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Posted: 8/9/2013 8:22:55 AM EDT
Well it is time for another project, some of you may have seen my M249 project from last year posted in the FN section of the armory, I am bored again so I will be spending a lot of time, and money most likely, on a scratch built M203. I will be building the receiver from mil-spec plans with some minor modifications as a title 1 weapon, the sending off the registration as a DD prior to full assembly and testing. It should be an interesting build. I am, as always, open to ideas, suggestions, great stories and of course sources of parts. I will answer the first question I always get in advance. Why build an M203 when I can just file the paperwork, send a check and order one from LMT or one of the other fine Gov't contract suppliers. Because I am about "the build"! I have time, tools and "I think" the know how to pull this off. Posting of progress and pictures to come. Wish me luck.
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Sounds likea awesome project. Good luck. Sarco has some parts, and there are other places if you get stuck on a part, let me know. I built my own M79, and it was a to get cool project to get into. I also build ARs from 80% which keeps me busy. My next project is a 45 cal lower that uses grease gun mags. Looking forward to the photos, GROG
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Thanks, looks like it will be a scavenger hunt for most parts...others I will just make if I can't find them. Too bad I missed the boat on a 0% forging and parts kit a few years back. Oh well, I'm sure it will be a fun ride either way. BTW I love your web site, once my piece is up and running I will look forward to your reloading CD's, they get lots of great reviews.
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I remember that M249 thread. That was awesome. You should hang out in the WI HTF forum and bring that M249 out to one of our shoots. I'd love to try that out.
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Update: All the parts are ordered and on the way baring any issues I should have the basic 3D Cad drawings done by end of next week. I am going to farm out the bulk work, like an 80% receiver, to my CNC guy. After looking at how much material there was to remove for a billet receiver I decided that would be the best course to take unless I find a 0% forging out there. I may have him make more than one "paper weight" just in case I screw up on the internals....which has been known to happen from time to time.
Thanks for the invite the WI group, send me a link. I normally attend the Class 3 shoots at my local club near Racine WI(Club Bylaws prevent me from posting it's name on web) I have missed the last one due to a recent back surgery and the replacement cost of ammo is a bit high. I will wait till the "Panic" settles down. |
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An 80% M203 receiver? Depending on price I'd be down for at least two of these, I've always wanted to do this as well but my machining access is very limited. However if the harder cuts were part of the 80% process, the bolt face for example, and the longer cuts so that all that's left could be finished on a mini-mill would be perfect!! Let me know how your progress goes, and good luck!!
Will |
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I plan on having at least 2 done if the CNC works out to be cost effective. One for my project...and one to send to ATF for inspection and designation as firearm or non-firearm. I have also just picked up a 0% M203 forging to play with in the shop, once my back mends up enough to get out of the house.
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Quoted:
I plan on having at least 2 done if the CNC works out to be cost effective. One for my project...and one to send to ATF for inspection and designation as firearm or non-firearm. I have also just picked up a 0% M203 forging to play with in the shop, once my back mends up enough to get out of the house. View Quote Where did you get the 0%? I've looked all over for one of those with no luck. I hope you get an answer quick from ATF, I'm very interested in how this progresses. Also are you sending in a 80% to ATF? Will |
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I got the 0% forging off of Gunbroker.com, they come up from time to time. I just grabbed it on a "Buy It Now" for $195 shipped. I know, expensive paper weight until I am done machining it. Yes, one of the finished 80% CNC receivers will be sent to ATF for a determination. There may be some interest depending on the price point...if they can be sold without FFL.
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Quoted:
I got the 0% forging off of Gunbroker.com, they come up from time to time. I just grabbed it on a "Buy It Now" for $195 shipped. I know, expensive paper weight until I am done machining it. Yes, one of the finished 80% CNC receivers will be sent to ATF for a determination. There may be some interest depending on the price point...if they can be sold without FFL. View Quote No way!! i've been looking for ages and haven't come across anything, perhaps its because you snagged it before I saw it Anyway I hope you hear good, no great news from the ATF on the 80%. I'm definitely on board for this, with member braceman doing custom engraving, perhaps I too one day can have a Vietnam era AAI M203!! Will |
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I am an auction stalker when I am on the hunt for parts. I check all the big ones at least 5 times a day for new items. It had one bid on it but the BIN was only $30 more than the start bid so I jumped on it. I figure the whole deal is going to be about 2K anyway, with the ammo reload parts I bought, so what's another $30.
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I could reverse engineer something from a 40mm rifled to a 37mm smooth bore. They would be very expensive to CNC from a solid piece but anything is possible. Maybe start with an aluminum tube T6 6061 close to 37mm ID and 2.5 OD or what ever the rail takes and go from there. I know Mr.40mm used to make them but he is retired and I don't know if he handed the business on to any one.
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Randy Shivak already makes 37mm M203 barrels. $300 last time I checked. GROG
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Ok, a helpful brother in arms measured his receivers and the "10.25" is correct. The hole is approximately 0.300 from the face of the receiver, which is where I expected it would be so the print has a bad spec somewhere. If anyone else has the real deal, can you measure the overall length? Accuracy to "0.000" would be best. "11.690 +/- .030" is listed on all the prints I can find, but that does not add up with what we have found so far. Thanks in advance.
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Randy Shivak already makes 37mm M203 barrels. $300 last time I checked. GROG Isn't randy retired ? I am retired too... We ain't dead yet... The OAL is 11.700 measured from the very rear of the receiver (flat rear portion) to the very front. It is 10.500 measured from the flat in front of where it goes into your AR nut (flat portion) to the front. GROG |
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Thanks for the measurements Grog, I looks like the numbers are right on the drawing then...just the reference point is drawn incorrectly. It is over 40 year old drawing, LOL it is bound to have a few errors. Normally these are noted in the QA but I don't have a copy. I will keep an eye out for one of Randy's barrels to come up on Gun Broker or I will just mill one myself while I am waiting for my tax stamp. Last one I sent for took 9 months.
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He, ive been following your m203 build and wanted to let you know if you need any 38 blanks or cases let me kno2. I have thousands of once fired that ive cleaned and sorted out the best of
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Thanks, I do need 38 blanks with the M9 load. I can always use more cases too. Shoot me an email at [email protected] with some pictures and prices please.
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One thing to remember about this and other similar projects: the production will become significantly simpler in the coming years. The patents on laser sintering are set to expire in Feb 2014. Much like the patent expiration of 3d plastic printing heralded in an era of significantly cheaper 3d printers and a huge uptick in 3d printing tinkerers, so too will the sintering patent expiration open the door to extremely high resolution 3d printing technologies in the coming years.
This will likely take the better part of a decade for such developments to transpire, but in the mean time being able to model these weapons will be a critical piece of the equation. |
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LOL, can you imagine what a 40mm shot round would do to a poor turkey!
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That is really looking good.
Are you going to get Colt markings engraved when you are done with it? |
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Any body know the thread count for the front mounting screws? My plan shows a 3/8 insert but that is 40 years old. I think they are 1/4-20 now but I would like to be sure before I tap the hole.
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Any body know the thread count for the front mounting screws? My plan shows a 3/8 insert but that is 40 years old. I think they are 1/4-20 now but I would like to be sure before I tap the hole. View Quote I don't believe they've changed? We had Colt 203's that were from the 70's that we would outfit with the Knight's QD no problem. I've got a few screws but can't find my tpi, when I do I'll let ya know. William P.S. Looking good on the receiver, I can't wait for ATF's ruling on you 80%!! |
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Very good job there Bro. Nice machine too. Wish I had a mill that big... I'm stuck with a drill press and a lathe... GROG
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Thanks, it's just a Smithy Granite 13/24 combo mill-lathe, it gets the job done. I wish it had more table travel, it only has 7" on the cross slide and the mill head is 7" from the end so sometimes I have to do two set ups for one operation. Next shop I have with have a good knee mill for sure. I think by then I will be making guns and stuff for my living, I am about 7 years from retirement and it will be nice to work and have fun at he same time.
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Quoted:
Thanks, it's just a Smithy Granite 13/24 combo mill-lathe, it gets the job done. I wish it had more table travel, it only has 7" on the cross slide and the mill head is 7" from the end so sometimes I have to do two set ups for one operation. Next shop I have with have a good knee mill for sure. I think by then I will be making guns and stuff for my living, I am about 7 years from retirement and it will be nice to work and have fun at he same time. View Quote A little off topic, but is this what you have http://server2.smithy.com/iadmin/sites/default/files/pictures/products/granite1324.jpg I've always been interested in one of those combo setups. |
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Yes, but with a 220 volt engine and DRO's for upgrades. If I had to do again I would get two separate machines. The lathe head stock is too small on the bore through for bigger round stock but it's not bad...just a compromise between two machines so you run into limitations on larger projects. To be fair, I never thought I would be milling 12" runs or threading 1.5" tubes back when I first got it either.
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Noooo, don't stop with the pics!! This is the most exciting thread I've read in a long time, any idea what the 80% receiver will still have left to machine.
William |
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Well I was going to take a queue from what ATF has approved before in the AR15 80% and do everything but the fire control group machining. The 80% M203 could be finished with two or three set-ups but a few specialty bits would need to be purchased like extra-long reach end mills but nothing too crazy. The only real issue would be to ability to do the vertical set-up like seen in the last photos.
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That's badass man!! Yeah you can finish the receiver and just not install a barrel, or just install a 37mm barrel and say it's just a flare launcher. And soon as your Form 1 comes back approved you can install the 40mm barrel :)
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That is the plan. If anyone has a line on a 37mm barrel feel free to PM me. That is the one part I am having a hard time finding. All of the old sources like MR40mm(Randy Shivak) and Clyde Armory have dried up.
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