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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:04:54 AM EDT
[#1]
Some explosive charges in key areas of those machines, or likely even a solid sledgehammering would relegate them to extremely large and heavy paperweights.
ETA: I wouldn't trust a software bricking to be permanent enough. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:05:52 AM EDT
[#2]
Doh
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:11:33 AM EDT
[#3]
Demolition charges?
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:13:56 AM EDT
[#4]
Explosives should do the trick.
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:15:30 AM EDT
[#5]
Saw that a few days ago but does us no good as we need the chips. China forcing us to “turn them off” only denies us the chips too and we need them more than China does. China can ruin our economy and our entire position in Asia just by attempting to seize Taiwan we don’t just lose the chips we lose South Korea, Japan and all the East Asian countries trade if they successfully take Taiwan or we don’t bother defending it
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:17:00 AM EDT
[#6]
I wonder if you can cause physical destruction through overheating, over speeding, or ignoring limit switches or whatever these machines have.
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:17:29 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Saw that a few days ago but does us no good as we need the chips. China forcing us to “turn them off” only denies us the chips too and we need them more than China does. China can ruin our economy and our entire position in Asia just by attempting to seize Taiwan we don’t just lose the chips we lose South Korea, Japan and all the East Asian countries trade Already have 3 fabs being built in AZ, might as well bring the rest of them over while they're at it. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:19:40 AM EDT
[#8]
China will just start shooting stadiums full of people until someone turns the machines back on. Even then they may not stop shooting people.
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:26:31 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Saw that a few days ago but does us no good as we need the chips. China forcing us to "turn them off" only denies us the chips too and we need them more than China does. China can ruin our economy and our entire position in Asia just by attempting to seize Taiwan we don't just lose the chips we lose South Korea, Japan and all the East Asian countries trade if they successfully take Taiwan or we don't bother defending it It would ruin the Chinese economy too, which I why I remain skeptical that China will do anything more than rattle sabers. Then again, the Chinese might look at Joe Biden and decide they'll never get a better opportunity to strike. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:26:57 AM EDT
[#10]
Are their any other facilities that can produce those chips? How long would it take to set up a replacement facility?
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:30:04 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are their any other facilities that can produce those chips? How long would it take to set up a replacement facility? Yes, A long time. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:30:49 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are their any other facilities that can produce those chips? How long would it take to set up a replacement facility? Samsung has 2 fabs in Austin Texas, a 3rd just finished in Taylor with 4 more on the way |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:33:48 AM EDT
[#13]
So maybe US companies outsourcing all their fabrication work to a country directly by China wasn't a good idea? Almost as if there are national security concerns around manufacturing we should be paying attention to. Like maybe all prescription drugs being made overseas also...
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:36:08 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Already got a pair of fabs being made in my state, might as well bring the rest of them over while they're at it. Would take a decade under best case scenario and ideal conditions and you still lose South Korea, Japan and East Asia trade, etc if China ever successfully seizes control of Taiwan. So far the new USA fabs have continual hiccups, problems, delays and government interference |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:37:18 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even a Chinese blockade of the island would ruin our economy; no invasion necessary. It would ruin the Chinese economy too, which I why I remain skeptical that China will do anything more than rattle sabers. Then again, the Chinese might look at Joe Biden and decide they'll never get a better opportunity to strike. Xi Jinping is no spring chicken and China knows sometime in the 2030s they start losing military aged population so the clock is ticking for the military option |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:38:41 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some explosive charges in key areas of those machines, or likely even a solid sledgehammering would relegate them to extremely large and heavy paperweights. ETA: I wouldn't trust a software bricking to be permanent enough. Don't underestimate China's reverse engineering ability. Thecmite is needed, plenty of thermite. Further, I would hope that of war starts, a deadman switch is implemented. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:39:15 AM EDT
[#17]
Remind me again why the world has critical manufacturing plants in unstable regions?
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:41:10 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are their any other facilities that can produce those chips? How long would it take to set up a replacement facility? About 5 years..... Oh, wait, sorry, that's just how long it will take to get the permits, complete the government-mandated study on the facility's impact on the digestive tract of the Portuguese long-haired mountain otter, and to complete union negotiations. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:41:49 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Remind me again why the world has critical manufacturing plants in unstable regions? Because the boomers got addicted to consumerism and the idea of saving $11 on a TV. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:42:43 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Samsung has 2 fabs in Austin Texas, a 3rd just finished in Taylor with 4 more on the way Is the Austin fab where they manufacture the 3nm chip? |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:44:52 AM EDT
[#21]
Any situation for the chicoms is win-win
If they lose a million people, that's just a million less they gotta feed |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:46:26 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Remind me again why the world has critical manufacturing plants in unstable regions? My first guess would be MBAs saving a buck. Many of our business leaders are focused on short term gain because that is what they are paid on. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:46:58 AM EDT
[#23]
Permanently destroying the machines would be economically crippling to their country for a long time, if they were able to remain independent. They're in a tough spot, and so are we for reducing our resources to a single source.
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:47:02 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Remind me again why the world has critical manufacturing plants in unstable regions? Cheaper than shit in the short run. Save a couple of bucks, pop that golden parachute, and bail before the tab has to be paid |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:49:30 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because the boomers got addicted to consumerism and the idea of saving $11 on a TV. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Remind me again why the world has critical manufacturing plants in unstable regions? Because the boomers got addicted to consumerism and the idea of saving $11 on a TV. NAFTA is actually a good deal for us; we usually export as much to Mexico and Canada as we import from them. We have never come close to running a trade surplus with China since opening up our economy to them; it's been a money pit for over 20 years. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:52:46 AM EDT
[#26]
There are multiple factors but the main reason why those fabs are in Taiwan and not in the US has to do with the Taiwanese government making a strategic decision in the 1980s to subsidize them.
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:53:18 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some explosive charges in key areas of those machines, or likely even a solid sledgehammering would relegate them to extremely large and heavy paperweights. ETA: I wouldn't trust a software bricking to be permanent enough. Agreed. They might be able to stop them from working, but with relatively intact hardware the Chinese can get around the lack of software, it'll just take longer. Good luck figuring out how it worked after the room gets painted with its internal parts. ETA: The other suggestion of using thermite is even better. A pile of slag isn't going to provide much info. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:54:20 AM EDT
[#28]
I think it’s more than just “disable”.
Chances are, they have a “Doomsday” protocol in place that involves things like explosives/electricsal overloads, etc. to destroy the machinery and the buildings that house them. I get a distinct feeling Taiwan will destroy everything in case of invasion. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:57:49 AM EDT
[#29]
IF China Invades there will be locals who ensure that does not happen so they can handover intact technology to the CCP and ensure their own survival. Even if they dont unless those machines --all of them-- are so completely destroyed down to the circuit board and component level China could cobble together working ones from remaining parts and reverse engineer new machines in months. And if the powers that be dont think China will open any invasion by cutting off and and all communications to the islands first including satellites unless those machines are equipped with some kind of dead hand device how are you going to disable or destroy something you do not have any access to? Guaranteed the CCP already has access to that tech and is already working on copying them when they are successful the question will be moot regardless. Anyway having your most advanced and strategic tech in an area that is so forward and vulnerable is foolish in the extreme. Hell given enough time the Bidens will likely sell it to them.
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:58:38 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryCarmelBytheSea: Saw that a few days ago but does us no good as we need the chips. China forcing us to “turn them off” only denies us the chips too and we need them more than China does. China can ruin our economy and our entire position in Asia just by attempting to seize Taiwan we don’t just lose the chips we lose South Korea, Japan and all the East Asian countries trade if they successfully take Taiwan or we don’t bother defending it |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 11:02:36 AM EDT
[#31]
Let’s say all the chip-making capabilities are destroyed - would CCP still want the strategic location..?
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Posted: 5/26/2024 11:17:48 AM EDT
[#32]
You all think this just happened all of a sudden?
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Posted: 5/26/2024 11:22:13 AM EDT
[#33]
The B2 can disable chip machines too.
Quoted: Let’s say all the chip-making capabilities are destroyed - would CCP still want the strategic location..? Yes, it's an Asian thing, PRC believes Taiwan is the rouge child that needs to come back into the fold... It's also a good rallying point for Xi. Other than the chip manufacturing, nobody really gives a shit about Taiwan, and nobody really wants to piss off China. Looking at how the US has (or hasn't) supplied them over the decades. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 11:26:00 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You all think this just happened all of a sudden? https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_pcYXZFgMUA/maxresdefault.jpg |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 11:28:30 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Let’s say all the chip-making capabilities are destroyed - would CCP still want the strategic location..? Without a doubt. In fact, the chip fab is at best, icing on the cake. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 11:29:32 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The B2 can disable chip machines too. Yes, it's an Asian thing, PRC believes Taiwan is the rouge child that needs to come back into the fold... It's also a good rallying point for Xi. Other than the chip manufacturing, nobody really gives a shit about Taiwan, and nobody really wants to piss off China. Looking at how the US has (or hasn't) supplied them over the decades. Well, to be fair, Taiwan literally is a rogue child.... If the state of Alaska declared its independence from the U.S. do you think that the government would just let that go? |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 11:31:48 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, to be fair, Taiwan literally is a rogue child.... If the state of Alaska declared its independence from the U.S. do you think that the government would just let that go? Welcome, fellow gun enthusiast! |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 11:32:51 AM EDT
[#38]
[Deleted]
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Posted: 5/26/2024 11:40:02 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, to be fair, Taiwan literally is a rogue child.... If the state of Alaska declared its independence from the U.S. do you think that the government would just let that go? It's a "rogue child" in the sense it was part of the Republic of China when the Nationalists fled there after losing the civil war, and the communists consider it to be part of their "rightful inheritance" as leaders of China. It's increasingly a moot point anyway, as China and Taiwan are now basically joined at the hip economically and neither side really wants to start a war as that would be bad for business. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 11:42:08 AM EDT
[#40]
Any sort of disruption and those machines are rendered defunct. They self sabotage just by the nature of the TLC and constant upkeep it requires to maintain it.
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Posted: 5/26/2024 11:42:29 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, to be fair, Taiwan literally is a rogue child.... If the state of Alaska declared its independence from the U.S. do you think that the government would just let that go? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The B2 can disable chip machines too. Yes, it's an Asian thing, PRC believes Taiwan is the rouge child that needs to come back into the fold... It's also a good rallying point for Xi. Other than the chip manufacturing, nobody really gives a shit about Taiwan, and nobody really wants to piss off China. Looking at how the US has (or hasn't) supplied them over the decades. Well, to be fair, Taiwan literally is a rogue child.... If the state of Alaska declared its independence from the U.S. do you think that the government would just let that go? Except, the U.S. and Alaska didn’t have a long running civil war with each other. And then after WW2, when the Alaskans were defeated by the mainland US, in arguably a cheap shot after declaring a truce for the war against Japan… they evacuated to Alaska. Kinda ignoring a lot of history there. Considering both countries are arguably about the same age. It would be like North Korea claiming South Korea is a rogue child. Or hey, Russia claiming Ukraine is a rogue child. Or actually more like Russia is claiming Poland as rogue child. There are other examples. But you know, keep on believing China has an actual claim there. The overall likelihood of China going to war over Taiwan is heading more towards 0. Unless something extremely bad happens in China, it won’t happen. It’s a MAD situation. Everyone’s economy gets destroyed. 500 million Chinese starve or freeze to death in 6 months. And China never recovers from it. They will continue to send immigrants over there, do psyops in Taiwan. And they’ll win in the voting booth in the next 50 years. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 11:46:35 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, to be fair, Taiwan literally is a rogue child.... If the state of Alaska declared its independence from the U.S. do you think that the government would just let that go? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The B2 can disable chip machines too. Yes, it's an Asian thing, PRC believes Taiwan is the rouge child that needs to come back into the fold... It's also a good rallying point for Xi. Other than the chip manufacturing, nobody really gives a shit about Taiwan, and nobody really wants to piss off China. Looking at how the US has (or hasn't) supplied them over the decades. Well, to be fair, Taiwan literally is a rogue child.... If the state of Alaska declared its independence from the U.S. do you think that the government would just let that go? 
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Posted: 5/26/2024 11:49:54 AM EDT
[#43]
WW3 ends up being the fight to have Skynet AI first. If we can't have it no one can.
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Posted: 5/26/2024 11:50:15 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not quite. Taiwan didn't become part of modern China until after the Japanese were kicked out at the end of World War II, and it has never been part of Communist China. It's a "rogue child" in the sense it was part of the Republic of China when the Nationalists fled there after losing the civil war, and the communists consider it to be part of their "rightful inheritance" as leaders of China. It's increasingly a moot point anyway, as China and Taiwan are now basically joined at the hip economically and neither side really wants to start a war as that would be bad for business. Right. Taiwan was originally inhabited by Austronesian indigenous people, not Han Chinese. In the 17th century, it saw Dutch and Spanish colonization before the Qing Dynasty annexed it. Then, Japan controlled Taiwan from 1895 to 1945, shaping its development separately from China. After World War II, the Republic of China took over, and after the Chinese Civil War, the ROC government moved to Taiwan. So there are numerous other nations and ethnic groups that have a right to claim Taiwan much more so than the CCP fucks. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 11:50:48 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Except, the U.S. and Alaska didn’t have a long running civil war with each other. And then after WW2, when the Alaskans were defeated by the mainland US, in arguably a cheap shot after declaring a truce for the war against Japan… they evacuated to Alaska. Kinda ignoring a lot of history there. Considering both countries are arguably about the same age. It would be like North Korea claiming South Korea is a rogue child. Or hey, Russia claiming Ukraine is a rogue child. Or actually more like Russia is claiming Poland as rogue child. There are other examples. But you know, keep on believing China has an actual claim there. Ummm where did I say China, "has an actual claim"? What does that even mean? How does a government establish a "claim" on any piece of land? |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 11:53:02 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right. Taiwan was originally inhabited by Austronesian indigenous people, not Han Chinese. In the 17th century, it saw Dutch and Spanish colonization before the Qing Dynasty annexed it. Then, Japan controlled Taiwan from 1895 to 1945, shaping its development separately from China. After World War II, the Republic of China took over, and after the Chinese Civil War, the ROC government moved to Taiwan. So there are numerous other nations and ethnic groups that have a right to claim Taiwan much more so than the CCP fucks. Okay? And before European settlers colonized North America, there were already indigenous people living here. So by your logic, I, as a descendant of those indigenous people, have a higher claim to your house than you do? Is that where you're going with this? |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 11:59:28 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ummm where did I say China, "has an actual claim"? What does that even mean? How does a government establish a "claim" on any piece of land? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Except, the U.S. and Alaska didn’t have a long running civil war with each other. And then after WW2, when the Alaskans were defeated by the mainland US, in arguably a cheap shot after declaring a truce for the war against Japan… they evacuated to Alaska. Kinda ignoring a lot of history there. Considering both countries are arguably about the same age. It would be like North Korea claiming South Korea is a rogue child. Or hey, Russia claiming Ukraine is a rogue child. Or actually more like Russia is claiming Poland as rogue child. There are other examples. But you know, keep on believing China has an actual claim there. Ummm where did I say China, "has an actual claim"? What does that even mean? How does a government establish a "claim" on any piece of land? By saying that Taiwan is a rogue child, means that the PRC is the “adult”. That’s… how the word child works. That means there is a parent. And the parent has a claim over their children. As, this is literally the wording Xi has used. As for your later question, I’d suggest renting or buying the book “International Law” by Jan Klabbers. It has several chapters on how acquisition of sovereignty works internationally. In this, particular case, it was decided by The Hague in 1907. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 12:01:42 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ummm where did I say China, "has an actual claim"? What does that even mean? How does a government establish a "claim" on any piece of land? 2 Ways in my experience. Politicians pay lawyers to whine about it to practically anyone who will listen. Or you move your armed forces onto it and shoot anyone who says you don't have a claim. Mainland China has been pursuing variations of both strategies on and off with Taiwan for quite some time now. Personally if I was in charge of Taiwan I would be pursuing an extremely aggressive program of developing and deploying relatively cheap man portable rocket launcher systems and mortars. Same basic idea as the old Liberator 45 caliber pistol. But with something that can blow up a tank or low flying aircraft. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 12:03:27 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Let’s say all the chip-making capabilities are destroyed - would CCP still want the strategic location..? Ever since 1949. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 12:11:17 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Okay? And before European settlers colonized North America, there were already indigenous people living here. So by your logic, I, as a descendant of those indigenous people, have a higher claim to your house than you do? Is that where you're going with this? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Right. Taiwan was originally inhabited by Austronesian indigenous people, not Han Chinese. In the 17th century, it saw Dutch and Spanish colonization before the Qing Dynasty annexed it. Then, Japan controlled Taiwan from 1895 to 1945, shaping its development separately from China. After World War II, the Republic of China took over, and after the Chinese Civil War, the ROC government moved to Taiwan. So there are numerous other nations and ethnic groups that have a right to claim Taiwan much more so than the CCP fucks. Okay? And before European settlers colonized North America, there were already indigenous people living here. So by your logic, I, as a descendant of those indigenous people, have a higher claim to your house than you do? Is that where you're going with this?  The CCP is trying to claim an island as theirs that they've never governed or administrated. |
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