When I got into CCWing a pistol for protection in the mid 2000s seems like crimson trace laser grips and laser max guide rods were all the rage. Or so it seemed to me.


Fast forward to 2024 I very rarely see them on carry guns now.


Why have they fallen out of favor? With in close range they make sense. I run a TLR6 in my G42.

Thoughts?

Shows the bad guy exactly where to shoot.

gay

optics.

like a laser the BG cant see.

One too many accidental cat shootings.

I have a S&W 380 chief special with a green laser. I’m glad, it has tiny sights and a 10 pound trigger.
They have some uses.

I find them to be fragile. Holster selection is minimal unless the Combo is G19 and TLR-2.
For me, they offer no advantages.

They are great when your eyesight is fucked up.

They work great in movies.

I have a Crimson Trace on a J frame that goes in my pocket occasionally.  It helps make that little gun surprisingly accurate and fast on target.

MRDS have replaced them.
Back when I bought my edc 1911 many years agoe, it had Crimson Trace grips and Meprolite sites.
It now has a Holosun which made both of them obsolete.

I find myself getting hyper focused on the little dot and trying to make it stay still, which just makes it get more squiggly, which makes me hyper focus even harder, which makes it even more squiggly...

Most quality made ones were priced at a level that people who actually train with their weapons found it hard to justify the cost over other accesories.  Those that did buy quality ones found very limited advantages in certain situations, and that they didn't improve their shooting skills enough to pursue them further.
Those who bought cheap lasers discovered they did not offer any substantial advantages and were prone to failures often.

Lasers work two ways.  Not a great idea unless it is NVG style.

I used my EDC with TLR2 and laser in a shooting once. Even though it was dark, I didn't take the time to activate the light or laser. It was more of a point and shoot at close range sort of thing.

I still have lights on my EDC guns but I don't feel the need to add lasers anymore.

However, when doing target practice at night, the laser is fun and fast. It can also help to diagnose issues with new shooters / show them flinching.

Ditto, they work way better and more naturally on revolvers, imo. That's the gun I'll hand my wife if I need to.

I had a guide rod one on my Gen 2 glock that's now a safe queen, but it seems a little gimmicky, and the CT grips on an already fat grip are too over the top.

Red dot sights

I learned that I hold like Michael J Fox.

I think that slide mounted red dots replaced them.

Red dots is what happened. Made them almost obsolete....

My 340PD...
....that I hardly ever carry anymore.
But I did for years, with a CT grip on it.

I got a fantastic deal on a crimson trace set of grips. Put them in and shot a box of ammo with the laser. Immediately afterwards, I took them off. I was paying more attention to the stupid dot than to fundamentals. I’m better without a laser.

I've had a Lasermax guide rod laser in my G21 for 20 years. It was a gift from my wife when we were dating. It still works well after all these years but the plastic battery cap has to be replaced every 5-10 years when it cracks. A cracked cap will throw the POI off a couple of extra inches but otherwise POI is always within an inch of POA at up to 25 yds.

Using it for dry fire practice helped me correct a pull I had developed. I like having it but since it's an old red version it can be useless in bright sunlight. For the price they go for I think a RMR is a better solution, but that wasn't an option back then.

Waiting on Ken Hackathorn to chime in

I also have one on my bedside G17. Between the laser and the Streamlight I can see what and where I am pointing at without my glasses.

Skip the gun, just use a laser?

Truth

I bought a Ruger LCR with the Crimson Trace grips.  Kind of fun at when it is almost dark and you are shooting spinner targets.  Eventually the battery died, I found Hogue boot grips and I liked the way they felt and carried and shot better.  Still haven't bought a replacement battery.

That kid sounds like a total fag. Though probably a smart fag.  That said I’ve been lazed by green lasers in airplanes a couple times. And recently on a cruise ship at least a thousand yards off the coast of Mexico. Probably much more but it was dark.

Emitting is gross?

Actually shooting with them is slower and worse than other modern options unless you are shooting around a shield (I’m not) or slaying a non-NODs group of critters at night (I’m not)

Kinda like tracers and weapons mounted lights.

Good for point shooting training. I still have a Steiner dual laser on a Beretta 92 that is very quick for drawing and firing from positions that don’t allow for the best connection with my sights. I think they still have their place.

What happened was people started paying attention to how they actually perform and it was found that they are measurably slower than aimed fire.

Here’s the thing, lasers are completely legal in some competitive venues and divisions yet are never used*, why? Because there’s no user feedback unless you’re already on target.

The real world exception being a shield man on an entry team. Here, it’s the least bad option so it works somewhat acceptably. But you’re not going to be doing that, are you?


*The competitive exception being USPSA/IDPA PCC division. Here they’re useful in an amazingly narrow set of conditions which only exist due to the framework of the rule set and do not directly transfer to the real world.

I thought Ken said they’re overrated.

Their best uses are for tiny revolvers, cops equipped with shields, and for teaching new shooters the fundamentals.

I've owned a set or two over the years, but sold always ended up selling them. I did recently pick up a Glock 17L which has a set of Crimson Trace grips on it, but I'll almost certainly end up pulling them off as soon as I pick up a replacement frame pin.

They're measurably the slowest aiming system available.

THIS

I think they're far more valuable as a training tool than anything else.

Attached File

I'm guessing there is more $$$ to be made in red dot optics

it’s not about money

it’s about performance….or the lack of

They're slow and for people that can't shoot.

This. As I have gotten older I use them on my carry guns, they help me in low-light conditions. I tried an RDS and just could not get the hang of it.

329.00 for a Crimson Trace? That's more than I paid for my 442 thirty five years ago.

I have only seen one guy use one effectively. He was using it on a sub machine gun.

Seems like a good idea but people, usually, substitute it for training

Nobody likes to see how shaky they are, and they don't work outdoors in sunlight.

Just another tool in the toolbox as far as I’m concerned.

The few Glocks I own have Lasermax guide rods. When I set up my VP9s I went with Steiner optics and lights. They made a light with a built in laser, so I got lights with the laser.

We've found that even with shields, pistol mounted mrds are still faster and easier than lasers.

The only lasers we still use on the team are on rifles (peq 15s), and those are for use with gas masks and nods, as well as deconflicting on dual entrys on large structures. Most guys are using risers for optics nowadays, so even with gas masks and nods they aren't using lasers for aiming.

What he said. On micros-nanos---"guns that disappear"---I find they're more useful than sticking an RMR on it.  Otherwise, they're much slower than dots---else they'd be the rage in gun games---and you end up hunting the dot on the bad guy, instead of presenting and shooting.  In my limited experience.  A CT on a LCP sized pistol doesn't change the holster or concealability.  

Everything bigger, including Glock 26/P30SK and the like, gets a dot.

Lasers. LOL.

I wrote the first policy on lasers on pistols for my department circa-1996-ish. Not a fan or lasers at that time, "The Chief" had one, his buddy and that guy's buddy did and they wanted to see them authorized. Doesn't mean I gotta be a fan too. LOL. Gave me his personal one to test, a CRDC. About double the size of a TLR-1. Ish. Specifically told me he will get it back in working order, as he'd already seen how rough I was on "testing". Not all the "sales/testing" samples I was provided over the years survived my testing, which was nothing more than the use I'd subject ANY carry weapon to) Good stuff survived this. Cheep shit...didn't. LOL.

Wrote him a two page memo why they were a good idea...and bad. Pulled no punches. He chuckled when I didn't balk at him authorizing them over my clear position not to. See, I get paid to make you look good, Chief. Your cooperation helps. But what I DO, is provide you with the most ACCURATE information I can so YOU can make an informed decision. My personal position doesn't enter into it. I'm not the fucking Sun King, right? LOL. So you make your decision, my job is then to carry it out. Schedule classes, write policy which you yourself will approve and the people who want to will carry them. Simple.
Anyway

Those CRDC lasers performed about as well as I predicted; inside of five or so years, none of them worked anymore. They never asked for me to approve any other models so it was a moot point, though the SWAT Bubba's found a use for them in certain situations such as working from behind ballistic shields. (they did not use CRDC) This department has, wonders of wonders, stood the tests of time in keeping up with the joneses. Embraced RDS on pistols, LVPO optics for Patrol in addition to the standard whatknot they carry for rifles in 5.56/223 or 308 caliber.

I did have a student in one of the classes I put on for IALEFI back when, his department issued them for their duty pistols, Glock 17. Their Chief bought a bunch, handed'em out at roll call. No practice, nuttin'. This guy had carried it like this months? Found out during my class (first time he'd shot more than a mag's worth) his pistol was a jammamatic. Asked if I had a spare recoil assembly, which I did in my rolling armorer's kit (A Chevy one ton long van at the time) He proceeded to field strip his pistol, remove laser, install factory recoil spring assembly, fired three mags worth no stoppages. Then, he stomps that lasermax or whatever to death. LOL

Had other students use them with varying degrees of success. Only one I have is a set of grips on a Ruger with a laser. It's not a normal EDC but I play with it. Works, but I like irons better.
I have one pistol with a RDS.
But I like irons better.
So Solly.
LOL