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Posted: 12/10/2005 4:07:07 PM EDT
[#1]
Thats DPMS. I can see the D on the side. I have one like that--except mine is only staked twice instead of three times per screw. |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 1:37:46 PM EDT
[#2]
I see that D now, bad angle
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Posted: 12/16/2005 2:59:38 AM EDT
[#3]
at the risk of starting a brand war in this thread, I will point out that a couple of brands (complete rifles, not just parts vendors) have a solid reputation for loose key screws. If you buy from one of those companies you'd do good to check the screws with a wrench after the first outing.
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Posted: 12/16/2005 4:59:14 AM EDT
[#4]
OK, if I buy one of those brands, I'll be sure to check. Oh wait -- you didn't specify which brands... That's one way to avoid a brand war.  |
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Posted: 12/16/2005 6:21:46 AM EDT
[#5]
what about cmmg?
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Posted: 12/16/2005 6:59:42 AM EDT
[#6]
Here's a picture I took comparing my Colt AR15 BC (left) and a CMT/STAG M16 BC (right):
 The Colt appears to be properly staked but the job could have been better. The CMT seems pretty close. My first AR15, a Bushmaster BTW, had a loose carrier key after 200 or so rounds (Can't remember exactly the round count but it was low). Recently I took a training class and the first rifle to go down with a problem was a Bushmaster with an improperly staked carrier key. Adding loctite to the gas key screws only helped for a while and then it was loose again. |
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Posted: 12/16/2005 7:13:48 AM EDT
[#7]
My LMT M16 is staked rather well.
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Posted: 12/16/2005 9:01:33 AM EDT
[#8]
Tweak- what exactly to you mean by lapping the screws before reinserting them? taking them out and making sure the edges are smooth and round again? Do you suggest possible smoothing out the holes in the key and then starting over fresh in new spots around the screws?
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Posted: 12/16/2005 10:28:15 AM EDT
[#9]
From page 3...
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Posted: 12/16/2005 10:38:46 AM EDT
[#10]
thanks. I misread that and was thinking we were going to have to clean up the screws and key holes for the screws. I suppose you just do what you have to do once you remove them, huh?
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Posted: 12/16/2005 2:48:35 PM EDT
[#11]
if you have to remove them, yes, might as well insure the key tightly fits the carrier.
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Posted: 12/16/2005 6:05:23 PM EDT
[#12]
yikes.. thanks tweak for posting about this.. I opened up all 3 uppers and ouch - found this.
 Top is Bushmaster (both my BM's look very similar), bottom is brand new CMMG upper I got this month (cmmg refuses to name their supplier).  close-up of the stake seems to show that it was punched vertically rather than slashed horizontally.  I dont own a vice, should I A: field punch it, B: lay it on its side and side punch it with a screwdriver, or C: go and buy a vice? thanks.. |
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Posted: 12/16/2005 6:41:11 PM EDT
[#13]
Go buy a vice. Best 30.00 you'll ever spend.
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Posted: 12/16/2005 7:57:11 PM EDT
[#14]
Oh yeah...Bushmaster is every bit as good as a Colt. 
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Posted: 12/16/2005 8:26:54 PM EDT
[#15]
FORD!  eta: thanks jason I took your advice and picked up a small vice. 
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Posted: 12/16/2005 8:40:36 PM EDT
[#16]
Sorry...I've just been hearing that so much lately and it's so abundantly obvious that it's not the case. People slam Colt for politics, but couldn't care less that Bushmaster can't build a rifle correctly. |
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Posted: 12/16/2005 9:08:45 PM EDT
[#17]
I hear you.. I am a little lost tho.. what didnt you like about the bushmaster in the pic? the stake is lighter (not as deep) than the colt pictured in a previous reply, but at least it was staked in the right direction unlike the cmmg (aka ?) in the lower pic.. eta: I went back and compared my other (newer) BM carrier.. the stakes are definately deeper in the newer carrier. The one in the picture is from 2003 - I've put about 5000 rounds through it, both bolts are tight as drums. |
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Posted: 12/17/2005 4:21:56 AM EDT
[#18]
Two things frustrate me about the whole issue. I had a buddy that couldn't finish a range session because his key came loose and I've seen countless posts from people who have had it happen to them. Kind of like the excessive windage problem, when are they gonna fix the issue? Also, Bushmaster posted here on this site that they had some new revolutionary staking process and yet it's the same old crap. They did the same with the excessive windage problem. They said they started laser aligning every upper and yet people are still having problems. With the things that are so vehemently bashed on this board, Bushmaster's lack of desire to build a great rifle goes unscathed. And people talk about Colt Kool-aid...sheesh. |
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Posted: 12/17/2005 7:10:22 AM EDT
[#19]
At least I know who are using the correct screws now so I can order some.
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Posted: 12/17/2005 8:55:10 AM EDT
[#20]
All AR manufacturers have QC problems. My Colt had a windage problem when I first got it. Fortunately, this was an easy fix. And my Bushmaster had feeding issues. I needed to send this one back (bolt would short stroke). As a graduate of Build Your Own University, I have found the only way to get a quality built AR with excellent parts and features is to build your own.
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Posted: 12/18/2005 6:04:27 AM EDT
[#21]
Tweak,
This is good information on a very important topic! I have a bolt carrier, maybe two, that have the staking going across the bolt heads, like your photo shows. Looks like that I'll need to do the job right, just in case....I like my face and eyes the way they are now: INTACT. When I used to build rockets and stuff, we would stake our bolt heads like you show, not across the bolt head itself. A few engineers helped us build a rocket engine once, they did not stake all thier work. During a test firing, bolt came out, and engine was toast....actually more burned to hell and back rather than toated. After that we left "Poindexter" ("Dex" to his friends) do the design and WATCH us build it. Of course, he was the same one who tossed a lit road flare in a styrofoam ice chest, which was half full of liquid oxygen....Wiley Coyote!!! hahahaha   But that's another story.
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Posted: 12/18/2005 6:36:13 AM EDT
[#22]
if the screws come loose the worst that happens is your rifle stops working. worst case scenario is the caps snap off of the shanks and get into the upper causing the carrier to bind. nothing life or limb threatening.
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Posted: 12/18/2005 6:36:19 AM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 12/18/2005 7:21:14 AM EDT
[#24]
I can't post any pictures, but i just pulled my carrier group, and it is staked in three places on the carrier metal surrounding both screw heads. The carrier screws are tight. I have had this rifle for a little over two years and this is the first time I have even thought of checking it. The rifle is an Armalite midlength. This is a very interesting thread. Thanks Tweak!
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Posted: 12/18/2005 7:26:25 AM EDT
[#25]
you're welcome,
can't post pics bc you lack a camera or bc you don't know how? Posting pics in topic even with film you can still get the film processed into digital prints, did that for a long time before I bought my digicam, had better pics back then
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Posted: 12/18/2005 7:28:44 AM EDT
[#26]
Remember the macro button!
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Posted: 12/18/2005 7:32:34 AM EDT
[#27]
It's frightening that this is not common sense.
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Posted: 12/18/2005 7:34:35 AM EDT
[#28]
oh I got the macro and zoom thing down, cam sucks
Vivitar V330 |
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Posted: 12/18/2005 7:45:38 AM EDT
[#29]
I can probably figure out how to post a picture, but I am currently working away from home and my wife has my our digital camera at home. I take one of my ARs, a shotgun and a pistol with me just in case I find a 3 gun match going on. Shooting is my hobby and my hobby goes on the road with me. It keeps me out of the bars.
I will be home over the Xmas holidays and I will try to get a picture up then.
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Posted: 12/18/2005 7:50:50 AM EDT
[#30]
Thanks for the info, off to check the Bushy right now.
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Posted: 12/18/2005 10:58:16 AM EDT
[#31]
From looking at this thread it seems to me that either people are confused as to who made their carriers, or some manufacturers don't have any consistent method of staking or they have more than one supplier.
Guy who posted this says the one on the right is CMT: Someone else's CMMG (bottom): My CMT (middle):  ??????????????? |
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Posted: 12/18/2005 1:15:53 PM EDT
[#32]
Does anyone know what size hex wrench is needed for the carrier keys? I have some SAE's, but not the right size.
TIA. |
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Posted: 12/18/2005 4:30:27 PM EDT
[#33]
9/64 Allen |
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Posted: 12/19/2005 5:14:29 AM EDT
[#34]
Two sizes are common, one is listed above and I'm too lazy to go look up the other one right now How they're staked depends on more than which company sells them. Can depend on who in the company built them or if a middle man did the assembly. |
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Posted: 12/28/2005 3:52:49 AM EDT
[#35]
AAMOF, if my eyes aren't mistaken I think I see both sizes of screws in that pic, can you confirm boltcatch? |
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Posted: 12/28/2005 9:54:32 AM EDT
[#36]
I just checked the wrench size needed for the 2 dirty guns that are on the floor a few feet from me... LMT BCG - 1/8 in. CMT BCG - 9/64 in. Speaking of lazy, I guess I should be cleaning the guns instead of playing with hex bits and posting... |
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Posted: 12/28/2005 1:05:39 PM EDT
[#37]
I thought it was 1/8", would have had to dig through boxes of key screws with my wrench set to be sure tho.
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Posted: 12/28/2005 4:25:45 PM EDT
[#38]
Thanks gentlemen !! (You too, Tweak! --- j/k! ) |
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Posted: 12/28/2005 9:57:07 PM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:09:29 AM EDT
[#40]
TAG
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:17:30 AM EDT
[#41]
Yes, I believe those are different sizes, although I can't check them now because I don't have a couple of those with me at the moment. |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 1:12:28 PM EDT
[#42]
s'ok, looks like it got covered
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Posted: 12/29/2005 1:14:22 PM EDT
[#43]
So how do prepare a steak? (just joking) Thanks for the info. |
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Posted: 12/30/2005 7:29:11 PM EDT
[#44]
I let the sammich maker cook the steaks
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Posted: 1/3/2006 10:22:07 AM EDT
[#45]
tag
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Posted: 1/3/2006 10:23:57 AM EDT
[#46]
it's all saved here folks
www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=122 no need for tags as this thread will disappear the big link |
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Posted: 1/3/2006 3:07:31 PM EDT
[#47]
LOL! So you want to see different types of bolts huh? Check this out.  I guess my eyes aren't what they use to be, because I didn't even notice the difference until I took the picture and blew it up. 
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Posted: 1/3/2006 3:14:06 PM EDT
[#48]
now that just screams quality control
 is that a star bit?
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Posted: 1/3/2006 3:38:37 PM EDT
[#49]
Unfortunately, I'm the QC guy.
 They were all new Bushmaster parts, that I assembled. Those are the two screws that came with the carrier key. I just didn't notice the difference when I put it together. I guess it's time to get some reading glasses. I'm not sure what type of bolt that is supposed to be, but they both tightened up just fine with an allen bit/torque wrench.
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Posted: 1/3/2006 6:08:54 PM EDT
[#50]
I found that a small nail set works well to to a proper stake job.
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