Please feel free to debate the merits of non stock triggers and match triggers all you like. But do not resort to name calling or cheap shots. OK, its not that hard.

FWIW, Im pretty torn on the issue. I have several guns with match triggers, and not all of them have been 100% for me. A couple of them have though. I certainly appreciate the advantage they can give on a rifle that can make use of what a better trigger pull can offer a gun. But I have seen every trigger mentioned in this thread malfunction (with the excpeption of the Geissele trigger that I have never seen).

Have seen them double on two occasions, and one time one locked up and wouldnt release.

Quoted: Have seen them double on two occasions, and one time one locked up and wouldnt release.

I'd be willing to bet the doubling is because it was set too tight(downside of having 1 screw adjust 2 things), and the user bump fired without even knowing.  The sear engagement can also be adjusted on the KAC to the point where the hammer hooks will not fit between the disconnector and sear.  Were these "doubling" shots taken while the rifle was on a rest?

RRA - A couple years ago, I saw several turn into single stage triggers, and each one had an "R" stamped on it.  I gave one to my tool maker guy, and he said the surface hardening was not deep enough.  The disconnector had worn, and there was not enough left to catch the hammer hook for the second stage - resulting in a single stage trigger. Single stage - but still functional.

As for standard triggers doubling, I've also seen those bump fired without knowing.  After shooting a bullseye match with my 1911, I went to the next range over(rifle) where my friend was shooting a new AR, Bushmaster w/standard trigger.  After shooting the 1911, easing to reset and shooting again, I did the same with his AR, only the recoil bounced off my shoulder as soon as the trigger reset, and I shot 4 or 5 2rd bursts before I had to make an effort to relax my "1911" trigger finger.  


NAG - what malfunctions did you see with the Milazzo, and who tuned it?   I can count the people I know with Milazzo triggers on one hand, and they were all tuned by the AMU, and have never failed.

Tag for later.

Quoted: NAG - what malfunctions did you see with the Milazzo, and who tuned it?   I can count the people I know with Milazzo triggers on one hand, and they were all tuned by the AMU, and have never failed.

I apologize for not being more precise. I read the whole thread and then posted and did not recall the Milazzo trigger being mentioned. As you might guess, I have never even heard of it. I have not seen, much less heard of any problems with those. Again, my apologies.

The first time I saw a KAC trigger double, I did not get a chance to look at it or try it, so I cant say what it was. I only saw it happen and asked what trigger it was. The second time it was at a class and I got a chance to see it, try it, and fix it. The trigger would fire upon pressing the trigger, and again when releasing. It was during a precision rifle class. The shooter was pretty cool, it only a took a shot or two to figure out what was happening. At this drill in the class, we were shooting at steel plates at 400. After it was determined how the trigger was acting, the shooter would pull the trigger, hit steel, then release the trigger, and hit steel. Cool! After that, we adjusted it and it ran cool for the rest of the class and continues to run smooth as I have been told.

The KAC trigger locking up was just what you said Steve. As I recall, the one screw had been adjusted to the rear hook on the trigger was catching on the hook of the disconector. That was a pain to fix.

I have seen RRA triggers fail to reset, where you had to actually pull the trigger forward. This was on a stock RRA rifle that came with the trigger from the factory. Seen or been told of them loosing their first stage at least a half dozen times. A few local high power competitors come through where I work and we talk about what they see often. I dont know enough about their sport to tell anyone more specific though.

I have seen one Jewell double and another is totally screw up. A friend with one has sent it back three times for factory work, has not touched anything aside from actually pulling the trigger, and it STILL doesnt work.

I have seen a JP trigger double even though the two set screws had so much lock tite on them it was a red blob surrounding each screw. My JP trigger, however, is in my most used gun, was set by JP, and has upwards of 20k rounds through it, been through at least 5 or 6 classes, and never with a problem.

My frineds Jard trigger started doubling on the 3rd day of the Pat Rogers class last year.

I had CMC's come back to my job more recently with complaints of doubling. I didnt see these myself, but cant for the life of me figure why someone would lie to me.

Any other triggers mentioned? I agree that the at least half of the problems I have seen were due to user error, but not the other half. But the problem is, who am I? A guy who likes to go out and shoot, know a lot of people who do the same, and get the chance to see and talk to a lot of people using a lot of gear. If my extremely limited expierience concides with what people who see this stuff every day say, I tend to agree with them. Even though, my own personal experience, with my own gun and my own triggers, may be different.

Quoted: My JP trigger, however, is in my most used gun, was set by JP, and has upwards of 20k rounds through it, been through at least 5 or 6 classes, and never with a problem.

I think thats key with any "fancy" trigger, along with doing your best to avoid user error. As I said, its so tempting to just give one of those screws a another 1/8 turn.....

I dont have much of any experience with the McMs, but they are new, and more and more negative reports a showing on the 'net.  

I think RRA triggers are like Streamlight M3s. Both are about $100, both work "good enough" for the majority of buyers, but the more serious folks will end up with a KAC(soon to be GA) trigger and a X200A.  Does that make sense?

Quoted: - What the hell is up with Milazzo? - Is Charlie out of the business?

Was he ever really in business?  I know of no one who was ever able to get him on the phone, and when he was at commercial row a few years ago, the only words anyone heard him say was "cash only".

Quoted: No, but since you brought the subject up how about Armalite 2 stage triggers?

I have heard a couple people advise against using them a few years back, but nothing anyone said seemed very concrete. I myself have never seen any problems with them, but at the same time I have seen very few of them to begin with.

Quoted: The Armalite trigger is pretty good ( better than RRA's IMOP ) but more $ than RRA's; RRA and LMT ? are pretty much clones of the Armalite with some small changes with the disconnector design and manufacture methods. Don't think Bigbore had one pictured in his excellent " ETYEWTK about 2 stage triggers "  thread ...

I added it yesterday on page 3.

Quoted: bigbore, Whats the round count through trigger to date?  Any new comments or updates?

I have one in my AR10 with about 50 rounds through it.  I'll be using it in a match next weekend that will add another 62 rounds.  

Cold weather and short days dont leave much range time with a rifle.

I've sold 5, and no one has complained.

I have some SBR projects that I'll be going through many rounds in testing once I get things lined up.  

Quoted: Yup I got one, havnt used it yet, taking it to the range in a few days, will let yall know how it goes.

Did you install it yet? What was your initial impression? Get some dry fire time in first, its will surprise you the first few times it breaks(2nd stage that is)
I think many people are scared away because they think its more complicated than it really is.

After reading ADCO's comments about these triggers I went ahead and ordered some. My initial impressions (just from examining and comparing them against KAC and LMT) is that they are the best trigger on the market. I look forward to installing these in my AR and running them through some classes.

I know many folks are not a fan of two stage triggers (view them as fancy) and worry that they will are more prone to breaking. I run LMT two stage and JP single stage triggers in all my weapons. These same weapons are what I use in all the training classes I have taken. Never once have I have a single issue with them.



C4

www.GRTactical.com


KAC trigger/hammer on the right and Geissele on the left

Quoted: After reading ADCO's comments about these triggers I went ahead and ordered some.

You wont regret that decision

The closest triggers to compare these to are the KAC, and as you see they are a HUGE improvement over the KAC 2-Stage triggers.  

Quoted: Quoted: After reading ADCO's comments about these triggers I went ahead and ordered some. You wont regret that decision The closest triggers to compare these to are the KAC, and as you see they are a HUGE improvement over the KAC 2-Stage triggers.

I could tell as soon as I looked at them that there were better than the KAC trigger (fit and finish alone). Not to mention that they are MUCH cheaper than the KAC trigger!



C4

My question is how well do these triggers deal with hard primered rounds in relation to the stock trigger?

Quoted: My question is how well do these triggers deal with hard primered rounds in relation to the stock trigger?

High speed hammer takes care of that issue

Quoted: My question is how well do these triggers deal with hard primered rounds in relation to the stock trigger?

I generally ONLY shoot mil-spec ammo and have NEVER had an issue even with the JP reduced power springs.



C4