9mm heavy buffers in a 223 are AWESOME - Page 4

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 9mm heavy buffers in a 223 are AWESOME (Page 4 of 6)

Posted: 3/16/2005 2:42:53 PM EDT

[#1]

I just received the Colt 9mm buffer and the DPMS CAR-15 Counterweight buffer from Brownells. I test fit the buffers in several AR15's that I had handy. Each buffer fit in the springs from a Colt 6721, Olympic Arms, RRA and also a Yellow Tavern replacement CAR buffer spring. They were somewhat snug in the Colt and RRA, but did not look like they would bind. Both buffers were about .780" wide. The Yellow River spring was about .800" inner dia and the Colt (well used) was about .770" inner dia. Now I just need to get out to the range for a test fire.

Posted: 3/16/2005 2:59:30 PM EDT

[#2]

The Colt spring will probably bind . You'll know for sure by pulling the charging handle back - it will stop about 1/2"-3/4" short .

Posted: 3/16/2005 3:29:44 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
The Colt spring will probably bind . You'll know for sure by pulling the charging handle back - it will stop about 1/2"-3/4" short .

Nope, does not bind when cycled by hand. The spring does compress all they way onto the buffer. Here is a pic of the DPMS buffer w/Colt spring.

Posted: 3/16/2005 4:40:04 PM EDT

[#4]

twl,

Thanks for the great info. I talked with the guys from Enidine at the SHOT Show and they were praising their hrdraulic buffer. Why didn't Sullivan and crew go with a hydraulic buffer? Doesn't the Counterpoise only use a spring?

Edit to add link.

www.enidine.com/Aerospace/PDFS/RECOILBUFFERS.pdf

Posted: 3/16/2005 5:40:21 PM EDT

[#5]

From what we've been able to determine from military testing data, and from data from other mfrs commercial products, the hydraulic buffers can't match the mechanical system reliability.

Mechanical systems don't leak, can't wear out the seals, etc.

Our parts have all been tested at Crane Naval Surface Warfare Station, for military use. Our stuff gets into the Special Ops groups, but it is typically too expensive for the gov't to buy our products for the general troops. We're sort of a "special ops supply contractor", but we also sell the same stuff to the general public. Actually, since the gov't is so slow to make changes, a fully MGI equipped AR exceeds the capabilities of anything the military is currently using. I know for a fact that my personal weapon is "higher speed" than anything in the Spec Ops groups right now.

They are testing "future modular systems" for upcoming replacements for the current weapons platform, with the XM8, FN "Super FNC", etc., and we plan to be right in the middle of that mix. Already we can offer better modularity, with faster barrel changes, and use most of the stuff(including barrels) that is already in the inventory. We just need to cut a little weight off the package, and we'll be right there. Our system costs significantly less than any other competing system in the SCAR trials, or other Advanced Individual Combat Weapon trials, and already operates in the same manual of arms, and fits existing training protocols.

Our aim is to keep the AR15/M16/M4 as the US small arm, and keep the manufacturing in the US, and not another country's weapon built elsewhere for our military forces.

Posted: 3/16/2005 8:05:17 PM EDT

[#6]

I'm a critic of the counterpoise and the adjustable gas tube. I don't like either of them. Personally think the D-fender, while a quality part (materials & design) and good upgrade for std strength extractor springs, is not necessary with a quality extra-power spring which I'd rather use (SAW's is the best down to every detail). I think the QCB system is a nice concept but mediocre in execution, good but needs improvement.

But from all my research the MGI RRB buffer is VERY reliable and not at all a hinderance to reliability. They have been run on a lot of full auto on many civvy and military rifles. They're in the sandbox and they're even built with aquatic operations in mind. That hole in the front is so it can drain quickly when using standard barrel draining procedures.

I hadn't heard of the soft roll pin, that must've been brief. The roll pin they switched to (and used for quite awhile) needs replacing around 25k rounds. Recently they switched to a spiral roll pin which should last MUCH longer. The springs are very high quality (chrome silicon?), I've never heard of them needing replacement but if you need a set MGI will send them to you.

I've used the H buffer, AAC RRB and lately the MGI RRB and I have to say I like the MGI part best. It fits just right (not loose, not tight) in a standard Colt M4/CAR spring.

My intent is not to pick a fight regarding MGI's other parts, but to illustrate the juxtaposition... I'm generally not a fan of MGI's products. So you can imagine how skeptical I was about the MGI RRB. After spending a lot of time digging and researching, I finally felt comfortable enough to plop $150 down on one and I don't regret it. One man's opinions, you decide their worth to you. Last time I checked some of the finest men & women on the planet were out securing my rights to have it so no need for flames, just sharing what I've learned objectively.

Oh and Mack Gwinn is a very nice guy and a pleasure to talk to.

Posted: 3/17/2005 8:27:16 AM EDT

[#7]

If I understand this RRB from MGI it'll fit into the A2 rifle length buffer tube it will reduce muzzle rise & it is not caliber specific. So i could use it on a DPMS LR308 & also in a 5.56 build I have underway. If this is so who sells them? Is there a website? I'm ready to spend some $$$

Posted: 3/17/2005 9:19:34 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
If I understand this RRB from MGI it'll fit into the A2 rifle length buffer tube it will reduce muzzle rise & it is not caliber specific. So i could use it on a DPMS LR308 & also in a 5.56 build I have underway. If this is so who sells them? Is there a website? I'm ready to spend some $$$

It can be used with an A2 stock, MGI supplies a spacer. Just make sure you order the rifle version so that you get the spacer with it.

That is correct it is not caliber specific. It has been used with success with .458SOCOM and .50 Beowolf, no problems. The faster ROF/more recoil the gun has, the more significant the reduction will be with the MGI RRB.

You can get them from:

MGI: www.mgimilitary.com
"twl": here on the boards
Brownells: www.brownells.com

Posted: 3/17/2005 10:02:10 AM EDT

[#9]

This sounds great, much better than Oly's pnuematic buffer. Thanks for the information.

Posted: 3/17/2005 2:47:21 PM EDT

[#10]

Do we get a ARFCOM member discount on the MGI RRB?

Posted: 3/17/2005 2:55:40 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Do we get a ARFCOM member discount on the MGI RRB?

Maybe arrange a group buy? Benificial to both parties...

Posted: 3/17/2005 3:30:19 PM EDT

[#12]

twl,
From what I've read and if I understand correctly, the MGI rifle and carbine buffer are exactly the same, only the rifle buffer comes with a spacer?

So if I want to try the MGI buffer in a rifle and a carbine, I can get the rifle version and just add or delete the spacer depending on the use?

Posted: 3/17/2005 3:31:58 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Do we get a ARFCOM member discount on the MGI RRB?

Maybe arrange a group buy? Benificial to both parties...

Great minds think alike!

You listening TWL?

Posted: 3/17/2005 5:19:54 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
twl,
From what I've read and if I understand correctly, the MGI rifle and carbine buffer are exactly the same, only the rifle buffer comes with a spacer?

So if I want to try the MGI buffer in a rifle and a carbine, I can get the rifle version and just add or delete the spacer depending on the use?

Yep and yep. But if you got the carbine version and needed the spacer I'll bet a call to MGI would net you one.

Posted: 3/18/2005 5:23:48 AM EDT

[#15]

I was away most of the day yesterday, and could not respond to the questions.
Thanks for helping with the responses!

Actually, I am the Internet Factory Rep for MGI, and any sales from me ARE from the factory, direct.
I've been working with Mack for a long time now.

I'm going to call Mack today, and see what he says about doing a "group buy" for Arfcom.

Posted: 3/18/2005 5:26:40 AM EDT

[#16]

.

Posted: 3/18/2005 5:38:43 AM EDT

[#17]

tag

Posted: 3/18/2005 5:43:33 AM EDT

[#18]

Just spoke with Mack Gwinn about the Group Buy.

He's all for it.

I have emailed the moderators for approval to post a group buy on the EE page.

All the orders will be processed for the factory by me.

The EE "Group Buy" thread will be opened as soon as I get moderator approval.

Carbine length and rifle length units will be available.
The only difference is the spacer(no price difference), so it would probably be best for everyone to buy the rifle length unit(which comes with the spacer), so that you could use it in a rifle length system with the spacer, or in a carbine length unit without the spacer. This gives maximum versatility for the system at no extra cost. But, you could order whatever you want.

Very happy to see all this interest in our RRB buffer.
Now we can all save some money, and get a great buffer too!

Tom Lyons
MGI Factory Sales Rep.

Posted: 3/18/2005 9:46:58 AM EDT

[#19]

twl, could you tell us how many cycles the springs are rated for? Never heard of them wearing out but I'm a curious person...

Posted: 3/18/2005 3:39:42 PM EDT

[#20]

Wyv3rn,
I don't know the answer to your question myself.

I'll have to inquire with Mack as to what number of rounds these units have been tested to.

I'm pretty sure that there has been testing to either 35000 or 50000 rounds, because those are our usual test procedures.

But, I'll have to ask Mack to be sure.

Posted: 3/19/2005 11:22:28 PM EDT

[#21]

I'm using the DPMS tungsten buffer along with a factory BM carbine spring. I double-checked it last night and the spring does not bind up around the buffer. That's pretty much what I expected since I've been using it for several months now without problems.

Posted: 3/21/2005 9:56:20 PM EDT

[#22]

anyone know what "N h2" means? got this buffer and have no scale. it is stamped like stated and im thinking it means h2.
also twl i im for another RRB. i got one from twl a while back for my .50 beowulf and it has helped with controlling the beast a great deal and dealing was twl was very pleasant.

thanks

Posted: 3/22/2005 11:37:04 AM EDT

[#23]

Well..... Umm... 9mm buffers are still awesome.

S

Posted: 3/22/2005 11:48:58 AM EDT

[#24]

Got my order in for the Mil-spec type II M4 stock w/heavy 9mm buffer....

because the rest of you BRD infected buggers will ensure that they are sold out in short order now that the word is out!

IBOOS

(In Before Out Of Stock)

Posted: 3/22/2005 2:27:42 PM EDT

[#25]

Sweet, got my buffer today, installed it in less than a minute. Can't wait to test it out....hopefully Saturday.

Posted: 3/23/2005 2:46:57 PM EDT

[#26]

Tried out my 9mm buffer in BM CAR. Ordered RRA 9mm buffer assembly from Eagle Firearms for $23. It worked great and had less perceived recoil with Federal AE .223 ammo. Here are some tips to get spring to fit properly:

1. Make sure roll pins are properly fitted. If one end protrudes the spring may catch. I had to drive in one pin about 1/16'.

2. Make sure the buffer surface is smooth A gentle stoning may help to remove high spots or burrs. Don't take off any unnecessary metal.

3. Grease the buffer liberallyand slid on spring. No special spring should be required, use your same buffer spring. Make sure end of spring is all the way tight against flange of buffer.

4. Compress buffer into spring to make sure it does not bind. It should slide easily, if tightly, over buffer.

Reinstall and have fun.

Posted: 3/23/2005 2:53:34 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
No special spring should be required, use your same buffer spring. Make sure end of spring is all the way tight against flange of buffer.

FYI: Many will not be able to use their same buffer spring. All buffer springs are not the same diameter. I upgraded 2 of my AR's to the 9mm buffers from H-buffers and the original springs were of no use without modification (i.e. streching them) I ordered the correct 9mm buffer springs (there is such a thing) from Pete @ Legal Transfers and they fit perfectly. Pete was the only one I found advertising a 9mm specific buffer sping. Cost was $8 each plus shipping.

Posted: 3/23/2005 4:17:24 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Quoted:
No special spring should be required, use your same buffer spring. Make sure end of spring is all the way tight against flange of buffer.

FYI: Many will not be able to use their same buffer spring. All buffer springs are not the same diameter. I upgraded 2 of my AR's to the 9mm buffers from H-buffers and the original springs were of no use without modification (i.e. streching them) I ordered the correct 9mm buffer springs (there is such a thing) from Pete @ Legal Transfers and they fit perfectly. Pete was the only one I found advertising a 9mm specific buffer sping. Cost was $8 each plus shipping.

ASA also has them, but I don't know if it's listed on their web site, I think the price is about the same.

Posted: 3/23/2005 4:20:28 PM EDT

[#29]

Tag.

Posted: 3/23/2005 5:23:39 PM EDT

[#30]

Maybe I missed something here but has anyone tried using a 9mm buffer with a 20" bbl AR w/collapsible stock? Just curious.

Posted: 3/23/2005 5:27:52 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Maybe I missed something here but has anyone tried using a 9mm buffer with a 20" bbl AR w/collapsible stock? Just curious.

Don't see why it would not work fine.

Posted: 3/23/2005 5:41:44 PM EDT

[#32]

Where the 9mm buffer is the same legnth as a carbine one wouldnt using it in a full size rifle cause the carrier to go back into the tube too far and let thecarrier key smash the lower receiver at the top near the tube?dosent sound like a good idea,9mm buffers and full size buffers are the same weight maybe a little more for the 9mm but legnth does play a role.The full size has a longer tube therfore needing a longer buffer,heavy wont eliminate carrier over travel.The buffer has a plastic end on it for a reason..to hit against the rear inside of the tube to help with the carrier return.Ahhhh should have read more carefully...it should work fine in any rifle as long as its a telestock thats used,that combined with the 20"s longer gas system should be fine maybe even lessen the beating a shorter gas system causes.

Posted: 3/23/2005 5:49:06 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Maybe I missed something here but has anyone tried using a 9mm buffer with a 20" bbl AR w/collapsible stock? Just curious.

Don't see why it would not work fine.

He stipulated with a collapsible stock.

Posted: 3/23/2005 6:05:27 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Where the 9mm buffer is the same legnth as a carbine one wouldnt using it in a full size rifle cause the carrier to go back into the tube too far and let thecarrier key smash the lower receiver at the top near the tube?dosent sound like a good idea,9mm buffers and full size buffers are the same weight maybe a little more for the 9mm but legnth does play a role.The full size has a longer tube therfore needing a longer buffer,heavy wont eliminate carrier over travel.The buffer has a plastic end on it for a reason..to hit against the rear inside of the tube to help with the carrier return.Ahhhh should have read more carefully...it should work fine in any rifle as long as its a telestock thats used,that combined with the 20"s longer gas system should be fine maybe even lessen the beating a shorter gas system causes.

My concern would be that it would have less pressure than a carbine and might have a problem cycling with some ammo. I'm not really well versed in all of the "buffer voodoo". I was going to order a few small parts so I figured I would get a 9mm buffer or two while I was at it. I could always try the 9mm buffer I have in my 9mm carbine I suppose but I won't be able to get to the ranch for a couple of weeks. I would also like to order it with other things to save on shipping.

Posted: 3/24/2005 5:41:04 AM EDT

[#35]

If I can break away and do some shooting I'll try my 9mm RRA with a 20" Gov't upper I have. If I do I'll post here for follow-on.

Posted: 3/24/2005 5:44:17 AM EDT

[#36]

I used my 14.5 MRP with a Colt 9mm buffer, I am very impressed, less muzzle rise, smoother operation.Zero malfunctions.

Posted: 3/24/2005 5:58:13 AM EDT

[#37]

.

Posted: 3/24/2005 6:08:31 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Just spoke with Mack Gwinn about the Group Buy.

He's all for it.

I have emailed the moderators for approval to post a group buy on the EE page.

All the orders will be processed for the factory by me.

The EE "Group Buy" thread will be opened as soon as I get moderator approval.

Carbine length and rifle length units will be available.
The only difference is the spacer(no price difference), so it would probably be best for everyone to buy the rifle length unit(which comes with the spacer), so that you could use it in a rifle length system with the spacer, or in a carbine length unit without the spacer. This gives maximum versatility for the system at no extra cost. But, you could order whatever you want.

Very happy to see all this interest in our RRB buffer.
Now we can all save some money, and get a great buffer too!

Tom Lyons
MGI Factory Sales Rep.

Any word on the group buy? I didn't see anything over on the EE

Posted: 3/24/2005 6:09:11 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
Maybe I missed something here but has anyone tried using a 9mm buffer with a 20" bbl AR w/collapsible stock? Just curious.

I have tried it and it works great.

Posted: 3/24/2005 6:12:25 AM EDT

[#40]

I have been using 160 grams/ 5.66 oz steel buffer on my M4 and works fine but I´m one of those "wanna try it myself"-guys, I made one 9mm steel buffer at work today. It weighs 163 grams/ 5.76 oz. I´ll let you know the results after weekend if I have time to test it.
Diameter of the buffer body is .7618" up to thicker part which diameter is .7854". Flange diameter is .9822".
Length is same as standard carbine buffer.

I believe 5.76 oz is the heaviest buffer can be made from solid steel without increasing diameter which in turn affects negatively to reliability.

MN

Posted: 3/24/2005 6:33:57 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Maybe I missed something here but has anyone tried using a 9mm buffer with a 20" bbl AR w/collapsible stock? Just curious.

I have tried it and it works great.

home.earthlink.net/~martinmayhem/images/DSC01925.JPG

Excellent. Thank you for the confirmation. Now I'm trying to figure out if I need to re-time my buffer tubes before I try using a heavier buffer.

Posted: 3/24/2005 6:44:05 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Maybe I missed something here but has anyone tried using a 9mm buffer with a 20" bbl AR w/collapsible stock? Just curious.

I have tried it and it works great.

home.earthlink.net/~martinmayhem/images/DSC01925.JPG
Excellent. Thank you for the confirmation. Now I'm trying to figure out if I need to re-time my buffer tubes before I try using a heavier buffer.

How do you time a buffer tube? I didn't realize there was anything you could adjust

Posted: 3/24/2005 6:46:19 AM EDT

[#43]

Can the same effect be accomplished by just removing the polymer bumper at the end of a standard CAR buffer, removing the little weights that are inside and replacing them with heavier weights (lead) to get the weight up to the 5.5 ounce range?

Or does the 2-piece design of the 5.5 ounce 9mm buffer offer some kind of advantage?

Posted: 3/24/2005 6:56:56 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
How do you time a buffer tube? I didn't realize there was anything you could adjust

I have Magpul stocks on all of my ARs so timing them correctly is a bit more work since I don't have Colt lowers. I recently destroyed a buffer retainer pin and spring because I didn't time the tube correctly. The rifle in question functioned fine and I didn't even notice the problem until I got home and went to clean it. I've spoken w/Richard at Magpul about my problem and he's helping me out.

Posted: 3/24/2005 7:10:21 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Can the same effect be accomplished by just removing the polymer bumper at the end of a standard CAR buffer, removing the little weights that are inside and replacing them with heavier weights (lead) to get the weight up to the 5.5 ounce range?

You can get up to H buffer weight with lead weights but no further, I have tried that.

MN

Posted: 3/24/2005 8:04:25 AM EDT

[#46]

(tag)

-LS

Posted: 3/24/2005 1:05:14 PM EDT

[#47]

I bit the bullet and ordered a pair of 9mm buffers from ADCO. At least this will be an inexpensive "trend" to follow.

Posted: 3/24/2005 1:08:49 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
I bit the bullet and ordered a pair of 9mm buffers from ADCO. At least this will be an inexpensive "trend" to follow.

lol...enjoy it while it lasted.

Posted: 3/24/2005 2:24:24 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Can the same effect be accomplished by just removing the polymer bumper at the end of a standard CAR buffer, removing the little weights that are inside and replacing them with heavier weights (lead) to get the weight up to the 5.5 ounce range?

You can get up to H buffer weight with lead weights but no further, I have tried that.

MN

I took 2H and added a tungsten weight to make a 3h, now all internal three weights are tungsten. It is heavier than a standard steel 9mm buffer.

Posted: 3/24/2005 5:01:44 PM EDT

[#50]

Desert Rat,

I have emailed 2 AR15.com Moderators for permission to make a group buy for the MGI RRB buffers on the EE. This was done days ago.

I have received no response from either of them.

According to the "Group Buy Rules" I MUST obtain moderator permission before proceeding.

As soon as I get moderator permission, I will post the Group Buy immediately.

I'm really wanting to do this right away.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 9mm heavy buffers in a 223 are AWESOME (Page 4 of 6)

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