User Panel
Posted: 2/12/2010 1:00:46 PM EDT
To all retail customers:
On January 2010 American Tactical Imports Inc received official notification from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and explosives that the original barrel shroud (aka: fake suppressor) supplied with your GSG 5 SD model must be replaced. It has been determined that this shroud is regulated under the National Firearms Act. American Tactical will provide a replacement shroud at no charge for each GSG 5 SD model sold or currently in inventory. Consumers in possession of a GSG 5 SD model with the original shroud in place on the firearm are now in violation of the NFA. To avoid continued violation of the NFA, ATI asks that all persons in possession obtain a replacement shroud as soon as possible. We anticipate arrival of the new shrouds to begin by the middle of February 2010. IMPORTANT: THE ORIGINAL SD MODEL SHROUD MUST BE RETURNED ACOMPANIED BY THE FIREARM SERIAL NUMBER BEFORE A REPLACEMENT SHROUD IS ISSUED. THE DIAMETER OF THE SD SHROUD IS 1-9/16”. DO NOT RETURN THE SMALLER CARBINE SHROUD. WHAT TO DO: If possible return your old shroud to the dealer where purchased and show him this notice. The shroud will be returned to ATI along with a list of serial numbers from the guns that the shrouds were removed. ATI will send replacements to the dealer for pick up at your convenience; ATI will be sending replacements as fast as logistics allow. If your dealer is out of business or difficult to reach, or you purchased your gun used, from a consumer, return the shroud directly by US mail or UPS to American Tactical Imports Inc. 100 Airpark Drive Rochester, NY 14624. PLEASE TRY NOT TO CALL US. We will provide comprehensive information on our web site www.americantactical.us , and www.ar15.com or by e-mail to [email protected] REMEMBER, INCLUDE THE FIREARM SERIAL NUMBER WITH EACH SHROUD OR A REPLACEMENT WILL NOT BE ISSUED. This action IS NOT being instituted through any fault and is strictly due to NFA compliance. American Tactical will assume the responsibility to satisfy the requirements in an effort to minimize the impact on our customers and protect your investment. We at American Tactical Imports Inc. sincerely apologize for any inconvenience caused by this unfortunate situation. Sincerely, Anthony DiChario President C.E.O. retailcandoc.021210 |
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Good to know. Also good to know that it is not the standard carbines!
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How much more is the replacement going to weigh? Is the finish any better on the new one. Mine chips the paint if you look at it wrong. Will it look the same when installed on the rifle?
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OK, since this applies ONLY to the GSG5/SD does this mean that the standard GSG5-carbine is in the clear????
Or is the fate of the GSG5-carbine "yet to be determined"?????????? |
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Quoted:
How much more is the replacement going to weigh? Ditto on this. If it has to be a solid piece its going to weigh a ton! |
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And I am to be responsible to ship it back? I would like you to pick it up
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interesting, brings up a couple of questions, wasnt it passed before importation? and what reason do they give?
just interested, ill be keeping my original SD shroud as i'm in England |
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And I am to be responsible to ship it back? I would like you to pick it up You act like this is their fault instead of ATF stupidity. |
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just curious, what will the replacement shroud look like?
will it be the smaller version, or something completely different? garyz |
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And I am to be responsible to ship it back? I would like you to pick it up Keep it than, enjoy prison. I think ATI has been great with their customer service. Would be interesting to hear why the idiots at the ATF cleared it for import and then backtracked. |
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And I am to be responsible to ship it back? I would like you to pick it up Just call 202-927-8330 and they will send somebody out to collect it, just hide your dog first |
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isnt the carbine and the SD the same thing besides "girth"? i cant see why they would have changed the design without letting ATI know about it.....even thought they already changed the finish.
i am livid. not liking this at all. it's like everyone important wants to ban the GSG or something. i....i dunno.....makes me wanna sell the damn things for a M&P 15-22 and a Sig-522. |
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Does the fake can actually reduce the dB ? I know that "we must comply or else" but seriously, what is the reason behind this? Is it based on potential? Should we stop selling 2 liter colas and baby bottle nipples?
Isn't the end of the barrel even with the muzzle end of the "can"? Wes |
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Quoted:
interesting, brings up a couple of questions, wasnt it passed before importation? and what reason do they give? No joy..... I echo the above quote - What reason did they give for the can falling under NFA? |
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Im guessing because big brother said so......even though we have a RIGHT to know.....
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Quoted:
OK, since this applies ONLY to the GSG5/SD does this mean that the standard GSG5-carbine is in the clear???? Or is the fate of the GSG5-carbine "yet to be determined"?????????? From this bit here it reads to me that the carbine is clear for now. IMPORTANT: THE ORIGINAL SD MODEL SHROUD MUST BE RETURNED ACOMPANIED BY THE FIREARM SERIAL NUMBER BEFORE A REPLACEMENT SHROUD IS ISSUED. THE DIAMETER OF THE SD SHROUD IS 1-9/16”. DO NOT RETURN THE SMALLER CARBINE SHROUD. |
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I'm thinking they don't like it because if you were to drill/perforate/port the barrel it would have *some* effect on the Db level.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
OK, since this applies ONLY to the GSG5/SD does this mean that the standard GSG5-carbine is in the clear???? Or is the fate of the GSG5-carbine "yet to be determined"?????????? From this bit here it reads to me that the carbine is clear for now. IMPORTANT: THE ORIGINAL SD MODEL SHROUD MUST BE RETURNED ACOMPANIED BY THE FIREARM SERIAL NUMBER BEFORE A REPLACEMENT SHROUD IS ISSUED. THE DIAMETER OF THE SD SHROUD IS 1-9/16”. DO NOT RETURN THE SMALLER CARBINE SHROUD. Owning a GSG5-carbine, I would like to think that also but..... reading the links provided in the original thread on this subject Attention All GSG5 Carbine Owners!!!! when asked if the subject could be put to rest ATI responded... Quoted:
not yet and in response to Osprey's comment ATI responded... Quoted:
ATF has long held that fake "hollow" suppressors won't fly. Had the mfgr stayed with the early 'solid' fake cans there wouldn't be a problem.
A letter from Tech branch is coming soon. and you are? ATI and the ATF are looking into this particular situation. I will have info available soon although the FTB is no longer involved with this particular situation. the official information will be released by ATI once we are told to do so by the ATF but at this time there is no other statement we can make until ATF gives the go ahead while they figure out how to handle their mistake. Just hang out guys and we'll let you know what we can when we're able to, and in the mean time don't believe everything you read. so to me at least, the jury is still out on the issue of whether or not the standard carbine is effected by this as ATI has yet to state that it absolutely is not. |
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what a bunch of shi+. Doesn't the ATF have anything better to do than come after firearms owners who own guns that THE ATF APPROVED IN THE FIRST PLACE??
I reiterate...what a bunch of shi+ ka |
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This is what happens when do-gooders write letters to ATF asking for opinion rather than keeping their mouths shut.
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Quoted: This is what happens when do-gooders write letters to ATF asking for opinion rather than keeping their mouths shut. +1 |
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+2. i cant see why they would investigate this shit now other than someone saying some shit.
and HOW long am i gonna be without a can? well, i guess we have to ask when the replacement will be available first..... |
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OK, so this doesn't make a lot of sense. If we remove the NFA regulated device and ship it, aren't we in further violation? If this device has suddenly become an NFA regulated item, isn't it more adviseable to destroy the device vs. shipping it? If I ship an "illegal" device via the USPS, haven't I just committed a whole entire series of additional felonies? Where is the actual ATF ruling? Do we have any kind of drop-dead date for compliance? I can't just take a silencer and ship it anywhere I'd like, if this device is now considered by legal definition a silencer––what your asking us to do is illegal. We need a whole lot more information on this issue.
I should think you would ask customers to remove and destroy the device, then supply a new one vs. returning and trying to ship an illegal device. |
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^^HOLY SHIT. u r right.
now, we are screwed sideways!!! I will wait till I get a certified letter from the ATF that can accompany the "NFA Item" back to ATI. |
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Quoted:
This is what happens when do-gooders write letters to ATF asking for opinion rather than keeping their mouths shut. |
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Quoted: OK, so this doesn't make a lot of sense. If we remove the NFA regulated device and ship it, aren't we in further violation? If this device has suddenly become an NFA regulated item, isn't it more adviseable to destroy the device vs. shipping it? If I ship an "illegal" device via the USPS, haven't I just committed a whole entire series of additional felonies? Where is the actual ATF ruling? Do we have any kind of drop-dead date for compliance? I can't just take a silencer and ship it anywhere I'd like, if this device is now considered by legal definition a silencer––what your asking us to do is illegal. We need a whole lot more information on this issue. I should think you would ask customers to remove and destroy the device, then supply a new one vs. returning and trying to ship an illegal device. The last time the ATF reversed their ruling on something I owned, making it NFA (Akins Accelerator stock for a 10/22), I had to fill out an affidavit and mail the spring and signed affidavit to ATF directly. At least this time you're not out a bunch of money. Focking ATF turned my $1000 stock in to a $20 paperweight with the stroke of their damn pen. |
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Quoted:
OK, so this doesn't make a lot of sense. If we remove the NFA regulated device and ship it, aren't we in further violation? If this device has suddenly become an NFA regulated item, isn't it more adviseable to destroy the device vs. shipping it? If I ship an "illegal" device via the USPS, haven't I just committed a whole entire series of additional felonies? Where is the actual ATF ruling? Do we have any kind of drop-dead date for compliance? I can't just take a silencer and ship it anywhere I'd like, if this device is now considered by legal definition a silencer––what your asking us to do is illegal. We need a whole lot more information on this issue. I should think you would ask customers to remove and destroy the device, then supply a new one vs. returning and trying to ship an illegal device. If the fake can is sent in through the shop that it was bought through; would that take care of the issue of violating the NFA laws? This might be a way around a felony. |
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If the shop the weapon was purchased from is also a dealer that can legally sell silencers and other NFA items that would be a step in the right direction. In Iowa, I am not allowed to own a silencer unless I'm an approved LE or Mil user with the appropriate paperwork from the agency I work for. This still doesn't get around the fact that I don't have the appropriate ATF paperwork and am now magically in possession of a device that is banned in my state and there are maybe 1 or 2 FFLs in the whole state that deal with NFA devices.
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Oh my god I can't take it anymore. You guys have me LMAO! I have watched this thread for the last two or three days and some of the replies are more enertaining than paying to go to the Improv. The sheer panic and paranoia is just too much. Please Please keep it up! "oh my god I am in possession of a NFA weapon" "oh my god my state isn't an NFA state" "oh my god i'm a felon if I mail it" Are you SERIOUS???? I mean I assume most folks here are adults. Are you honestly siting in your house in sheer panic thinking the ATF is going to come knocking at your door? I should forward this to Ken Houchens, he would pee his pants laughing. The NFA makes rulings every day on various stuff and most people never ever hear about it unless you read the newsletters or keep up with such stuff thru SAR or the NFATCA. Chris, thank you for posting the letter from Mr. DiChario and making it very EASY for those that actually read the letter. I already sent mine off. Seriously folks, do you honestly think that the President of ATI would send out a letter recalling the barrel shrouds if they hadn't already coordinated a soulution with the NFA Branch to rectify the problem? Shroud + Serial number = accountability. Don't be the guy that thinks "i'll just destroy, mine, throw it in a pond, hide it for a collectors item, etc" as at somepoint the ATF down the road will want to know why XXXX SD models were sold and only XXXX shrouds were returned. Don't be the guy bucking the system then you will piss off the ATF. If Ford, Chevy, Toyota, who ever, recalls your car because the brakes dont work and it can kill you do you not trust them and continue to drive your car until the NTSB sends you a letter or do you have your car fixed so you don't get killed? Please, its a simple easy process. No need for paranoia though if you think I am full of s***t thats OK by me. PLEASE keep posting some of this stuff, I'm rolling here LMAO!!!!!
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Quoted:
Oh my god I can't take it anymore. You guys have me LMAO! I have watched this thread for the last two or three days and some of the replies are more enertaining than paying to go to the Improv. The sheer panic and paranoia is just too much. Please Please keep it up! "oh my god I am in possession of a NFA weapon" "oh my god my state isn't an NFA state" "oh my god i'm a felon if I mail it" Are you SERIOUS???? I mean I assume most folks here are adults. Are you honestly siting in your house in sheer panic thinking the ATF is going to come knocking at your door? I should forward this to Ken Houchens, he would pee his pants laughing. The NFA makes rulings every day on various stuff and most people never ever hear about it unless you read the newsletters or keep up with such stuff thru SAR or the NFATCA. Chris, thank you for posting the letter from Mr. DiChario and making it very EASY for those that actually read the letter. I already sent mine off. Seriously folks, do you honestly think that the President of ATI would send out a letter recalling the barrel shrouds if they hadn't already coordinated a soulution with the NFA Branch to rectify the problem? Shroud + Serial number = accountability. Don't be the guy that thinks "i'll just destroy, mine, throw it in a pond, hide it for a collectors item, etc" as at somepoint the ATF down the road will want to know why XXXX SD models were sold and only XXXX shrouds were returned. Don't be the guy bucking the system then you will piss off the ATF. If Ford, Chevy, Toyota, who ever, recalls your car because the brakes dont work and it can kill you do you not trust them and continue to drive your car until the NTSB sends you a letter or do you have your car fixed so you don't get killed? Please, its a simple easy process. No need for paranoia though if you think I am full of s***t thats OK by me. PLEASE keep posting some of this stuff, I'm rolling here LMAO!!!!! X2 on that one. lol |
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Oh my god I can't take it anymore. You guys have me LMAO! I have watched this thread for the last two or three days and some of the replies are more enertaining than paying to go to the Improv. The sheer panic and paranoia is just too much. Please Please keep it up! "oh my god I am in possession of a NFA weapon" "oh my god my state isn't an NFA state" "oh my god i'm a felon if I mail it" Are you SERIOUS???? I mean I assume most folks here are adults. Are you honestly siting in your house in sheer panic thinking the ATF is going to come knocking at your door? I should forward this to Ken Houchens, he would pee his pants laughing. The NFA makes rulings every day on various stuff and most people never ever hear about it unless you read the newsletters or keep up with such stuff thru SAR or the NFATCA. Chris, thank you for posting the letter from Mr. DiChario and making it very EASY for those that actually read the letter. I already sent mine off. Seriously folks, do you honestly think that the President of ATI would send out a letter recalling the barrel shrouds if they hadn't already coordinated a soulution with the NFA Branch to rectify the problem? Shroud + Serial number = accountability. Don't be the guy that thinks "i'll just destroy, mine, throw it in a pond, hide it for a collectors item, etc" as at somepoint the ATF down the road will want to know why XXXX SD models were sold and only XXXX shrouds were returned. Don't be the guy bucking the system then you will piss off the ATF. If Ford, Chevy, Toyota, who ever, recalls your car because the brakes dont work and it can kill you do you not trust them and continue to drive your car until the NTSB sends you a letter or do you have your car fixed so you don't get killed? Please, its a simple easy process. No need for paranoia though if you think I am full of s***t thats OK by me. PLEASE keep posting some of this stuff, I'm rolling here LMAO!!!!! This response is exactly why I don't post on this site very often. I did read the letter, and my opinion still stands that if this is now an NFA device simply mailing it off does not equal accountability. How about looking at my location as well to see that this is more of a pain in the ass for me than it is for you. I have to coordinate this being done for me by people who are going to want to know every little detail so they don't get into serious trouble. Rather than posting your rantings about how funny and ridiculous my posting is, why not think about the position that ATI has now put me in? I agree that simply sitting on this is unacceptable, also agree that the ATF will eventually try to ensure compliance. I still have yet to see the actual ATF ruling or when this is to be completed. Having a security clearance to worry about, having to take polys where I am asked questions like "have you committed a felony" and relying on this issue to be sorted out by a third party since I am in IRAQ truly sucks. Now the next time they get to that question, I'm going to have to explain this in detail and prove that I've complied, did not willfully break the law, and took action to correct the situation ASAP. This is not a funny issue to me and I do not appreciate reading your post which is not helpful, disrepectful, and full of attitude that I didn't need to read today instead of helpful solutions with additional information. |
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OMG you are right, I shouldn't poke fun at such a serious situation as this. Gee, I never thought about my TS/SCI being in jeopardy. I am going to immediately notify OSI on Tuesday morning of this grave breech and hope and pray that the next SSBI I have I am not asked if I have owned or have known someone that has owned a GSG-5SD with a illegal barrel shroud as determined by ATF and rectified by ATI. BZ for pointing out the sarcasm and lack of humor in my post, I salute you.
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the best part is it may not have been from a letter. In Ga. there is at least one instance of a guy stopped and held by LEO who thought he had an nfa item . The other possibility is a leo inquiry
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On a more serious note if anyone has modified one of those Airsoft knockoff fake suppressors to fit your GSG carbine you might want to rethink that until the exact reason the ATF disliked the fat SD can is known. No big deal on an Airsoft rifle but once you put it on a real gun it may get caught in the same situation.
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Just curious, if this is such a big deal and all why no mention of this on the ATI webpage? Why is it that the only way you can find out about what is potentially a big problem is to stumble upon the notification here and here only? If you do a web search with the words GSG-5 SD and ATF you get nothing at all about this. I am curious as to how something like this is ever going to get out to the owners of these? Looks like we will have several folks in violation of the ATF's ruling and have no idea that they are.
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Hi,
I know you have questions. I have some answers for you so far. Unfortunately, we were pushed into action a little ahead of schedule with this because we couldn't say anything until the ATF legal guys said so, but their field agents were spreading info from an ill advised internal memo. I am going to review all of these posts and reply to each as necessary. Hang in here with me boys, here we go.... |
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How are the thousands of people that do not read this forum supposed to get this information?
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Its so funny how the SD was legal for sooooo long, then after the HK lawsuit was over ATF started talking shite. Not f-in cool.
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Maybe it is time for me to sell my unfired GSG-5 and get the S&W MP15-22...
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How much more is the replacement going to weigh? Is the finish any better on the new one. Mine chips the paint if you look at it wrong. Will it look the same when installed on the rifle?
The original SD fake suppressor weight .45 LBS (7.2 ounces). The new fake suppressor weight .5 LBS (8 ounces) so there's not really too much difference in the overall weight. Looking at the new one next to the old one, the finish looks the same. The modification is completely internal, there is no change in the guns appearence with the new fake suppressor. OK, since this applies ONLY to the GSG5/SD does this mean that the standard GSG5-carbine is in the clear????
Or is the fate of the GSG5-carbine "yet to be determined"?????????? As it stands right now it is only the SD can that is being effected by the mind changing at ATF. Another damn delay on getting an SD conversion kit!
Tell me about it And I am to be responsible to ship it back? I would like you to pick it up
At this time, we would like you to return it to the dealer where you bought it from. That way we can get them in bulk from the dealer and ship replacements to one location. How it gets to your dealer is up to you. interesting, brings up a couple of questions, wasnt it passed before importation? and what reason do they give?
Yes it was. I even have a letter I'm not allowed to share where they revoked our permits for being approved in error. The brunt of this entire situation is on ATI here, please don't look for an official letter to be issued to the public by the ATF because I get the feeling they will not. just curious, what will the replacement shroud look like?
will it be the smaller version, or something completely different? Nope, dead ringers. Infact, the modification can be done at the factory on the original version, which is why we're not destroying them. Cost saving. Is there an issue with the carbine models?
Not yet. Doesn't mean that they won't change their ruling on that either at this time though. isnt the carbine and the SD the same thing besides "girth"? i cant see why they would have changed the design without letting ATI know about it.....even thought they already changed the finish
This is the real kick in the groin here is that there has never been an alternate 'version' of the fake suppressor. The carbine version was a hollow shroud when it went in for testing, all the guns have hollow cans. Same for the SD. I think what's bothering me the most is that field agents have told dealers (I have several different accounts of this) that the can was originally solid and that it was altered at some point in time. Sorry fellas but EVERY SINGLE GSG-5 AND GSG-5SD HAS A HOLLOW CAN. It's the only way they were ever made. Also to pre-empt some questions too, THERE ARE NO APPROVED CANS ON ANY SD THAT IS IN THE COUNTRY. All the new GSG-522 guns, when they come out will have the new style can. Does the fake can actually reduce the dB ?
Mikey threaded one onto the 5P and shot a bunch of rounds. Nope, there is no noticable change in dB. I don't think ATF even tested it before revoking our licenses. I know that "we must comply or else" but seriously, what is the reason behind this? Is it based on potential? Should we stop selling 2 liter colas and baby bottle nipples?
When we met with the ATF about this in january one of their field agents showed us how to make a suppressor out of a bottle of water that was on the table. Granted, we have seen fake cans come in on gun repairs that have definately been altered and maybe they seized a gun with an altered one, i really don't know. They contacted us about it way back in Novemeber and it's all been slowly building up, but other than letting us know that we imported over 13 thousand guns that they have now decided are NFA firearms, telling us to formulate a plan for a recall/swap out and sending agents here to monitor our movements on this, they're not really telling us a whole lot. Isn't the end of the barrel even with the muzzle end of the "can"?
Yes, doesn't matter apparently. What reason did they give for the can falling under NFA?
Actually, I do have this, kind of, although the wording of the law and their reasons only kind of match up if you squint and tilt your head to the side a bit. Here is what the referenced in their letter regarding the re-testing of the shroud; "As you are aware, the GCA, 18 USC $ 921 (a) (24), defines 'firearm silencer' as follows: "....any device for silencing, muffling or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication." General characteristics of known firearm silencers include: 1 Ported inner tube (bleed holes) 2 Expansion chambers 3 Baffles or washers which create seperate expansion chambers 4 sound dampening material such as foam, steel wool and other materials 5 End Caps 6 Encapsulators The previously submitted GSG-5SD barrel shroud incorporates a large expansion chamber and integral end caps and, therefore, was classified as a firearm silencer." That's what they said. so to me at least, the jury is still out on the issue of whether or not the standard carbine is effected by this as ATI has yet to state that it absolutely is not.
This is accurate. Right now we have to wait to see what ATF tells us to do. what a bunch of shi+. Doesn't the ATF have anything better to do than come after firearms owners who own guns that THE ATF APPROVED IN THE FIRST PLACE??
Right on brother. and HOW long am i gonna be without a can? well, i guess we have to ask when the replacement will be available first.....
Well, that is hard to say. My first shipment of replacment cans is going into US Customs tomorrow. Got about 1500. The manufacturer over seas can pump out a few thousand a month and of course they all have to be paid for. As previously mentioned, unfortunately, all the fine details are not 100% solidified on how we're doing all of this and what the ATF tells us we can and cannot do. Case in point, the ATF is issuing an amnesty period for consumers but hasn't decided what that is yet, but we had to go live with the news because of what their field agents are telling store owners. Decisions are coming from the higher up ATF brass but on site execution is being handled by field agents from Buffalo on the local level. Needless to say, lets hope one hand knows what the other is doing. OK, so this doesn't make a lot of sense. If we remove the NFA regulated device and ship it, aren't we in further violation? If this device has suddenly become an NFA regulated item, isn't it more adviseable to destroy the device vs. shipping it? If I ship an "illegal" device via the USPS, haven't I just committed a whole entire series of additional felonies? Where is the actual ATF ruling?Do we have any kind of drop-dead date for compliance? I can't just take a silencer and ship it anywhere I'd like, if this device is now considered by legal definition a silencer––what your asking us to do is illegal. We need a whole lot more information on this issue.
I should think you would ask customers to remove and destroy the device, then supply a new one vs. returning and trying to ship an illegal device I think your first sentence says it all my friend. ATF says that we are to export all fake silencers back to Germany. Each one we receive will have to be connected to the firearms serial number and manually accounted for by the ATF. We lucked out that the interior sleeve can be added to the old design so once we start shipping quantities back to Germany they can be retro-fitted to the new design so hopefully we'll have some good turn around on getting larger quantities of cans. Receiving back the cans at our facility for inventory and packing is the ATFs call, so I can't imagine they would hold you for shipping the can when it's what they have instructed. Where is the actual ATF ruling?
We at ATI only have an official ruling on the can its self as being now classified as a real silencer. ATF has not issued any official documents regarding this publically or to ATI, other than having their lawyers approve the statement that starts this thread for consumers. I wish I had a 'here's the official word!' doc from ATF to give you, but it appears at this time I will not be getting one, or be allowed to show you what I already have. ^^HOLY SHIT. u r right.
now, we are screwed sideways!!! I will wait till I get a certified letter from the ATF that can accompany the "NFA Item" back to ATI. Be prepared to not recieve that letter, although I understand why you would want it. I want it too. The fact of the matter is that from April 2009 thru November 2009 we had a total of 5 approved permits to import the GSG-5SD, Cans individually for repair and the SD Conversion kit and those are now all revoked because of the changed decision. Rulings change and we as the importer, distributors, dealers and you as the consumer have to comply to their revision no matter if 'someone' is willing to admit fault or not. Once we physically mail letters to the dealers who have received GSG-5SDs from our distributors then it will be on the consumer to get the original can back, which really sucks a lot. But, if you keep your original fake can and in like, idk, two years get busted by an ATF guy for still having it, you'll be in some trouble. The ATF should issue expedited approved form 1's
A nice wish, but don't count on it. If the shop the weapon was purchased from is also a dealer that can legally sell silencers and other NFA items that would be a step in the right direction. In Iowa, I am not allowed to own a silencer unless I'm an approved LE or Mil user with the appropriate paperwork from the agency I work for. This still doesn't get around the fact that I don't have the appropriate ATF paperwork and am now magically in possession of a device that is banned in my state and there are maybe 1 or 2 FFLs in the whole state that deal with NFA devices.
This is where things are really hairy right now, especially because the ATF has told us they will offer an amnesty period but they have not said how long it will be. With everything having to be pushed up on getting this info out (thanks field agents) ATI is still dealing with setting up the distributors on this. Then we need to work with the dealers. Then we'll really be ready to deal with consumers. Unfortunately, it's not a perfect world. We're just trying to figure out which instructions given on which day from which division of ATF are the ones we need to follow with nothing but a silencer ruling on paper. I still have yet to see the actual ATF ruling or when this is to be completed.
I recommend that you contact NFA branch of ATF at (304) 616-4500 and ask them for this. I have no response from the ATF that they are going to issue this at all to us or the general populace. They did make us remove quite a bit of dialogue regarding the ATF from our letter before their lawyers would let us make a statement. exact reason the ATF disliked the fat SD can is known
One big hollow expansion chamber, end caps. That's it. I get irked by the wording in the ruling I put up in this thread a few lines up. It says expansion chambers-plural, we have expansion chamber-singular. Doesn't matter, they changed their minds, revoked my import licenses on original models and here we are. Just curious, if this is such a big deal and all why no mention of this on the ATI webpage? Why is it that the only way you can find out about what is potentially a big problem is to stumble upon the notification here and here only? If you do a web search with the words GSG-5 SD and ATF you get nothing at all about this. I am curious as to how something like this is ever going to get out to the owners of these? Looks like we will have several folks in violation of the ATF's ruling and have no idea that they are.
Unfortunately, Brent who updates the website is out sick, so hopefully he will be back tomorrow and we will have our home page updated. Again, we were pressed into kicking off this information sooner than we were really ready to because of field agents auditing dealers and telling them some not so correct or definate information. ATI is in the process of tracking down every SD starting with our distributors. We then have to track from our distributors to the dealers, then from dealers to consumer. ATF is making us follow the course of, run it by ATF and wait for the ATF to approve the methods of action with their legal department. This is not a fast turn around unfortunately. As we know more I will be updating you on here and we will be updating our site once Brent is back. If I didn't answer your questions let me know, but I hope that you have read all of this because as you can see, ATI doesn't really have a lot of answers right now either. We're taking it a day at a time and moving forward as we are directed to by the ATF. |
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chris, once again, thank you for doing all that you do and keeping us updated.
Can't believe they can just up and change something like their own ruling. very...... |
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Great update Chris, thanks. Sounds like the fix is to run a small tube from end to end that actually hugs the barrel tight so to speak so there isnt that wide open "expansion chamber" (and NO don't do it yourself at home). Just a speculation but I think the ATF doesnt like the fact that the thing is so fat and it has all that room on the inside. It would be pretty easy to modify that shroud to be a real suppressor, and its not like I haven't read post on this forum and others where some basement yahoo say "hey, if I did this or that to the shroud then XXXX" I know it sucks for you guys at ATI but better a little suck now than to have some yahoo actually make a suppressor out of one of your shrouds and get caught by the ATF. The suck factor would be much higher then.
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Quoted:
Can't believe they can just up and change something like their own ruling. very...... Doesnt surprise me in the least bit. I have seen it on importation of some surplus AK parts kits as well as a few years ago somebody was welding cut M-14 recievers back together. If I remember right they reversed their ruling on those as well, once a machine gun always a machine gun. Actually happens more than you might imagine and if it doesn't effect a gun that you own you probably will never hear about it. Not defending the ATF but I was an FFL for quite sometime and own a bunch of NFA weapons ant they are just doing their job. I never had a problem with any of them and have been in some weird situations not of my own doing. You just have to remember they work for the goverment and what does make sense with anything the goverment does? |
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good one sharkbit, that made the end of the day internal memo.
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