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Posted: 5/16/2024 5:09:33 PM EDT
I always see them for sale in pretty much new condition and curious as to why so many are for sale. What did you replace it with and what are some things you didn't like about it?
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Vortex Razor 1-6 Gen II E
The extra 2x up top wasn’t worth the 1x performance trade off compared to razor 1-6 for me. |
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They also released the same thing with a new reticle that is better.
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Honestly, I sold mine after discovering it wasnt any better than my Burris XTR II
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similar situation - i bought an atacr 4-20 for my 7 rm tikka. it was just too heavy, and the rotating ocular makes quick zoom changes a tad slow. i used my buddy's 1-8 ATACR and did not like how it felt in transitions from 1x to whateverX
i replaced the ATACR with a tenmile and have been much happier. i went for a TR25 during this red dot -> LPVO transition. lets see what happens after i sell the TR25, switch back to dots on everything, then want an LPVO again |
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I actually kept my ATACR 1 - 8. My multiple Vortex scopes have a total of about 5-ish trips back to Vortex, including the vaunted and revered Razor 1 - 6 ( and a couple cases of total replacement after light use). Always fixed or replaced with only the awful hassle of removing, sending in, re-installing and re-zeroing.
I have never had a NF fail or need any warranty support in 20+ years including some hard use and that is good enough for me. Heavier? yes. Latest bells and whistles, usually no. Absolute best overall specs, probably not. However, I wanted a very very tough, robust and overbuilt scope so I kept the ATACR. Vortex is fine, still use them. My guess is that people have buyer’s remorse because of the high price. |
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Quoted: My guess is that people have buyer’s remorse because of the high price. View Quote ^^^also this for me in addition to the other reasons i gave. i was able to sell the ATACR and buy both a tenmile 3-18 mil (when they were on sale for 950) and a tr25. i don't use my weapons in any sort of professional capacity, and trijicon durability seems to be "good enough" (not just acog's, rokslide has some independent testing of trijicon scopes that hold up as well as nightforce, SWFA, and Maven) for hunting and self defense/class purposes |
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Xtr3 is better in many aspects and came out of the same factory
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Quoted: I always see them for sale in pretty much new condition and curious as to why so many are for sale. What did you replace it with and what are some things you didn't like about it? View Quote Nightforce NX8. I prefer it for the form factor and optical properties. |
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I traded my AR15 that my ATACR was on as I have a few AR15 already. I still have an ATACR on my other AR15 which if worth it for me.
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To be honest it's huge, it's sexy, it's huge and heavy and as RustedAce has stated the NX8 and Acog/RMR combo are the finest two optics for the AR 556 platform out.
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Do you need or want an optic with clear glass, durability, and .1 mil adjustments?
If yes, Atacr is your jam. If no, it’s not. |
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Does the ATACR have the same warping/lensing problems that NX8 does at 1x?
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I headed up a 'Law Enforcement Designated Marksman' program at my agency a while back. I took about 20 standard M4 style patrol rifles, installed a nice rail, a Surefire weapon light and an LPVO on each one, and then put on a class on how to utilize the rifle/optic as an enhanced package for the uniform patrol officer. I started with Razors, as that's what I believed was best suited for this project, but I bought a couple of ATACRs as well, just to try out. Nobody wants the ATACRs. Everybody who tries them out prefers the Razor, as the 1x is better and the reticle is less cluttered. I think if you were doing real DMR stuff, the ATACR might be better. But for a uniform patrol scenario, where you are more likely to use the rifle/optic on 1x, I think the Razor is better.
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Quoted: I have both and no issues exist with either. View Quote Some videos out there are able to demonstrate the fish eye/warping effect of the NF LPVOs. It’s honestly hard to tell in the video for me, and I have never noticed while actually shooting my buddy’s ATACR at 1x. I think some people are much more sensitive to this than others |
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Quoted: Does the ATACR have the same warping/lensing problems that NX8 does at 1x? View Quote Having used both and owning a couple of 1-8 ATACR’s, I can’t say I’ve experienced this with either the NX8 1-8 or the ATACR 1-8. I’ve owned Kahles, Steiner, and Vortex LPVO’s. All have been sold and will slowly be replaced by the 1-8 ATACR with FC-DMx reticle across the board. Hands down the best LPVO and reticle I’ve used thus far for me. |
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Quoted: Having used both and owning a couple of 1-8 ATACR’s, I can’t say I’ve experienced this with either the NX8 1-8 or the ATACR 1-8. I’ve owned Kahles, Steiner, and Vortex LPVO’s. All have been sold and will slowly be replaced by the 1-8 ATACR with FC-DMx reticle across the board. Hands down the best LPVO and reticle I’ve used thus far for me. View Quote Concur. I've owned Steiner, Leupold, multiple Vortex Razors and now multiple NX8's and ATACRs. I'm pretty much committed to the ATACR DM or DMx reticle as the best LPVO for me. |
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Quoted: I headed up a 'Law Enforcement Designated Marksman' program at my agency a while back. I took about 20 standard M4 style patrol rifles, installed a nice rail, a Surefire weapon light and an LPVO on each one, and then put on a class on how to utilize the rifle/optic as an enhanced package for the uniform patrol officer. I started with Razors, as that's what I believed was best suited for this project, but I bought a couple of ATACRs as well, just to try out. Nobody wants the ATACRs. Everybody who tries them out prefers the Razor, as the 1x is better and the reticle is less cluttered. I think if you were doing real DMR stuff, the ATACR might be better. But for a uniform patrol scenario, where you are more likely to use the rifle/optic on 1x, I think the Razor is better. View Quote My buddy has this NF and I agree with your assessment. The 1X on the Razor is much better. |
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People sell tons of ACOGs, EOtechs, and other high end scopes that don't have a real problem.
Typically I think some dude buys it, realizes it doesn't replace actually learning to use a gun, and then sells it because it's hard to have that much money sitting in the safe doing nothing. The other end of the spectrum is restless rifle syndrome, a dude may actually shoot enough to need a high end optic but is a degenerate horse trader that can't hold on to something for more than a month. |
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Quoted: People sell tons of ACOGs, EOtechs, and other high end scopes that don't have a real problem. Typically I think some dude buys it, realizes it doesn't replace actually learning to use a gun, and then sells it because it's hard to have that much money sitting in the safe doing nothing. The other end of the spectrum is restless rifle syndrome, a dude may actually shoot enough to need a high end optic but is a degenerate horse trader that can't hold on to something for more than a month. View Quote Good points and I agree, I’d also like to add that I’ve seen sellers dumping their Nightforce s for Razors for the simple fact they don’t take the time to set them up correctly or they perceive a non existing issue because they read something on the internet or some other gun range “expert” tell them about the bad eye box or some other issue. I’ve seen that first hand and picked up a NX-8 that way. The guy took the “expert” advice from another guy who was clue as on the proper setup. I bet most all sellers just bought the flavor of the month mounts, mounted it and never gave another thought that mount height and position play a huge role in proper setup. I used to have three Razors and they’re all gone now in favor of NX-8’s which fill my need perfectly, their smaller and lighter. I’ve wanted to get a ATACR but I fear I’ll like it to much and than start the slow transition to those. |
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Quoted: My buddy has this NF and I agree with your assessment. The 1X on the Razor is much better. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I headed up a 'Law Enforcement Designated Marksman' program at my agency a while back. I took about 20 standard M4 style patrol rifles, installed a nice rail, a Surefire weapon light and an LPVO on each one, and then put on a class on how to utilize the rifle/optic as an enhanced package for the uniform patrol officer. I started with Razors, as that's what I believed was best suited for this project, but I bought a couple of ATACRs as well, just to try out. Nobody wants the ATACRs. Everybody who tries them out prefers the Razor, as the 1x is better and the reticle is less cluttered. I think if you were doing real DMR stuff, the ATACR might be better. But for a uniform patrol scenario, where you are more likely to use the rifle/optic on 1x, I think the Razor is better. My buddy has this NF and I agree with your assessment. The 1X on the Razor is much better. I stole this description from someone else and thought it described the difference between the Razor and ATACR best: the Razor is a really good 1x optic that you can dial up to a perfectly adequate 6x optic, whereas the ATACR is a really good 8x optic that can be dialed down to an adequate 1x optic. Choose the one that best fits your use-case. |
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Quoted: I stole this description from someone else and thought it described the difference between the Razor and ATACR best: the Razor is a really good 1x optic that you can dial up to a perfectly adequate 6x optic, whereas the ATACR is a really good 8x optic that can be dialed down to an adequate 1x optic. Choose the one that best fits your use-case. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I headed up a 'Law Enforcement Designated Marksman' program at my agency a while back. I took about 20 standard M4 style patrol rifles, installed a nice rail, a Surefire weapon light and an LPVO on each one, and then put on a class on how to utilize the rifle/optic as an enhanced package for the uniform patrol officer. I started with Razors, as that's what I believed was best suited for this project, but I bought a couple of ATACRs as well, just to try out. Nobody wants the ATACRs. Everybody who tries them out prefers the Razor, as the 1x is better and the reticle is less cluttered. I think if you were doing real DMR stuff, the ATACR might be better. But for a uniform patrol scenario, where you are more likely to use the rifle/optic on 1x, I think the Razor is better. My buddy has this NF and I agree with your assessment. The 1X on the Razor is much better. I stole this description from someone else and thought it described the difference between the Razor and ATACR best: the Razor is a really good 1x optic that you can dial up to a perfectly adequate 6x optic, whereas the ATACR is a really good 8x optic that can be dialed down to an adequate 1x optic. Choose the one that best fits your use-case. The Razor to me is just a big red dot with magnification, The Nightforce has a far superior reticle. |
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Quoted: The Razor to me is just a big red dot with magnification, The Nightforce has a far superior reticle. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: The Razor to me is just a big red dot with magnification, The Nightforce has a far superior reticle. For long range, the NF reticle is much nicer with all those wind holds. Quoted: I stole this description from someone else and thought it described the difference between the Razor and ATACR best: the Razor is a really good 1x optic that you can dial up to a perfectly adequate 6x optic, whereas the ATACR is a really good 8x optic that can be dialed down to an adequate 1x optic. Choose the one that best fits your use-case. This makes sense to me. |
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Quoted: For long range, the NF reticle is much nicer with all those wind holds. This makes sense to me. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: The Razor to me is just a big red dot with magnification, The Nightforce has a far superior reticle. For long range, the NF reticle is much nicer with all those wind holds. Quoted: I stole this description from someone else and thought it described the difference between the Razor and ATACR best: the Razor is a really good 1x optic that you can dial up to a perfectly adequate 6x optic, whereas the ATACR is a really good 8x optic that can be dialed down to an adequate 1x optic. Choose the one that best fits your use-case. This makes sense to me. I think the DMx is faster than the dot of the razor, but it also allows you to range and gives you allot more precsion, like I said earlier the Razor is nothing more than a red dot with magnification. |
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Quoted: I think the DMx is faster than the dot of the razor, View Quote Is it because you like using the T bars to center the reticle on a target? I know some guys like those types of reticles for that reason. For me, since I'm looking at the exact spot on a target for a presentation or transition, I just want a single dot with small lines around it to minimize the visual obstruction. |
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Quoted: Pretty sure that's not true. LOW doesn't make the XTR3 it's made in the Philippines and the Pro is made in the US. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Xtr3 is better in many aspects and came out of the same factory Pretty sure that's not true. LOW doesn't make the XTR3 it's made in the Philippines and the Pro is made in the US. Low did make the XTR ll's in the 1-8x24 /34mm, but just those two were Japan made. I had both of them, the FFP and the SFP models. The were pretty nice but not better IMHO. |
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Quoted: Is it because you like using the T bars to center the reticle on a target? I know some guys like those types of reticles for that reason. For me, since I'm looking at the exact spot on a target for a presentation or transition, I just want a single dot with small lines around it to minimize the visual obstruction. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I think the DMx is faster than the dot of the razor, Is it because you like using the T bars to center the reticle on a target? I know some guys like those types of reticles for that reason. For me, since I'm looking at the exact spot on a target for a presentation or transition, I just want a single dot with small lines around it to minimize the visual obstruction. I like this, Attached File Over these, JM1 Attached File Mil, Attached File At least the Razor 3 figured out the Razor 2’s are just a red dot, Attached File |
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Quoted: Some videos out there are able to demonstrate the fish eye/warping effect of the NF LPVOs. It’s honestly hard to tell in the video for me, and I have never noticed while actually shooting my buddy’s ATACR at 1x. I think some people are much more sensitive to this than others View Quote That is what DLO (Ilya Koshkin) was saying. Some people are sensitive to the the image through the NX8, and after a while it can get tiring and causes eye strain. |
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Quoted: My buddy has this NF and I agree with your assessment. The 1X on the Razor is much better. View Quote On a shot timer or to your eye? The vortex scopes look great when you hold them steady and stare through them. The optic body, as perceived by your eye, is very minimal. When actually using them, on a shot timer, both eyes open at 1X, that optic body really isn’t visible on the nightforce optics and it becomes irrelevant. I’ve had no problem adjusting the diopter on my nightforces to get a good flat image. The benefits of the nightforce reticle become obvious at distance, as does the glass, so I chose nightforce. Specifically the ATACR due to the .1 mrad adjustments. |
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Quoted: On a shot timer or to your eye? The vortex scopes look great when you hold them steady and stare through them. The optic body, as perceived by your eye, is very minimal. When actually using them, on a shot timer, both eyes open at 1X, that optic body really isn’t visible on the nightforce optics and it becomes irrelevant. I’ve had no problem adjusting the diopter on my nightforces to get a good flat image. The benefits of the nightforce reticle become obvious at distance, as does the glass, so I chose nightforce. Specifically the ATACR due to the .1 mrad adjustments. View Quote To my eye, even after dialing in the diopter, the 1X on the Razor is flatter with a smaller bezel. |
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To my eyes, my Razor 1-6 and Razor 1-10 look way better on 1x than my NX8. On the clock, I have found that it makes no difference.
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Some of the logic I see here reminds me of the following sign in a Motel 6 room I stayed at in the 90’s.
“With your eyes closed, it’s just like the Hilton.” Just because the scopes were the same on the clock in one specific set of conditions, does not make them equivalent. |
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Just because I think the 1x is better on the Razor, doesn't mean the NX8 doesn't have other redeeming qualities such as it's physical size and weight.
Ultimately, I want performance from my scopes, so performance on the clock is something that interests me. |
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Quoted: To my eye, even after dialing in the diopter, the 1X on the Razor is flatter with a smaller bezel. View Quote As it should be. It’s a SFP optic. The bezel thing looks great when I close one eye and stare at a wall, but in actual use, it’s literally not noticeable. Hence the shot timer comment, which some may equate to being at the Hilton or some dumb shit, but hey, I did stay at a Holiday Inn so…. The build quality, QC, and FFP superior reticle of the ATACR is why I kept it. The Vortex options are great, but be prepared to take advantage of their warranty. I’ve had the Razor 2, 3, NX8 and ATACR. The ATACR is the best blend of low power and high power performance *for me*. The fact that it’s basically a tank helps too. |
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Quoted: Does the ATACR have the same warping/lensing problems that NX8 does at 1x? View Quote nx8 at 1x with a cellphone camera. The tree doesnt really get warped Attached File |
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The distortion of the nx8 is much improved on the more recent ones compared to the earlier releases. And adjusting the diopter further improves it for me. These things are very individual specific. I am in my mid-40s and notice that as my eyes change, certain optical properties have become more noticeable. I have 20/20 vision, but recently developed astigmatism. It has become more difficult to set my diopter just right. Overall I agree that optically I feel that my atacr 1-8 is superior.
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I never owned the ATACR, but my complaint with it would likely be the same as the NX8, plus it's heavier.
I loved my two NX8s that I owned. It's the one optic that I miss. I sold the first in order to get the second with the newer DMX reticle with windage tree. I sold that one because the mil tree was too cluttered at range, and I would lose the target and have to recount the mil grid for each shot. That's why I'm in the minority that prefer a BDC, even though I know that it won't match up perfectly. If they made a BDC NX8, I would absolutely buy at least one right meow. I also like the PLXC, but the optical clarity is not as good as the YouTubers preach. Having to adjust the diopter between 1x and 8x is annoying, plus the illumination sucks. It makes me miss the NX8. So for me, the Razor 3 with BDC is my favorite LPVO, period. It has everything except for a nice integrated zoom throw lever. Wish that it was lighter though. My close second favorite is the Leupold MK6, I can live with the flickery reticle and stiff zooming. |
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Quoted: My buddy has this NF and I agree with your assessment. The 1X on the Razor is much better. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I headed up a 'Law Enforcement Designated Marksman' program at my agency a while back. I took about 20 standard M4 style patrol rifles, installed a nice rail, a Surefire weapon light and an LPVO on each one, and then put on a class on how to utilize the rifle/optic as an enhanced package for the uniform patrol officer. I started with Razors, as that's what I believed was best suited for this project, but I bought a couple of ATACRs as well, just to try out. Nobody wants the ATACRs. Everybody who tries them out prefers the Razor, as the 1x is better and the reticle is less cluttered. I think if you were doing real DMR stuff, the ATACR might be better. But for a uniform patrol scenario, where you are more likely to use the rifle/optic on 1x, I think the Razor is better. My buddy has this NF and I agree with your assessment. The 1X on the Razor is much better. The Razor is about the best 1X LPVO game in town. The 25 Accupoint was up there as competition, and only recently are things like the PLXC coming up against it (or so I hear, I’ve not owned a PLXC). |
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Quoted: I never owned the ATACR, but my complaint with it would likely be the same as the NX8, plus it's heavier. I loved my two NX8s that I owned. It's the one optic that I miss. I sold the first in order to get the second with the newer DMX reticle with windage tree. I sold that one because the mil tree was too cluttered at range, and I would lose the target and have to recount the mil grid for each shot. That's why I'm in the minority that prefer a BDC, even though I know that it won't match up perfectly. If they made a BDC NX8, I would absolutely buy at least one right meow. I also like the PLXC, but the optical clarity is not as good as the YouTubers preach. Having to adjust the diopter between 1x and 8x is annoying, plus the illumination sucks. It makes me miss the NX8. So for me, the Razor 3 with BDC is my favorite LPVO, period. It has everything except for a nice integrated zoom throw lever. Wish that it was lighter though. My close second favorite is the Leupold MK6, I can live with the flickery reticle and stiff zooming. View Quote Whether you need to adjust the diopter is pretty individual though. Usually, and I’m speaking in generalities here, if it’s set right it’s fine throughout. Usually it’s not set right, or at all. Or maybe one’s eyes just don’t jive with the optics of the..optic, as well as others. Since my surgery I see distant objects far better but my diopter must be set so far off the norm I’ve long since written off having a crisp LPVO image throughout distance and magnification in general. Then someone else uses my rifle and has to crank it all the way back down, and it performs as advertised for them. It is what it is. |
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Quoted: Whether you need to adjust the diopter is pretty individual though. Usually, and I’m speaking in generalities here, if it’s set right it’s fine throughout. Usually it’s not set right, or at all. Or maybe one’s eyes just don’t jive with the optics of the..optic, as well as others. Since my surgery I see distant objects far better but my diopter must be set so far off the norm I’ve long since written off having a crisp LPVO image throughout distance and magnification in general. Then someone else uses my rifle and has to crank it all the way back down, and it performs as advertised for them. It is what it is. View Quote Some optics, like vcog 1-6 just have ugly diopter shift. |
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Quoted: Some optics, like vcog 1-6 just have ugly diopter shift. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Whether you need to adjust the diopter is pretty individual though. Usually, and I’m speaking in generalities here, if it’s set right it’s fine throughout. Usually it’s not set right, or at all. Or maybe one’s eyes just don’t jive with the optics of the..optic, as well as others. Since my surgery I see distant objects far better but my diopter must be set so far off the norm I’ve long since written off having a crisp LPVO image throughout distance and magnification in general. Then someone else uses my rifle and has to crank it all the way back down, and it performs as advertised for them. It is what it is. Some optics, like vcog 1-6 just have ugly diopter shift. It’s funny you mention that, that example came to mind as I was writing that. The example I had actually worked fine for me lol but if it sucks, and my eyes suck, maybe they just canceled out like when two negatives make a positive |
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I shoot weekly with a focus on running practical drills in the 0-350 yard range. Like all LPVOs, the Atacr sacrifices some things in order to place emphasis on others. I just found it’s emphasis was not aligned with the type of shooting I do. 1x is priority for me on an LPVO, and At 350 I can just hold with a simple SFP reticle. The Atacrs 1x was fine, but it that’s not its strong suit. And the FFP reticle was unnecessary. I’ll admit I liked the idea of its durability, but I have aimpoints ready to go for that.
I purchased a 1-6 razor to replace the Atacr for the time being, and i’m certain I made the right decision for what I do. I don’t cut corners for cost, but If I didn’t know any better there is no way I’d guess the razor costs 1k dollars and the Atacr is a 2500 optic. So saving 1500$ when I don’t need to spend it, is always a plus as well. |
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I would like to know how you guys are putting the top two dots above the center dot to use on the fc-dmx reticle.
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