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Posted: 11/5/2004 2:48:05 PM EDT
Just got these two uppers from MSTN. 17" lightweight Krieger barrels (1:7.7"), stainless, PRI tubes with alloy barrel nuts, QC comps swappable for F/H's. BUIS will be mounted soon, of course.
Unfortunately, only one of the pair is mine.  [ link to LARGER image ] [ link to LARGER image ] [ link to LARGER image ] [ link to LARGER image ] [ link to LARGER image ] [ link to LARGER image ] [ link to LARGER image ] [ link to LARGER image ]More here: apollo.demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/MSTN-LW17/ |
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Posted: 11/5/2004 3:24:29 PM EDT
[#2]
Very nice. Is that KG on the painted one?
ETA: Do you know how much weight the alloy barrel nut saves compared to the steel one? |
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Posted: 11/5/2004 5:26:08 PM EDT
[#3]
which is yours Zak? I would guess the tan... Lemme guess, Truy rear sights inbound?
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Posted: 11/5/2004 5:30:16 PM EDT
[#4]
Zak,
Mucho props to you and MSTN. Tell us more about the uppers. -Jim |
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Posted: 11/5/2004 5:35:35 PM EDT
[#5]
Great, I just drooled on my keyboard
 Awesome rifles, the both of them. |
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Posted: 11/5/2004 7:07:17 PM EDT
[#6]
Are those the "Paul E" brakes? I like the black one. I couldn't dream of painting my TA11!
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Posted: 11/5/2004 7:24:00 PM EDT
[#7]
Oh, grow a pair! j/k  BTW, funny website you have in your sigline. |
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Posted: 11/5/2004 7:44:36 PM EDT
[#8]
Slick looking.
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Posted: 11/5/2004 8:04:12 PM EDT
[#9]
Hawkeye has a picture of us (him) painting my TA11... it was a pretty nerve wrecking experience...
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Posted: 11/5/2004 8:16:54 PM EDT
[#10]
pcurtis,
Corporal_Chaos,
Dark Earth color KG on most of it, Coyote Brown AHII on the TA11, PRI tube, and VFG. (The stock and lower are actually AHII D.T. but you can't really tell the difference.) Based on someone else's research in another thread, I believe the aluminum nut saves about 2.8 oz. new-arguy, Affirmative. The painted one is mine. The Troys front and rear are in-hand, but I'm waiting on some Norrell's Moly Resin. If I can't get a color match, I'll use more AHII. Kisara, Yes, it's the MSTN QC brake. knightone,
Indeed! Just wait til the MRP gets painted... -z |
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Posted: 11/5/2004 8:19:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Zak-Smith, you so crazy! I look forward to seeing it. |
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Posted: 11/5/2004 8:20:14 PM EDT
[#12]
Let's see.. The Kriegers are 0.700" under the handguard, and 0.740" beyond the gas block. They are surprsingly light for being 17" and a full gas system. On mine (tan), you can see the bottom rail was cut to fit and turned around for more useful VFG mounting. A bipod stud will go at the forward end. Both uppers have the Young Machine / MSTN relieved chrome bolt carrier. This barrel type and profile was chosen to be as light as possible but still retain stability and zero for long strings of aimed fired, such as experienced at the ITRC earlier this year. It ought to be soft-shooting, not lose too much velocity vs. a 18" or 20", and light and handy enough for easy carry. -z |
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Posted: 11/5/2004 8:25:38 PM EDT
[#13]
Do you have more information about this? What type of "relief" does it has, and what purpose does it serve? ETA: Your guns look so nice, and your photography is so good, I think it's about time we get a group pic of all your AR type rifles.
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Posted: 11/5/2004 8:29:09 PM EDT
[#14]
 [ link to LARGER image ]It's basically the Young N.M. carrier, with mass removed from the rear. In some cases a lighter carrier is preferrable.
Maybe, Maybe... -z |
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Posted: 11/5/2004 8:32:00 PM EDT
[#15]
So, it basically achieves the same result as the JP aluminum carrier? Let us know how it runs compared to the JP unit. |
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Posted: 11/5/2004 8:33:24 PM EDT
[#16]
It's way heavier than the JP Aluminum carrier. It's closer in weight to the JP SS b/c. -z |
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Posted: 11/5/2004 8:58:47 PM EDT
[#17]
Good lord thats nice Zakk!!!!
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Posted: 11/5/2004 9:21:30 PM EDT
[#18]
Geez Zak, what the snot do you DO for a living? you're always showing off some new toy and making the rest of us envious!
Nick |
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Posted: 11/5/2004 9:43:34 PM EDT
[#19]
I'm not married. 
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Posted: 11/5/2004 10:10:01 PM EDT
[#20]
That would do it!
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Posted: 11/5/2004 10:47:48 PM EDT
[#21]
What kind of gas block is that? |
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Posted: 11/5/2004 10:51:51 PM EDT
[#22]
PRI low profile stainless. We chose stainless so the thermal expansion rate would match the barrel more closely. |
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Posted: 11/6/2004 6:02:22 AM EDT
[#23]
What makes the barrels "light"? Have they been fluted? I don't see any mention of "light" barrels on Krieger's website.
Oh, by the way, these are 2 of the most beautiful rifles I have seen! I really like what you've done. |
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Posted: 11/6/2004 6:18:13 AM EDT
[#24]
LMAO, yeah, that'll do it....I'm pleased as can be when I can afford to buy another PIECE for a build. Very nice rifles, by the way. Nick |
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Posted: 11/6/2004 6:37:26 AM EDT
[#25]
That we had them turned down to 0.700/0.740 -z |
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Posted: 11/6/2004 7:31:40 AM EDT
[#26]
Wow...
Now THAT is what I call gun porn. If I ever decide to build a race gun, I think I'll be contacting you - too many other expenses right now. 
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Posted: 11/6/2004 12:12:21 PM EDT
[#27]
Very Nice.
 I am sure you have a good reason, so I'll ask - why 17"? |
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Posted: 11/6/2004 1:20:25 PM EDT
[#28]
What brand/model is the compensator/FS?
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Posted: 11/6/2004 2:41:07 PM EDT
[#29]
Hoped I'd never say this to another man but...Nice Pair!
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Posted: 11/6/2004 9:16:26 PM EDT
[#30]
Adam_White,
The only thing "gamey" on this gun is the comp. Replace it with a f/h and it's tacticalalicious. Paul @ MSTN did the work. Some friends and I did some flash-hider tests tonight (dark, no moon visible). The MSTN QC comp was a considerable improvement over no muzzle device, though not quite as good as an A2. bsbg,
17" is the shortest for reliable operation of a rifle length gas system. WSAR15,
As stated before, it's the MSTN QC comp. |
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Posted: 11/6/2004 9:45:12 PM EDT
[#31]
It looks to me like the middle ground between a recon rifle and an SPR. Good for short to medium range precision work, but more than capapble of doing fast, close-up work should the need arise. Very nice rig indeed. |
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Posted: 11/6/2004 10:06:06 PM EDT
[#32]
Yeah! It ought to be lighter than a recce, however. I think those are 0.8-something under the handguards. -z |
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Posted: 11/6/2004 10:07:26 PM EDT
[#33]
That sounds sweet! I was thinking of a Recce, but I may look at something like this when the time comes. |
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Posted: 11/6/2004 11:24:11 PM EDT
[#34]
Look, man, I'm *trying* to keep things civil, but you're makin' it REAL difficult...  -Troy |
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Posted: 11/6/2004 11:46:05 PM EDT
[#35]
What kind if trigger are you using in those? |
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Posted: 11/7/2004 4:38:09 AM EDT
[#36]
Zak,
Beautiful blaster Bro.....I'm guessing the one that belongs to you is the coyote gun? Can you give some more detailed info as to the muzzle flash on the MSTN comp during no light conditions? Thanks, Take care and stay safe, Jeff |
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Posted: 11/7/2004 6:11:02 AM EDT
[#37]
Yeah....I was going to ask about the guts on these. On the black one the selector looks unique. It may just look unique with the brushed aluminum finish it looks like it has. |
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Posted: 11/7/2004 8:36:26 AM EDT
[#38]
Zak,
Did the 17" barrel require any tweaking of the gas port? |
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Posted: 11/7/2004 1:38:14 PM EDT
[#39]
zak, i envy you.
good looking rifles, as always i have noticed the more im on this site the skinnier my wallet gets. |
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Posted: 11/7/2004 1:45:55 PM EDT
[#40]
Adam_White,
The triggers are JP single-stage. I guess an argument could be made that these are not "tactical." I've got a gazillion rounds through a bunch of lowers with JP SS triggers with no FCG related problems. USMC03, Yeah, mine's the coyote/tan one. Funny you should ask about the flash-- last night after our pumpkin shoot, we did some no-light flash-hider tests. There was no moon and we were out in the boonies with virtually no ambient light-- the Milky Way was clearly visible. We tested: bare muzzle, A2, Vortex, and MSTN QC with M193 and BH75gr, and also the 308 Vortex on my 6.8SPC shooting my handloads. As a rule the BH75gr had significantly less flash than the M193 when comparing the same device. A bare muzzle created a huge white fireball which blinded the shooter and obscured the target. The A2 had blue flame shoot out the end, and with small fingers upwards through the slits. Target was not obscured. The Vortex had some flame inside the tines, but the most visible component were "sparks" extending 6-12" past the tines. The MSTN QC comp had maybe 2x the flash of the A2, but it was directed to the sides. The QC comp is WAY better than a bare muzzle. In order of most to least effective, when comparing the same ammo: Vortex, A2, MSTN, bare. The BH75gr through the A2 was only a little bit worse than M193 through the Vortex. The least flash of all was the 6.8SPC handloads (2575- 2600fps) through the 308 Vortex, even less flash than BH75 through the 223 Vortex. adh, The selector is one of those stainless pieces from Oberland Arms or who-ever makes them. It's just what I had left over in the part box. Corporal_Chaos, I'm not sure if the gas hole needs to be tweaked at all. Best to ask Paul. -z |
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Posted: 11/7/2004 4:54:11 PM EDT
[#41]
Wow Zak!!! Seeing that new AR makes me want to take out a loan and call MSTN.
Remman |
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Posted: 11/7/2004 4:57:41 PM EDT
[#42]
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Posted: 11/8/2004 4:55:48 AM EDT
[#43]
Zak,
Thanks for the follow up info. I have shot the A2, Vortex, Phantom, Bare Barrel, and numerous brakes in no light and low light conditions. Semper Fi Jeff |
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Posted: 11/8/2004 5:54:17 PM EDT
[#44]
Very nice!
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Posted: 11/8/2004 6:13:08 PM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 11/8/2004 7:05:09 PM EDT
[#46]
PLEASE, explain that in more detail. We have people running m-16 carriers, H2 buffers, H3 buffers, 9mm Buffers, and all the way up to X buffers to get MORE WEIGHT. And here you are running LESS weight. Please explain, it would be greatly appreciated. Also, what is the weight of the total weapon? I hadn't found it anywhere. Thank You. Stainless |
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Posted: 11/8/2004 7:18:51 PM EDT
[#47]
I've explained it several times before on this board. Complain to management that we have no way to search the full text of the archive. Anyway, here's one of those old threads: ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=17&t=198104&page=1
In this context, both the JP Stainless "Tactical" carrier and the MSTN relieved carrier are similar in weight, but lighter than a standard carrier. The JP low-mass (aluminum) carrier is much lighter than any of them.
I don't have an accurate scale for things of this weight. Using a cheap bathroom scale yields between 8 - 8.5 lbs, with the VFG and TA11 ACOG mounted, but no magazine. -z ETA: Before anyone starts on reliability... I ran the JP SS carrier in my JP rifle at the ITRC this year. It ran perfectly for three days, 1000 rounds (550 of those in 20 minutes), over miles of hiking through stages, and lot of dust, sand, and dirt. |
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Posted: 11/8/2004 7:43:30 PM EDT
[#48]
Thanks for the info and the quick reply, I rarely make it over to the MAGAZINE FORUM, so I haden't read all that stuff.... GOOD stuff by the way.. thanks. S |
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Posted: 11/8/2004 8:48:38 PM EDT
[#49]
Very nice! Mr. Zak-Smith, how would you compare your Krieger barreled rifle with the LMT MRP rifle? I'm seriously torn between an MRP with stainless barrel, or doing a build with a Krieger. Any feedback appreciated. Thanks, Mark
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Posted: 11/8/2004 10:50:18 PM EDT
[#50]
Those are "lightweight"? Look heavier than something like a Bushmaster Superlight. Are the pencil thin under the freefloat tube or something?
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