with a few units. Also is the MCX compatible with standard uppers? |
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