We get these two questions a lot, and frankly, it gets old after multiple repetitions and debates.

QUESTION #1:  The usual phrasing goes "the military uses the "Mwhatever", therefore it must be a Service Rifle."

WRONG!!!

 Simply issuing a rifle to military members is not sufficient grounds for declaring it a "Service Rifle."  Written approval from CMP must exist before a before a rifle is considered to be a Service Rifle (and therefore legal for use in Excellence-in-Competition matches).

As of 2005, the only M16 (and civilian copy) variants that are legal for use in the service rifle category are:

- M16A1
- M16A2
- M16A4

NOTE:  The M1 Garand and M14 (and civilian legal clones) are still classified as service rifles, provided that thy meet the requirements established in CMP rules.

 The rule of thumb CMP (with input from the various military service teams) uses to determine if a rifle is a service rifle is that the rifle in question must be issued to the MAJORITY of soldiers/sailors/marines.  As of 2005, M4s, SR25s, AR10s, M21s, and M24s are NOT service rifles.  Show up with one in a CMP "Excellence-in-Competition" match, and you will not be allowed to use it.  Show up at an NRA highpower match, and you're shooting in the "match rifle" category, not service rifle.

Question #2: Some variant of "CMP legal service rifles aren't in "as issued" configuration (as seen on TV)."

Folks, the outside of the rifle has to mirror what is issued, with specific exceptions as listed in the rules.  (M203s, "Kelly grips", optical sights and lights, and handguard rail systems are NOT considered to be part of the standard issue rifle.)  Inside the shell, anything goes, so long as:

• The caliber remains the same;


• The controls remain the same (full auto capability must be disabled);


• The rifle is safe to operate.  This includes:


• No muzzle brakes;


• No "release triggers" (Trigger does not trip when released after squeezing).

Note that despite there being commercially available match conditioned rifles, you can still compete with a "stock" rifle that meets the above requirements.  Good scores can be turned in with unmodified rifles - it just takes a lot more skill (and a bit of luck) to do so.

And when in doubt READ THE RULES.
www.odcmp.com/Competitions/Rulebook.pdf
The section covering AR-15 type rifles is paragraph 6.2.3 "U.S. Rifle, Caliber 5.56mm, M16"

(Moderator, if it isn't too presumptive, can we pin this thread?)

ASA,

In the above picture you state that the magazine in the top picture is not legal as it does not conform to the dimensions of a 20 round magazine.  It looks just like the GI issue 20 round mag to me, which is legal.  The magazines in the bottom pics are clearly of the 30 round configuration.

Ira Ruderman
New York

Quoted: It looks just like the GI issue 20 round mag to me, which is legal.  The magazines in the bottom pics are clearly of the 30 round configuration.

Ira,

 The GI 20 round magazine has an angle (front is shorter than the rear) at the bottom.  The one in the picture is square (no angle at the bottom), and therefore does not conform to the "As Issued" configuration.

The bottom of a (real GI) 20 rounder is darn near parallel to the bottom of the mag well.  The one in the picture looks like someone at RRA did a little photoshop job on the 30-round mag!

Asa,

I stand corrected!  We handle them so much but rarely sit and look at them for all that long!

Ira

Quoted: The bottom of a (real GI) 20 rounder is darn near parallel to the bottom of the mag well.  The one in the picture looks like someone at RRA did a little photoshop job on the 30-round mag!

No photoshop their, IIRC they made their 10 rds Ban era mags like that.

I dunno.  Doesn't look anything like the low cap mag that came with my RRA A2.  But, if you look close, it looks just like the bottom part of the 30-round mags sticking out of the other two rifles.  Look at the (I believe) mfg date stamp on them.

AR SP1's allowed for CMP competition?  If not I'd have to ask why?  I know they are not current military hardware but either is the M1 Garand or the M14.

Quoted: AR SP1's allowed for CMP competition?  If not I'd have to ask why?

SP1 = M16A1 clone.  Therefore not a Service Rifle.

Quoted: From the CMP (www.odcmp.com/Competitions/M16.htm): M16 A4 Service Rifles Guidelines for M16 A4 or Commercial-Equivalent Rifles to be Used in Service Rifle Competitions The 2004 edition of the CMP Competition Rules expanded the definition of legal service rifles by ...... (deleted for space) - Butt Stock. To accommodate shooters of smaller stature, a standard butt stock from an M16 A1 rifle may be fitted to either the M16 A2 or M16 A4. Questions. Comments about these guidelines or further questions about legal service rifles or other issues concerning CMP Competition Rules should be addressed to the CMP at [email protected] or 419-635-2141, ext. 1112.

if you look in the 2004 CMP rulebook (http://www.odcmp.com/Competitions/Rulebook.pdf) under 6.2.3 item (11) it states:

The M16A1 Carbine butt stock or the commercial equivalent may be installed on an M16A2 or M16A4 rifle.

Does specifing "carbine butt stock' mean the collapsible type on the A1 (and now M4) carbine?

the A4 specifics mentioned above say standard A1 rifle buttstock....

w

Quoted:Does specifing "carbine butt stock' mean the collapsible type on the A1 (and now M4) carbine? the A4 specifics mentioned above say standard A1 rifle buttstock....

The M16A1 never had a collapsing buttstock.  M4 type buttstocks are not allowed for service rifle competition.

Quoted: AR SP1's allowed for CMP competition?  If not I'd have to ask why?  I know they are not current military hardware but either is the M1 Garand or the M14.

A Service Rifle is whatever the CMP decides it is.  If you don't like it, you'll have to take it up with them.

Quoted: AR SP1's allowed for CMP competition?  If not I'd have to ask why?  I know they are not current military hardware but either is the M1 Garand or the M14.

Quoted: The M14 is still a service rifle for the US Navy.  The M1 is an "Obsolescent" rifle retained as the Navy's equivalent of Standard B (years ago when the Navy had M1s and the demand for M14s was so great the Navy had to wait, they converted many M1s from 30-06 to 7.62mm NATO).

Just bringing good people together.  Have a great day

Quoted: ... The M16A1 Carbine butt stock or the commercial equivalent may be installed on an M16A2 or M16A4 rifle. Does specifing "carbine butt stock' mean the collapsible type on the A1 (and now M4) carbine? ... w

The A1 was considered by some to be a "carbine" due to length of pull and weight but it never had anything but a standard stock, be it 5/8" shorter than the A2 (which is why you have a spacer under the buffer/spring tube).

Looking at those pics....it appears a stainless barrel is not considered a modification? Also, is barrel contour a consideration?

The CMP rulebook says color is not a modification.  However, altering the profile of the VISIBLE portion of the barrel (other than removing the flash hider or bayonet lug) by any means (including fluting) is not allowed.

Using the link provided in the first message, go to Chapter 6 of the rulebook.  This is the section covering firearms, ammunition, and equipment.

So, would a target crown be illegal on a 'Service Class' rifle?  The reason I ask is that I am leaning towards the purchase of a Rock River Arms NM A2.  I live in New York, so no flash hider. I'd rather just have a recessed target crown to comply with the Post Ban configuration.

Appologies if this is a dumb question - but how to the CMP rules relate the the NRA rules?  

Specifically, I want to put an A1 stock on my AR.  Can I do so and take it as a service rifle to any high power rifle match?

Quoted: Okay, the M16A1 butstock is premited, the handguards prolly not,  how bout the older style M16A1 pistol grip?

The A1 grip is not allowed, and neither are the A1 handguards.  Neither is on the list of approved external modifications.

That said, it would have to be someone really anal to call the A1 grip.  The A1 handguards are simply too obvious.

Asa,

I have standard A2 furniture, but it's camoed in Realtree. Would it be ok for CMP?

thanx

Quoted: Asa, I have standard A2 furniture, but it's camoed in Realtree. Would it be ok for CMP? thanx

Yes.  Color is irrelevant.

The CMP rules are available on line and state that stocks may be of any color.

Quoted: I'd rather just have a recessed target crown to comply with the Post Ban configuration.

See paragraph 6.2.3 "U.S. Rifle, Caliber 5.56mm, M16", supbaragraph (6)

The flash suppressor and bayonet lug may be removed or the rifle may be manufactured without a flash suppressor or bayonet lug.  Barrel length may not exceed 20 inches, as measured to the end of the rifling in the barrel.

Quoted: So, would a target crown be illegal on a 'Service Class' rifle?

No, it is not.  I can't cite you exactly what rule makes it so, but every National Match AR, whether factory or custom built, has a target crown (either recessed or conical) regardless of whether it has a flash suppressor or not.

Asa and SWO_daddy, thank you for taking the time to answer my question. I did read those sections in the rulebook that was linked-to, but I still wasn't sure. Now all that's left to do is get the money together and order. Thanks again.

Asa, you are correct.

The Service Rifle is as determined by the services.  The Army "Standard-A" general issue service rifle and issued to the majority of ground troops is the M16A2 and M16A4.  "Standard-B" rifles are those that are no longer "Standard-A" and are issued "In lieu of" the Standard-A rifle (such as the M16A1 for National Guard and Reserve units out of war reserve stock, and the obsolescent or obsolete M14).  The M14 is still a service rifle for the US Navy.  The M1 is an "Obsolescent" rifle retained as the Navy's equivalent of Standard B (years ago when the Navy had M1s and the demand for M14s was so great the Navy had to wait, they converted many M1s from 30-06 to 7.62mm NATO).

Many Standard B weapons surplus to US Goverment requirements are de-militarized (cut, torched, bandsawed, crushed, or melted) or given to allies or sold under the Foreign Military Sales program.

All Springfields were declared obsolete by ALL services and the DOD, are no longer service rifles, and indeed with the exception of ceremonial and drill weapons are no longer in inventory and considered government surplus.

The M4 Carbine (and Air Force GAU-5 derivants) are carbines, not rifles.  Troops do not qualify with carbines in basic training.  

The M14, M21, XM25, M24, M40, MP5, AR10, SR25, Mk11, SPR, DMR, SAM-R, etc, etc, e.i.e.i.o., ad infinitum) are specialty weapons, either issued for sniping or other specialized (DM) purpose or by a separate command (USSOCOM, for example).  They are not the Service Rifle.

I just read the rules (section 6.2.3) and it says only the M16A2 and M16A4, not the M16A1. It does however say you may use the M16A1 buttstock. Am I looking in the right place?

Thank you Sinister (you too Asa...I think we were typing at the same time),
I stand corrected.  This is the first time I've seen anyone with any authority clarify how "Service Rifles" were determined by the CMP.
Chris.

Quoted: I just read the rules (section 6.2.3) and it says only the M16A2 and M16A4, not the M16A1. It does however say you may use the M16A1 buttstock. Am I looking in the right place?

Jetlag,
 You are looking in the right place.  I have emailed Gary Anderson (DCM) and COL Liwanag (CO of the AMU), asking them for an interpretation as to the status of the M16A1.

 Nobody ever said writing rules was easy.

Quoted: I just read the rules (section 6.2.3) and it says only the M16A2 and M16A4, not the M16A1. It does however say you may use the M16A1 buttstock. Am I looking in the right place?

You are correct.

The use of the M16A1 stock is one of the very few external modifications allowed.  Other external modifications are the removal of the M16's flash hider and bayo lug to comply with laws, and the use of any finish or color on the weapon's exterior.

The M16A1 itself is not an authorized service rifle for competition.  It is, however allowed as a "Match Rifle" under NRA Highpower Rules.

Quoted: The M16A1 itself is not an authorized service rifle for competition.  It is, however allowed as a "Match Rifle" under NRA Highpower Rules.

In emails w/ the CO of AMU (COL Liwanag) and Gary Anderson, it was determined that although the rules prior to 2004 did not exclude the M16A1, there was an unwritten understanding that only the M16A2 would be allowed in EIC matches.  As a result of this conversation, it appears that from 2005 on, ONLY M16A2s and A4s are legal for use in EIC matches.

Quoted: Quoted: The M16A1 itself is not an authorized service rifle for competition.  It is, however allowed as a "Match Rifle" under NRA Highpower Rules. In emails w/ the CO of AMU (COL Liwanag) and Gary Anderson, it was determined that although the rules prior to 2004 did not exclude the M16A1, there was an unwritten understanding that only the M16A2 would be allowed in EIC matches.  As a result of this conversation, it appears that from 2005 on, ONLY M16A2s and A4s are legal for use in EIC matches.

Yes, it was high time that the M16 configurations considered legal were specifically mentioned.  I'm sure that wasn't a problem five years ago, but the proliferation of M16 variants and accessories both in the military and out had made it impossible to say for certain what is allowed and what is not.

Informal, unwritten understandings are not acceptable in organized competition where a level playing field is necessary.

Quoted: Quoted: The M16A1 itself is not an authorized service rifle for competition.  It is, however allowed as a "Match Rifle" under NRA Highpower Rules. In emails w/ the CO of AMU (COL Liwanag) and Gary Anderson, it was determined that although the rules prior to 2004 did not exclude the M16A1, there was an unwritten understanding that only the M16A2 would be allowed in EIC matches.  As a result of this conversation, it appears that from 2005 on, ONLY M16A2s and A4s are legal for use in EIC matches.

What is an M16A1?

If you have A2 rear sights but A1 stock /  triangle handguards, what is it? Keep in mind, the barrel is strickly non-A1 and non-A2, there probably isn't a flashhider, yadda yadda yadda.


I know one guy who has the A1 front sight on his competition AR (I'd rather have square than round myself), and I know another old salt with A1 handguards (not sure about the buttstock).

Since the rules state that an AR-15\M-16 rifle must be the same 'as issued' by the military, and the only two variants allowed are the A2 and A4 models, the A1 handguards would technicaly be a violation of the rules. Since modified sights are allowed, the front sight shouldn't be an issue. The two clubs I shoot HP with are prety lax about rifle configuration during club matches, but follow the letter of the law for leg matches.

Quoted: What is an M16A1? If you have A2 rear sights but A1 stock /  triangle handguards, what is it? Keep in mind, the barrel is strickly non-A1 and non-A2, there probably isn't a flashhider, yadda yadda yadda. I know one guy who has the A1 front sight on his competition AR (I'd rather have square than round myself), and I know another old salt with A1 handguards (not sure about the buttstock).

Quoted: Since the rules state that an AR-15\M-16 rifle must be the same 'as issued' by the military, and the only two variants allowed are the A2 and A4 models, the A1 handguards would technicaly be a violation of the rules. Since modified sights are allowed, the front sight shouldn't be an issue. The two clubs I shoot HP with are prety lax about rifle configuration during club matches, but follow the letter of the law for leg matches. Quoted: What is an M16A1? If you have A2 rear sights but A1 stock /  triangle handguards, what is it? Keep in mind, the barrel is strickly non-A1 and non-A2, there probably isn't a flashhider, yadda yadda yadda. I know one guy who has the A1 front sight on his competition AR (I'd rather have square than round myself), and I know another old salt with A1 handguards (not sure about the buttstock).

I mostly shoot at "lax" matches. But I want too keep my AR legal "just in case".

I was thinking that the A1 handguards would be cool, and make my AR stand out at the range. I guess I'll have to resort to butstock art or a paint job. Red White and Blue? Cali state flag (kinda ironic)? Aztec carrying nakkid female (and Red White and Green--I haven't seen many "Mexican" ARs in Highpower).  I like the AZ state flag, but I ain't from there although I relate to AZ better than my home state of CA.

At the Creedmore Cup, one guy had a pimped out match AR--lots of crome, etc. He won top match expert, IIRC (maybe he was the only match expert?). But I don't do crome. Tacky Mexican motifs are another matter . . .

So would a ergo or magpul grip dq a rifle from being legal in a shoot?  wasn't sure about furniture.

I am not familiar with either one of the grips mentioned.  However, if they are not the pistol grips issued with a basic A2 or A4, and if the outline of the rifle does not match that of the basic A2 or A4, the rifle is NOT legal.

This is legal:

NOTE:  The magazine pictured is NOT LEGAL - it does not conform to the dimensions of the standard 20 round magazine.

With the carry handle sights, this is legal:


Anything else (including this) is NOT LEGAL


Illegal features in the rifle above:

• Short barrel and handguards


• Carry handle not GI issue type


• Pistol grip not issue configuration


• Collapsing stock


• Side mount sling swivel

This is also NOT LEGAL


This is also NOT LEGAL


Pictures #1 and 3 from the Rock River Arms website.  Pictures #2, 4, and 5 from the Colt website.

From the CMP (www.odcmp.com/Competitions/M16.htm):

M16 A4 Service Rifles
Guidelines for M16 A4 or Commercial-Equivalent Rifles to be Used in Service Rifle Competitions

The 2004 edition of the CMP Competition Rules expanded the definition of legal service rifles by including, for the first time, the M16 A4 rifle. This means that now both the M16 A2, which has been used by service rifle shooters for many years, and the M16 A4, the so-called “flat-top” version with a removable carry handle, or commercial equivalents of those two service rifles, are now legal for use in CMP EIC (leg) or National Trophy Matches. All commercial equivalent rifles must be “of the same type (configuration) and caliber.” Highpower service rifle competitors also may continue to use the M14 service rifle or its commercial equivalent, the M1A.

The decision to add the M16 A4 to the list of legal service rifles was made because this version is now used in Army basic training and is being issued to many military units including units in Iraq. Rules concerning legal service rifles are quite restrictive. To be recognized as a service rifle, a rifle must not only be a U. S. military rifle, but it must be a rifle that is commonly issued to large numbers of military personnel. CMP Competition Rules do not recognize special purpose military rifles as service rifles because they do not meet this criteria. This is to assure that all service rifle shooters have rifles with similar capabilities.

Subsequent to making this rule change, the CMP has received many questions about how the M16 A4 or its commercial equivalents must be configured to be legal for use in service rifle competitions. These guidelines seek to clarify and answer those questions. M16 A4 or commercial equivalent rifles must meet the following requirements:

- Carry Handle and Rear Sight. The rifle must be equipped with a carry handle and rear sight that has the same configuration as the carry handle on the M16 A2 (height, type of sight, etc.). No optical sights are permitted. It is recognized that the elevation screw shaft in the M16 A4 removable carry handle must be shorter.

- Carry Handle Location. The carry handle must be attached to the rifle’s “upper” in such a way that the location of the handle and rear sight corresponds with the carry handle and sight location on the M16 A2. This is to assure that the sight radius of all M16/AR15-type rifles remains the same.

- Front Sight. A standard M16 front sight must be fixed in the same location as it is on the M16 A2.  

- Upper Handguard. A standard handguard or tube without an accessory rail must be used. The sling swivel can attach to the front ferrule of the handguard or the front tip of the tube in accordance with Rule 6.2.3 (10).

- Butt Stock. To accommodate shooters of smaller stature, a standard butt stock from an M16 A1 rifle may be fitted to either the M16 A2 or M16 A4.

Questions. Comments about these guidelines or further questions about legal service rifles or other issues concerning CMP Competition Rules should be addressed to the CMP at [email protected] or 419-635-2141, ext. 1112.

Quoted: So would a ergo or magpul grip dq a rifle from being legal in a shoot?  wasn't sure about furniture.

no

Quoted: Quoted: So would a ergo or magpul grip dq a rifle from being legal in a shoot?  wasn't sure about furniture. no

??? So you are saying ergo / magpul are OK?

Quoted: ??? So you are saying ergo / magpul are OK?

You will be disqualified if you use a grip that looks different than the ones shown on the first two rifles in the pictures above.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So would a ergo or magpul grip dq a rifle from being legal in a shoot?  wasn't sure about furniture. no ??? So you are saying ergo / magpul are OK?

No, I was saying No to the ergo / magpul grips.

I just wanted a clarification 'cuz he asked if those things would DQ his rifle, and you said no.

OK  what about mags.   I understand that the staight body 20 round Mag is legal but can a Magpul bottom be attached?

Quoted: OK  what about mags.   I understand that the staight body 20 round Mag is legal but can a Magpul bottom be attached?

Magpul bottoms are not legal.  Neither are taped together mags or extra magazine holders attached to the rifle or magazine.  All of these fall under the "no external modifications" rule, and are therefore not allowed.

With only a small number of exceptions (i.e., hooded rear sights, and snap-on brass deflectors, and the presence/absence of flash hiders and bayonet lugs), the only legal external features are what you see in the first 4 pictures in post #13 (found on page 1) of this thread.

Hmmm, I have a RASE Stock on my RRA NM AR.. sounds like I will have to dig up the original stock for this weekend...

Quoted: Hmmm, I have a RASE Stock on my RRA NM AR.. sounds like I will have to dig up the original stock for this weekend...

Yep, that thing won't fly.  Leave your rifle as it came.

Quoted: Quoted: Hmmm, I have a RASE Stock on my RRA NM AR.. sounds like I will have to dig up the original stock for this weekend... Yep, that thing won't fly.  Leave your rifle as it came.

Actually, it came with one of those fake collapseable stocks,  the Rase Stock was what I chose to replace it with.  It was also originally a midlength upper, I bought the 20" NM upper separately.  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Hmmm, I have a RASE Stock on my RRA NM AR.. sounds like I will have to dig up the original stock for this weekend... Yep, that thing won't fly.  Leave your rifle as it came. Actually, it came with one of those fake collapseable stocks,  the Rase Stock was what I chose to replace it with.  It was also originally a midlength upper, I bought the 20" NM upper separately.

Oh, I see.  I thought you had bought a complete rifle.  In any case, you need the rifle to look like a GI A2.

Quoted: Quoted: I just read the rules (section 6.2.3) and it says only the M16A2 and M16A4, not the M16A1. It does however say you may use the M16A1 buttstock. Am I looking in the right place? You are correct. The use of the M16A1 stock is one of the very few external modifications allowed.  Other external modifications are the removal of the M16's flash hider and bayo lug to comply with laws, and the use of any finish or color on the weapon's exterior. The M16A1 itself is not an authorized service rifle for competition.  It is, however allowed as a "Match Rifle" under NRA Highpower Rules.

Okay, the M16A1 butstock is premited, the handguards prolly not,  how bout the older style M16A1 pistol grip?
The A2 grip is uncomfortable for me, unless I modifie its contours some. In fact my favorite A1 grip has been reshaped so the web of my hand is more comfortable. Nothing added and in profile hard to notice.

CMP determines what is and isn't a Service Rifle.  NRA follows CMP's lead in this regards.

It works both ways (sort of), as anything not covered by CMP rules is resolved using the NRA rulebook.

What about bull barrels?

6.2.3 doesn't mention them.
Does that mean they are not legal.