TT = Tactical Tailor, they make an aftermarket set of ALICE straps called super straps that are pretty comfortable.  I didn't care for the MOLLE 2 straps, but that's just me.

Enforcer...I got a question for you.....how sold is your wasit belt on your hell cats?  I've got mine more or less assembled how I think it needs to be (except for the pack itself which isn't here yet) and I've got a bit of side to side play where the waist belt attaches to the frame.

Once i get the waist belt sorted out I'm going to strap 2 25lb plates to the frame and go for a 3 mile walk.

There will be a little play in the kidney belt. So far it hasn't ben a problem.; if you tighten it down too hard; it deforms the belt.  Foe now I've never had a problem w/ the play. Once the load is in place it stabilizes quite nicely.

Yeah I found that out....90lbs, 2miles, and 42 min 33 seconds later....I'm not certain that my shoulder straps are hooked up right though.  On the part that attaches to the ALICE frame I've got the lower part below the center support, and the upper one above.  The longer thicker strap goes to the bottom of the frame and loops back up.  Since there's not a slot for it I just put it off to one side.  I took the QR part of the shoulder straps off and looped them around the vertical tube part of the frame as well in that 2 inch space between the sheet metal.  I'm not sure if it's supposed to go there or loop them through the hole in the side of the frame.

I also have contact the seller, one of my lifters is bunk.  It's not holding the webbing, it just slips right through.

I almost have the how to completed; can't finish tonight but will get posted sometime tomorrow morning ....hang in there  BTW....the loop for the shoulder straps goes thru the round hole on each side of the kidney brace at the bottom of the frame, the bottom of the alice ruck attaches in the triangular gap between the tubing and the wide angular brace extending down to the kidney brace. I'll have all this in my post tomorrow. be patient

LOL BUT I WANT IT NOOOOOOOOW!!!!!!!

Sounds good, I've got a bunch of work I gotta do tonight, and tomorrow I was planning on doing another ruck walk, this time 35lbs and 5miles, so it couldn't come at a better time.  I also fixed my lifter on my shoulder strap, stupid me put the damn slider on upside down.  I also moved the shoulder straps to that hole before I read your post...I saw an ALICE pack today and saw that is where the straps attach to, so I've got it there now.  I've also got the shoulder straps I think correctly mounted finally....I had them way to low.  I can't wait to see the how-to , thanks again for making it

As promised here's my how to








This is my version of the ALICE/MOLLE hybrid that I call the ALLE Pack or "Hellcat";  The ALICE/MOLLE systems are inexpensive; plentiful and solid platforms from which to build a hybrid ruck. Hopefully this post will help you assemble a Hellcat without any difficulty or maybe give you some additional ideas on how to develope your own hybrid.








Lets first start with all the components needed to assemble the Hellcat.

1. ALICE frame and medium ruck
2. one set MOLLE shoulder straps
3. one MOLLE moulded kidney belt
4. one MOLLE sleep system carrier




All of these items can be purchased for between $50-$70; even less if you shop around.



STEP 1: Inspecting and attaching medium ALICE ruck to the frame



Inspect the frame for cracks and loose rivets; rivets should be tight as well as the joined parts; repair or replace the frame if it is damaged.





Slip the medium ruck over the frame



Loosen the bottom attachment straps on the ruck and slip the strap through the triangular holes created by kidney brace at the bottom of the frame. DON"T OVER TIGHTEN at this point. You want some play so the ruck can expand properly while loading. Once your pack is loaded then these straps can be tightened.









STEP 2: Preparing the MOLLE Shoulder straps


First start by removing the short attachment strap at the top of the shoulder straps(they are attached to the load lifter straps); once both are removed set them aside; keep up with them because you will need them in a few minutes.





Next inspect and prepare the flat "yoke" portion of the MOLLE straps. There is a long wide strap tacked in the center with a large fastex buckle under neath it; separate the two if they have been fastened together. next you will notice two sets of attachment straps running parallel to the yoke. Leave the straps in the buckles of the top set(you will not need these) but loosen and remove the straps from the bottom set on both sides.








Next, fold the long center strap up  so that it falls over the top of the shoulder straps.







Don't worry about the top set of attachment straps; we'll fold those over and tuck them later in the assembly






STEP 3: Attaching the MOLLE shoulder straps


Lay the pack down and place the prepped shoulder straps in this approximate position; keeping them centered with the long center strap protruding from the top



next take the short attachment straps that you had set aside and slip into the fastex buckle from the top . This the same buckle you  just removed them from.





it should look like this when you are done



Now you are going to slip the end of this strap under the top of the frame and thru the slot; then it will go thru the small d ring attachment on the alice ruck









Now slip it back thru the buckle and back thru again...snugging it down. It should look like this when you are finished. Repeat the process for the other shoulder strap.






Now we begin attaching the long center strap; pull it over the top of the frame and push or tuck the strap  down between the frame and the ruck









Once you have the strap tucked, lay the pack down so the underside of the frame is exposed







This in my opinion is where the MOLLE shoulder straps really show their worth; you can now adjust for torso fit/length. Something you could never do with issue straps or after market enhancements. In the pics above I have shown you can have as much as 5 inches of adjustment; so realistically you can adjust for about 15-20 inches of torso length. For now we will go ahead and secure the straps and adjust for torso fit later.

Adjust the straps so that they are a couple of inches below the top of the frame; as illustrated in the last pic above. Next wrap the strap around the center cross members as shown in the next pics. You can wrap several times but once is enough, this will make torso fit a little easier.







Flip up the yoke of the MOLLE straps and feed the long strap thru the buckle and tighten securely.







Attach the side bottom strap as shown; looping it around the frame and threading thru the buckle; snug down; then do the other side; adjusting so it is centered. Fold and tuck the loose ends.









Separate  the lower portion of the shoulder straps using the quick release mechanism (be carefull at this point; IMO the quick release is the weakest link in the MOLLE system and can be broken if forced open). Once released take the loop end and feed thru the round hole on the bottom of the frame; feed from outside to inside. Slip the QR end thru the loop and tighten.








Reattach the QR end back to the shoulder straps and you are done with attaching the MOLLE straps


STEP 4: Attaching the MOLLE kidney belt


First, place the kidney pad as shown to ready it for attachment. THIS IS THE CORRECT POSITION. The hump should go down.  Install this pad upside down and you'll kick the Hellcat to the curb like I almost did two years ago. I put it on upside down because it looked like it belonged that way. Nevermind that I could clearly see the MOLLE assembly instructions show the hump goes down. I paid for that bit of arrogance with two bleeding blisters the size of my hand on each side of my butt.  Again "HUMP GOES DOWN".





next, flip it over to one side and feed the straps thru the metal slot and attach to the buckles; snug the straps down







Flip the belt back over and feed the straps thru the other side; attach to the buckles and snug down.







Do not tighten so hard that you deform the belt. There is going to be some play;  but under load this has never been a problem. You are now finished attaching the MOLLE kidney belt.



STEP 5: Attaching the MOLLE sleep system carrier


We are now on the last leg to assembling the Hellcat; first thing to do is stuff a pillow into the ruck so as to give it some shape and offer some resistance while attaching the sleep system. You may want to give the carrier some bulk as well; but this step is optional.





after you have cinched the top of the ruck, lay it down so that you can see the bottom and the two lashing loops; these will be the primary points of attachment to the ruck.





next, disconnect the fastex QR buckles on the sleep carrier; remove the male end from the straps and set aside. You will also want to slide the elastic keepers off as well.









Next you'll slide the cinch straps out of all the their respective "strap loops"; three on each side untill your carrier looks like this; this is the top view of the carrier.





As a point of reference; the lashing loops of the ruck will set between the carrier handle and the rear top strap loops





Slide the cinch straps thru the rucks lashing loops and then thru the top rear strap loops of the carrier









The sleep system carrier is now attached to the bottom of the ruck; but it's not stable at this point. We now attach it to the frame by running both cinch straps up the back of the ruck and over the cross support of the frame









Once you are over the cross support bring the cinch straps down; threading them thru the slots at the bottom of the frame; feed them through the flat side and exit the channel side. Snug them down securely





the straps will now wrap around the bottom of the frame, ready to be threaded thru the second set of strap loops







Once you've threaded them; snug them up to the frame and thread the cinch straps thru the bottom front strap loops; reattach the male ends of the fastex buckles and slide the elastic keepers back on. I kept mine off.






Now your Hellcat is ready for business; you should have a pack that looks just like one of these









Hopefully this wasn't too confusing; like any system not all of these may work for you. I have found this particular hybrid to be very forgiving and rock solid; but it's only as good as the person putting it together. Assemble it using the ALICE and MOLLE parts properly and the Hellcat should take you there and back.

Enforcer


BTW; I didn't forget about torso fitting; I'll come back a little later this evening and post on how to size the pack.


EDIT FOR TORSO FIT


As promised here is a guide for proper torso fit and pack adjustment. Once you have familiarized your self with torso fit and adjustment guides you will find the Hellcat has ALL the modern adjustments that are common on todays commercial packs. First read these links to REI's backpack adjustment guides

Finding Your Torso and Hip Size

Adjusting the Fit

Points of reference for torso adjustment should be the notch ( C-7 ) at the top of the shoulder pads and the midpoint of the hip pad( line of iliac crest). Remember these are just references; but I believe they will get you in the right ball park.









Loosen the side and torso attachment straps...you don't have to remove them.....measure your torso length; move the shoulder straps up or down accordingly and retighten the attachment straps. EDIT I have another comment here and I have added a couple of more pics. You must also loosen the load lifters significantly for torso fit. I just recently fit my 10 yo (Webelo II) and his torso length was 14 inches. No surprise it worked fantastic. The bonus for him was we were able to use the second set of side attachment straps and the load sets higher for better balance. The beauty is this adjustment can be reset as he matures, giving him use of the pack well into his adulthood(the Hellcat will probably outlast him)













You should now be fitted for torso length. Readjust load lifters; sternum strap; hip belt and tweak lower adjustment on shoulder strap per the REI guide. The next two pics show the difference in height of shoulder straps and load lifter straps. The top pick is mine set at a torso length of 18 inches; the bottom pic is of my 10 yo's set at o torso length of 14 inches.







In case you didn't know these are the parts refered to in the REI article "adjusting the fit"


Load Lifters




Sternum strap




Shoulder strap adjustment




Stabilizer strap.... notice it is not on the kidney belt.... it's the strap I told you not to tighten until the ruck was loaded






Quick release... most of us will never use this other than for convenience during assembly/disassembly



Now you have it; all the tools for proper fit and load stabilization of your Hellcat.


Enforcer

lol wow I really had my shit on wrong.....I didn't have the torso adjuster on in teh correct spot at all.  I tested it out the correct way and I think it worked a bit better....tomorrow I'll try it the way I had it to compare.

raf,

Thanks for the comments; as far as the delete; not even sure what it was.....no harm no foul  BTW I have the same thread running in the BOB stickie in the survival gear forum felt it was just as applicable there as well. I hope the moderators don't mind the double post of sorts

Enforcer - thanks a million.  That's one of the most useful posts I've ever seen.

Agreed. I just ordered the components I needed last night off of Ebay. I had a hard time finding the Molle waistbelt, straps, and sleep sack all in one place, but I pulled it off and paid about $30 for all three.

Edit: Received my gear today. It appeared to be used maybe once. I was confused on certain parts of the assembly, but in the end everything turned out well.

A very poor pic of my flat Hellcat.

Matt,

Just saw the edit and pic; your hellcat looks great! Good job! Now you need to hump it and put it to the test. Let me know what parts of the assembly were confusing so I can clarify it for you.

I'd like some feed back from anyone else who has assembled the hybrid hellcat. Please post or send me IM's; I'll be glad to help anyway I can.

This is a great thread.  I have lots of ALICE gear leftover from my days in the Marines ( 0311).  It's great hard use stuff.  I saw earlier in the postings somebody is using zipties in place of the clips.  This is a great idea for everyone to try.  I used this trick for three years and it woked great.  Lighter and quieter.  Take all those clips of and hold them in your hand and see how much they weigh.  Also easier to find and replace if need be.  Time to dig that stuff out and do some updating.  

On the topic of S.A.W. pouches...I use to keep one on my left hip.  Always keep my map, compass, admin stuff in it.

I went ahead and tried out the MOLLE 2 shoulder straps on mine, and it's awesome.  I've honestly never had a pack so comfortable, and still carry as much stuff as this.  It's just an incredible rig.  I added 2 MOLLE 2 medic pockets, and i'm waiting on some sustainment pouches to try.  Thanks again for such a great writeup.

I'm glad to hear you guys are having success with the Hybrid. I Helped a Dad in my scout troop rig a Hellcat using a large alice ruck. It was very sweet. The sleep system carrier works really well under the lg ruck due to the lashing loops being closer together. Heres a couple of pics I took after we put it together and fit him for torso length. You shouldn't have any hesitation using the lg alice ruck





BTW I contacted Down East a few weeks ago; they are the primary MFG of the MOLLE frames for the Def Dept. They have a new lightweight frame for airborne operations; when I saw it I new this might make the Hellcat an option if you didn't have a alice frame. They sent me a demo so I could fit a alice ruck to it. All they wanted in return were pics of my finished product. After recieving the frame I figured it out in about 15min. You will need no mods to the frame or ruck. Once I adapted it I realized the same mod will work for the larger MOLLE frame as well. Everyone had always told me the alice rucks would NOT work on the MOLLE frames with out seriously modifying the frames; they were wrong, no frame modification needed, just about a dollars worth of Fastex parts. I will post some picks as soon as I get it assembled. Just picked up a the parts I needed from REI today.

If you are in need of a new alice frame they are manufactured in central city iowa for the department of defense.  They are not sure why they still have an open contract on them but they are still shipping them new to the military.  The also make aluminum tent stakes for the government there.  Thy have a retail surplus store and you should be able to get new frames from them if you needed them.  http://www.ccmilitarysurplus.com/  just my contribution to the thread

I'm very very interested to see how the down east airborne frame works with this setup.  I thought about ordering one myself, but i'll wait for your pics.........and there better be pics!!!

I had no idea about the different sized ALICE frames; is it USGI or AUSI? The australians have ALICE compatable gear that is hitting the surplus market and from some of the pics I have seen the frame was a little different.  Would really like to see a pic if possible? Glad to hear all is working out with the hybrid.

Bump to the front found my old LBE set will post later.

Not so much a complete LC-2 Alice setup, but I thought you guys might get a kick out of this.  Some alice components I used during my recent trip to Iraq:

Current state after deployment.  I wore this belt rig UNDER my body armor and chest rig.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/Dozer77/DSC01691.jpg

I used two USGI LC-2 mag pouches to carry 2 smoke grenades and two frags (1 and 1 each)  These ammo pouches hold smokes more securely as well as protct the pins from accidentally being pulled out.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/Dozer77/005-1.jpg

I later removed them since the area calmed down and I was already carrying 2 smokes and grags on my chest rig for a totalof four.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/Dozer77/patrol19dec2007008.jpg

I got ten years in and I have witnessed the transition of the Army regarding equipment.  I spent my first two years in Ranger Battalion where we wore Alice gear over our Ranger Body Armor or RBA (using the belt extender for this) and was actually one of the first soldiers in my unit to be issued Molle equipment.  It was issued to rifleman as a kit of multiple pouches.  This set up was labeled R.A.C.K- Ranger Assault Carrying Kit.  My Team Leader was pretty pissed that I got it and he didn't.

That being said, a lot of guys began to turn their LCE pistol belts around, jack up the suspenders real tight and put their mag pouches to the front, effectivley creating a chest rig out of alice gear.

I then went to Korea where I was intrduced to the LBV setup.  I didn't get much use out of it as I was an anti tank gunner on a HMMWV and I was required to wear the new IBA to protect me in case of an accident.

It wasn't until I was stationed at a Ft. Lewis Stryker Brigade that I was introduced to HEAVY gear mods and freedom to buy my own equipment (Tactical Tailor has their shop about 5 minutes from post).  Over my two deployments to Iraq since then I have spent quite a bit of money on MOLLE gear (much to my wife's chagrine), which most of it has worked for me, or I traded it of to someone who had something I needed.  Thing about MOLLE gear is, unless you have everything together at one time- you may not have a chnace to know if it will work for your setup.  The thing with ALICE gear when I came in was- IT DOESN'T MATTER- SHUT UP AND PUT IT ON!!  Hands down, bang for buck, the ALICE stuff is durable.  I have seen a lot of gear failures from some highly reputable manufacturers, but I don't think I ever saw a pice of ALICE equipment fail.    

As for the issue of Ruck/Alice gear compatibility:  It's EASY- either above or below.  No buttpack.  Nothing to the rear.  Waist straps were strapped and taped to the rear of the ruck in a pretty permanent fashion as donning and doffing the ruck quickly was a priority.  I just bought an ALICE ruck from Tactical Tailor with super straps and kidney pad.  The ruck is AWESOME , but I bought in Multi-Cam for Afghanistan and now my Command Sergeant Major has banned anything BUT MOLLE rucks from use.  I haven't even rucked with it yet...........  The new gen of molle ruck is a lot better, but I'd take an ALICE anyday.

I read a guy posting earlier about chest rigs are the way to go with a ruck, but from what I understand most guys using the ALICE stuff here are having fun with some good cheap gear.  A chest rig with subloads is great for Iraq's (mostly urban) patrolling of 6-12 hours, but for longer operations spanning multiple days, I think you guys will get more use out of the ALICE/LBV type gear.  At least that is my opinion.  I plan on completely kitting myself out with gear from FMCO as I will probably be able to carry evrything I need for a three day patrol in the Hindu Kush utilizing the FMCO integrated system equipment.  If it is not enough then I always have my Kifaru assault pack set up with a but load of MOLLE pouches.

I can just imagine the sight of thousands of US partisans kitted out in ALICE gear if the sh-t ever REALLY hits the fan...........

Oh yeah and I used zup ties to attach the ALICE pouches to the MOLLE belt from the new ACU FLC

Zip ties have become the new 550 cord.  Try teaching these guys an end of the line bowline...........

Can't tell you how many push-ups we did until we all could get this, the clove hitch, and the figure eight tied correctly.  

Enforcer any updates on the new frame?

I was looking at the new BHI catologe and I saw the LRAK


My thought was this kit can easily and cheaply be duplicated using ALICE gear.
One LBV with a (padded) pistol belt, then from the belt just attach a bunch of SAW pouches.

This kind of rig would be great for SAR personnel or WEMTs who will be spending a ton of time in the woods. with the packs all being at waist level you'd have no problem adding a pack to it.

Great SHTF rig for being in the middle of no where for forever.It would be much better than the chest stuff designed and tested on the streets of Iraq.

Enforcer thanks for the instructions on the Hellcat. Dude that is the most comfortable my ALICE pack has ever been. I can't tell you how many miles I have put on the old style frame and straps and the sore muscles to go with it. This is like heaven in comparison.

Say whaaa???



got any links to some info on that?  I'd love to read up on what kind of stuff they're wanting to field.



 

I see that zippered sleeping system compartment failing like crazy....it's one of the reason why I hate zippers on packs.



 

TimJ, your set up is almost identical to my set up. I dropped the butt pack and doubt I would add it back on. I temporarily replaced the SAW pouch with a fourth mag pouch. At the time, a friend needed the SAW pouch and I only needed something to carry an extra smoke/CS. I really like the chest rigs available today, especially the modularity and ability to customize them to use with mount/dismount ops from vehicles but there is something about the old Alice gear...

TimJ,
Ahh, the good ole OG107 days! I am with you on the legacy & ops part. I still have my ruck, my LBE setup and my kevlar. I agree with your assessment on familiararity as I am more comfortable, fluid and instinctive with my LBE. I have one of the woodland MOLLE vests that is a pretty good set up but again, all of my real training and experience is with my LBE. I need to post pics of my LBE as well. Thanks for taking the time to post your pics.

Time frame you were at campbell, Tablesalt?  I still have my kpot, lbe and ruck also.


85-90

Matt that rack system is Blackhawk geartard can tell by the color of the woodland pattern.

nevermind, wrong thread

I actually converted a PEAK 1 frame to work with my ALICE pack.



Much better system

Anyone know a good place online I can buy used alice and molle gear on the cheap?  I found one place that seemed to have good prices, I almost had everything for the hellcat at $50.  Then they tacked on $30 shipping for upsground which seems excessive to me.