Realizing that you've only shot 400 rounds through this gun (I did that in one weekend with my SBR he
FWIW, I have been considering a move like this for my own CAR-15 or SBR (LMT 10.5" upper).

TIA.

Quoted: Realizing that you've only shot 400 rounds through this gun (I did that in one weekend with my SBR ); do you recommend the conversion unit?  Also, is it possible for you to convert your gun back to the original gas impingement system if you choose to? FWIW, I have been considering a move like this for my own CAR-15 or SBR (LMT 10.5" upper). TIA.

That is the beauty of the system, Just pop out the Gas tube pin, Remove the GSR-35  system parts & reinstall your DI carrier & gas tube in the normal manner,
You can have your DI AR back in less than 5 minutes!

Just to keep you guys informed my GSR-35 kit arrived at Metaloy Ind. to be hard chrome plated today, As soon as I get it back I will post photos.
I can't wait to get it back!!

Easily converted back.  Just remove gas tube pin, remove spigot, remove op-rod, replace carrier and you are good to go.

Quoted: Realizing that you've only shot 400 rounds through this gun (I did that in one weekend with my SBR ); do you recommend the conversion unit?  Also, is it possible for you to convert your gun back to the original gas impingement system if you choose to? FWIW, I have been considering a move like this for my own CAR-15 or SBR (LMT 10.5" upper). TIA.

One of the attractive aspects of the Ares unit is that you can easily convert back to the DI system if you so desire with no adverse affect to your weapon (and then use the Ares unit to convert another DI system to the piston system if you like.)  It's too soon for me to make recomendations for the system.  For example, I perceived the handguards heating up quicker with the Ares system in my recent test session.  I don't know what affect, if any, this will have during extended shooting sessions or long term usage.  For my next test session I plan to put a lot more rounds downrange in one outing.

I will tell you this, I definitely like the decreased fouling in the receivers and bolt carrier group.   Also, while there may be a slight decrease in accuracy when using the Ares system, the accuracy is still more than adequate for my intended use.  In the last test session I fired the 10-shot group pictured below from 50 yards in an informal accuracy check, using handloaded 55 grain V-MAX bullets. The group measures 0.632".  While not minute of angle, it is certainly good enough for "government work."

Quoted: Quoted: Realizing that you've only shot 400 rounds through this gun (I did that in one weekend with my SBR ); do you recommend the conversion unit?  Also, is it possible for you to convert your gun back to the original gas impingement system if you choose to? FWIW, I have been considering a move like this for my own CAR-15 or SBR (LMT 10.5" upper). TIA. One of the attractive aspects of the Ares unit is that you can easily convert back to the DI system if you so desire with no adverse affect to your weapon (and then use the Ares unit to convert another DI system to the piston system if you like.)  It's too soon for me to make recomendations for the system.  For example, I perceived the handguards heating up quicker with the Ares system in my recent test session.  I don't know what affect, if any, this will have during extended shooting sessions or long term usage.  For my next test session I plan to put a lot more rounds downrange in one outing. I will tell you this, I definitely like the decreased fouling in the receivers and bolt carrier group.   Also, while there may be a slight decrease in accuracy when using the Ares system, the accuracy is still more than adequate for my intended use.  In the last test session I fired the 10-shot group pictured below from 50 yards in an informal accuracy check, using handloaded 55 grain V-MAX bullets. The group measures 0.632".  While not minute of angle, it is certainly good enough for "government work." www.box.net/shared/static/5m8tvj1pyq.jpg

Makes perfect sense why the front top of the handguards get hotter faster with the piston setup.  It is b/c the system vents excess gas out the two or four ports (depending on which kit you have).  I usually grip the front of the magwell so I have no problems.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Realizing that you've only shot 400 rounds through this gun (I did that in one weekend with my SBR ); do you recommend the conversion unit?  Also, is it possible for you to convert your gun back to the original gas impingement system if you choose to? FWIW, I have been considering a move like this for my own CAR-15 or SBR (LMT 10.5" upper). TIA. One of the attractive aspects of the Ares unit is that you can easily convert back to the DI system if you so desire with no adverse affect to your weapon (and then use the Ares unit to convert another DI system to the piston system if you like.)  It's too soon for me to make recomendations for the system.  For example, I perceived the handguards heating up quicker with the Ares system in my recent test session.  I don't know what affect, if any, this will have during extended shooting sessions or long term usage.  For my next test session I plan to put a lot more rounds downrange in one outing. I will tell you this, I definitely like the decreased fouling in the receivers and bolt carrier group.   Also, while there may be a slight decrease in accuracy when using the Ares system, the accuracy is still more than adequate for my intended use.  In the last test session I fired the 10-shot group pictured below from 50 yards in an informal accuracy check, using handloaded 55 grain V-MAX bullets. The group measures 0.632".  While not minute of angle, it is certainly good enough for "government work." www.box.net/shared/static/5m8tvj1pyq.jpg Makes perfect sense why the front top of the handguards get hotter faster with the piston setup.  It is b/c the system vents excess gas out the two or four ports (depending on which kit you have).  I usually grip the front of the magwell so I have no problems.

Right.  The question is, will this possible increased heat build up in this area have an affect on function/accuracy/long term usage?

Quoted: Just to keep you guys informed my GSR-35 kit arrived at Metaloy Ind. to be hard chrome plated today, As soon as I get it back I will post photos. I can't wait to get it back!!

I am VERY interested in how that turns out. How much will it cost? Turnaround time? How are they going to address tolerance issues?

I have just installed my SECOND Ares unit (one on an M4gery and the latest on a CAR-type carbine). Although I only have a couple hundred rounds combined through them there has not been one malfunction---even in the proverbial "break-in" period. Lucky I guess.

Quoted: Easily converted back.  Just remove gas tube pin, remove spigot, remove op-rod, replace carrier and you are good to go.

You also have to put the gas rings back on the bolt when converting back to DI.

Well, Mine failed today.

Took out my 11.5" AR out today for the third time with the ARES Kit installed, and halfway through the first mag, it started firing "single shot"
Disassembled and found the piston broken out of the assembly that mounts in the front sight base/gas block.
It appears the the cylinder, which threads in, was over-tightened and finally failed. The rifle has about 500-600 rounds through it with the ARES kit.
See link for pictures.

I'm contacting ARES and my Vendor first thing tomorrow.


Link

Quoted: Well, Mine failed today. Took out my 11.5" AR out today for the third time with the ARES Kit installed, and halfway through the first mag, it started firing "single shot" Disassembled and found the piston broken out of the assembly that mounts in the front sight base/gas block. It appears the the cylinder, which threads in, was over-tightened and finally failed. The rifle has about 500-600 rounds through it with the ARES kit. See link for pictures. I'm contacting ARES and my Vendor first thing tomorrow. Link

Wow!  That's quite disheartening.  This puts quite a damper on my confidence in the system.  Be sure to let us know what Ares has to say about this.

(I resized your pics for those with dial-up.)

Quoted: Well, Mine failed today. Took out my 11.5" AR out today for the third time with the ARES Kit installed, and halfway through the first mag, it started firing "single shot" Disassembled and found the piston broken out of the assembly that mounts in the front sight base/gas block. It appears the the cylinder, which threads in, was over-tightened and finally failed. The rifle has about 500-600 rounds through it with the ARES kit. See link for pictures. I'm contacting ARES and my Vendor first thing tomorrow. Link

was your kit installed on a full-auto AR15, Punani?

Not that that would be dismissing the failure, but may put it in a different light. In fact, FA shooting can reveal issues that SA cannot.

Quoted: Quoted: Well, Mine failed today. Took out my 11.5" AR out today for the third time with the ARES Kit installed, and halfway through the first mag, it started firing "single shot" Disassembled and found the piston broken out of the assembly that mounts in the front sight base/gas block. It appears the the cylinder, which threads in, was over-tightened and finally failed. The rifle has about 500-600 rounds through it with the ARES kit. See link for pictures. I'm contacting ARES and my Vendor first thing tomorrow. Link was your kit installed on a full-auto AR15, Punani? Not that that would be dismissing the failure, but may put it in a different light. In fact, FA shooting can reveal issues that SA cannot.

No. Forgot to add, *NOT* full auto.

Maybe its the same type of problem L&W had when the original designed spigots began to crack and they had to do to a larger diameter one and the problem stopped.And on top of that I would start chrome platinf beariung surfaces of the system as well as the portion of the push rod that operates in the gas cylinder.To Punami even though what happened sucks it proves the worth of a drop in system in this respect...you can convert right back to DI and the upper wont have to go back to the manufacturer putting your weapon off line and out of use.Maybe ARES should make the spigot and cylinder all one piece and chrome it inside and out.

Quoted: ARES should make the spigot and cylinder all one piece and chrome it inside and out.

+1, Exactly what I thought the first time I handled one.

height=8

Quoted: Well, Mine failed today. Took out my 11.5" AR out today for the third time with the ARES Kit installed, and halfway through the first mag, it started firing "single shot" Disassembled and found the piston broken out of the assembly that mounts in the front sight base/gas block. It appears the the cylinder, which threads in, was over-tightened and finally failed. The rifle has about 500-600 rounds through it with the ARES kit. See link for pictures. I'm contacting ARES and my Vendor first thing tomorrow. hinking.gif

Now this sucks!!  I'm waiting delivery of my kit too.  What type of shooting were you doing when it failed?  Please make sure to let us know wha ARES says.  I'm gonna hold off installing the kit until we find out what the deal is.  Good luck!!

Hmm.  This was looking very promising to me until I got to this.  Anyone here from Ares?   Isolated or design?

Quoted: Maybe its the same type of problem L&W had when the original designed spigots began to crack and they had to do to a larger diameter one and the problem stopped.And on top of that I would start chrome platinf beariung surfaces of the system as well as the portion of the push rod that operates in the gas cylinder.To Punami even though what happened sucks it proves the worth of a drop in system in this respect...you can convert right back to DI and the upper wont have to go back to the manufacturer putting your weapon off line and out of use.Maybe ARES should make the spigot and cylinder all one piece and chrome it inside and out.

True. The only thing I ran into was that I had a hard time getting a gas-tube back in the receiver through the bushing. That's when I called quits.
And Spigot was the word I was looking for...thanks

This discussion has to be the best and most informative thread I've seen here in a long time....my hats off to everyone involved.....

OK....


If you check out the troubleshooting forum, you'll see that my POF upper's push rod broke during semi auto firing.

Maybe piston uppers aren't all they are cracked up to be???????

Just sayin
.........

Quoted: OK.... If you check out the troubleshooting forum, you'll see that my POF upper's push rod broke during semi auto firing. Maybe piston uppers aren't all they are cracked up to be??????? Just sayin .........

And you may very well be right, but the only way we find these things out is by testing.  Here's a quote from my first post in this thread:

Proponents of the gas piston system for the AR-15 claim it is more reliable than the direct impingement system, (which seems rather ironic since the gas piston system not only adds more parts to the overall system, but adds more moving parts as well.)

ETA: Quoting myself

Quoted: Quoted: OK.... If you check out the troubleshooting forum, you'll see that my POF upper's push rod broke during semi auto firing. Maybe piston uppers aren't all they are cracked up to be??????? Just sayin ......... And you may very well be right, but the only way we find these things out is by testing.  Here's a quote from my first post in this thread: Proponents of the gas piston system for the AR-15 claim it is more reliable than the direct impingement system, (which seems rather ironic since the gas piston system not only adds more parts to the overall system, but adds more moving parts as well.) ETA: Quoting myself

Yeah, "More moving parts to make it more reliable" are 2 things that contradict each other 99% of the time.

Show me the failures with the LWRC piston system...  just because two piston systems have more parts are break does not mean that piston systems cannot be more reliable.  Our cars are a perfect example.  You have more parts in your modern fuel injected cars, yet they are more reliable than older cars with a carb.

This is also a great example of why being designed to return to DI is a BAD idea.  The ability to to return to DI is the root cause of the failure.  When LWRC shifted away from stock FSB they improved the reliability of the system.  They dont have failures like this.

Yes, this is disheartening news.

I have two Ares systems installed and an early Leitner-Wise conversion. So far no problems but I don't have thousands of rounds downrange either (yet). I'm hoping that this is an isolated incident.

IIRC someone who bought an Ares already has over a thousand rounds through it with no problems, but I can't remember who. It was in one of these Ares threads.

God, I hope it's isolated.........

Still no response from ARES or the dealer (here on ARFCOM).
Did get read-receipt from ARFCOM dealer this morning.
Both emails sent at 8am est.

I dont think the failure can be attributed to the system being drop in or the use of a regular FSB until it goes back to ARES to see why it failed...denny has asystem with far more rounds through with no problems..could be QC,could be because its not 1 piece...why it failed remains to be seen.I think a 1 piece cylinder should do the trick or maybe it was bad material used in its construction.

Quoted: OK.... If you check out the troubleshooting forum, you'll see that my POF upper's push rod broke during semi auto firing. Maybe piston uppers aren't all they are cracked up to be??????? Just sayin .........

Or more likely there was a defect in those specific parts. How many bolt failures have we heard of on DI guns? How many are in Pat Rogers' book?

As for adding more parts, my POF upper has fewer operating parts than a DI gun. No gas rings, no gas tube, no gas key. Just a piston and push rod.

Quoted: Quoted: Still no response from ARES or the dealer (here on ARFCOM). Did get read-receipt from ARFCOM dealer this morning. Both emails sent at 8am est. If the dealer is Denny he was out of shop for about a week and just got back this morning. I would call him, not e-mail, he probably has 10 gazillion e-mails from his first vacation in years.

No it wasn't Denny. I didn't order it from him for that very reason, couldn't get a hold of anybody. Email/Phone messages went unreturned, to this day. And this was 4 weeks ago.

not be an apologist for ares but this is the first iteration of their product and in manufacturing you know you are always going to get a few duds during production that the QC doesn't catch. It doesn't necessarily mean the design or anything is flawed and it could be due to many factors.

That said it will be up to Ares now to make good with the way they deal with your problem. Hopefully they'll be attentive to you.

Quoted: Still no response from ARES or the dealer (here on ARFCOM). Did get read-receipt from ARFCOM dealer this morning. Both emails sent at 8am est.

Any word from Ares yet?  Even if a company makes a great product, poor customer service will make me think long and hard about buying another one of their products.

Quoted: Quoted: Still no response from ARES or the dealer (here on ARFCOM). Did get read-receipt from ARFCOM dealer this morning. Both emails sent at 8am est. Any word from Ares yet?  Even if a company makes a great product, poor customer service will make me think long and hard about buying another one of their products.

OK, Literally *just* got off the phone with Ares, I had called and left a message this morning. I had talked with Paul at PK Firearms, where I had bought the kit, on Tuesday, and we decided to wait until Jeff from Ares would contact either one of us.
So I guess Paul talked to Jeff, and Jeff called me. (He said he was out of town for business, and just got back.)

He apologized for his product breaking, but he said that they stand behind it and that they will send me a new set once I send mine in. I decided to only send in the Spigot, Cylinder and Piston, since there is no sense  in replacing the carrier, there's nothing wrong with it.

Both Paul and Jeff mentioned that I was the second one that had one break, the first one was a guy that had the kit installed for about half an hour. He had the typical break-in issues, and called back 10 minutes later claiming it broke. I'm not sure if it actually failed or if he broke it, if you know what I mean.

Jeff suspected that my failure is probably related to a heat treatment issue, resulting in brittle material. But again, he assured me that they stand 100% behind their product and that they will take care of it.

So far so good, I'm shipping the stuff out in the morning, Jeff seems like a decent guy.
Kudos to Paul at PK Firearms for taking care of this issue with both me and Ares.  

It will be interesting to see if other kits will also break due to heat treatment issues, I mean, are we talking one or two or a whole batch? Time will tell.

tag fo lator

Shit, I hope it isn't a "whole batch" issue. I've got two of them!

Quoted: ...So far so good, I'm shipping the stuff out in the morning, Jeff seems like a decent guy. Kudos to Paul at PK Firearms for taking care of this issue with both me and Ares.   It will be interesting to see if other kits will also break due to heat treatment issues, I mean, are we talking one or two or a whole batch? Time will tell.

This makes me feel a lot better because I also purchased mine from PK Firearms.  The only problem I've run into so far is getting my gas tube out and trying to get the roll pin into the FSB.  I "mushroomed" two of them when the spring tension put the spigot askew and the roll pin holes were not exactly aligned.  I have since figured out a way to pull bacl the rod's spring tension so that this is no longer the case.  I plan on test firing my SBR tomorrow (time permitting).

Anything man-made can andd will break.  As long as ARES stands behind their product and provides decent customer service, I won't be too disapointed as long as there is no chronic  failures with their product.

I will post my findings once I get a couple of hundred rounds through the rifle.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Still no response from ARES or the dealer (here on ARFCOM). Did get read-receipt from ARFCOM dealer this morning. Both emails sent at 8am est. Any word from Ares yet?  Even if a company makes a great product, poor customer service will make me think long and hard about buying another one of their products. OK, Literally *just* got off the phone with Ares, I had called and left a message this morning. I had talked with Paul at PK Firearms, where I had bought the kit, on Tuesday, and we decided to wait until Jeff from Ares would contact either one of us. So I guess Paul talked to Jeff, and Jeff called me. (He said he was out of town for business, and just got back.) He apologized for his product breaking, but he said that they stand behind it and that they will send me a new set once I send mine in. I decided to only send in the Spigot, Cylinder and Piston, since there is no sense  in replacing the carrier, there's nothing wrong with it. Both Paul and Jeff mentioned that I was the second one that had one break, the first one was a guy that had the kit installed for about half an hour. He had the typical break-in issues, and called back 10 minutes later claiming it broke. I'm not sure if it actually failed or if he broke it, if you know what I mean. Jeff suspected that my failure is probably related to a heat treatment issue, resulting in brittle material. But again, he assured me that they stand 100% behind their product and that they will take care of it. So far so good, I'm shipping the stuff out in the morning, Jeff seems like a decent guy. Kudos to Paul at PK Firearms for taking care of this issue with both me and Ares.   It will be interesting to see if other kits will also break due to heat treatment issues, I mean, are we talking one or two or a whole batch? Time will tell.

That's what I like to hear.

Quoted: Quoted: ...So far so good, I'm shipping the stuff out in the morning, Jeff seems like a decent guy. Kudos to Paul at PK Firearms for taking care of this issue with both me and Ares.   It will be interesting to see if other kits will also break due to heat treatment issues, I mean, are we talking one or two or a whole batch? Time will tell. This makes me feel a lot better because I also purchased mine from PK Firearms.  The only problem I've run into so far is getting my gas tube out and trying to get the roll pin into the FSB.  I "mushroomed" two of them when the spring tension put the spigot askew and the roll pin holes were not exactly aligned.  I have since figured out a way to pull bacl the rod's spring tension so that this is no longer the case.  I plan on test firing my SBR tomorrow (time permitting). Anything man-made can andd will break.  As long as ARES stands behind their product and provides decent customer service, I won't be too disapointed as long as there is no chronic  failures with their product. I will post my findings once I get a couple of hundred rounds through the rifle.

Great!  The more people we get posting their findings with this product, the better picture we are going to get of its viability.

hisI am a machinist by trade and understand the issues of heat treating a part like the gas cylinder.  It is hollow, thin walled, and necks down to a fairly sharp corner on the threaded end. This would be the achilles heel of the system.  The most likely place to break would and usually is at this intersection.   Not that this is bad.  Heat treat is very controllable if done by the right person.  Most systems are electrically or computer controlled anyways. Not ol Joe watching his clock between smokes.  

A one piece system would solve the problem, just more expensive to make.  Why?
As they are made now if you bore the gas cylinder oversize then you just chuck one part that is easily made in the lathe. To make it one piece the offset spigot/cylinder would require a few more manufacturing operations, having to work it from both ends. making for one expensive piece of scrap that took longer to make.

Part are parts.  Even with more pieces I would and will buy a system.

Quoted: Fantastic write up Molon.  I was wondering about this system. Hate gas in the eyes like everyone else. I am a machinist by trade and understand the issues of heat treating a part like the gas cylinder.  It is hollow, thin walled, and necks down to a fairly sharp corner on the threaded end. This would be the achilles heel of the system.  The most likely place to break would and usually is at this intersection.   Not that this is bad.  Heat treat is very controllable if done by the right person.  Most systems are electrically or computer controlled anyways. Not ol Joe watching his clock between smokes.   A one piece system would solve the problem, just more expensive to make.  Why? As they are made now if you bore the gas cylinder oversize then you just chuck one part that is easily made in the lathe. To make it one piece the offset spigot/cylinder would require a few more manufacturing operations, having to work it from both ends. making for one expensive piece of scrap that took longer to make. Part are parts.  Even with more pieces I would and will buy a system.

Is it feasible to weld/braze/Hi-temp solder the 2 parts together ?

If not what would it cost to have a machinist Make a few one piece jobs for personal use?

Ok, this is JUST A THOUGHT.... I'm basing this on what I've seen here with the ARES system, as I have not personally seen the ARES system.


I used to own an AR180B for awhile.  I loved it.  The only reason I sold it was that I lost confidence in the poly lower.  That's not the point..

..The point is, the short-stroke gas & tappet system of the AR180B is almost identical to the Ares.


One difference (aside from the 90 degree crook in the housing in the Ares) I noticed:

The piston sleeve's stem is threaded (where it broke in those pictures) in the ARES, where the AR180B's piston sleeve stem is all smooth.


How does it work, you ask, without threads?



Simple physics.  The Piston Sleeve and piston are 3 pieces on the AR180B.  The Shaft, the middle "coupler/spacer" and the "Piston Sleeve".  

On one end you have the spring, keeping the whole piston assembly pressed forward against the piston/spigot housing.  The other end, when a round is fired, the gasses force the entire piston assembly rearward.  

While if you pull the two outer ends of the piston assembly apart (the rod and the sleeve), the middle "copuler/spacer" would be able to be pulled out.



In my opinion, the threading is not necessary, and only adds to the issue of breakage.  


If they can make it work with the old AR18 gas system, which the patent has run out, I think ARES can simplify their system.


Removing the threading on the stem of the piston sleeve would decrease both the likelyhood of failure (of that component) and decrease the manufacturing cost.



Just my opinion on it.

have
With the possiblity of a canted FSB and the spigot offset it would be hard to keep the pieces together. Sounds like it should but there is some side loading going on that would take a few physics lectures to fully explain, never mind understanding it all.

Yeah one could have a machinist make one for you, but at what cost. I know that I dont have extra piston systems lying around for a machinist to copy. If I did I would have made a few by now. Isn't this the reason we buy our stuff made by someone else?

Wouldn't the possibility of a slightly canted FSB increase the likelihood of this type of breakage? If it's canted you'll have uneven slamming as the piston returns home. Just a thought.

Molon for Presdent!!!

Great review!!!  

AC

Well, I finally go to test my G35 which I purchased from PK Firearms last week (excellent service).  I installed it on my SBR which has a10.5" LMT upper last night.

I loaded my Cmag drum with 80-rounds and two coupled mags with 28-rounds each.  I started with the drum and ripped off all the rounds as fast as I can pull the trigger.  I then dropped it once it was empty and loaded the coupled mags.  I fired off the first one with no issues until I was mostly through the first mag when I esperienced an FTF.  I thought that mag was empty so I switched to the other one but was surprised that a live round fell out of the mag well and I still had about 3 to 5 rounds rounds in that mag.

So I put that mag back in, racked the bolt (the fact that the bolt was held back should have been a clue) and went through the rest of it until the bolt locked back.  I switched to thre second mag and started experiencing FTFs after about every 3 to 5 shots.  In most of the case, the bolt would stop right over the next round.

Since the gunran fine through the drum and the first mag, I thought it may be a mag issue.  So I loaded the coupled mags again (28-rounds on the first mag and 22-rounds in the seond one).  I ripped through the first mag without a hitch then started experiencing the FTFs on the seond one.  So I was releived because it looked like it was mag specific so I moved to the zeroing bench.

I figured that since I was only going to (slow) fire 3-rounds at a time, I should be okay using the second mag.  Nothing doing.  So i unloaded that and started using the first mag.  FTFs on every shot.  So I tried the  drum again - same result.  Finally, I tried a 3rd 30-round mag with the same results.

Basically, the gun is short-stroking for whatever reason.  Upon close inpsection, the bolt and the chamber area was full of shiny metal shards which was making it hard for me to even eject a chambered round by hand.  At first I thought it was brass from the cases.  But it looked more like half-moon pieced from either bushing or the rod.  I will not know for sure until I take a closer look when I get home and remove the components and the shards

The gas-piston is supposed to eliminate the fouling of the bolt and chamber area which can lead to malfunctions.  It sounded to me like a great idea until I realized that any dirt or impediments to the piston or the pushrod can result in in the same.  I am currently not convinced that this was a wise investment or something I would recommend to anyone.  But I will reserve judgement until I take a closer look at the fouling and talk to someone at Ares (probably on Monday).  For the record, I dove into this out of sheer curiousity and because I like tinkering.  So stand by to stand by.

However, right now I do not have the confidence to leave the kit installed on this rifle.  I will try it with my spare rifle (which is currently sporting a .22 sub-caliber kit) and I will return the SBR back to a DI configuration.  We shall see if I can make this kit work there.

What type ammo?  I ask because some have had issues with underpowered or different pressuer curve ammo.  Hope it works out for you.

Quoted: Well, I finally go to test my G35 which I purchased from PK Firearms last week (excellent service).  I installed it on my SBR which has a10.5" LMT upper last night. I loaded my Cmag drum with 80-rounds and two coupled mags with 28-rounds each.  I started with the drum and ripped off all the rounds as fast as I can pull the trigger.  I then dropped it once it was empty and loaded the coupled mags.  I fired off the first one with no issues until I was mostly through the first mag when I esperienced an FTF.  I thought that mag was empty so I switched to the other one but was surprised that a live round fell out of the mag well and I still had about 3 to 5 rounds rounds in that mag. So I put that mag back in, racked the bolt (the fact that the bolt was held back should have been a clue) and went through the rest of it until the bolt locked back.  I switched to thre second mag and started experiencing FTFs after about every 3 to 5 shots.  In most of the case, the bolt would stop right over the next round. Since the gunran fine through the drum and the first mag, I thought it may be a mag issue.  So I loaded the coupled mags again (28-rounds on the first mag and 22-rounds in the seond one).  I ripped through the first mag without a hitch then started experiencing the FTFs on the seond one.  So I was releived because it looked like it was mag specific so I moved to the zeroing bench. I figured that since I was only going to (slow) fire 3-rounds at a time, I should be okay using the second mag.  Nothing doing.  So i unloaded that and started using the first mag.  FTFs on every shot.  So I tried the  drum again - same result.  Finally, I tried a 3rd 30-round mag with the same results. Basically, the gun is short-stroking for whatever reason.  Upon close inpsection, the bolt and the chamber area was full of shiny metal shards which was making it hard for me to even eject a chambered round by hand.  At first I thought it was brass from the cases.  But it looked more like half-moon pieced from either bushing or the rod.  I will not know for sure until I take a closer look when I get home and remove the components and the shards The gas-piston is supposed to eliminate the fouling of the bolt and chamber area which can lead to malfunctions.  It sounded to me like a great idea until I realized that any dirt or impediments to the piston or the pushrod can result in in the same.  I am currently not convinced that this was a wise investment or something I would recommend to anyone.  But I will reserve judgement until I take a closer look at the fouling and talk to someone at Ares (probably on Monday).  For the record, I dove into this out of sheer curiousity and because I like tinkering.  So stand by to stand by. However, right now I do not have the confidence to leave the kit installed on this rifle.  I will try it with my spare rifle (which is currently sporting a .22 sub-caliber kit) and I will return the SBR back to a DI configuration.  We shall see if I can make this kit work there.

Mine short stroked like crazy with Wolf.  I am still debating how to "make" it work with Wolf as shooting the good stuff in F/A gets expensive very fast.

Quoted: What type ammo?  I ask because some have had issues with underpowered or different pressuer curve ammo.  Hope it works out for you.

Goergia Arms "Heat" 55-grain and UMC 55-grain MC.  Unfortunately, I don't think it's the ammo because it ran fine for the first 90+ rounds without a hitch.

I also notice that the top handguard was making contact with the spigot assembly.

Quoted: Quoted: What type ammo?  I ask because some have had issues with underpowered or different pressuer curve ammo.  Hope it works out for you. Goergia Arms "Heat" 55-grain and UMC 55-grain MC.  Unfortunately, I don't think it's the ammo because it ran fine for the first 90+ rounds without a hitch. I also notice that the top handguard was making contact with the spigot assembly.

The contact with the handguard shouldn't be an issue. Both of mine made contact and I haven't had those problems.

Seems as though the short-barreled kits are the ones with the most malfunctions. It may be anecdotal but the 14.5-16" kits run alright.

If the  FSB is canted it would add to the problem of any misalignment.  Also the shorter the barrel used the worse effect any misalignment will have.

Are all of the issues with the system occuring on rifles using A frame FSB's or has anyone ahd a problem using a gas block?

If the tapped rod binds on the push stroke the bolt will have a late start on building enough inertia to fully cycle. Then we would have a slow cycle that would slow down to a point where you might get a FTF on the return stroke.  Remember the recoil spring is almost fully extended by this point and we are relying on bolt inertia to do all the work.
Takes a pretty good push to strip a round, like full spring compression,that's where we get the inertia to start with.

If the tappet rod binds on it's return stroke you can have the same problem, because now there is a target that the BCG is going to pile drive on the return stroke. This would be the worse of the two.  The bolt would be almost locked or at least into the locking lugs. All the inertia that we had to cycle our weapons was lost pile driving the tappet rod home.

The tappet rod wouldn't have to bind much or for very long. Things are moving along pretty quickly anyways.  Much faster than Stoner had intended them.  

The metal shaving, not brass in the chamber area should be a clue as to what is happening.

Maybe the bushing should be bronze. It is tough but self lubricating.
hinking.gif  Maybe I've been thinking to much. Maybe no one is reading my long boring posts anyways. Any ideas Molon?

So many variables involved.  I'd really like to know exactly where those metal shavings are coming from.  It does seem that the majority of the issues are happening with the shorter barrels.

CDJ, have you tried running some M193 or M855 through your unit?  Since the Ares system was designed for "full power 5.56mm ammunition" I wonder if this could be part of the problem or at least compounding the problem?  So many variables involved.

Well, it sounds like I have had a different problem.
Initially my carrier was a semiauto, with the unprotected firing pin.
I talked to Denny and he swapped me out for a shrouded one, which fixed the problem with the carrier hanging on the hammer.
The problem I have had recently is that the piston would " long stroke "
Really.
It would literally push the piston out of the sleeve and it would be sitting on the lip of the spigot assembly.
The carrier would be halfway to battery.
I shoot suppressed only so I figured it was just overpressuring it.
I also only shoot M855, surplus, 16 inch barrel, semiauto.
What I ended up doing was measuring how much travel I could take out of the piston movement and adding bushings onto the pushrod between the spring and that cap that goes on the end of the pushrod.  It turns out that 3/8 of an inch made all the difference in the world.  Runs fine suppressed and unsuppressed.
I have a total of about 1000 rounds through it to date.  Today with the new setup I ran 150 without a single problem.
Before I couldn't get through a mag without it hanging at least two or three times, usually every other round or so.