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Posted: 2/26/2008 8:06:46 PM EDT
[#1]
Oh man, if that is the case then 7.62x39 could probably exceed interest for 6.8 due to availability and price of ammo. Chrome lined barrel and a more accurate platform for the 7.62x39 than an AK would sell a good deal. Maybe on an AR-47 lower?????? |
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Posted: 2/26/2008 8:50:56 PM EDT
[#2]
It would be kick ass, Quality chrome lined barrels, piston system, free float, Cproducts 30rd mags and i would probably run the MGI bolt and firing pin. That would be the ultimate setup. Ammo would be cheaper than both 5.56 and 6.8 spc. I cant Wait! |
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Posted: 2/27/2008 6:25:34 AM EDT
[#3]
The M4 style handguards will fit - the small rounds ones will not. We have recently brought in some M4 style handguards from Cav Arms that are M4 profile but mid length! They are awesome and we are quite excited about the ability to fit our system on a mid length rifle while still using a standard handguard. Todd |
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Posted: 2/27/2008 6:29:23 AM EDT
[#4]
They are lined with a space age poly propylene that keeps the bullets from spinning too fast prior to exiting the barrel.  Seriously though - I will have all the details regarding the barrels when we decide which barrel we are going to use. Until then, if I release details about one barrel vs. another, they will ultimately be mixed up with the barrel we actually decide on. Todd |
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Posted: 2/27/2008 9:42:07 AM EDT
[#5]
Please don't waste time on a non-chrome lined barrel as there are plenty of those on the market as is. |
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Posted: 2/27/2008 10:31:26 AM EDT
[#6]
Mockup of the 6.8SPC SBR Tim Hicks at Cardinal Armory will be building for me as soon as he hits the "go" switch on PWS conversions... Should make shooting with my Surefire can much more pleasant. Can't wait!
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Posted: 2/29/2008 8:45:08 PM EDT
[#7]
I'm interested in getting one in rifle length so don't be so quick about dropping it from the lineup. Most of my AR's are full rifle length; not the SBR's so popular now.
All my shorter (16" barrels) AR's are mid-length gas system so I really like that you can do rifle, middy and carbine with the same system. That is a big selling point for me. I do have a question though... Any chance of volume discounts? |
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Posted: 3/1/2008 8:44:13 AM EDT
[#8]
It depends on the volume - 3 systems - no discount. 25 systems, absolutely. Somewhere in the middle can be discussed at that time.
As most people know, we also offer a 10% military and LE discount. Hope this helps. Todd (edited to add - Welcome to the AR15.com.  )
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Posted: 3/2/2008 6:53:01 PM EDT
[#9]
It sounds like you are doing a great job. Thanks for all the pictures and R&D Info.
I will ask a stupid question so it only needs a stupid reply. Will this fit my not listed DD M4 Series Rail? My real question is this. Will this conversion be compatible with a STAG ARMS LH SETUP? Since the difference is the bolt and carrier, not the Key. But your are the designer. I currently have a Stag Arms upper and bolt assembly, WOA 16" mid-length SS barrel and DD M4 9.5 FSB rail. A PWS would be great. Thanks Jay |
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Posted: 3/2/2008 9:43:31 PM EDT
[#10]
You are correct for all the right reasons. The system will fit on a LH setup with ease as we do not replace any parts that would be different in the LH setup.
Unfortunately the M4 series has a lip on the inside that does not allow our tube to fit inside of it. So the M4 series does not fit, but the Lite Rail does. Hope this helps. Todd |
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Posted: 3/2/2008 11:45:29 PM EDT
[#11]
I had studied the DD M4 Rail and saw that lip. guessing correctly that the lip might be the issue causing it to have a to narrow ID.
Hey guys I am surprised with the tremendous interest with the 7.62mm. Why so much interest in this caliber? Teach me something. Thanks Jay |
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Posted: 3/3/2008 11:18:37 AM EDT
[#12]
Because it's next to the 6.8 in desirability but MUCH more readily available (and cheaper too). If you can make an AR-47 lower work you'll have cheap and plentiful mags too. Oh, and 7.62 out of a free-floated barrel with the AR's "tightness" in specs = more accuracy than an AK. |
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Posted: 3/3/2008 6:29:11 PM EDT
[#13]
So 100% no carrier tilt guaranteed on this this kit?
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Posted: 3/3/2008 6:54:27 PM EDT
[#14]
Thats exactly why i want one. I just dont like the looks, ergonomincs, accuracy, and Quality of an AK. Ive already got a 6.8 but ammo is expensive and sometimes hard to find. |
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Posted: 3/4/2008 11:10:36 AM EDT
[#15]
I dropped the upper in the mail today!
I was hoping to have it back by tomorrow  
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Posted: 3/4/2008 11:11:23 AM EDT
[#16]
I love the way 7.62x39 feels on full auto, much more satisfying than 5.56. Plus I have thousands of rounds of cheap (way back when) surplus and wolf to shoot. |
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Posted: 3/12/2008 9:17:00 PM EDT
[#17]
Do you build custom uppers with this system or just the kit?
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Posted: 3/13/2008 11:32:12 AM EDT
[#18]
We are only doing installs here on customer supplied rifles. Dealers such as Rainier Arms will be doing custom rifles providing we EVER get them the parts they need to do so. (hopefully within 2 weeks - still waiting for the tubes to come back from chroming).
Todd |
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Posted: 3/16/2008 9:29:41 PM EDT
[#19]
Have you looked at the JP handguards to see if your system fits?
Thanks! |
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Posted: 3/17/2008 10:12:45 AM EDT
[#20]
The JP hand guards, much like most of the other round tube like hand guards, do not allow for sufficient clearance for our piston tube and thus will not work.
Todd |
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Posted: 3/17/2008 5:07:46 PM EDT
[#21]
Don't know if this has been covered, but will your conversion fit under a KAC RAS II rail syatem? Thanks.
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Posted: 3/17/2008 6:44:01 PM EDT
[#22]
Thanks for the reminder - I was supposed to get a couple Knights rails sent to me - but they have not arrived.
I'll give them a call tomorrow and let you know what I find out. I'm sure it will be a week or so before I can get them in hand - but I will definitely make the announcement once I know. Todd |
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Posted: 3/18/2008 5:30:57 AM EDT
[#23]
Thanks; I'll be waiting until then.
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Posted: 3/21/2008 4:05:00 AM EDT
[#24]
Will a VLTOR CASV work with this?
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Posted: 3/21/2008 12:40:04 PM EDT
[#25]
ditto on this question. was wondering the same thing. |
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Posted: 3/21/2008 2:16:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Yes the Vltor CASV will fit with just a little grinding on the inside ribs. Todd has my upper with the CASV installing one of the newer piston kits. He may have a photo of it that he could post when the conversion is done?
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Posted: 3/21/2008 2:23:14 PM EDT
[#27]
If I have this installed on my MGI upper will I be able to swap the barrel and bolt carrier and go back and forth from DI?
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Posted: 3/21/2008 4:55:46 PM EDT
[#28]
It "can" work with the CASV - but requires a modification that could void your warranty. Furthermore, we will not do the modification in our shop. Other installers (once setup) may offer this service, but we do not wish to do anything to purposefully voids any warranty. The modification to the CASV is not severe, it simply requires that some of the material from inside the top handguard portion be removed - namely a portion of the support structure. Hope this helps. Todd |
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Posted: 3/21/2008 4:59:38 PM EDT
[#29]
There are several issues with this scenario. First - the MGI handguard does not allow for sufficient clearance for our system. If it did - or if there was a way around that, to swap barrels you would need another gas block on each barrel - which is something we don't offer right now without buying another complete system. This would obviously not be very cost effective if it were possible at all. Todd |
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Posted: 3/21/2008 5:33:08 PM EDT
[#30]
Are you familiar with there new rail system on the MGI upper?  I know the older tube type wont have clearance but I noticed on mine there is a lot some material machined from under the top rail. I can take more pics and measurements if you like. On the other hand if you give me the clearance required from say the top of a .75 streight profile barrel I can figure it for myself. I'm not interested in swapping the piston system between barrels. Just having one barrel set up for it. LWRC gave me a quote on a special captured piston system they can install for my use. They have quite a reputation but I like the simplicity of your design, yours is a little more friendly to my wallet to. It fits nicely into the tax prebate coming to me in May 
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Posted: 3/25/2008 5:31:20 AM EDT
[#31]
I haven't seen the new upper. Can you take a couple shots of the end of it - specifically mounted over the barrel. A measurement would be good if you have the ability. I would certainly like to be able to fit under the MGI system.
Todd |
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Posted: 3/25/2008 4:15:58 PM EDT
[#32]
Hi, Todd
I would like to send upper in for piston system upgrade. Can I just send it in with a check? or I should go through your website to buy it first? Tks |
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Posted: 3/25/2008 6:18:17 PM EDT
[#33]
Sorry to ask a newb question. But i currently own a POF AR15 which is a piston system and has been extremely reliable. I am looking for a 2nd AR15 and was thinking either at another rife that is piston designed from scratch or purchasing a RRA or Stag Arms and using your system to make it a piston type system.
How is your piston system different that the POF setup? Does your system offer any advantages over a rifle like the POF or similar that is piston from scratch? I appreciate all inputs. |
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Posted: 3/26/2008 9:22:35 AM EDT
[#34]
We prefer that people go through the website, as it makes keeping track of everything easier. However, if you prefer to send a check, please send it with a note containing all of your info, shipping address, any special instructions, etc. Todd |
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Posted: 3/26/2008 9:23:32 AM EDT
[#35]
The biggest difference between ours and the other systems available is that our operating rod is connected to the carrier - more like the Aug or the AK. We feel that this gives a smoother, more familiar recoil impulse than that of the other systems available. Todd |
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Posted: 3/26/2008 12:03:00 PM EDT
[#36]
Sorry if this is redundant, I haven't read the entire thread because I'm in a hurry right now.
Anyway how does it handle full auto fire? By the way, very cool design! 
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Posted: 3/26/2008 3:43:41 PM EDT
[#37]
No prob, might have to wait tell this weekend. As for pics. I have stripped the MGI upper down to the receiver before. I'll do that again and get you all the pic's of the system bones on up as I'm sure you'll probably have to do that to install the piston for me. There are some screws that hide a couple items that are under spring pressure so I'll give a step by step on those so you don't end up on hands and knees for 2 hours like I did. It will be neat if we can get this to work. DI or Piston in the same exact platform should make very interesting side by side comparison. |
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Posted: 3/26/2008 4:00:45 PM EDT
[#38]
My understanding is it has many advantages over DI for full auto. Also unlike others the op rod isn't slamming the bolt carrier like a jack hammer. Over DI You have less fouling in the carrier and upper as a whole. The bolt and carrier stay much cooler so you don't burn of lube like you do in a DI gun. When you do go to clean it the crud is limited to the piston and piston housing. Less parts needing cleaned. I'm sure PWS will list a few more. But from what I've seen at ranges with POF's and LWRC's they run cleaner and cooler. In FA this is going to show up 100x. I bet you could run FA on 1000rds of WOLF and be cleaner and cooler than if you dumped a mag of your choice of ammo in a DI gun. At least as far as the bolt carrier,bolt, and upper receiver are concerned. EDIT: I forgot the quote
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Posted: 3/28/2008 6:02:14 AM EDT
[#39]
I've been reading back through this thread, do you any updates on the 7.62x39 project? Chrome lined barrels still in the mix? The CProducts 30 rounders are almost here. I hope...
How's the 6.8 testing coming along? I've practically got my upper packed and ready to ship to Tim. What can you tell us? Looking forward to having both. |
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Posted: 3/28/2008 11:33:55 AM EDT
[#40]
About ready to pull the trigger on this conversion.
I was wondering if there are any third party reviews on the system yet that I can read? Would love to get the perspective of some users and maybe an independent review site. Thanks in advance, -Chris |
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Posted: 3/28/2008 7:34:16 PM EDT
[#41]
Speaking of left hand will this system work with a Stag Arms lefty upper?
Will the Yankee Hill Forearm work? Thanks Bruce
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Posted: 3/28/2008 8:12:40 PM EDT
[#42]
Left hand - Yes. YHM round rail - No.
Todd |
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Posted: 3/28/2008 8:14:08 PM EDT
[#43]
The system loves full auto! We are big full auto fans - so it is something that has certainly been on our mind from the beginning. Todd |
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Posted: 3/28/2008 8:15:23 PM EDT
[#44]
I, too, am still waiting on the C-products mags. Until I get them - I can only do so much testing with my Frankenstein mag... Todd |
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Posted: 3/28/2008 11:07:33 PM EDT
[#45]
Ok The pic's for the MGI upper as requested.
This is with a pencil barrel installed.  This is a cloce up of the relief in the handguard. I did a little MS Paint to show where I might need to have material removed as it looks like it could be very close.  Here is a shot from front to back all the way to the back.  The Handguard is really 2 parts. The main body and an extension that screws on. Without the extension the handguard clears a carbine length frontsight/gasblock by about 1/8'' to 1/16''. I think It would look really slick if I ordered an extra extension from MGI and had it machined to fit around the PWS gasblock. Sorry about not having measurement handy. But the shot all the way to the gas tube hole in the receiver gives some scale. Hmmm... I noticed the gas block uses set screws. O the possibilities.
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Posted: 3/29/2008 4:54:49 AM EDT
[#46]
Any updates on the pistol length gas system or the handguards for it? I know you said you
won't modify handguards because of the warranty, but what if the handguard was sent in already modified? What I have in mind is the Larue 7.0 with the top section cut out to accept your gas block. |
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Posted: 3/29/2008 12:57:37 PM EDT
[#47]
Is the rail on the handguard higher than the receiver rail? It looks like there is a lot of space, but if it is receiver height, then I still don't think it would fit. Shoot me an email - maybe we can have you send it in to look at - as your are MT, it should only be a day or so away via UPS. Todd |
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Posted: 3/29/2008 12:59:15 PM EDT
[#48]
Still waiting on both the handguard and the final testing for the pistol length. In theory my pistol is headed back this direction, but until I get it back, I'm in a holding pattern.  Todd |
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Posted: 3/29/2008 10:00:25 PM EDT
[#49]
The handguard rail is receiver height. I'm actually in Ft. Bragg with the 82nd, but I call Montana home. I'll have to think about sending it in. If I send it I'm gona want the piston in it. I'm going to see if I can dig up a micrometer. I'll look back in the thread for the clearance measurement and see if I can determine it myself. It's too bad I can't just order the whole assembly from you guys. Then I could just have my handguard cut back as needed for clearance. You guys mentioned that there might be outside gunsmiths qualified to do the install. What would it take to get qualified to do that work myself? ETA:
Am I safe assuming the .270 measurement is off of a .750 (Bull) barrel? |
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Posted: 3/31/2008 4:47:59 AM EDT
[#50]
Is there any word on if the system works on the old Troy rails yet?
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