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Posted: 8/5/2005 4:33:42 PM EDT
[#1]
I am still in schock. I picked up 26 boxes of Win Q3131A here in AZ at a Sportsman's Warehouse. I bought all they had It was like $4.27 a box. Lot:WB30. 2004 head stamp. Ill be checking this place again on Monday. I doubt there will be anymore of it showing up.
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Posted: 9/2/2005 6:39:04 PM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 9/2/2005 6:53:32 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 9/8/2005 8:35:30 AM EDT
[#4]
I saw plenty of Q3131A for sale at a show last weekend at $3.80/box, one case of XM193 (Lot 103) for $3.88/box, and 27 boxes of Q3131 for $3.33/box.
Is Q3131A and XM193 drying up? |
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Posted: 9/9/2005 3:53:11 PM EDT
[#5]
Riley's in Hookset, NH still has tons of XM-193, at $89.95 per 500 round box. Picked up 1000 rounds last night.
The owner said they had tons of it, and actually lowered their price from $99.95 a few months back. |
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Posted: 9/10/2005 9:24:58 AM EDT
[#6]
It is XM193, as stated on the box. I have 1,000 rounds of this (Lot 6), and the brass is dated '00 thru '01, so they can't be that old. I don't think there is any difference between this and the brown box. Or is there? |
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Posted: 9/12/2005 7:35:30 PM EDT
[#7]
My rifle is 5.56, what ammo can be shot in it? Xm193? and can .223 be shot in it.
Thanks. |
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Posted: 9/13/2005 5:27:17 AM EDT
[#8]
You can shoot both 5.56 and .223 in a 5.56 caliber rifle. No 5.56 in a .223 chamber, though. |
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Posted: 9/13/2005 1:16:59 PM EDT
[#9]
looky what I found
223 Winchester M855 Penetrator 62gr FMJ green tip, 20 round boxes It is new factory Winchester M855 penetrator ammo, not surplus seconds, with the 62gr SS109 style bullet. In white 20rd boxes. Get 20rd box for $8.00 or as low as $5.80 ea in quantity J&G Sales ltd http://home.comcast.net/~bradleywirtz/223.JPG hug.gif |
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Posted: 9/13/2005 5:23:31 PM EDT
[#10]
That is what I figured, thx for the help Safety....
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Posted: 9/13/2005 7:03:08 PM EDT
[#11]
I also have alot of these in the same white box. I am pretty sure they are all "rejects", based on what I have read and their condition. They look like they have been through alot, but they shoot great. No FTF's after about 500 rounds. |
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Posted: 9/26/2005 7:52:51 PM EDT
[#12]
The shortage can be true since there was a British research that said that an equivalent of 250,000 rounds of 5.56mm bullets are used for every insurgent killed. The research also said that the US spends about 1.8 billion rounds of ammo (caliber not specified) per year in Iraq, and US ammo manufacturers' capacity is pushed to the limit. The research further said that the US is now turning to Israel to help eliminate ammo shortages.
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Posted: 9/26/2005 8:14:48 PM EDT
[#13]
No offense, but that sounds like complete HORSE SHIT. Do you want to elaborate on that 250,000 rounds for 1 kill ??? Got a link ? I'd love to hear the logic behind this... |
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Posted: 9/27/2005 4:25:59 PM EDT
[#14]
It just means that x number of bullets expended in Iraq divided by x numbers of insurgents killed. The figure might not be accurate, but that probably explains why 5.56mm ammo sometimes is hard to find.  I wish I could remember. I just read it on a newspaper while I was commuting. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 6:06:25 PM EDT
[#15]
Here's the link: news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article314944.ece. There's also a post with regards to this. I actually got it from the gentleman's post. And it ain't horseshit. 
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Posted: 9/28/2005 9:05:30 PM EDT
[#16]
That 250,000 rounds includes TRAINING as well.
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Posted: 9/29/2005 3:04:13 PM EDT
[#17]
Maybe it's about time to appeal to Prez Bush to execute another executive order to overide Clinton's exec. order which made military ammo unavailable to civilians. Hell, he could do it in five minutes and would take his mind off all the BS he is getting about hurricanes etc.
This whole ammo shortage thing is about as dumb as 3.00/gal gas. I smell a "fix"in here somewhere, or maybe an "opportunity" for an upstart small business ammo provider? This ammo business could become an industry partner for this site etc.......I guess I can dream.. AMMO shortages are Schumer's and his likes wet dreams!! |
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Posted: 9/30/2005 4:36:04 PM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 10/8/2005 11:36:24 PM EDT
[#19]
I was told about 4 months back by a guy who was over there and hes back now, he said he was blowing up ammo,that was his job. He said they would get bunch and pile it up and demolition it instead of moving it and that they had a constant supply coming in they did not bother to waste time moving the ammo from location to location i am guessing it was during all the advancing or temporary post setups. This was not the first time I heard this ,was told they did the same thing back in desert storm and they did not bring ammo stock piles back home they destroyed it. Just a waste of tax payers money and driving our cost up for the ammo.
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Posted: 10/9/2005 5:16:36 AM EDT
[#20]
Why would the military blow up good ammo? That could mean that it is cheaper to buy the ammo rather than ship it, but it just doesn't seem possible. Keep in mind we are also likely talking about other small arms such as mortars, mines and such. I can't see any scenario where this would be practical except some sort of emergency withdrawl. |
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Posted: 10/9/2005 5:25:32 AM EDT
[#21]
# of insurgents killed divided by number of rounds used. I think the figure was 1,000,000 per kill in Vietnam. |
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Posted: 10/10/2005 5:12:52 PM EDT
[#22]
Are we talking TOTAL rounds that are fired during basic training, ammo distributed to soldiers and combat all combined... ? Or is this figure coming from "combat" fired rounds that bring up this statistic ? I've never been in the military, nor have I enjoyed statistics much... but I still cannot fathom such numbers... am I alone on this ? If I were in Iraq, keep in mind that I have no military background, then I would think that if I had a target and at least 120 rounds in 4 magazines... I would think that I would be able to hit any damn person (or the broad side of a barn) ! If these numbers are true then this means that our soldiers are not hitting a goddam thing that they are aiming at With 250,000 rounds, or 1,000,000 I would think that with my limited rifle experience I could kill all of the people in a small country with my eyes closed  So the numbers have to be derived from a total amount used in training, issued and wasted.... Because our soldiers are much better shots than that... Not throwing off on anyone here, military or statistic quoters... just dropping in my 2 cents. Honestly... I'd like to see the link behind that current 250,000 rounds per kill. If just to read it with my own eyes.  ETA : I have no idea what the military pays for 5.56 rounds, but if they spent as little as 10 cents per round, then that would equate to $ 100,000 just to kill 1 person !!! Hmmm, how much would a nuke cost  I'm sure it would have a much better munition to death ratio  It's really no wonder why this war is costing us billions... Everyone in America is kinda split down the middle about the war... but I had much rather the fight be over there than over here... With that in mind, I think our troops need to make a few more trips to the target range  War usually makes economies strive, I am failing to see it in this case. The only ones making the money are the bullet makers and the contractors  |
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Posted: 10/10/2005 6:43:10 PM EDT
[#23]
hence that 250K/ROPer includes everything we fired (incl 5.56, 7.62, 20mm, 25mm, etc etc etc), divided by the number of ROPers KIA. of course, one round out of a M242 Bushmaster (the big one) weighs the same as how many hundreds of 5.56mm??? ar-jedi |
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Posted: 10/10/2005 8:18:41 PM EDT
[#24]
Ah ok, that makes better sense to me now....
Thank you Jedi. I just wanted to see where this info came from so I could gauge the context. Thanks for helping me clear that up. |
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Posted: 10/11/2005 11:18:40 AM EDT
[#25]
NRA2 has the right idea here. Bush needs to execute an executive order to allow military ammo to be sold. Clinton and other Liberals tried to sell it to everybody that Military ammo was somehow more dangerous and unfit for civilians. It would equate to more revenue by selling off surplus. Also by having a constant civilian market there, they'd not be afraid of overproduction and probably not have shortages. Ought to also have Bush pass another exec. order to repeal that import ban nonsense his father put in place. After all, we are the ones who got him elected. |
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Posted: 10/20/2005 1:07:41 PM EDT
[#26]
Looks like Winchester has re-introduced the Q3131! This is the first time I've seen new offerings of this ammo since the late 90's. This is very good news!
Can anyone comment further about this? Is this a longterm plan by Winchester? I hope this becomes a regular product again that's produced in a large enough quantity to keep us supplied. I hope it remains a regular product in Winchester's ammo line for a very long time to come also. |
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Posted: 10/22/2005 2:05:21 PM EDT
[#27]
Brass_Belcher,
Amen! Couldn't have said it better. |
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Posted: 10/23/2005 12:39:41 PM EDT
[#28]
Where did you find It? Is it Q3131 or Q3131A?
Thanks |
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Posted: 10/23/2005 12:47:58 PM EDT
[#29]
Winchester received a sizable 2nd-Source multi-year ammo contract from the US military, and were able to purchase a SCAMP machine of their own. Q3131 is essentially = XM193, meaning it is Grade 2 ammo. Remember that all Grade 1 must go to the military, under the current contracts. Grade 2 ammo is ammo that fails acceptance testing for some generally minor issue. -Troy |
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Posted: 10/23/2005 6:39:59 PM EDT
[#30]
Sounds like a big step in the right direction. We should all buy as much as we can from them so Winchester knows they made the right move. This should also help bring prices down.
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Posted: 10/24/2005 7:34:02 PM EDT
[#31]
    ar-jedi |
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Posted: 10/27/2005 4:28:28 PM EDT
[#32]
Does Q3131 have the velocity that XM193 does?
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Posted: 10/28/2005 3:38:14 PM EDT
[#33]
XM193, Q3131 and Q3131A are all so close in performance that there really is no significant difference in velocity. They all meet M193 velocity standards. |
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Posted: 10/30/2005 11:35:15 AM EDT
[#34]
How does AE 55gr and 62gr compare? I have used both for the last year and have had Zero problems. Just looking to see if this ammo is comparable to the above mentioned in regards to velocity. |
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Posted: 10/31/2005 4:05:24 AM EDT
[#35]
XM193. collector rifle in hopewell has pleanty 209.00 --1000RDS. WOLF 114.95 1000 RDS ,ISRAELI surplus 149.00 1000 rds --his # 845 227 4100
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Posted: 10/31/2005 11:20:18 AM EDT
[#36]
Got some limited quantities of XM193 available even after back orders filled. Around 50 cases, 1st come first serve!
Quantities are limited! Purchase bulk XM193- Click Here! Follow the above link, actual freight applies and will be calculated at check out! Wholesale Hunter Original post to reply is www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=136&t=148688 |
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Posted: 10/31/2005 11:25:25 AM EDT
[#37]
Are these individual 20rd boxes of XM193 or the 500rd loose-pack boxes?
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Posted: 10/31/2005 11:59:34 AM EDT
[#38]
20 round boxes
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Posted: 10/31/2005 12:01:26 PM EDT
[#39]
Awesome, order placed for 1k rounds
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Posted: 10/31/2005 12:03:35 PM EDT
[#40]
sweet placed an order for 2k
 
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Posted: 10/31/2005 12:05:23 PM EDT
[#41]
Any chance the Winchester has flash retardant? |
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Posted: 10/31/2005 1:42:59 PM EDT
[#42]
Update:
Inventories reflected on the bulk ammo site are not "real time" so the faster, the better. I do not expect these to still be here tomorrow morning but will update you! |
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Posted: 10/31/2005 4:35:26 PM EDT
[#43]
Order placed for 5,000rds.
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Posted: 10/31/2005 8:40:58 PM EDT
[#44]
M193 is loaded hotter than commercial ammo, so even with powder that is comparitively low-flash, you're still going to get plenty of flash unless you have a good FS. Hot loads = unburned gasses = flash. The problem will be worse with shorter barrels. -Troy |
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Posted: 11/1/2005 6:54:28 AM EDT
[#45]
At last look I only had a couple of cases of the XM193 left....
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Posted: 11/1/2005 8:27:19 AM EDT
[#46]
This batch of XM193 is now sold out...will post when we receive more!
Thanks! Wholesale Hunter |
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Posted: 11/1/2005 8:29:32 AM EDT
[#47]
I ordered 1k rounds this morning and was goin to order another 1k for the hell of it...
oh well |
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Posted: 11/2/2005 2:40:16 PM EDT
[#48]
tagged...been looking for XM193 for a decent price...glad I found this thread.
Wholesale Hunter, any idea how long before the order I placed today might be filled? Thanks! |
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Posted: 11/2/2005 5:03:54 PM EDT
[#49]
I have always been very pleased with the XM193s performance and reliability but if the supplies of XM193 increase in price much more or dry up I will switch to Winchester Q3131. As a matter of fact I think I will try a few cases as soon as I find out who has the best pricing on it.
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Posted: 11/3/2005 5:44:34 AM EDT
[#50]
These sold out in less than 24 hours, we are at the mercy of the manufacturer for more shipments... |
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