Please read-through to end of thread.  I am still learning about this gear and have recently discovered some potentially useful things.  So have some other posters, and TYVM.

Recently received a full set of B/W field gear.  VENDOR'S PIX

Initial impressions:

Soft nylon canvas chest harness and waist belt UNSAT, even with wash-in water repellant; absorbs excessive water, and rather slow to dry.  My waist belt will fit 45" waist at full extension, but other OEM sizes of belt are available.  Might be possible to substitute "common" "2" QD buckles for unique OEM QD plastic buckles, and so make use of common "Waist Belt Extenders", if required when using heavy clothing.

Shoulder harness, at its' limits, will fit 6'3" person and allow belt to sit at hip points--Pelvic arches.  Waist belt has 4 x 1" Tri-glide buckled chest harness attachment points, allowing substitution of different harnesses.  B/W nylon canvas chest harness has an adjustable sternum strap, and attachment points at top rear for an auxiliary pack.  Harness has 2 attachment points on chest for small pouches, such as the B/W "flashlight" pouch.

Both Waist belt and Shoulder harness are made of nylon, albeit a much "softer" sort of nylon than users of USGI nylon gear are familiar with.  As such, they have a tendency to become a bit "furry" after use, with loose nylon strands being the "fur".  Those wishing to remove such water and crud absorbing "fur" can, after "spot" repairs are made, use a common propane torch, with triangular spreader tip and set as low as possible, to very quicky and carefully swipe the surfaces of belt/shoulder harness and melt away the "fur".   After that, using some decent "Wash-In" water repellant chems seems wise, as this type of nylon takes a long time to dry out.  After that spraying with DWR seems wise.

Due to their unique nylon fabric, both waist belt and shoulder harness absorb and retain much more dirt than one would expect; multiple washings likely required to fully clean them and to provide decent base for any waterproofing chems.

Waist belt has a Huge number of wide grommets. Likely a user-installed closed-cell foam belt pad can be easily made/bought and installed.  Different sizes of waistbelt were originally available.  AFAIK, M/Lg/XLg/XXLg available on E-bay.  Sizing info concerning belts is a bit scant and somewhat unreliable.

Surplus DPM Brit Hip Pad will fit onto these waistbelts, and highly recommended.

ETA: What was sold to me as a "Large" belt is 41-1/4" end-to-end of belt itself, exclusive of closure webbing/strap.  What I presumeto be a "Medium" belt is 30-1/2" end-to-end of belt itself, exclusive of closure webbing/buckle.  Max adjustments of both belts will fit approx max 45" waist.

"Butt Pack" is reminiscent of similar GI item but lacks lower straps to attach items.  Top Adjustable straps too short for any but the smallest items. No Side-mounted attachment points for pouches.  In short, inferior to most GI Butt packs or close clones.

Pouches have typical "Spanish Tab" closure, which many like.  Pouches are of typical "rubberized" fabric.  Some "trim"/binding around pouches may be cotton or nylon fabric, with nylon being preferred.

Although the colors used in this shade of Flecktarn may seem a bit "dark" to some, there is nothing stopping the user from applying some appropriate, lighter-colored splotches using appropriate paint and some bits of sponge.

Due to BW Unique pouch/belt attachment system, pouches are NOT readily attached to platforms using other attachment systems.  There are Mil-Spec "Alice Adaptors" available at $15 a pop, although Midway has some for $4 each.  OTOH, it ought to be possible for custom-sewists to make adaptors for BW gear which will accept modern Malice Clips.  Being "niche" items/platform, don't hold your breath.

OTOH, if you can afford to buy "ALICE adaptors" or have the equipment/skill to make similar adaptors (See post #13 below), then the utility of these pouches/bags/butt packs expands dramatically, as the "adapted" items can be mounted on ALICE/MOLLE/PALS platforms.

Common MOLLE/PALS items can be mounted on the 3-1/2" wide German belt but will need to be horizontally secured; Wire-ties/paracord come to mind.

Fleckarn Bundeswehr Flashlight Pouches  may be suitable for larger Streamlight Sidewinder light. I have not tried this, but dimensions of pouch seem suitable.  An "ALICE" adaptor for such pouch will be required.  Lid is secured by 2 strips of velcro; lowest strip secures flap closed, upper strip secures lid in upper position, which reveals "window" for light.

TLDR: Forget these items, specifically the pouches/carriers, unless you own a boatload of it and are willing to make it work as "Hand-Out" gear, or much better, to find/make pouch adaptors suitable for use on ALICE/MOLLE/PALS platforms.  Doing this makes these pouches MUCH more useful. With suitable Mods/Upgrades it can certainly be serviceable.

Is it inferior to the WWII Wehrmacht stuff?

I have two sets of the Flecktarn gear with the OD belt and braces. Everything was hit with DWR and one has a padded hip belt. For classically-style LBE, it's really good stuff. Notions of modularity were much different back when this was designed. Very comfortable arrangement and the pouches have proven to be durable.

I was just looking at some of this stuff to build up a G36 rig.  Just see it everywhere and have no clue what is what.

Likely an improvement, but no expert.

Raf, do you have photos or a link to what gear you're referring to?

Pictures are worth a THOUSAND Words.

Bigger_Hammer

Now you've done it.

raf doesn't understand that unboxing usually means it includes some form of visual representation, whether it's a video, some pictures, or even a crayon drawing by either a 6-year-old child or a dementia-riddled 70-year-old.

Don't you understand, there are plenty of pictures of the subject matter all over the internet? If you care enough about the subject matter, you can use the Google machine, by God!

I think he Is referring to the flecktarn LKS webbing. Or KTS.  It came out in 1988 in OD and since 1995 in flecktarn. It Is basically an enhanced Canadian pattern '82 webbing.

Probably not in US, but in Europe there was quite a bit of After market components for It (think like FMCO catalog was for Alice) up until the mid 00s, even the early tasmanian Tiger and tacgear vests still had provision for attaching a couple of extra LKS pouches.


Funnily enough german special forces would use British After market webbing sets.

This

Or this (shown with rare padding set for shoulder straps and belt)

This Is now they are fastened to the belt (lower part can be opened and closed After upper part Is rotated in position)


Those are the alice adapters that mount as shown

Not sure if joking or not, but searching "Ancient German bundewehr field gear" seemed to lack specificity.


Thanks Joe, that's what I was looking for.

I have a full bundeswehr and DDR uniform

Maybe it's just me, but that stuff has a turn of the century, steam punk vibe to it.  All you need are the derby hat and goggles.

And maybe those tall logger boots.  

Speaking of Bundeswehr/DDR kit, when I was a wee lad, stationed in Germany, it was all the rage to take the train to Berlin and trade out Levis n stuff for DDR kit.  The most (in)famous lad in our class, Tor Strasborg, (yes I believe his mother was Norwegian), strutted into class one day with a gen-u-wine DDR belt buckle.  Oh the scandal!  He was frog-marched to the principal's office and parents called (full Colonel's kid btw).  Always wondered if he ended up working for the Company or something.

This thread reminds me that I need some 30 round STANAG mag pouches for at least one of sets. It is cool kit. Good for its time, but there are clearly better options today. I like it better than ALICE, but I'd rate it behind PLCE. The scope carrying pouches work great for Nalgenes with the plastic insert removed.

The adaptors from Midway (linked above) are about the cheapest I've seen recently, but I question whether or not they will accept short Malice clips; slots may be too narrow.  Might be possible to "trim" short Malice clips to fit OEM adaptor slots without undue weakening of the Malice clips, IDK.  Certainly, worth a try.  There may be other pouches with a "unique" attachment similar to the B/W pouches (some Canadian pouches come to mind) and it may possible to create adaptors which will allow use of such pouches without destroying original pouch attachment device.

Slightly cheaper adaptors available HERE  Check shipping prices, and shop around for better deals.  Please post if better deals are found.

I have very limited experience with these "store-bought" adaptors, and I can't speak to the long-term durability of any of them.  Quality of thread used is essential.  Caveat Emptor.

My B/W Gas Mask bag came with original shoulder sling, which interfaces with unique B/W attachments on G/M bag.  This ought to be Easy to make and can be attached to other B/W items as desired, such as the "butt pack" and the "messenger bag".

Anyone with some appropriate webbing, a sewing machine (or even a "Speedy-Stitcher sewing Awl), some appropriate Internal Diameter blackened brass grommets with installation kit, and some Short Malice clips one can make adaptors which will secure this pattern of Bundeswehr pouches to either ALICE or MOLLE/PALS platforms--and for cheap.

With custom-made (or possibly "trimmed") Short Malice clip adaptors, most of the B/W Flecktarn pouches can become rather decent candidates for general use on ALICE/MOLLE/PALS platforms.

The internally rubberized fabric of the B/W items is pretty resistant to the edges of the fabric unravelling, unlike USGI items with typical polyurethane coating and unbound fabric edges.  The B/W pouches are pretty stout and pretty well-made pouches. I suspect the heavy rubberized internal coating on the fabric weighs more than the polyurethane coating on USGI pouches, but is far more durable, along with not requiring binding of edges of fabric.  Trade-off.

For those wishing to "retrofit" existing pouches to the unique B/W platform, these items are available HERE

One of the canteen pouches sent to me had 3/4 sides of the tab-securing plastic loop become unstitched.  Vendor sent me a free replacement.  Afterwards, I discovered that it is possible to sew such plastic loops back on, by matching holes in plastic with existing holes in rubberized fabric inside of pouch.  Done carefully, a thimble isn't even needed.

It's cool kit.  I've dabbled with a couple pouches.  I have a thing for flecktarn.  However, raf is right about it's shortcomings - that and it's expensive to piece together a full set.  A good bit more than a set of alice or PLCE, both of which are superior.  Unless you want that cool retro flecktarn steampunkish (like diz said) look.  

If you're into cool military stuff or just love flecktarn, I wouldn't say no to picking up a full set if you found one cheap.  But I have yet to find a full set, let alone one cheap.  It's decent working gear and nothing WRONG with it.  It's just...not ideal.  You can't even retrofit it by sewing the pouches directly to a diy modern padded belt, which would make the pouches useful.  You can do that with PLCE pouches, but the german pouches have that weird hard plastic attachment system that you can't cut off (you can cut off the British hard attachment stuff on the old plce pouches) and that hard bit would poke you, even through a padded belt.



Completely different ballgame.  It's got more modern materials and a better LBE harness setup.  And is set up to carry modern magazines. For this reason, it's probably better.  But then again, you don't have 90% of your troops carrying mausers.  Which is what the ww2 stuff was built around.

As said above: "Anyone with some appropriate webbing, a sewing machine (or even a "Speedy-Stitcher sewing Awl), some appropriate Internal Diameter blackened brass grommets with installation kit, and some Short Malice clips one can make adaptors which will secure this pattern of Bundeswehr pouches to either ALICE or MOLLE/PALS platforms--and for cheap.

With custom-made (or possibly "trimmed") Short Malice clip adaptors, most of the B/W Flecktarn pouches can become rather decent candidates for general use on ALICE/MOLLE/PALS platform."

For the prices the LKS rigs are going for, it would probably be cheaper to find and buy Flecktarn MOLLE pouches and start there.

If one really needs a set, I have an extra.

LKS rigs?  Can you expand?

The surplus Flecktarn sets.

That was my main argument against them.  They are expensive for what you get, at least piecing together a full set.  

If pouches were like $5 or $10 / each, then sure, they would be a viable, if not optimal option.  And you can't even find all the pouches all the time, at least from the same places.  Which makes putting together a full set even more expensive because of shipping.

I got mine on the tail end of the cheap days. The one thing about surplus is that it always dries up. No way I'd go out of my way for a set now. Same goes for ALICE gear.

It is retro cool though.  I'm a big flecktarn fan, I got in on the salad days with the $3 / pair flecktarn trousers and shirts and smocks and such.  I've got a couple boxes of them in storage still.

Preach it. I have a half dozen pants in Flecktarn and Tropentarn, plus parkas, Goretex, combat jackets. Really high-quality stuff that was available for cheap. Too bad some current world event is hoovering up surplus/new production.

Yea those flecktarn smocks were my first real smocks.  Before that I had been rocking oversized BDU tops and an M-65 field jacket with my alice gear and pack.  I just wish I had bought some oversized flecktarn SHIRTS.  They make good, somewhat fashionable overshirts / light jackets.  

Possibly controversial opinion: I like the Kraut windproof parka better than the Brit smock. Both need to be waterproofed, but the German one is a little sleeker overall.

They are definitely more fashionable.  I'm probably going to turn my german one into a winter daily wear type jacket.

I love the Brit stuff. I wear that shit all winter.

See, that's my conundrum, I have like 9 smocks and a few other field jackets to choose from.  

I HAD been rocking a M65 field jacket as my 'beater go to town' jacket until a wrestling session with my husky ended up with a ripped sleeve.  So now I'm trying to figure out what to replace it with next year.  I've got a old-model Helikon smock and the German Flecktarn smock I was down to last time I was thinking about it.

I own multiple M-65 fields coats in various camo patterns, all properly sized for my body (XL/Long).  Lucky me and being patient in finding/obtaining such coats. Available items/sizing for such items are different from when I bought my personal M-65 items.  Oddball sized items are always hard to find.  Finding identical oddball items would be FAR more expensive nowadays, at least in my size, then back when.

If I did not own decent and appropriately sized M-65 coats/jackets, I would purchase a decent and appropriately sized M-1943/M1944 Field Coat.  Available from many providers; do your research.  Being modern cotton/nylon blend fabric/stitching, allow for proper future waterproofing as needed.

Always buy appropriately sized accessory hood for such coats, which hood is a useful adjunct to M-1965 jackets.  Ask me how I know.

I just might pull the trigger on exactly such an M1943 coat, just because.  YMMV.

Try Venture Surplus. Or Americana Pipedream. Ive gotten good stuff from them both.

Much appreciated. Haven't checked out either in awhile.

@lew Info on "scope carrying pouches" suitable for nalgenes requested, including vendor for such, please.


NVM, found some.  Too rich for my blood at $45 per; I'll just use the much more common German canteen pouches.  I'll let you know if I find some STANAG 30-rd flecktarn mag pouches; rather uncommon.  I'm assuming you want such pouches with the unique German attachment system.

OTOH, Varusteleka  offers STANAG 1- and 2-mag pouches, which in M05 camo will "match" flecktarn fairly well.  OOS, but you can ask for notification when they come back into stock.  Not cheap, but very well made.  I have some.

@raf

That is correct on the magazine pouches. I'm not looking for MOLLE or anything newer; just the German LKS attachment system. They are rare. Even the Tropentarn G36 mag pouches have dried up.

I have a few Savotta packs. I've never seen a US-made pack built so well. I'd assume their pouches are of similar construction.

Cheers, mate!

I'd like some STANAG mag pouches as well, but hard to find.  Will send you a message as soon as I've "got mine", lol.

Understood. You get yers first. I'd do the same.

Here ya go:  https://www.zentauron.de/en/magazine-pouches/917-double-magazine-pouch-stanag.html

At that price, I think I'll hold off, but feel free to experiment with them.  @lew

Personally, I think I'd buy/use some decent MOLLE/PALS STANAG mag pouches, of appropriate color/camo, use some small sponges to apply appropriate splotches paint to them, and call it good.

MOLLE/PALS items should fit typical German waist belt, which is a little over 2 PALS rows wide.  I think MOLLE/PALS pouches can be made to work well with this belt, although such MOLLE/PALS pouches will move horizontally unless otherwise horizontally "secured".  Plastic wire-ties/paracord come to mind.

Will let you know if I come across STANAG mag pouches with unique German attachment devices.   Unfortunately, such are neither common nor reasonably priced.

No Expert, but not sure such STANAG pouches were made in any quantity (if at all) for ancient BW gear.

With shipping, that's a bit rich. They look nice.

This isn't anything close to my primary rig, so there's little need for me to swap out the G3 mag pouches unless I get a good deal. Thanks for sharing that, though!

I would have sworn that, back in the heyday of cheap Flecktarn gear, there was a “doppelmagazintasche” for the G36, with the plastic green plastic grommet attachment hardware, available everywhere for cheap.
I imagine they’d fit three metal M4 mags just fine.

For the life of me, I can’t even find a picture anywhere online. Just like the mountain rucks, should have snagged them when they were cheap. Live and learn

Lots of G3 pouches available, but I've neither seen a pic nor a for-sale listing of a Bundeswehr G36 mag pouch in this unique pattern of gear.

I'll keep looking and If I find some for a reasonable price, I'll report back with info.  I hope others will do the same.

ETA: SINGLE-Mag Flecktarn G36 pouch HERE  OD green plastic attachment

I actually found a vendor of Flectarn 2-mag pouches, albeit with MOLLE/PALS attachment --which "should" work.  I bought the last 3 pouches they had.

In lieu of "daubing" sponge-applied paint on a pouch, Pencott "Green Zone" camo is a pretty close match for Flecktarn


@lew

Did we talk about these pouches yet, raf?

I'm not a fan of the Fastex buckle closure, but my objection is only so slight.

I prefer the "Spanish" tab closure device, but others may differ.  Any "Decent Port" during a storm, so to speak, since these items are scarce.

At stated price, and if shipping is not excessive, I'd buy them.  Likely last chance.

As we spoke about earlier, "I got mine" and sorry I exhausted the supply from vendor.  That's the way it goes.  I'll advise if similar items pop up, but these ancient BW items are getting mighty scarce nowadays.  I believe that most MOLLE mag pouches will interface pretty well with ancient BW belts.  See comments above.

I am just sooooo pissed about that.



Take care of yourself first. No worries on that. I'm gonna take the jump on the ones I linked. I only need two since I'm going leave one rig for 7.62N mags.

Single mag pouch I linked in my post above is also from same vendor.

FYI, SG has a couple new Fleck pouches available.


MP2 pouch

Flashlight pouch. (5 x 3 x 2)

I may unload my Fleck, since I dislike the attachment system, so it's just been sitting.

More later.

Much obliged for advice!

So, I have long had an addiction interest in Milsurp.

In terms of tactical gear, I collected some flectarn.  I also have a DPM Osprey vest and kit.  I recently assembled USAF ABU vest and kit.

I am now interested in Danish M84/96/whatever Fleck.

To date the only Danish pattern stuff I have seen available here is very limited.  I grabbed a couple "feldflaskhylster" Canteen Pouches from SG.

https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/danish-military-surplus-molle-equipment-pouch-new?a=2164720

Colemans had at one point the LMG pouches.  I haven't seen any other Danish fleck kit, aside from full packs and clothing.

SG does now have the suspenders/yokes.  I ordered those.


So looking at the back of the Danish gear, I see it is the PLCE pattern.  So I did more research and the light when on.  10 years ago it was "WTF is this attachment system on the back of my UK DPM woodland respirator bag"?


I managed to find some LMG pouches from gomiltar.com in Lithuania and ordered 3.  They are currently in customs.

At this point I am (mostly) realizing the futility of tracking more down, and am thinking I will just spray paint the patterns.
So that leaves me looking at either UK DPM PLCE (and there is a ton of stuff affordable priced for one more international order), or
getting whatever I can with the same quick release "Spanish Fly" closure.  So I will see what I can get which leaves me PLCE or MOLLE (Dutch of some UK Desert DPM pattern kit).

The UK DPM order also means I could affordable get an entire kit and see how it is supposed to be laid out, with all the right equipment.

I will also look into reproducing my next favorite pattern, Tropentarn.  To date in the affordable milsurp world I have only seen clothing, toiletry bags, some MIL-TEC magazine bags and thin canvas toolbags.  Maybe a few odds and ends like a poncho.

Now, I do know where I can spend the bucks in the US and get it.  Hessen Antique is a treasure trove of German gear.  It also has tons of historic reproduction gear for re-enactors and or movie companies.  They also have odds and ends of used Bundeswehr items.

They are also a source of fleck gear

Flectarn search

Another option I see at Hessen, which actually looks reasonable is to spring for vest and kit.  It actually makes it look reasonably priced, given its not surplus

This one actually looks quite reasonable, for new kit, harness and 8 pouches (including the tiny horizontal ones) and no spray painting @159.

Specialist Chest Rig

Fun fact- I ordered two of the Sportsman’s Guide Danish fleck canteen/pouch sets, and got them exactly as described.

I reordered, and got two LMG pouches instead.
I don’t know if I should be thrilled or angry.

When, you SOB?

Thrilled.

Interesting. Hessen has a lot of neat stuff available.

I'm hemmin' and hawwin' getting rid of the two sets and ancillaries I have as that would free up some shelf space. If selling wasn't such a pain, I'd probably have the stuff gone already. Definitely keeping the clothing, though.

I got the canteen pouches with AL canteens last summer (lost the damn canteens, for the life of me I can’t find them. I think my wife tossed them and is gaslighting me about them being “misplaced”)

I ordered another pair, along with a. Belt and suspenders 3-pack end of last year and got the LMG pouches with them. (Sept- I just went back to my account to verify order date)