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Originally Posted By spyderboy03: Got some loaded up at roughly 2.245 over Shooter's World Tactical Rifle. Starting at 20.7 gr and working up by .3 to 22.8 gr. Hopefully I can get out and test these in the next couple weeks. https://i.imgur.com/Tg1U0gC.jpg View Quote Guy from shooters world says push them if you have a 5.56 chamber he recommends 2.245 and 26.2gn match rifle work up accordingly. 26.2 is a full grain under max |
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Has anyone worked out a reliable BC for these?
Trying to put together a rough table to go test out next weekend. -Mike |
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"Penetration , however slight, is sufficient to complete the offense" -UCMJ ART. 125
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Originally Posted By Strikefirst: Guy from showers works days push them if you have a 5.56 chamber he recommends 2.245 and 26.2gn match rifle work up accordingly. 26.2 is a full grain under max View Quote Good to know. I've got an 8# jug of match rifle, but I have 14# of tactical rifle so I figured I'd start with it. Haven't tested them yet, but I will soon hopefully. |
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They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin, 1775 |
Originally Posted By spyderboy03: Good to know. I've got an 8# jug of match rifle, but I have 14# of tactical rifle so I figured I'd start with it. Haven't tested them yet, but I will soon hopefully. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By spyderboy03: Originally Posted By Strikefirst: Guy from showers works days push them if you have a 5.56 chamber he recommends 2.245 and 26.2gn match rifle work up accordingly. 26.2 is a full grain under max Good to know. I've got an 8# jug of match rifle, but I have 14# of tactical rifle so I figured I'd start with it. Haven't tested them yet, but I will soon hopefully. Guy from shooters world says push... (I hate my phone) |
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Has anyone shot these into gel or water by chance?
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I never could get these to shoot very well in my two rifles. I loaded them up for plinking.
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24.0 TAC with the 69 RMR yesterday.
200 yards Sling-supported only. 4.5x scope White Oak basic service rifle upper 10-ring of target is about 2moa Ignore the SD reported by the e-target. My target had an issue with one of the sensors. So, while it was reporting shot location ok, I don’t trust the velocity or SD report. Attached File |
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They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin, 1775 |
Originally Posted By W_E_G: 24.0 TAC with the 69 RMR yesterday. View Quote The MR-52 has a small X ring. I'm assuming you shot those at magazine length? What are your impressions of the RMR bullets, a buddy of mine got 2K or the 75s and we tested them yesterday. They seemed ok, nothing spectacular but solid performance. B |
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Originally Posted By bpm990d: The MR-52 has a small X ring. I'm assuming you shot those at magazine length? What are your impressions of the RMR bullets, a buddy of mine got 2K or the 75s and we tested them yesterday. They seemed ok, nothing spectacular but solid performance. B View Quote Yes, all fired at magazine length. I'm very satisfied with the RMR 69's. Have not tried any of the new RMR 75's. Brass was Federal on second firing. CCI 450 primer. Everybody who I've heard complain about the RMR bullets was pushing maximum SAAMI pressure. I have no idea why people think they need to do that. My load with the 69's and 24.0 grains TAC is only running muzzle velocity of high 2600's. The difference in wind deflection out to 300 yards with 100 fps increased velocity is minimal |
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They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin, 1775 |
Do we have a thread for the new 75gr bullet?
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Gun control is like trying to eliminate drunk driving by making it illegal for sober people to own cars
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Anyone else actually shoot groups with BL-C2 loads?
I only had a bit of powder left and loaded up 30 with 24.5gr loaded to 2.235 OAL (basically the starting published load for 69gr SMK) but only got to shoot 10 of 'em on a gusty day. Looks like an honest 1" group to me, need to get more powder and do a proper ladder load up and more testing. Attached File |
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Nice. What barrel length, twist, make?
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Koalas are fucking horrible animals.
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I'll FINALLY be shooting my Tactical Rifle load ladder tomorrow. Going to shoot for groups, but I'm going to load up 10-15 more of my highest load to Chrono from my Criterion Core 12.5, as well as see if it will cycle my Geissele 10.3. It is still well under the 5.56 data, but the G barrel needs fairly hot ammo to cycle unsuppressed with an H1.
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Originally Posted By chumpmiester: I have 500 bullets and have some Ramshot TAC on the way. Any suggestions on where I should start. I will be shooting them out of a 18" AR barrel with a 1-8 twist. Thanks. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By chumpmiester: I have 500 bullets and have some Ramshot TAC on the way. Any suggestions on where I should start. I will be shooting them out of a 18" AR barrel with a 1-8 twist. Thanks. N133 H335 2460 Tac N530 N135 2520 748 BL-C(2) CFE 223 If anyone has any suggestions for these or would like me to try them and report back, that’d be cool. I’m going to be shooting these at 500 yd field matches and UKD ranges. Those of you that are having good results with Tac, what barrel and length? Originally Posted By chevrofreak: I am getting the same velocities and accuracy of many of the guys running 18" MK12 type guns. For example, in an 18" barrel MK262 tends to run 2760fps with a very stout load, but it provides incredible accuracy. The way that I think nodes work, can I expect that the best results from these 69s will occur at about that velocity when using an 18” stainless SPR barrel? I think I’d be happy with that velocity or maybe a little more. |
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Originally Posted By 1168RGR: The way that I think nodes work, can I expect that the best results from these 69s will occur at about that velocity when using an 18” stainless SPR barrel? I think I’d be happy with that velocity or maybe a little more. View Quote I'm not entirely sure how that works. |
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I got out on Sunday to test my Shooter's World Tactical Rifle load ladder. Info on it is very scarce, but I did find someone on the RMR Bullets forum saying they like 22.8gr and another saying 24gr. Shooter's World lists 23gr as the max .223 load for 69gr and 24.7 as the max load for 5.56. My ladder started at 20.7 and worked up to 22.8 in .3gr increments by hand, 5 rounds each, all loaded to 2.245". I then loaded up another 20 rounds at 22.8gr using my Lee Measure to chrono and test in my small gas port Geissele 10.3" build.
My goal for the 69gr is to replace my diminishing stash of 75gr PPU over 22.8gr of H335. I do not sort brass and have zero desire to. The goal is to end up with a round that I can consistently shoot 1.5-2" and I will shoot it exclusively (HD, plinking, 2-gun, Cola Warrior, etc.). I'll switch to it when I run out of my 75gr and 55gr loads. I tested these loads with the below pictured rifle. Geissele receivers, G REBCG, G Super 42/H2, 12.5" Criterion Core w/Badger gas block, G SSA-E trigger, ADM Delta mount with Delta Stryker HD 1-6 w/DGMR reticle. I did use a Magpul MLOK bipod with zero support at grip or stock. I started off confirming zero with the 75gr loads. Checked at 25 which was a cloverleaf, then shot 3 groups at 100. Those were 2-2.5". I then shot a group of 75gr Hornady Match and it was 2.5" or so, followed by 69gr Federal Gold Medal which was about 1.6". I am not a paper shooter and am a 1.5-2" group shooter on a good day. Under 1" is the rare/lucky group for me even with match ammo. I then shot my ladder. Nothing stood out to me as super accurate, but 22.8gr had the best potential. It always drives me crazy when people say they pull a round, but my second shot felt low. It caused that group to be about 2.5" and would have been 2.15" without. There were no pressure signs with any of the loads. All loads functioned the rifle as a semi-auto, but I don't remember the bolt locking back on 20.7gr. I think I am going to load some more at 22.8gr as well as 23.1gr and 23.4gr. I will also play with OAL a little. I will also finish my build with 16" Triarc barrel and 4-16x Swampfox. I think I will be able to tighten things up a little that way. I may also try to borrow a buddy's sled. The 10.3" build functioned on the 22.8gr with an H1 buffer, but did not lock back on empty. I'm hoping the suppressor for it will be out of jail in the next 2-4 months (July 5th submission). I kind of want to push powder a little higher to get it to lock back on empty with no suppressor and the H1, which will hopefully lock back with Super 42 and H3 with the suppressor (Turbo T2). ETA: forgot to say it was 35 degrees, cloudy, and no noticeable wind. Rifle used: Attached File Chrono data (powder measure, not hand measured): Attached File |
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There is a shooters world group on the book of face.
Ken Johnson from SW posts on there regularly. On a 69 gr using match rifle powder he recommended not to treat them like 223 but 5.56 and push them. Might want to try exploring the top end... but I don't have tactical. I have ar-plus, match rifle and Precision. Thread on the book of face (may need to join the group): https://m.facebook.com/groups/shootersworldpowder/permalink/754641451998123/ |
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Originally Posted By Strikefirst: There is a shooters world group on the book of face. Ken Johnson from SW posts on there regularly. On a 69 gr using match rifle powder he recommended not to treat them like 223 but 5.56 and push them. Might want to try exploring the top end... but I don't have tactical. I have ar-plus, match rifle and Precision. Thread on the book of face (may need to join the group): https://m.facebook.com/groups/shootersworldpowder/permalink/754641451998123/ View Quote I'm in that group. I commented on another post about Tactical Rifle and haven't gotten any responses. I may just start my own post. |
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Tested 23.1gr and 23.4gr yesterday. Tested them in my 16" Triarc barreled AR with 4-16X Swampfox. Also tested 1 round of each in the 10.3 to see if they would lock it back. Both rounds had enough gas to lock it back.
I need to retest 23.1 as I totally bump fired a round and it was nowhere on paper.... However, the other 4 were were a close group of .93". 23.4 was a group of 1.56". Neither had pressure signs so I may step up again, unless 23.1 retests in the 1" range Attached File Attached File |
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Finally shot my retest of 23.1gr of Shooter's World. I loaded 20 rounds at 2.245 and 20 rounds at 2.235. I chrono'd 5 each in my 12.5" Criterion Core and Triarc 16" barrels as well as shot a 5 round group of each through each. I am just not a tiny group shooter .
OAL did no affect the velocity. Both sets of 5 in the 16" had the exact same average and the sets through the 12.5" were 19 fps apart. This is mixed brass and CCI #450 primers. I am sure sorting brass would helps with a few things, but I do not care to. 12.5" @ 2.245 - 2,552 FPS, ES - 58 FPS, SD - 19 FPS 12.5" @ 2.235 - 2,533 FPS, ES - 62 FPS, SD - 25 FPS (Only 4 rounds of the 5 were captured) 16" @ 2.245 - 2,711 FPS, ES - 38 FPS, SD - 14 FPS 16" @ 2.235 - 2,711 FPS, ES - 84 FPS, SD - 29 FPS I didn't shoot as well today, but I think I am going to move forward with 23.1 gr at 2.235. It runs my reduced gas port barrels well with and without suppressors, and I am going to be running this in bulk on my LNL AP. I'll load up a few thousand and use it for plinking, drills, and Cola Warrior which goes out to 550. My 75 gr PPU load over 22.8gr of H335 has WAY higher SD & ES, is much slower, and I've cleared CWNW out to 500/550 with it twice without issue. This load seems like it will be more consistent and a touch more accurate. The target below is all from my 16" AR from before, but I swapped the rail last week and didn't re=zero before these groups. Top left is SWTR @ 2.245, top right is SWTR @ 2.235, center is Hornady Match .223 75gr, bottom left is Federal Gold Medal 69gr, and bottom right is Federal Gold Medal 77gr. My 2 groups from my 12.5 were off paper as my EOTech is zero'd at 50 yards with my 75gr PPU load. The top left shot and top shot of the SWTR rifle groups were both the first round. I'll try to get a 10 round group or two on paper in the next month or two. Ultimately I think this shows I am just not a tight group paper shooter. My eyes were strained after these 7 groups. I think more time doing this and working on fundamentals would help, but I don't care to do that...lol. Attached File |
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Tried this same load today in my new Howa mini, had to run it single shot. Gave a 2" 5 shot group at 100
Need to reseat the 10 I have left and try again, but I need more powder to do any real workup Originally Posted By eye-gor: Anyone else actually shoot groups with BL-C2 loads? I only had a bit of powder left and loaded up 30 with 24.5gr loaded to 2.235 OAL (basically the starting published load for 69gr SMK) but only got to shoot 10 of 'em on a gusty day. Looks like an honest 1" group to me, need to get more powder and do a proper ladder load up and more testing. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/504616/rmr693gh_jpg-2706750.JPG View Quote |
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'Thorry, thur, but Igorth do not “tetht the printhiple”. Thtrap it to the bench and put a good thick bolt of lightning through it, thatth our motto. Thatth how you tetht thomething.'
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Originally Posted By spyderboy03: Ultimately I think this shows I am just not a tight group paper shooter. My eyes were strained after these 7 groups. I think more time doing this and working on fundamentals would help, but I don't care to do that...lol. View Quote You are SPOT ON with is, though. Shooters and competitors (try to) do this ultra-precise shooting to find the most accurate load possible but it really isn't needed for most people. The rigor required to measure the difference between loads is not insignificant. It involves full-blown benchrest shooting gear (including telescopic sights) and benchrest shooting techniques and skills. It also requires a lot of rounds. By the time you do all that, you are miles away from iron sight shooting an across the course match (for example). It can be a HUGE, expensive distraction from what you're interested in. Even then, when the shooter is only capable 2 MOA, the 1/4 or 1/2 MOA difference between loads is totally irrelevant (just an example). Heck, even 1 MOA makes little difference. Get a decent load and shoot it. Don't waste time, money and barrel life testing and retesting. Learn to dope the wind and mirage. If the shooter gets to the point where they can detect the inaccuracy of the ammo in their scores*, then you have a reason to improve the load. Until then,... just shoot. * When you KNOW you missed a "clean" or a high "X count" because of the load, it's time. |
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I shot a YAHTZEE on offhand today.
I’m sure it had nothing to do with me being old and out of shape and the heat index being 95. I blame the ammo. Those crummy 77SMK’s. Should have shot my RMR’s! |
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They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin, 1775 |
I cant get these to shoot worth a damn out of my ARs but my Ruger ranch loves them, sub 1/2" at 100.
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5 shot group with 23.4 gr of SWTR got an average velocity of 2,751 FPS out of my 16" Triarc with Resonator K on it. ES of 35 FPS and SD or 12 FPS. 88 degrees at the time.
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Testing again from the other weekend… the 69’s still don’t love TAC, but the 75’s do!
Shot at 100 yards through my 20” Bartlein AR… Attached File |
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derp...
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"Penetration , however slight, is sufficient to complete the offense" -UCMJ ART. 125
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Originally Posted By 20andOUT: These continue to impress. Great bullet for the money. 5 shots at 500yd plate with just a little wind out of a 16” WOA. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/77352/IMG_8659-3259589.jpg View Quote I really need to go shoot my test loads...I focused on my gold dots last time and these just say in the bag. Very nice shooting! |
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I took 350 of these 69 RMR bullets loaded over TAC to a one day carbine course. We shot out to 300 yards, and these bullets did just fine. This is a great all around load. I still will load heavier 75/77 grain bullets for shooting out to 600 yards, but for most purposes the 69 gr bullets will be my choice.
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Originally Posted By AeroEngineer: I took 350 of these 69 RMR bullets loaded over TAC to a one day carbine course. We shot out to 300 yards, and these bullets did just fine. This is a great all around load. I still will load heavier 75/77 grain bullets for shooting out to 600 yards, but for most purposes the 69 gr bullets will be my choice. View Quote What’s your TAC load details with the 69 and the rifle you developed it on? I probably should stop being so anal about wanting it to shoot as good as the 75’s. |
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derp...
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Originally Posted By ZA206: What's your TAC load details with the 69 and the rifle you developed it on? I probably should stop being so anal about wanting it to shoot as good as the 75's. View Quote |
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Originally Posted By ZA206: What’s your TAC load details with the 69 and the rifle you developed it on? I probably should stop being so anal about wanting it to shoot as good as the 75’s. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By ZA206: Originally Posted By AeroEngineer: I took 350 of these 69 RMR bullets loaded over TAC to a one day carbine course. We shot out to 300 yards, and these bullets did just fine. This is a great all around load. I still will load heavier 75/77 grain bullets for shooting out to 600 yards, but for most purposes the 69 gr bullets will be my choice. What’s your TAC load details with the 69 and the rifle you developed it on? I probably should stop being so anal about wanting it to shoot as good as the 75’s. 24.0 grains of TAC, LC cases, CCI 400 primer, 2.25" COAL and getting about 2700 FPS from a 16" stainless BA Hansen barrel with 1:7 twist. This load shoots 2.something MOA from this carbine, and a little better from a 18" WOA rifle. I was able to consistently hit A-Zone sized steel plates at up to 300 yards, shooting from barricade positions under time pressure. I'm certain any of the misses were completely due to me and not the bullet. |
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Originally Posted By ZA206: What’s your TAC load details with the 69 and the rifle you developed it on? I probably should stop being so anal about wanting it to shoot as good as the 75’s. View Quote @ZA206 The RMR 75 shoot that good? Doh! Scroll up to see your results...I might have to look into those. I've been getting the 75gr hornady cheap lately |
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Because of this thread, I went and pulled my old targets from the 100 yard tests of the 69 gr RMR's.
I got called to dinner before I could do anything constructive but will say these things. I can back them up with numbers and pictures later on. 1. The RMR 69 shot significantly larger groups than either the Hornady 75 gr HPBT-M or the 80 GR Sierra MatchKing. Of those three bullets, the 80 SMK gave the smallest groups. There may be some subtleties in the data because of different brass makers and different powders but that info is out in the garage, not at hand. 2. From what I saw today, I'd say the RMR 69 is a decent inexpensive bullet but would probably cost me a few points in a match. That is, it would add enough error to actually show up on the face of the target. I'll shoot some more soon and see how it compares to that prior test. |
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Originally Posted By Strikefirst: I've been getting the 75gr hornady cheap lately View Quote Group size is one metric we can explore in this thread. Can I ask how much you consider to be "cheap"? I'm asking in a "bang for the buck" sense. How do they compare in group size to the Hornady or Sierra? How do they compare in cost to the Hornady or Sierra? |
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer: Group size is one metric we can explore in this thread. Can I ask how much you consider to be "cheap"? I'm asking in a "bang for the buck" sense. How do they compare in group size to the Hornady or Sierra? How do they compare in cost to the Hornady or Sierra? View Quote I have 77gr smk load test ready to go. 32 cents Also the 75 gr w/ canneliure hornady ready to go. 21 cents I've heard great accuracy reports from the midsouth black tip 75 gr. I haven't had the 18" out in quite a while. |
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer: I'd say the RMR 69 is a decent inexpensive bullet but would probably cost me a few points in a match. . View Quote Something would have to be seriously wrong with your ammo for any sort of "match" bullet to cost you points on the SR or SR-3 target. Let's be honest, the 10-ring is HUGE by any hard accuracy standard on those targets. Yeah, maybe cost you some X's. But not points. Now if you are shooting it slow-prone, on reduced targets, you gotta be careful there. A "plenty-good" load for offhand and RF sitting and RF prone may not reliably hold a reduced 10-ring. That said, I've shot some plenty-good scores with the RMR69 on reduced slow-fire prone targets. White Oak service rifle barrel 24.2 grains of TAC or Varget I shoot 80 SMK's at true 600. No opinion on what the 69RMR can/can't do past 300. |
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They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin, 1775 |
Originally Posted By W_E_G: Something would have to be seriously wrong with your ammo for any sort of "match" bullet to cost you points on the SR or SR-3 target. Let's be honest, the 10-ring is HUGE by any hard accuracy standard on those targets. Yeah, maybe cost you some X's. But not points. View Quote It was a qualitative assessment based on looking at the targets. The groups were large compared to the 80 SMKs. Quantitative measurements and photos are pending. I also plan to re-do the test, to check for repeatability. We'll see. |
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P.S. -
W_E_G, look at your shot #11, see how that opened up the group? That's the kind of group size I'm seeing. Also, look at 20andOUT's groups in Post #2. He's showing 2 - 2 1/2 MOA average groups size. Those are very representative of what's on my targets, too. ZZA206 shows them to be less accurate than the RMR 75's. On that same day, I shot 80 SMK's into a tight knot, the 69 RMR's are not a knot. I was using 23.5 gr of TAC (because it works for 75 gr bullets). I'll bump that up to 24.0 and see if it helps. They are a decent, inexpensive bullet. I have no doubt about that. |
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I loaded up 50 of the RMR 69 gr bullets using 24 gr of TAC, WSR primers in R-P cases at OAL ~ 2.245" so they fit in my magazines.
As soon as I can, I'll shoot them to see how they group at 100 yards. How does that 100 yards sound for testing these? I picked that to stay out of the sun and because wind is less of a factor. Should I go out to 200 or 300 yards for group sizes? |
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All 24gr? 100yd is fine.
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"Technique isn't something that can be taught. It's something you find on your own." - Bunta Fujiwara
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer: W_E_G, look at your shot #11, see how that opened up the group? That's the kind of group size I'm seeing. View Quote I don't keep detailed data book when I'm shooting in a match. So, I can't tell you whether I called that shot low at the time or not. The most telling thing about that group is the month and hour of the day. Heat index was probably around 100. If I can keep my shit together shooting prone from a sling well enough to shoot a 198 in August at the noon-hour, I'm having a REAL GOOD DAY. When the group opens up because of the shooter, and I'm the nut behind the butt, I lose shots low, and I lose shots right. No way I'm gonna blame the gun or the ammo for one low shot out of 20 under those conditions. Attached File |
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They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin, 1775 |
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