I love the British sharpshooter mag pouches -3 ar-15 or 2 ar-10 mags.

12 pounds each - but shipping will bite you

https://www.kitmonster.co.uk/product_info.php/products_id/1720

I’m not an expert by any means. Got a picture? If it’s the panel loader dpm pack -that may also be known as an all arms bergen.

@Vexed,

Yes, the three AR15 mag Velocity Systems magazine pouches will easily fit two 25rd .308 PMags...with room to spare. You can rotate to sit either way, although flat to your body is best. These pouches also have the small loops for shock cord if you want some retention (something I'm going to add):





ROCK6

See link provided in my post above.

ETA: Pix of Brit "Other Ranks" (OR) Bergen    Note that side pouches (Rockets) are not attached.

@ ROCK6, Thank you for verifying this and the pics! Gonna order some soon. Awesome!

Hey guys, I could use some help.
My go fast stuff doesn't work with my long term stuff.
I read all 5 pages, checked all the links, the idea is sound and I want in
JayJay web gear with 4 utilities sewn in, 4 lightweight 3 mag pouches extra
Left side 3 mags/ first aid. Right side 3 mags/ nods and stuff
Where do I get the mesh yoke?
Where do I get the good bergan?
Do the bergan pouches zip into the yoke for a daypack?
I don't mind throwing some money at it, but since it seems to work as a system, I want really good parts.

@del
This is a great yoke and what I'm using:

MOLLE yoke

This is the short-back Bergen, comes with both zipper sustainment pouches:

Short bergen

You need another yoke for the two zippered pouches...I'm still working on that one

ROCK6

The side zip pouches that mount on the yoke for an assault pack seems like an important part.
Am I over thinking that? Just carry an extra day pack and don't be a pussy?
What's the point of zip off rocket packs, if I can't zip them on to something else?
Not being a smart ass, this is a cool system and I want it to work for me

I just carry an extra day pack.  I have a Hill People Gear tarahumara that I throw on the back or under the lid for day stuff.  I don't have the zip-off pockets setup, the small pack works for me and I think it would be faster and easier than unzipping and attaching the pockets ot the yoke.

I also use a Crossfire pack.  Aussie company, designed to work with this kinda setup.  They have a US distributor office so shipping will be cheaper.

Also, I think Crossfire has a pack lid that you can get that is designed to double as a day pack.  I read that somewhere.  I don't have one.

https://www.crossfirepacks.com

The pockets are designed to be zipped off so that you can run them with or without the pockets, or swap the pockets for other kinds (I've seen ones with mag pouches on the top and a smaller utility pouch below the magazine pouches instead of one big pocket)

If you are ordering from Jayjays, add a Bum Roll  (small detachable pouch that lets you roll up a poncho or rain jacket and run on top of the back pouches)  and a couple British water bottles and one of their metal crusader cups that the bottles nest in.  Their water bottles are better canteens than ours are, and are designed to work with this system.  Jayjays carries them.

Marnsdorf/rock6 thanks for the help and time, seriously.
Trying to figure out practical gear for my age and area, I appreciate it

Yaya, don't worry about it.  I wish someone had come along and laid it out for me too back awhile back.

Regarding the Rocket Pouches:

there are simple pouches, medical bag ones, rifle grenade carrying ones, aftermarket ones made like plate carrier back panels.
They have the same zipper and two can be joined for a daysack attached to a shoulder straps thing or fastened (one or two) to the back of some yokes and on the army issued vests. They are hanging by clips and straps, so rigging attachment points is not a difficult task
Some aftermarket vests can have zips so pouches can be directly zipped like a back panel, i had a Karrimor vest that worked that way that i sold.

They all fasten to all the bergens available (Infantry Short and long convoluted back, Medical bergen, other arms "engineer" bergen, radio carrier bergen, atleast the early variant of ECM bergen, the enormous air support bergen can fit 3 side pouches, one of them on the lid). However they do NOT fit in the 40L Northern Ireland Patrol pack as it has two smaller fixed side pouches. This led to some tailoring for who needed it and to some aftermarket products like the Snugpak Rocket pack that has the standard removable side pouches and 40L main bag capacity (these were also ordered in small numbers by USN SEAL in the mid 90's). However the last model of patrol pack, the 45 liters MTP patrol pack fielded in 2010 can fit the side pouches (as happened to the US, bigger patrol packs were needed for Afghanistan).

In the Army i was issued a bergen with the same concept side pouches, only thing is they had integrated shoulder straps tucked in the back.
I found a paper from a colleague of mine (RIP) from over a decade ago with his loadout. In the daypack formed by the two side pouches he would carry:
1
-thermarest mat
-bivy bag
2
-water bladder (i would say 2 liters)
-Snugpack softie jacket & trousers (like ecwcs level 7, good for being static in cold or as a sleeping bag)
-jetboil stove
-some travellunch dehydrated food bags

That mated with what he carried in the vest and the Smock would do for a comfortable one or two days out. (That was before all Electronic Contermeasure and detection items carried today, but it's still viable for most civilians i think)

Same. I've found the Eagle Yote hydration/assault pack with MOLLE fits perfectly on the back and can be "unweaved" quickly and donned in a just a couple minutes.

ROCK6

Wow, tons of good stuff in here.

I've been thinking about setting up a larger "patrolling" rig than what my war belt holds and the Brit harness and hippo pad system does look more comfortable than the LCE Y harenss I had in basic or the LBV I had for a short while before IBAs, plate carriers, and MOLLE all the things became the norm.

I like this one as it looks like it would let me put a MOLLE 3 AR mag pouch on each side closest to the sewn on large pouches, a pistol mag pouch in front of the AR pouch on the left, and a holster next to the AR mag pouch on the right.

If laid flat it would go like this left to right:

double pistol pouch, triple AR pouch, 4 x sewn on large pouches, triple AR pouch, Safariland 6395 ALS on a G Code disc


I do a few Recon style matches where you have to carry everything for the day (food, water, rifle and pistol mags and ammo for 6+ stages) and a simple battle belt makes a backpack a requirement. The four large pouches would seem to be able to carry everything not needed for the immediate stage. Would also be easier to don and doff a single thing compared to the belt and then the backpack as well.

Anyone able to speak to the ability to run the above kit the way I described? I wear a 34" waist in pants, so I'm thinking this would fit me fine, if wearing just a combat shirt and pants or a second layer in the Fall.

There's also this one but I think I like the idea of the 4 large pouches being sewn on and not paying for the extra pouches I likely wouldn't use.

Related but separate query: would either/both of the above webbing kits work with this pack for the "shelf building" idea? Would this one also fit the bill, although not in a matching pattern?

Any places that carry the above, new or surplus, here in the States to save some shipping?

Thanks much. All my time overseas was IBA/MOLLE pouches or plate carriers and war belt. Haven't done LBE type stuff since Basic/AIT in 2000-2002 and the gear has obviously gotten better since a GI pistol belt with a Y or H harness, two 1qt canteen pouches, two 3 mag AR pouches, and a buttpack

ETA: This one would be great for the price if no pistol was needed or a drop holster could be put on the pants belt, but it's OOS

ETA2: Looks like they're in-stock elsewhere....makes me wonder how easy it would be to do do a drop leg off that D ring they talk about for a Safariland holster either with a leg strap or attached to a MOLLE panel. Any insight on that???

On a side note, those Northern Ireland Patrol Packs (and I assume the newer ones?) work decently well with the belt kit setup.  They don't have a frame, so you have to be careful packing it.

I have one I picked up for like $10.  I quite like it for what it is - I use it as a beater 'throw in the car with some winter gear for emergencies' bag. This bag is faded and beat to crap, I had to repair a small dime sized hole, but it is sound and will probably outlast me.

British gear tends to be overbuilt a bit.  Which while pros and cons, I think the pros outweight the cons.  Especially for civilians - if we ever HAVE to use this stuff - Russians paratroopers landing on your local highschool football field or whatever - we ain't getting resupplies.  And most of us have limited funds to put towards gear.

I like the HPG pack because I can carry a hydration bladder, and / or 2 x canteens, and still room for some snivel gear....and the way HPG packs work, it's designed to attach by the cinch straps.  If you are smart, you can make it so it quickly detaches.  This works with the Crossfire pack I have.  I'm also going to experiment with running the small pack under the detachable beavertail that comes with the Crossfire pack.  Just stuffing it under there and cinching the beavertail down.  

You can also throw it under the lid if you don't have a huge load.

Random picture of the pack I grabbed off the internet.  It's a great little minimalist pack that attaches well to alot of packs.

I'm a huge HPG fan and I've really wanted a TARA pack. Can the side bottle pockets fit a 32 oz Nalgene or the Nato 1ltr Osprey bottles? It seems like I remember reading somewhere it couldn't fit the larger Nalgenes. ETA* Crossfire packs are THE shit. I love my MKVII.

SIGNIFICANTLY more comfortable.  I started with a set of Y harness LCE (quickly upgraded to an H harness) when I was a teenager, along with an ALICE pack.  This new stuff is so much nicer....





That set you linked to is the basic setup I would look at getting.  I don't know anything about that brand, but yes, 4 utility pouches sewn on and MOLLE columns for mag pouches of your choice is what I'd look at.  

Though I am going to question your holster setup choice.  Let me make some recommendations / suggestions, though you roll you bro.  I like me some safariland holsters, got one coming in the mail today actually for my warbelt.

Instead of separate pistol pouches and holster, run 4 x triple AR magazine pouches.  Put you IFAK in one of them on the left and put a simple kydex IWB holster, paracorded, into the 2nd pouch from the front on the right side.  And run your pistol in there.

If you pick the right rifle magazine pouches, they will have MOLLE on the sides.  You can put 2 x pistol magazine pouches on those pouches.

Here's pictures of my new rig I'm putting together as an example.  Holster below.  I have a cheapo bladetech IWB holster, attached with paracord through an eyelet and then through the drain hole in the bottom of the pouch.  You could also wrap it with velcro and put velcro inside the pouch.





Pic below is the 2 x pistol magazine pouches attached to the rifle magazine pouch that I use for an IFAK (the IFAK is held in an insert designed to hold an IFAK in a triple rifle pouch)



The whole rig, minus harness.






Yea, that's where these kits excel.  Dismounted infantry, especially if you don't have to run armor.  That kit should fit you decently.  Again, I don't know that specific brand, but the sizing should be about right.  



Stick with the other style.



The first one, yes, it should.  That's the issue one you are looking for.  Make sure you get the option for extra pockets.

The Colemans one - I HAD mentioned it earlier, but someone else on here said that it wasn't actually the short back one.  If it's not the short back one, it will still WORK, but not as well.  

If you want a nicer pack, look at the Crossfire brand ones.  They have a US distributor that ships from the US.  They're packs are about the best you can get for this kind of stuff.

Otherwise, packs that work for this are hit and miss here in the states unless you want to run an old ALICE pack, which work fine for this.  Occasionally British surplus rucks will show up here in the USA, but the problem is that none of the surplus places ever say or even can tell if they are the short ruck versions.  I thought the Colemans was by the pictures.




I wouldn't try to cut your costs down that much on new gear.  The first set you posted way up the page is about as cheap I'd go for new stuff.  The pricing on these two you posted just above is in the Airsoft gear territory.  

If you really want to cut costs, you could get a set of the older DPM pattern belt-mounted surplus kit with a padded hip belt under it.  You could probably do the whole set for $120ish.  It'd be a bit worn, but hey.  You want to save money.

Otherwise spend the extra money.  You won't regret it halfway through your day long event.  

EDIT:  Here's an ebay auction for an older surplus set for like $85ish shipped.  Only 3 utility pouches on the back, you can get another one here in the USA for around $20.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/125326350946?hash=item1d2e085a62%3Ag%3ALhYAAOSw0Vhih62y&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoC4eQXBMfqI8jDQLpPVzXzT6e3juuY4Umvo8M%2B9iAWa9sawTUfOQW%2BaTIMmXdvfJIcouRKwnVYMQDSDXLXrUTP26KZjK1FY18ZkqfuwZumfHe%2B%2F0sYtMHfhID5jViqNNwNkg%2FUx%2B9ajtyY0%2BGdR6JxZpZPpr8xWjBWBzulqCfKNHtWTnonbu3oGT1oCRCvBTHXCRAIU8gSv9L5d3ELAQkEc%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9Kh_uf-YA&LH_BIN=1

BARELY fit the 32 oz Nalgene bottles.  I mean, there is room in there, but it takes up alot of room inside the pack.

Canteen shaped bottles fit way way better.  I like the Nalgene canteens.

That was my concern. getting all of the little details dialed in is a challenge. For the ruck shelf concept I have settled on the Nalgene bottles in my Belt kit because the Osprey bottles with cups swell the pockets out too much horizontally and interfere with the grip of my pistol and the draw. My current thought process is I have an E&E kit in my patrol pack and if I need to ditch second line, I move my bottles to the patrol pack and move lighter. The Nalgene canteens are excellent but in my experience a wider, flatter bottle top works better to support the DG16 frame. Have you noticed any Ruck frame to pistol grip interference with your setup? I am Currently running a kydex holster on a Safariland molle adapter the puts the butt of the grip below the top of my utility pouch behind it so there's no interference between the frame and the grip. I keep an HPG kit bag in my patrol pack as an E&E kit and I'm thinking about ditching the holster on the belt kit and leaving it in the kit bag and running extra rifle mags on the belt kit. That would eliminate the bottle clearance issue.

Thanks for the detailed responses. I was wondering about the cost differences between the Kit Monster and Bulldog Tactical stuff.

Good point on the holster option.

More to think about....

Look at the pictures of my rig I posted a few posts above this to see where my holster sits.  I don't have problems.  

And the way I do the pistol holster, it allows me to quickly pull the holster and swap in 3 x more rifle magazines should I want to roll heavy.

EDIT:  I don't carry the pistol for a quick draw.  I carry it so that I can ditch my gear and just carry a concealed pistol should I need to.  I like the option to do that or just upload rifle magazines.  I carry extra rifle magazines in or on my ruck one way or the other.

i saw your setup and I like what you have going on for sure. Does your Pistol have a light on it? I tried the mag pouch/ holster thing before and it didn't work for me since i run a light and an RDS. It wouldn't fit in the mag pouch but it was a double mag pouch, Ill try my triple on the opposite side.

No light, no red dot.  You probably would have to bump up to a triple mag pouch to make a light / red dot holster fit.  Right now my regular holster is in a double mag pouch, and the regular holster fits perfectly.  The triple has plenty of extra room.

Just make sure you are using a slimline IWB style holster.  This is the one I'm using, for reference.

I like your approach and I appreciate your responses. I know it’s not typical to run a pistol on these Brit style belt kits but I really do believe they are the best option for a civilian with no logistics chain, on foot. I moved from chest rig and battle belt and the pistol on the belt line is just ingrained in my muscle memory. Maybe it’s a safety blanket thing and I could just stick it in a patrol pack. I’ll definitely look into the mag pouch approach. Thanks again.

I'm working through this as well. No, the British PLCE "rifleman's" kit isn't design for use with a pistol. I think the one hippo belt with MOLLE on the sides could be adapted (I primarily use Safariland) with a MOLLE adapter for the holster, most designs kind of preclude it. I've considered getting another 3xmag pouch, but this is one system I would like the pistol secured well. I too have a HPG Kit Bag as an option I'm working with and additional E&E system. It actually works quite well when it's not as hot, but "jungle summer heat" it can be a little oppressive...it's still my best option for a handgun right now, but I'm going to keep working on a holster system.

ROCK6

let's say this may not be the best way of carrying and accessing a pistol. However with the partial molle webbing you can fit a holster mounted to pals and it will sit more or less in a comfortable position. I think it will work right for competition.
British soldiers are issued radar 1957 holsters like the one pictured, with  a variety of attachment including a belt one (it is intended for the virtus kit belt, however any belt that with 3 row of pals works).

Bulldog webbing i think it is of lower quality, however i may be wrong.

This is why I was thinking a slight drop leg holster would be the way to go. I don't think I'd go as low as the gents in your pic though. I'm thinking maybe doing double mag pouches on the right side which face the rounds towards the midline instead of the triple that faces the rounds away from the body would make for a slimmer right side to allow the holster to ride higher and be drawn straight up instead of having to fish it around a bulky mag pouch at the 3 oclock.

My immediate reaction was looks like my PLCE from last century and like PLCE some pros and cons.  

Very difficult with vehicles due to bulk and you end up with too much weight on your belt - there are some good options out there that hybrid with the "normal" belt - carrier/chest rig/recce rig - pack concept.  

Crye make a decent set up as do SORD.

Bang for buck the SORD set up is very good e.g. Cobra belt overlain with thicker outer belt attached to low profile H yoke - with the COBRA belt you opt for metal D ring or cordura, in my view in the modern world you need clip on ability, plus mix and match pouches as required e.g. modern quick release IFAK etc etc.  Scav pack etc etc.  

Entry and exit become important e.g. canopy insertion and ladder extraction, Vs vehicle, Vs foot.  

For the record the pommie pouches for 556 on the old PLCE setup are distributed to one on each hip and each pouch set has 2x90 rd capability which equates to ~ 2kg of love on each hip :) roughly

METT-TC

Belt pad
Suspenders

when I'm back in the office, I'll chuck in a couple of pics.

I picked up an S&S Precision holster extender to use with my Jungle Belt Kit. It's not ideal, but then running a pistol with that kit isn't, period. The extender runs it out further and lower than anything else on the market minus a knee mount. That said, it's all a series of compromises and I don't think I'd bother with a pistol on my leg with patrol kit without a really good reason.

I have the Jay Jay's chameleon webbing that has the molle on the front sides and use the molle adapter. I would like something like a flap holster but i have to make it complicated with an rds and a light, lol. The kit bag can be a bit uncomfortable ( like any non split front chest rig) in the summer humidity for sure but I agree, it's an excellent option. I have worked out most of the kinks in my line 1-3 setup, just a few tweaks would make it ideal for me. It's nice to have top quality options these days. I'm really happy with the belt kit/ short back ruck setup. I struggled for years to make a line 2 and 3 work together with an actual 24 hr sustainment load on my line 2 and this combo works really well.

"Rockets" and mating yoke arrived quickly from UK, and in near-new condition.  Washing the typical surplus "stink" out of them.  Will edit to add details, but there are no drainage grommets in bottom of "Rockets"; something easily fixed.  There is a 3/4" wide adjustable QD strap on bottom of each "Rocket".  When "Rockets" are mated together on the yoke, the now side-by-side straps allow bottom attachment of suitable items, such as rolls, etc.  Yoke has an adjustable QD belly band and adjustable QD shoulder straps.

Unlike more modern versions of Brit field gear, neither my "OR" Bergen nor the "Rockets" have any sort of PALS webbing, but they have some vertical fabric loops to which some PALS items could be attached by running a  horizontal strap through the vertical loops and attaching the PALS item to the add-on horizontal straps; alternatively, compression straps could be run through the loops.  "Rockets" also attach perfectly to the sides of the Brit "OR" pack which was a primary goal.

More later as time allows.

ETA: I think that the "OR" Brit Bergen is a bit too long for the application stated in this thread, but I am just going from pix of the "desired" rig, and an examination of the "OR" pack in hand.  Perhaps the "OR" Bergen will serve for very tall people for purposes of this thread.

If desired, "OR" Bergen can certainly be modded with some useful upgrades.  Sternum strap is easy to do, and some compression straps can be added via side-mounted 1" wide webbing present on pack.  The "OR" pack comes with internal (presumably) bendable aluminum stays and internal padding.  There is an internal Divider/Panel which might allow installation of an internal water bladder, zippers being configured for the hose.  It has a waist belt, but I question whether it how much pack weight the belt will allow. Added drain grommets on bottom of pack might be useful. Without "Rockets" attached, the zippers on the "OR" pack allow about 1/2 of the zippered flap to be opened.  With Rockets attached, the amount of pack's zipper opening is so constrained that the pack is basically a top-opening pack, and somewhat constrained, at that.

As a side note, the 3/4" fastex female buckles seem a bit fragile compared to their 1" counterparts.  My used "OR" Bergen had some damaged female buckles, since replaced with homemade "Field-Expedient" style 3/4" buckles.  Simple to do.

I'll look into modding my "OR" Bergen for my own purposes and may post about such in another thread.

Again, my "OR" Bergen is an earlier (DPM camo) type, and later iterations may vary in their features, most likely in the addition of PALS/MOLLE webbing. Suggest if interested in such a pack, buying the (more expensive) later versions.  I was just trying to "make the most" of what I already possessed, and perhaps see if it met requirements stated in this thread.

OTOH, the Yoke+Rocket setup might work for purposes of this thread, possibly if a small roll is attached to bottom of the Rockets.  Problem is that the "Rockets" are two entirely separate 10L pouches, not a same-size and undivided pack.

Sometimes even negative information is useful, if only to say if something is not suitable for a desired goal.  Live and learn.

Regarding Holsters, the PLCE had a belt Holster, the "other arms" (like, non-infantry)  holster, that is meant to be mounted in place of a ammo pouch.

It is a classic type thing, removable snap closure flap and thumb strap, could be converted to shoulder carry (even f there is another specific shoulder holster).
That is to say that a holster instead of an ammo pouch would be good to go placing wise. i think it would work.

After a week of research, I bit the bullet and spent some money last night.
I could have saved quite a bit, if I knew exactly what size I needed from all the different manufacturers at Kitmonster.uk.
My 32 waist meant I could be a medium or small, 3 or 4 pouch, so rather than gamble I went custom tailored. Cheaper than a mistake with shipping factored in.
Dixies was cheaper by far, and had everything needed in stock, but has a cordura hippo pad.
Jay Jays has the mesh hippo pad, but no yoke in stock. Just the molle front JayJay belt was the same price as a full setup from Dixies.
Since the mesh pad seems to be the whole point, I went with JayJay to be safe.
I used KitmonsterUK for the yoke and all the other pouches and a few canteens.
All in all I spent about $350, but $50 of that is pouches I don't know if I will need, and it is a full custom top of the line brand new set up from the UK guaranteed to fit.
Had I known my size on the used custom stuff at Kitmonster, I would have gotten it all for $225 shipped tops.

As a side note, be careful of brands like Kombat, Bulldog, and Marauder. They look to be airsoft or knockoff versions.
Once it all comes in, I will take some measurements and give you my thoughts.

You're going to love this setup. I have yet to find anything that bears weight as comfortably as Brit belt kit.

We don't like anything easy here!

I'm going take a spare Safarliand UBL (mid ride belt loop mount), save off the belt loops and attach some MOLLE adapter clips to the back side and see how that works. It is hard to find a compatible holster for a handgun with optic and WML...

That will position the holster just a little lower and yes, it would replace a full size mag pouch (plus).

I'm still debating these options. I think for my "winter jungle" patrolling (LARPing at home), I'll go with the HPG Kit Bag, but when it warms up, I can go back to the waist-MOLLE attachment, but that doesn't quite meet my preference of keeping my sidearm on my body.

I did try to wear a drop leg on my pants belt with the Jay Jays riding over the top and it just doesn't work. You can go really low with thigh-strap, but I was trying to avoid that (as pictured above by vexed). I just much prefer the ability to keep my duty sidearm on my person even if I drop my Line-2 kit. The battle belt and chest rig work okay with this concept, but are less ideal for a load-bearing system beyond ammo, water, and FAK.

ROCK6

I'll be interested to see what holster solution(s) you come up with as I also sport an RDS and WML pistol. I love the active retention and ease of re-holstering with the Safariland series, but they are big bitches that will cause the loss of at least one triple AR mag pouch on the right side of the belt.

There certainly are some challenges with things like a pistol and for me, a fixed blade knife on Brit style belt kit. I think the capacity and comfort of the design is worth the tradeoff. Being able to run a full capacity ruck with a full LBE COMFORTABLY is something I've been after a LONG time.
The pics above were posted by marnsdorff I believe.
For now, I'm doing the molle mount kydex holster thing. It works but it's not quite optimal to my liking. I need to see if Safariland makes an RDS holster with ALS for my pistol, as my main issue is no solid retention ( T Rex Arms Ragnarok holster). Figuring out a spot to mount my fixed blade is my next challenge. There's no molle spots left within the front potion on either side of my belt for one handed drawing and re-sheathing my knife. I want to keep the yoke straps slick so mounting it up high is a no-go. Gonna have to get creative!

A single MOLLE strip that puts the knife under a larger mag pouch that straddles the sheath? That's where my mind was going for a 3 or 9 o'clock-ish mounted 4" fixed blade with hard sheath.

That solution would be ideal but unfortunately my mag and gp pouch are 2 column pouches and there's no open columns on the belt. I had the knife mounted to the side of one of the sewn in GP/water bottle pouches but had to abandon that idea since i could draw the knife but I couldn't re-sheath it, basically at all without risking cutting open my gear. I have a separate dangler sheath for my knife as well, I might try and mount it to my pants belt underneath but I'm sure it will either conflict with the belt kit or I'll have to mount it so far forward it will conflict with taking a knee. My only other option is I have an old HSGI Bleeder pouch that maybe I could mod to take my knife sheath where the emt shears go. If the sewn in belt on the Jay jays rig was stiffer I'd just mount direct to the belt in front of the hippo pad but no joy and I see no reason for Jay Jays to make it stiffer than it needs to be.

Usually a Knife (bayonet) is placed between the left ammo pouch and the first utility pouch. On modern webbing sets is usually strapped to the side of the utility pouch that has pals webbing so the sheath too is shock corded down with the utility pouches elastic cord and doesnt move (the elastic cord ends between the ammo and utility pouches, ammunition and commanders pouches aren't shock corded usually).

I started digging around my box o' pouches the other night in anticipation of ordering one of the belt/suspender/pouches kits to try and mock up what rifle/pistol mag pouches I'd want to order from the Brit suppliers (gotta match the camo pattern, right? ).

I'm thinking a triple AR mag pouch at the 9 and then a TACO-esque single AR and single pistol mag closer to the buckle on the left side as "quick access" mags, or maybe a slimmer double AR pouch with two pistol pouches attached to the side of that, depending on space and attachment point(s) available on the sides of the AR mag pouches.

The right side would be holster at 3 and another double AR/medical pouch closer to the belt line on the right.

This cuts the rifle mags down to 6-7 on the rig vice the 12 of the original jungle kit, but I'm not expecting major running gun battles and I need the pistol and 2+ pistol mags for matches and the like.

This is originally how I had my knife set up as I have seen the Brits put their bayonet there but re-sheathing is pretty much a no go for me in this configuration. I think the bayonet frog setup works well for them because the Frog sits high above the utility pouch so re-sheathing is not an issue. I'm gonna play with running a dangler sheath from the web belt tonight. Hopefully between the rotating nature of the dangler and the small window of space between the hippo pad and the center buckle, I can still take a knee and not stab my guts with the hilt of my knife. Thanks for the input!

I agree with the comfort of the style, at least for me and especially when actually doing movement drills.

I would say a Safarliand is a bare minimum for retention (mine are all Level 2). The other challenge is having a holstered pistol when you go test it out by low crawling though a bunch of shit, grass, vines, etc. A covered holster makes a difference. That said, I finally go my first RDS Safariland and it's a simple addition that seems to do a decent job at protecting the RDS

My son recently completed a week-long, mostly outdoors SWAT training. He was using a Safariland with the RDS shroud and light on his Staccato. He said it took a beating both doing patrols and movement drills in the mountains (hills really) and woods (day and night) as well as the typical knocking around with building clearing drills.

For patrolling, especially in a swampy or tight jungle terrain, you really have to secure how stuff is both secured and protected. I don't see my sidearm as a speed-draw rig for this kind of kit and its purpose.



I don't know if this will work for you, but when I was screwing around with holsters on the belt, I found my knife works perfectly. I'm using a custom knife, but sheath belt loop is a pretty standard position. I found that on my belt, it will easily nest between the pouches (I had to adjust it a little at first), and I'm able to access and re-sheath it relatively easily. And when I take my kit off, the knife remains on the pants belt. I'll have to see if I can capture a picture of it...but this is the knife and you can see the location of the belt loop:



ROCK6

Wow it's great to see interest in Brit style (or Pommie as GHOZ sez haha) belt kit.  This is something that was "OBE" over taken by events, for many folks, once vehicles replaced foot mobility.  However, for a lot of the rest of us, including us slimy civilians, having a rig optimized for foot mobility is still a good idea.

Full disclosure: Design stuff for Crossfire Australia/USA so will attempt to describe things without pimping out our kit.  

Again on the short/long back ruck thing.  To really integrate a ruck and a belt kit, you need to know your measurements.  I am 5' 11", 170 lbs, with a lumbar length of 18".  That's from the big bump on your neck to the TOP of your waist belt.  Or basically the top, to the bottom of the ruck frame.  So I can use either the DG3 (18") or DG16 (20") frameset on a ruck, and it sits perfectly on my belt kit.

And for comparison, the Brit Long Back Bergan will not work for me with a belt kit (without extensive modifications); whereas the Short Back Bergan works well.  And for sure the NI patrol pack works very well.

Auntie ALICE will work for me, but both issue frames for the Molle Large, and the FILBE are slightly long.  So these days if I was going to use anyone of these pack bags, I'd throw it on a DG frameset and drive on.

When I designed a belt kit rig, to go with our rucksacks, the shoulder yoke was matched to the pack yoke, so they overlay perfectly.  That way you have two sets of straps, designed to work together, instead of fighting each other.  Try and adjust your yoke and pack harness so that you get some kind of overlay like this.  We are also experimenting with different pad thicknesses on the packs so that you can use the yoke padding as base that the pack straps build on.  For example having a combined thickness of say 3/4", vs an over-padded stack up, which sounds good, but actually sucks in practice.  If any of you guys remember the shoulder pads of the LBV, underneath the pads on a late-model ALICE, you'll  know what I'm talking about.

About pistols.  I think for a lot of guys, it still makes sense to carry them.  For others, not so much.  But if you do, it can be easily incorporated into a 2-mag pouch with some kind of holster insert.  Not as quick draw as we're used to, but perhaps it needn't be, at least in the woods.

About tabbing/humping/yomping in full belt kit and rucksack.  Yes, it's totally doable, once you're in shape for it, if you get you kit dialed in for it.  I like a Cobra buckle on the belt kit because I'm going to cinch that bitch down when I start moving at a "recon shuffle".  The faster you move, the tighter it needs to be.  If I move up to say a 10:30 pace, that thing is tighter than dick's hatband.  I don't use the ruck waist belt (belly band really).  I will cinch the shoulder straps down a bit more, but use the sternum strap to really tighten things up.  If the base of the ruck frame/bag is nestled in with the sustainment pouches on the back of your belt, it's going to stay put on most any yomp.  The only exception is if you are going up really steep or off-camber terrain (think military crest).  Then I use a set of straps I am developing to connect the ruck to the belt kit for added stability.  If you add in plates, it will actually lock the pack frame into place on the DG framesets, because of the hollowed-out center made just for this purpose.  This is another reason why you don't want a cross bar center section on a frame, IMHO.  

Just a few tips though.  Start off low weight, low mileage and build from there.  Start out with highly cushioned running shoes at first and then slowing transition to light weight hikers.   Don't do any more than one weighted work out per week until you are in really good shape.  Even then, I wouldn't do more than two weighted work outs per week, unless there's a really good reason for it, and you're just a stud.  I think it takes about a year to get your body used to all the pounding.  It's more about all the connective tissue/joints getting into shape, more so than your wind.

So, my one kit I can put the holster on currently has 8 mags (2x3 pouches on the left, and a double pouch on the right). I have a Velocity Systems jungle canteen pouch as a pseudo FAK/admin pouch on the right; this is where the pistol holster will go. I will have to probably use a mag (2xmag) pouch for a FAK. So, having six mags is still not bad and with my Yote assault pack, I have three extra mags for resupply.

For my purpose, I’m avoiding any more vacations to combat zones, so it’s really a patrolling recce kit (jungle, swamp, southeastern woods), not a major combat loadout but adequate for my LARPing err, training. The handgun gives me more flexibility in and out of built up areas, and I just need enough ammo to end a fight quick, or break contact where avoidance and detection are very high on my priority list.

ROCK6

I think either configuration would work really well for you. I saw a belt kit setup where on the weak hand side they were running open top fast mag pouches against the hippo pad and double rifle mag pouches mounted to the fast mag pouches. It looked like a clean setup though I am erring on the side of coverage  and retention for my mags. The SOE Rallyman pouches I use have a fastex buckle and a velcro closure with a good sized pull tab on the flap cover so it can be  quick ish to reload it needed. The flap is also completely removable and I have shock cord with a cord lock on the perimeter of the mag pouch body, so I can run open top if I wanted to. The removable flap also has a ton of height adjustment so if I wanted to, I could probably run 30rd AK mags if I wanted. If the flaps fully enclosed the mags on the sides, these would be almost perfect for me. Add a tuck tab silent closure with a velcro field that could be used or silenced and it would be perfection IMHO.

Your right side setup is the same as I am running mine with holster placement and med/ mag pouch. I use a Platatac water bottle pouch on the right front. The main compartment is zippered (wish it was flapped) and it has a smaller zippered pocket on the front with molle on the sides. I have a small BOK on the left side of the main pouch but I need to put together a better kit as right now I'm just using an Israeli bandage, quick clot gauze and some kerlix in my pouch. If the main pouch was a flap closure I could run an ATS med insert in it and have quick access for a lot more comprehensive BOK. I mean, the med insert will fit in the main pouch but zipper is less than ideal for a BOK. I have hiked/larped quite a bit in my belt kit and I like the configuration with respect to layout, just dialing in the details through use, takes use. I think you will be really happy with yours when you get it all dialed in. I don't plan on direct action/ door kicking/ cqb as I'm just a scrub ass civilian so more than 6 mags on my line 2 is wasted weight to be honest. If I survive contact after expending 210 rds, I'm just plain lucky. I usually keep a couple more spare mags in my patrol bag too.

My loadout left to right:

Left:
Grimlok with gloves
Cat tourniquet
2- 3x mag pouches
1st utility:  32 oz nalgene with micropure tabs taped to the bottom, pathfinder ss cup and lid
2nd utility: poncho with quick deploy ridgeline and a rifle cleaning kit
3rd utility: will probably be rations and an esbit stove, more micropure tabs, coffee and a Cravat for pre filtering sediment. I haven't fully dedicated contents to this pouch yet and I've been just putting a shemagh and some cliff bars in it.
4th utility: Stainless naglene 32 oz bottle
Holster and S&W M&P 2.0 compact with Holosun ACSS and TLR-HL
Single flapped pistol mag pouch mounted on the inboard side of the platatac pouch
Main compartment of the Platatac pouch: more med items, Surefire G2X, Dynema cut resistant gloves in case I need to handle broken glass, jagged metal, razor wire etc.
front compartment of Platatac pouch, headlamp
Outboard side of platatac pouch: TT flashbang pouch with BOK described above.
I do have a small TT compass pouch on the left side of my yoke that carries my Suunto MC-2. I may move this to on person carry since it should be a line 1 item.

Hopefully I can Squeeze my fixed blade on to the belt in front of the BOK.

Very cool and thanks for your input! As I shift from active to civ and having spent the last 20 years doing operations where we drove or flew just about everywhere, my kit was more tailored for mounted ops than patrolling. My missions weren't door-kicking operations, but most were less than 12 hours, so sustainment was just snacks, water, and hoping the DFAC is doing Taco Tuesday on the menu

Now, doing the shift to "home defense", my "missions" are to just patrol the area (swampy woodlands) and I can bivouac or set up a hide for day or two. This is far more reminiscent of my young Infantry days in the early 90's. I find the British kit better suited to this. I still recommend a chest rig if wearing a larger pack as the integration is better and you get full use of the pack’s waistbelt/suspension system for load management. However, for shorter patrols (2-3 days), the Brit kit kind of rock. With the short-back Bergen, I can stretch that to a week if needed.

It's good to see Crossfire make packs compatible with the PLCE shelf system…

ROCK6

I'm 100% in the coverage/ retention camp with regards to a pistol, like you. I'm actually thinking I'm gonna move the Ragnarok holster to my "bump in the night belt " and do the triple mag pouch. I'm gonna have to experiment with a holster insert. Running an RDS and light does not make this easy.

On the knife setup, how you have yours pictured is how I've run mine on a battle belt but unfortunately there is no room for it behind my pistol and in front of the utility pouch. It's all shoehorned in there and I run my water bottles in the outermost utilities for a hard point for the corner of my ruck frame to rest on as a shelf. Space is definitely at a premium, as with any setup when it comes to this gear. I really appreciate your knowledge and your helpfulness with getting this all dialed in!