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Posted: 2/6/2023 1:27:07 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: A while back I had bought a mid length freedom upper from PSA. It was a deal of the day and was fairly cheep. I overlooked the fact that it was a mid length. I'm kind of embarrassed to admit, I couldn't tell you what the advantage is of one over the other. So school me GD. In general terms, midlength uppers are more reliable. There was some pretty significant (a couple ten thousands of rounds) testing I did on a couple midlength uppers vs carbine uppers before pushing for APC to standardize on recommending midlength. Plus you can use it with a bayonet. Poke all the things! |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 1:28:06 PM EDT
[#2]
Recoil. Mid length is much better.
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Posted: 2/6/2023 1:28:28 PM EDT
[#3]
middies tend to be superior for your average 16 inch barrel 556.
it is merely the length of the gastube/distance of gas port from receiver. The slightly longer dwell time on a midlength tends to cause less mechanical stress on the affected parts. In shorter barrels youll want less dwell time |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 1:28:58 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Recoil. Mid length is much better. This. The longer the gas system (typically) the softer shooting it will be. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 1:44:20 PM EDT
[#5]
you lucked out mid is much smoother
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Posted: 2/6/2023 1:46:01 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In general terms, midlength uppers are more reliable. There was some pretty significant (a couple ten thousands of rounds) testing I did on a couple midlength uppers vs carbine uppers before pushing for APC to standardize on recommending midlength. Plus you can use it with a bayonet. Poke all the things! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A while back I had bought a mid length freedom upper from PSA. It was a deal of the day and was fairly cheep. I overlooked the fact that it was a mid length. I'm kind of embarrassed to admit, I couldn't tell you what the advantage is of one over the other. So school me GD. In general terms, midlength uppers are more reliable. There was some pretty significant (a couple ten thousands of rounds) testing I did on a couple midlength uppers vs carbine uppers before pushing for APC to standardize on recommending midlength. Plus you can use it with a bayonet. Poke all the things! You can mount a bayonet on the 14.5s. Just saying. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 1:46:46 PM EDT
[#7]
Mid for 16
Carbine for 14.5 Carbine usually feels more balanced to me but they are both fine in my experience. Edit Properly gassed rifle is more noticeable than gas length as far as recoil |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 1:46:54 PM EDT
[#8]
I have both. I can't tell a difference.
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Posted: 2/6/2023 1:47:21 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: you lucked out mid is much smoother Yep you definitely want the middie unless the barrel is too short for it. As posted softer shooting, less stress on parts. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 1:48:15 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mid for 16 Fixt |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 1:56:04 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have both. I can't tell a difference. Yeah Have colt Carbine that shoots relatively smooth and a bcm middy that is pretty snappy with a comp. It's gas port in my opinion |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 1:57:45 PM EDT
[#12]
Not overgassed, 4 o' clock ejections are smooth. Less recoil.
Handguard options are fewer if it has the triangle cap. MOE is okay. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 1:58:44 PM EDT
[#13]
middy 16 is the perfect combo.
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Posted: 2/6/2023 1:59:31 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Recoil. Mid length is much better. This, plus while shooting with my brother and nephew this weekend I realized the Mid-length report wasn't as loud as the carbine. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 2:01:06 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: A while back I had bought a mid length freedom upper from PSA. It was a deal of the day and was fairly cheep. I overlooked the fact that it was a mid length. I'm kind of embarrassed to admit, I couldn't tell you what the advantage is of one over the other. So school me GD. luckily you picked the better one. midlength is likely better all the way down to 13.7" maybe even 12.5" barrel length. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 2:02:12 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. The longer the gas system (typically) the softer shooting it will be. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Recoil. Mid length is much better. This. The longer the gas system (typically) the softer shooting it will be. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 2:03:00 PM EDT
[#17]
I'm not sure why anyone would want a carbine 16".
Midlength 16" is superior in every way. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 2:03:54 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mid for 16 Carbine for 14.5 Carbine usually feels more balanced to me but they are both fine in my experience. Edit Properly gassed rifle is more noticeable than gas length as far as recoil Rifle for 14.8. Mid for 14.5. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 2:03:55 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah Have colt Carbine that shoots relatively smooth and a bcm middy that is pretty snappy with a comp. It's gas port in my opinion Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have both. I can't tell a difference. Yeah Have colt Carbine that shoots relatively smooth and a bcm middy that is pretty snappy with a comp. It's gas port in my opinion My carbine gas is also a Colt. Interesting... |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 2:05:04 PM EDT
[#20]
Dwell time. Everything doesn't matter.
Once the bullet passes the gas port in the barrel, it's now a cork keeping pressure building up inside the gas system. A carbine length gas system on a 16" barrel means there will be additional pressure buildup in the gas system, causing the bolt to rotate faster as it unlocks from the chamber. Faster rotation means the extractor can be "flung outwards" as it rotates and lose grip on the fired case. This is why you need rubber o-rings in addition to extractor springs. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 2:05:59 PM EDT
[#21]
If you’re @ semi auto and unsuppressed then the difference is not even measurable.
Either / Or |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 2:08:44 PM EDT
[#22]
I have : (4) 20" , (3) 16" mid-length, (1) 16" barreled uppers from PSA.
I like (enjoy) shooting Mid-length a lot more than Carbine. But prefer Rifle (Gov't barrel) to Mid. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 2:10:15 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Recoil. Mid length is much better. in a .223??? How the heck can you tell. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 2:12:43 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: in a .223??? How the heck can you tell. Watch your dot movement when shooting doubles. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 2:14:02 PM EDT
[#25]
Both feel about the same to me. Run what you prefer.
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Posted: 2/6/2023 2:30:21 PM EDT
[#26]
Why aren't all 16" set up for mid-length? Any potential cons?
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Posted: 2/6/2023 2:32:20 PM EDT
[#27]
18" rifle gas is the sweet spot
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Posted: 2/6/2023 2:34:09 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 18" rifle gas is the sweet spot For a 308 |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 2:58:29 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For a 308 It’s like butter in a 5.56. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 3:04:52 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s like butter in a 5.56. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: For a 308 It’s like butter in a 5.56. I thought it was overhyped until I finally built one |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 3:05:54 PM EDT
[#31]
All my 16" rifles are mid-length. I would have it no other way.
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Posted: 2/6/2023 3:09:34 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: luckily you picked the better one. midlength is likely better all the way down to 13.7" maybe even 12.5" barrel length. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A while back I had bought a mid length freedom upper from PSA. It was a deal of the day and was fairly cheep. I overlooked the fact that it was a mid length. I'm kind of embarrassed to admit, I couldn't tell you what the advantage is of one over the other. So school me GD. luckily you picked the better one. midlength is likely better all the way down to 13.7" maybe even 12.5" barrel length. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 3:16:45 PM EDT
[#33]
16 mid with H buffer and 16 carbine with H2 will feel almost identical imo.
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Posted: 2/6/2023 3:19:38 PM EDT
[#34]
Mid length gas on a 16” barrel permits bayonet mounting.
Therefore it is the correct configuration. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 3:20:28 PM EDT
[#35]
Generally speaking, the longer the gas tube, the smoother the operation of the rifle as the port pressure is lower.
Using an adjustable gas block can mitigate some of the high pressure on carbine length, but an adjustable gas block on a mid length will do the same thing, only better. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 5:44:12 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 16 mid with H buffer and 16 carbine with H2 will feel almost identical imo. I bought a Colt 6920 EPR. I put a H2 Super42 in it and a SSA-E. Smooth shooter. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 5:49:08 PM EDT
[#37]
It’s a toss up between a classic 20” rifle system and a 14.5” mid length gas system when it comes to what I prefer.
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Posted: 2/6/2023 5:56:09 PM EDT
[#38]
I don’t see any disadvantages to them.
They are way more common now than back in 2008 when I got into ARs. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 5:56:25 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mid length gas on a 16” barrel permits bayonet mounting. Therefore it is the correct configuration. You beat me to it, my cultured friend! |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 5:57:58 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not overgassed, 4 o' clock ejections are smooth. Less recoil. Handguard options are fewer if it has the triangle cap. MOE is okay. I bought a cheap Midlength upper from PSA and it has this issue. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 5:58:50 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you’re @ semi auto and unsuppressed then the difference is not even measurable. Either / Or Yet to the experienced, it's quite noticeable. Mid all day on a 16. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 5:59:53 PM EDT
[#42]
I like mid better than carbine. The softer recoil helps me stay on target better.
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Posted: 2/6/2023 6:08:48 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Recoil. Mid length is much better. this. mid is way smoother/softer shooting IMO. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 6:15:14 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yet to the experienced, it's quite noticeable. Mid all day on a 16. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you’re @ semi auto and unsuppressed then the difference is not even measurable. Either / Or Yet to the experienced, it's quite noticeable. Mid all day on a 16. this. Ergos are better, everything is better. At the heart of it: 7" of dwell time is like the Avogadro's number of Stoner's design. The AR15 was designed as a rifle length barrel and rifle length gas system to have 7" of dwell time. Carbine length gas system was designed for the 14" bbl to have... 7" of dwell time! Carbine length gas system on a 16" barrel is bullshit that is the result of dumb fuck laws and nothing to do with design (eta: this combination results in 9" of dwell time). If you're stuck with a 16" bbl, then mid length gas is the correct answer - 7" of dwell time. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 6:58:12 PM EDT
[#45]
I mainly shoot suppressed with short barrels no longer than 12". Currently using carbine length gas and adjustable gas port to fine tune.
Curious what those with 12" barrels and mid length are experiencing suppressed. All my longer (16-20") barrelled AR's are have mid or rifle length gas systems |
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Posted: 2/7/2023 1:30:47 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In general terms, midlength uppers are more reliable. There was some pretty significant (a couple ten thousands of rounds) testing I did on a couple midlength uppers vs carbine uppers before pushing for APC to standardize on recommending midlength. Plus you can use it with a bayonet. Poke all the things! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A while back I had bought a mid length freedom upper from PSA. It was a deal of the day and was fairly cheep. I overlooked the fact that it was a mid length. I'm kind of embarrassed to admit, I couldn't tell you what the advantage is of one over the other. So school me GD. In general terms, midlength uppers are more reliable. There was some pretty significant (a couple ten thousands of rounds) testing I did on a couple midlength uppers vs carbine uppers before pushing for APC to standardize on recommending midlength. Plus you can use it with a bayonet. Poke all the things! Yup, you sure can!  
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Posted: 2/7/2023 1:35:53 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 16 mid with H buffer and 16 carbine with H2 will feel almost identical imo. I had to switch from an H buffer to a carbine buffer on my first build. After a couple hundred rounds or so it stopped running reliably with the H buffer. Swapped the tungsten weight for a steel one and now it works fine. My other one has had a carbine buffer from the start. |
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Posted: 2/7/2023 2:01:36 AM EDT
[#48]
IMO always go with the longest possible gas system. under 14.5" use carbine. 14.5-16 use midlength, 18+ use rifle.
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Posted: 2/7/2023 2:18:39 AM EDT
[#49]
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Posted: 2/7/2023 2:28:49 AM EDT
[#50]
Personally midlength looks better to me and you have softer recoil for better follow up shots.
I think (personally) that the Carbine or pistol length gas system looks good on Shor barrels, nothing 14.5" or longer. You have half the barrel dangling out like your dick in the wind. Then you have also less handguard to position your hand on. Overall looks stupid, less functional, and more recoil. I'm not sure why they're so popular. Because of how I feel about this, I recently bought a Daniel Defense 14.5" barrel that is CHF and is mid-length with the FSB. I want a nice shooting gun for when things get hairy. |
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