Quoted: in the NG, I was a Cav Scout. Two very fun jobs, for the most part.

And the 2nd one gets you a cool hat & spurs too... ;)

Quoted: The Marines is where they put people who misspell Army on theretheir application.       J/K

Semper Fi  

Quoted: The Marines is where they put people who misspell Army on there application.       J/K

Don't you mean, "...their application.", Soldier?



(edited to add semper fi!)

OWNED

Semper Fi,
M60-E4

"Why in hell can't the Army do it if the Marines can? They are the same kind of men; why can't they be like Marines?"

- Gen John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, 12 February 1918

Man, I am impressed with the civility of this thread so far (knocking on wood).

I started out as an 0311 Rifleman in the Corps, and then was retrained at Division Schools as an 0351 Antitank Assaultman....Both jobs were infantry, and both were a hell of a lot of work - but a hell of a lot of fun, and I got to do a lot of cool shit.

I've said elsewhere that some of the BEST trianing I had while I was in the Corps was at the Army Jungle Warfare School, Fort Sherman, Panama. All of our instructors were Army Rangers, and damn good.

Just from my personal experience, I would say go Marines, or, If you decide to go Army, I would definitely suggest Rangers or Airborne.

Here's the difference...



And US ARMY stands for "Uncle Sam    Ain't Released Me Yet"...not "ain't ready to be a marine yet" Hey Marine....you have too many words for that to work.

Quoted: "Why in hell can't the Army do it if the Marines can? They are the same kind of men; why can't they be like Marines?" - Gen John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, 12 February 1918

"The more Marines I have around the better I like it!"
-General Mark Clark, US Army.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle"
-General Pershing, US Army

"I have just returned from visiting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world!"
-General Douglas Macarthur, US Army

"We have two companies of Marines running all over this island and thousands of Army troops doing nothing!"
-General John Vessey, Chairman of Joint Chiefs (About Grenada).

"I can never again see a United States Marine without experiencing a feeling of reverence."
-General Johnson, US Army.

"Panic sweeps my men when they are facing the American Marines."
-Captured North Korean Major.

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
-President Ronald Reagan.

Quoted:  If you gave a solder and a marine the same uniform and told them to put it on, you could pick out the Marine.

Well, maybe not ACUs (unless the Marine went ahead & ironed them)....

I love my Marine Corps and am proud of my eight years of service, including a short, sharp engagement with Iraqis in the First Gulf War. I say join the Corps. If you go Army, make sure are in an elite unit like the 82nd, 101st, and if you can hack it, the Rangers. We Mariens regard most of the Army as pathetically slow and cumbersome, but these three units are as good as the USMC.

Of course we all have belly buttons and opinions, so take this for what it is worth. All blood is red when it bleeds for its country.

Quoted: The Marines have a color called "Coyote Brown".

And now the Army has 'Desert Tan'... Anything but 'black'....

Quoted: Quoted: Man, I am impressed with the civility of this thread so far (knocking on wood). I started out as an 0311 Rifleman in the Corps, and then was retrained at Division Schools as an 0351 Antitank Assaultman....Both jobs were infantry, and both were a hell of a lot of work - but a hell of a lot of fun, and I got to do a lot of cool shit. I've said elsewhere that some of the BEST trianing I had while I was in the Corps was at the Army Jungle Warfare School, Fort Sherman, Panama. All of our instructors were Army Rangers, and damn good. Just from my personal experience, I would say go Marines, or, If you decide to go Army, I would definitely suggest Rangers or Airborne. A lot of Marines I have met look back on their basic training as the defining moment of their training. Most soldiers, especially combat arms, see basic and AIT as nothing more than bare bones to get to the unit. The REAL training in the Army happens after you have some time under your belt. Ranger, Sapper (though sapper may go to shit pretty soon as they are sending women through), JOTC and the training centers (NTC, JRTC, CMTC) I don't believe the corps has the same variety of finishing schools as the Army does.  Scout Sniper comes to mind as does combat diving, but these are MOS specific.

No, but if you are a grunt and are in the FMF, you will go through the cycles and build-ups for deployment after deployment. Especially if you are with the MEU.  The training is intense, and relentless.  Grunt training happens with the grunts.  Just as it does with the Army.  The difference, is that the Corps prefers to forge the discipline early -so that the later training really sinks in.

Quoted: Here we go.

+1..................."Every time I think I'm out......they PULL ME BACK IN!"

I thought we were all on the same side?

One service better than the other...

Only the immature think one service member is better than another. Each one has a job to do and it's up to you which job you pick. Want to go to sea and shoot? Join the Marines. Want to jump, helo, run into battle and eat snakes? Join the Rangers. Want to work on highly technical stuff? Join the Air Force.

Each service has cooks, ground pounders, snake eaters, smart guys and MP's. What is the real difference between the services?  What military job you want to do for our country and which uniform you prefer to wear. That's it.

Yeah, generally pretty civil discussion so far.

+1 to pretty much everything Sylvan said.

At this point I'd ask what it is YOU want to do-if you tell a little bit about yourself and what your goals are maybe someone can help you more.  

This can be personalized suggestions to help you get where you want to be, based on your preferences, or generic stuff.

The army can guarantee specific skills and units more so than the Marines.  The Marines are more "needs of the USMC"

Sig line.

"Goddamn Marines"



Source Lt. Col. David W. Szelowski USMCR (ret.)



Wednesday August 17, 2005



I wonder how many times during Operation Iraqi Freedom that the phrase

"Goddamn Marines" was uttered? Even in the best of times, Army and Air

Force officers have been heard muttering some epithet about Marines,

invoking either heaven or hell. Interestingly enough, we Marines find it

all rather reassuring and, at times, amusing.



Most of the time, Marines do not go out of our way to be obnoxious; we

are just doing what Marines have done for over 200 years. A good example

is the fact that Marines always raise the American flag over mountains

or cities they have conquered. From Mt. Suribachi to the City of Hue, to

Kuwait City to Baghdad, U.S. Marines have raised the Stars and

Stripes-in the latter examples, much to the chagrin of higher

headquarters. You don't get these kinds of problems with the Army. So

what is it about the U.S. Marines that they stick U.S. flags on

everything and do more with less, a less that is either old or an army

hand-me-down? We call it Esprit de Corps, but it goes deeper than that.

We learn and maintain myths of the past, which also means living up to

those historical examples. Marine Corps boot camp is the longest of the

services; it is where we mold young men and women into the mythical

image called a Marine. You can be in the Army, you can join the Air

Force, but you become a Marine. All of the other uniformed services have

songs; the U.S. Marines have a hymn. The basic pattern of Marine Corps

uniforms comes from the late nineteenth century; our emblem "the Eagle,

Globe and Anchor" has remained largely unchanged since 1868. The buttons

on our dress blues, whites and greens date back to the founding of our

Corps. The Marine Corps is the only service that requires its officers

to carry a sword, whose pattern dates back to 1805.



I think that the path of being a Marine was established long ago. On the

10th of November 1775, the Marine Corps was first established...in a

tavern. To this day, no matter where in the world, Marines celebrate the

founding of our beloved Corps, much to the confusion of the other

services.



A few years ago, a congresswoman from Colorado felt that the Marine

Corps was radical and extreme. She contended that the Marine Corps was

not politically correct, nor did we seem to be part of the Department of

Defense's transition to a "kinder and gentler" military. She was

correct, and the Marine Corps took it as a compliment.



But the proof is in the doing, and during Iraqi Freedom the Marines

demonstrated what Marines can do. I watched with some amusement as a

reporter asked a young lance corporal about being in Iraq and under

rifle fire. "Love it, sir!" was his response. The reporter was taken

aback and asked, "No, really." The Marine then tried to explain that

this is what he was trained to do, he looked forward to doing it and was

now happy to be doing it. No doubt in boot camp he was told that he was

"a minister of death praying for war." Contrast that with the poor U.S.

Army Apache pilots who said that if they had to take life, they would do

so reluctantly. You are either a warrior or you are not.



Marines are mission oriented. Live or die, the most important thing to a

Marine is accomplishing the mission. Whether taking the bridge, river or

town, accomplishing the mission is the Holy Grail of being a Marine. How

the mission is accomplished is not so important, as it is expected of

all Marines to accomplish the mission with the tools available. This is

probably why we heard that Marines in one engagement were fighting with

knives and bayonets. This was hardly high tech, but it was effective.

These Marines now have bragging rights, for they have proven that they

talk-the-talk and walk-the-walk. I doubt there is a single Marine who is

not envious.



Marines are practical, as well. I enjoyed hearing two reporters

interviewing each other, one embedded with the Army, the other with the

Marines. The reporter with the Army noted that the sandstorm had blown

down many of the soldiers' cots. The other reporter countered that the

Marines did not have this problem because they slept on the ground. The

Marine learns to live with what he can carry on his back. He expects to

be moved around on the battlefield via his two black Cadillacs (boots).

If he is lucky and gets a ride on an amtrack, so much the better-but it

is not expected. At the end of a mission, the priority for cleaning is

weapon, then equipment, and finally, body. When the other services talk

about "quality of life," they are referring to housing, clubs and food.

Marines are talking about better weapons, equipment and training,

winning the battle and coming home alive is considered "quality of

life."



All of this translates into combat power. In comparison to the U.S.

Army's 3rd Infantry Division, the Marines of I Marine Expeditionary

Force were lightly equipped. Yet, they battled through the heart of

Iraq, fought to the center of Baghdad and then moved off to Tikrit,

taking that city as well. The press was so enamored with the Marines

that in the final days of the war they even credited the Marines with

deeds actually accomplished by the Army. Little wonder we heard "Goddamn

Marines!" so often. So we need to give the Marines some slack when they

do something politically incorrect, such as raising the flag or

appearing insensitive when killing the enemy. In the field, they look

sloppy compared to the Army, but are aggressive in the attack and

generally unhappy in the defense. Marines take pride in their work, even

if that work is war. We are just Marines and that is what we do.



Lt. Col. David W. Szelowski USMCR (ret.)

When in the shit - we are  brothers in arms

When in the bar - Army is better.

Quoted: "Goddamn Marines" Source Lt. Col. David W. Szelowski USMCR (ret.) Wednesday August 17, 2005 I wonder how many times during Operation Iraqi Freedom that the phrase "Goddamn Marines" was uttered? Even in the best of times, Army and Air Force officers have been heard muttering some epithet about Marines, invoking either heaven or hell. Interestingly enough, we Marines find it all rather reassuring and, at times, amusing. Most of the time, Marines do not go out of our way to be obnoxious; we are just doing what Marines have done for over 200 years. A good example is the fact that Marines always raise the American flag over mountains or cities they have conquered. From Mt. Suribachi to the City of Hue, to Kuwait City to Baghdad, U.S. Marines have raised the Stars and Stripes-in the latter examples, much to the chagrin of higher headquarters. You don't get these kinds of problems with the Army. So what is it about the U.S. Marines that they stick U.S. flags on everything and do more with less, a less that is either old or an army hand-me-down? We call it Esprit de Corps, but it goes deeper than that. We learn and maintain myths of the past, which also means living up to those historical examples. Marine Corps boot camp is the longest of the services; it is where we mold young men and women into the mythical image called a Marine. You can be in the Army, you can join the Air Force, but you become a Marine. All of the other uniformed services have songs; the U.S. Marines have a hymn. The basic pattern of Marine Corps uniforms comes from the late nineteenth century; our emblem "the Eagle, Globe and Anchor" has remained largely unchanged since 1868. The buttons on our dress blues, whites and greens date back to the founding of our Corps. The Marine Corps is the only service that requires its officers to carry a sword, whose pattern dates back to 1805. I think that the path of being a Marine was established long ago. On the 10th of November 1775, the Marine Corps was first established...in a tavern. To this day, no matter where in the world, Marines celebrate the founding of our beloved Corps, much to the confusion of the other services. A few years ago, a congresswoman from Colorado felt that the Marine Corps was radical and extreme. She contended that the Marine Corps was not politically correct, nor did we seem to be part of the Department of Defense's transition to a "kinder and gentler" military. She was correct, and the Marine Corps took it as a compliment. But the proof is in the doing, and during Iraqi Freedom the Marines demonstrated what Marines can do. I watched with some amusement as a reporter asked a young lance corporal about being in Iraq and under rifle fire. "Love it, sir!" was his response. The reporter was taken aback and asked, "No, really." The Marine then tried to explain that this is what he was trained to do, he looked forward to doing it and was now happy to be doing it. No doubt in boot camp he was told that he was "a minister of death praying for war." Contrast that with the poor U.S. Army Apache pilots who said that if they had to take life, they would do so reluctantly. You are either a warrior or you are not. Marines are mission oriented. Live or die, the most important thing to a Marine is accomplishing the mission. Whether taking the bridge, river or town, accomplishing the mission is the Holy Grail of being a Marine. How the mission is accomplished is not so important, as it is expected of all Marines to accomplish the mission with the tools available. This is probably why we heard that Marines in one engagement were fighting with knives and bayonets. This was hardly high tech, but it was effective. These Marines now have bragging rights, for they have proven that they talk-the-talk and walk-the-walk. I doubt there is a single Marine who is not envious. Marines are practical, as well. I enjoyed hearing two reporters interviewing each other, one embedded with the Army, the other with the Marines. The reporter with the Army noted that the sandstorm had blown down many of the soldiers' cots. The other reporter countered that the Marines did not have this problem because they slept on the ground. The Marine learns to live with what he can carry on his back. He expects to be moved around on the battlefield via his two black Cadillacs (boots). If he is lucky and gets a ride on an amtrack, so much the better-but it is not expected. At the end of a mission, the priority for cleaning is weapon, then equipment, and finally, body. When the other services talk about "quality of life," they are referring to housing, clubs and food. Marines are talking about better weapons, equipment and training, winning the battle and coming home alive is considered "quality of life." All of this translates into combat power. In comparison to the U.S. Army's 3rd Infantry Division, the Marines of I Marine Expeditionary Force were lightly equipped. Yet, they battled through the heart of Iraq, fought to the center of Baghdad and then moved off to Tikrit, taking that city as well. The press was so enamored with the Marines that in the final days of the war they even credited the Marines with deeds actually accomplished by the Army. Little wonder we heard "Goddamn Marines!" so often. So we need to give the Marines some slack when they do something politically incorrect, such as raising the flag or appearing insensitive when killing the enemy. In the field, they look sloppy compared to the Army, but are aggressive in the attack and generally unhappy in the defense. Marines take pride in their work, even if that work is war. We are just Marines and that is what we do. Lt. Col. David W. Szelowski USMCR (ret.)

That Sir was an excellent read

Quoted: Here's the difference... www.hunt101.com/img/385475.jpg

Have served in the Air Force, enlisted there is a lot of truth in that picture!!!

Plus have also served on a Honour Guard and traveled to several other service bases I can verify that the Air Force enlisted has better food, better barracks ( better than my college dorm room later in life!), better stores , was a 9 to 5 job doing technical work on jets, opprotunity to travel and cross train into new interesting jobs, If you must be "gun-ho" join the Combat Controllers and act like a solider/Marine setting up forward airbases.

Also best reason for Air Force.........



We sent our Officers to be killed while the enlisted stayed back a hundred miles or miles away.




But having been in Iraq as a civilian with the Army provideing escourt duty and keeping me safe when I would go out with them. They were good, Damm Good and I thank them for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And the Marines when I saw them around they were always sharp!!!!

Just Serve and do a good job and you will always have something to be proud of later in life.

These women Marines single handedly destroyed an entire al queda battalion while on their way to wash their hair.



Now that is tough.

The hats for starters...

+1 Chicks dig the army beret.
-1  All the hot chicks are in the airforce.


If you join the army go Infantry.
Theres other good units besides the Airborn and Ranger stuff. Im gunning for a spot in the 3rd ID. They get to do all the cool stuff the Infantry does. Difference is they get bigger guns and dont have to walk there

The real difference, having served with both is the ideology.

With the Army, you have to explain to the private why he must do something to get the results.
The Army has a lot more tail to tooth ratio (support troops outnumber combatants vastly)

With Marines, your order your private to do a task and forget about it, it's done.
(Every Marine is a rifleman, all go through the same BASIC, MCT and SOI, before being trained for their MOS).  

Marine Corps esprit de corp is the highest I have seen, the units are tight and truly believe that they are invincible.


Semper Fi,

DOC

My father was a Chief Tech Airframes RAF .His whole career and served Falklands/Niarobi/Germany/Aden/Belize/UK various.

He used to say....Son!

In the Army the Officers and the troops both go to war together.

In the Navy the Officers and the sailors both got to war together


BUT

In the Airforce
The troops strap in the Officers and send them to war


Here endeth the lesson

Taffy

My greatest respect to those who do serve at the front. We owe you everything.

i dont really want to touch this thread. its gonna get hot but ill say this, life is full of choices and each service can offer you different things.

if you seriously want to learn how to fight and survive. Marines.

if you want to learn how to fight well but still want to get a job when you get out...Marines

if you want money for college or top-shelf tech training...Army or air force

if easy lifestyle, sideburns and lack of discipline are important to you...air force

if you want to fight and dont mine suffering endless extensions and and not being allowed to wear your issued watch cap even when its cold...army

if you want to be on a big boat with lots of big sweaty men...navy.

Quoted: The real difference, having served with both is the ideology. With the Army, you have to explain to the private why he must do something to get the results. The Army has a lot more tail to tooth ratio (support troops outnumber combatants vastly) With Marines, your order your private to do a task and forget about it, it's done. (Every Marine is a rifleman, all go through the same BASIC, MCT and SOI, before being trained for their MOS).

Well said. You'll get no arguement from me having been in the Army and experienced "why?" at every turn. Fucking privates... and specialists are ever worse.

The Marine Corps has about 10% of the manpower that the Army has.

Autonomy is given to Marines at lower ranks, and when a task is given, it is expected to be done.

Every Marine is a rifleman first. This seems like nothing more than a neat catchy phrase until you get sent to Iraq as a clerk and someone tells you that your skills aren't needed, so grab your rifle and get your pogue ass in the truck. They Army does not train all of it's troops to function well in combat, and many of their support troops don't. In the Army, few support troops end up working in infantry slots. In the Marines, clerks, cooks, communications specialists, and mechanics WILL get put into fighting slots if they are needed.

The Marine Corps is a strict, intense environment. The Army often is too, but to a lesser extent. In the Army, I can, as an E-4, talk freely to an E-7 or E-8 in my shop on a somewhat equal level. When I was a Corporal in the Marines, such conversations were much less pleasent, and could be downright frightening. A Master Sergeant in my Marine Corps transportation unit might injure you if you talk to him like he is your friend.  The ones in the Army infantry unit that I belong to now seem uncomfortable if you are too intense around them. ---This is NOT a universal statement, there are SFCs that will crush you and GySgts that will treat you like you are their kid---

Both branches have great troops, and both have their share of shitbirds.

I couldn't have said it better, the 82nd was the best time of my life. I never loved anything that much.

Quoted: If you decide to go Army, make sure you go Airborne/Infantry. Best time of my life.

I suggest you pick out what you want to do first in ANY of the services, and then post that question. Whatever you choose, give it your all and you will be happy.  

If you want to be a ground pounder that's all great, I did it. Got to jump out of airplanes, helicopters and blow shit up. But try to get some schooling if you can. Not much of a job market for that out of the service.

Quoted: The Marine Corps has about 10% of the manpower that the Army has. Autonomy is given to Marines at lower ranks, and when a task is given, it is expected to be done. Every Marine is a rifleman first. This seems like nothing more than a neat catchy phrase until you get sent to Iraq as a clerk and someone tells you that your skills aren't needed, so grab your rifle and get your pogue ass in the truck. They Army does not train all of it's troops to function well in combat, and many of their support troops don't. In the Army, few support troops end up working in infantry slots. In the Marines, clerks, cooks, communications specialists, and mechanics WILL get put into fighting slots if they are needed. The Marine Corps is a strict, intense environment. The Army often is too, but to a lesser extent. In the Army, I can, as an E-4, talk freely to an E-7 or E-8 in my shop on a somewhat equal level. When I was a Corporal in the Marines, such conversations were much less pleasent, and could be downright frightening. A Master Sergeant in my Marine Corps transportation unit might injure you if you talk to him like he is your friend.  The ones in the Army infantry unit that I belong to now seem uncomfortable if you are too intense around them. ---This is NOT a universal statement, there are SFCs that will crush you and GySgts that will treat you like you are their kid--- Both branches have great troops, and both have their share of shitbirds.

I never threatened my troops.   They spoke freelyto me, and, I to them.
Fucking amazing the things you learn.  nothing like an E-6 diving into an engine block to
motivate troops.  Lead from the front, man.

Quoted: [its the ones who pull one tour, get out, and then talk shit for the rest of their lives that get annoying.  I mean, if its so shit hot, why did ya bail out?

Lot to be said here. Notice that the NCOs with a couple hitches under their belt respect each other's service.

Part of the reason Marines are the way they are is this: We NEED an Army. We do not NEED a Marine Corps.

The Marines have been fighting 2 wars at a time for years. One is with a foriegn enemy, the other war is the CONSTANT fight to stay in existance.


(Before any of you guys start in, remember this: The statement has been made publicly and repeatedly by CMC Chuck Krulak himself.)

"We don't NEED a Marine Corps, we have one simply because the American public demands one....or words to that effect.)

Quoted: Quoted: [its the ones who pull one tour, get out, and then talk shit for the rest of their lives that get annoying.  I mean, if its so shit hot, why did ya bail out? Lot to be said here. Notice that the NCOs with a couple hitches under their belt respect each other's service. Part of the reason Marines are the way they are is this: We NEED an Army. We do not NEED a Marine Corps. The Marines have been fighting 2 wars at a time for years. One is with a foriegn enemy, the other war is the CONSTANT fight to stay in existance. (Before any of you guys start in, remember this: The statement has been made publicly and repeatedly by CMC Chuck Krulak himself.) "We don't NEED a Marine Corps, we have one simply because the American public demands one....or words to that effect.)

Ex-Doggie here that votes for the Marines.  I'll never be a party to the destruction of a
valerous unit's takedown.  Not Army..not Marine.

We need the team.

Quoted: Quoted: [its the ones who pull one tour, get out, and then talk shit for the rest of their lives that get annoying.  I mean, if its so shit hot, why did ya bail out? Lot to be said here. Notice that the NCOs with a couple hitches under their belt respect each other's service. Part of the reason Marines are the way they are is this: We NEED an Army. We do not NEED a Marine Corps. The Marines have been fighting 2 wars at a time for years. One is with a foriegn enemy, the other war is the CONSTANT fight to stay in existance. (Before any of you guys start in, remember this: The statement has been made publicly and repeatedly by CMC Chuck Krulak himself.) "We don't NEED a Marine Corps, we have one simply because the American public demands one....or words to that effect.)

I wish I could argue that. The fact is that the Marine Corps does have to fight for it's existance.

No matter what branch you observe, there are a couple of facts that must be recognized.

The first is that individual units tend to have the characteristics of their leaders. If they have strong leadership, their troops are likely to be more squared away, by necessity if not by choice.

The second is that attitudes, good and bad, are contagious(sp) in poorly supervised units, or units where the troops are trusted to do their jobs without tight supervision. A good Corporal, Lance Corporal, or Specialist can set a great example that everyone will follow. A shitbird fresh from MOS school can poison an entire squad and leave them all dicked up. If the senior E-3s in a section are bums, they will pass their habits on to the new troops that come in. Within a few years an outstanding unit can go to shit and not recover until a full rotation of personnel under close supervision.

As mentioned above. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

I respect Marines. I think they have a greater bond and possibly more pride in what they are than a lot of Army types. (Exception of crowds such as Rangers, Airborne, Cavalry). For example, you can be a tanker, or you can be a Marine Tanker. The one has to the layman a greater standing than the other.

On the other hand, I'm extremely happy being as I am a small cog in the Big Green Weenie. I don't have anything to prove to myself or anyone else, and if you want to be a tanker, it's a hell of a lot easier to work your way into tanks in the Army than in the Marines. I might be wrong, but I believe the Marines give you a lot less choice in where you end up going.

The reporter with the Army noted that the sandstorm had blown
down many of the soldiers' cots. The other reporter countered that the
Marines did not have this problem because they slept on the ground

Well, it's their daft it is then.. I go camping in the field, I make sure I've got somewhere nice and comfy to sleep :-)

NTM

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: [its the ones who pull one tour, get out, and then talk shit for the rest of their lives that get annoying.  I mean, if its so shit hot, why did ya bail out? Lot to be said here. Notice that the NCOs with a couple hitches under their belt respect each other's service. Part of the reason Marines are the way they are is this: We NEED an Army. We do not NEED a Marine Corps. The Marines have been fighting 2 wars at a time for years. One is with a foriegn enemy, the other war is the CONSTANT fight to stay in existance. (Before any of you guys start in, remember this: The statement has been made publicly and repeatedly by CMC Chuck Krulak himself.) "We don't NEED a Marine Corps, we have one simply because the American public demands one....or words to that effect.) Ex-Doggie here that votes for the Marines.  I'll never be a party to the destruction of a valerous unit's takedown.  Not Army..not Marine. We need the team.

Yes, we DO need the team, and as another former Doggie, I agree with you. Marines.

There are many ways to serve your country,but all of us that have served allways respect the Air Borne,Rangers,SPOPS,or Marines!

To say that they have not earned special respect is just that(one must respect that which is unique)I don't mean that anyone that has served is not special!

Just we must remember that the extra mile they go just to be exceptional is sometimes forgotten!

The Marines were first in and hit hard in the Japan Island wars,the Army was fighting the Europian War!  The Army and the Airborne fought a lot of Germans,the Marines both!

We are the Armed Forces(Army,Navy,Air Force and the Marines!!)!

I wish I could said I was a Marine,same as I wish I could say I'm part Apache!!


Cause they are damn good fighters!!!


Bob

Quoted: There are many ways to serve your country,but all of us that have served allways respect the Air Borne,Rangers,SPOPS,or Marines! To say that they have not earned special respect is just that(one must respect that which is unique)I don't mean that anyone that has served is not special! Just we must remember that the extra mile they go just to be exceptional is sometimes forgotten! The Marines were first in and hit hard in the Japan Island wars,the Army was fighting the Europian War!  The Army and the Airborne fought a lot of Germans,the Marines both! We are the Armed Forces(Army,Navy,Air Force and the Marines!!)! I wish I could said I was a Marine,same as I wish I could say I'm part Apache!! Cause they are damn good fighters!!! Bob

You didn't just suggest that the Army was not involved in the fighting in the Pacific, did you?

Quoted: Quoted: There are many ways to serve your country,but all of us that have served allways respect the Air Borne,Rangers,SPOPS,or Marines! To say that they have not earned special respect is just that(one must respect that which is unique)I don't mean that anyone that has served is not special! Just we must remember that the extra mile they go just to be exceptional is sometimes forgotten! The Marines were first in and hit hard in the Japan Island wars,the Army was fighting the Europian War!  The Army and the Airborne fought a lot of Germans,the Marines both! We are the Armed Forces(Army,Navy,Air Force and the Marines!!)! I wish I could said I was a Marine,same as I wish I could say I'm part Apache!! Cause they are damn good fighters!!! Bob You didn't just suggest that the Army was not involved in the fighting in the Pacific, did you?

My old unit...

In 1916 Indiana units were called for duty on the Mexican Border. In 1917 the entire National Guard was mobilized again for service in World War I. The majority of the new 38th (Cyclone) Division came from Indiana units that were eventually deployed to France. Indiana's 150th Field Artillery Regiment fought with distinction as part of the new 42nd (Rainbow) Division. During World War II, the 38th Infantry Division earned combat streamers for three campaigns in the Southwest Pacific, including spearheading the landings on Luzon in the Philippines that regained the Bataan Peninsula from the Japanese. For that, General Douglas MacArthur christened the 38th as the "Avengers of Bataan". Indiana Air Guard units were mobilized and served during the Korean War of the early 1950s and the Berlin Crisis of the early 1960s. Company D (Ranger), 151st Infantry was mobilized during the Vietnam War and earned the distinction as one of the most highly decorated combat units of the war. Personnel from four Army Guard and four Air Guard units from Indiana were called into federal service in support of Operations Desert Shield/Storm in the Middle East.

Though I surely didn't serve during WW2.

No one should accidentally join the Marine Corps.  If after you have read about the various service branches, watch all the war-glory, moto, bs, movies (especially watch Full Metal Jacket) and if you are still uncertain of which branch of service to join, the Corps just isn't for you.  If you want to be a Marine, you can ignore pain to achieve a goal, you have physical and mental metal, then you will love the Marine Corps.  You also might like any of the other branches.

No one should accidentally join the Marine Corps; college money is not enough reason to make it in the Corps.  If you don’t want it, it will screw you up.

I heard recruits quit in boot camp because the recruiter "lied" to them, same in SOI, and same in the Fleet.  No one lied to them, they lied to themselves.  They faked having a purpose in the Corps.  Hear me now, if you don't have an intrinsic reason to join the Marine Corps, then you should probably consider another branch of the service.  Extrinsic motivators, i.e. GI bill, bonus, etc are ok, but they won't cut it.  The Corps is good because it is hard on the weak, so the weak tend to quit sometime between boot camp and the School of Infantry- failure to adapt.  The Corps is tough on people for a reason, they must become warriors.  The Corps did me the favor of killing my first marriage, to a overly intelligent but otherwise weak person; my new wife is hot, smart, and successful.  I can’t complain….


Superfluous personal observations follow:

While I was in Marine Corps Recruit Depot, Parris Island (Boot Camp), my now ex-wife surprised me, and herself, and joined the Army Reserves.  During her year of active service during training, she was top of her class in every way, and by all accounts an outstanding soldier.  In her letters to me, she complained that boot camp and tech school were boring.  Marine Boot Camp was terrifying, exhausting, and painful- especially at first.  When she got out of school, she hated most aspects of her enlistment in the Army Reserves and the National Guard.  All the while she was a good soldier, and her performance got her promoted early, but she still hated her time in service.  The last year of her enlistment in the National Guard, they offered to promote her to SGT, but she declined because she had hated every minute of soldiering.  I blame her personality (note that she is my ex-wife) but the Army culture was also responsible for both her low morale, and the low morale of the units she worked in.  

While we were both in the military I noticed a lot of differences.  She and others I met felt let down by the Army, i.e. they had no esprit de corps.  Her occupations were as a CH47 crew chief and a Cobra weapons system tech.  Some shit-bird and criminally depraved Marines I knew felt perpetually fucked-with, but not let down, they knew they had earned their fucking-with.  She just felt let down.  I'm sure if she'd been in an airborn unit she'd have felt better, but....  

Esprit de Corps is very important.  As a Marine my Unit of Marine Security Guards had esprit de corps.  We worked around sailors, mostly submariners, and I met a lot of really high-speed, go-fast SEAL types- they all had high unit moral.  I also met some stellar losers in the Navy, they mostly scraped barnacles and painted stuff gray.  

I loved the time I spent in the Corps.  But it wasn't cake.  

Early on, and occasionally thereafter, the Corps can be very hard on recruits and newbie’s, thus it instills esprit de corps in its Marines.  I didn't like living in the damned woods for weeks where we ate MRE's for weeks, and shit very little for weeks, and had all the wet and cold that we ever wanted.  I didn’t like the ever present risk of some tired, stressed out, PFC freaking out and blowing his or my head off- it nearly happened to me and the Captain.  I didn’t like the odds when we did live fire training in CQB or MOUT, tired Marines tend to accidentally shoot inches from me.  I didn’t like being part of a unit when the fire team leaders paid for the entire platoon screwing up- we all ran three miles, fire team leaders wore gas masks and Mop Suits.  I didn’t like the boots and utes runs, nor the forced marches, etc….  
All that stuff makes the Marine Corps hard core.  I hated the rigor and absurdly high expectations of the Corps, but I loved the fact that we did whatever absurd shit we were told to do.  People joked that we were too dumb to feel the pain or complain, but that wasn’t all of it, we were just hard.  

Most importantly, I felt like I did some damned good service for my Corps and Countery.  


-Semper Fi

Marine Corps Combat Units all do a annual 25 mile hump with pack/weapon/etc.

It's called a "MCCRES"  Marine Corps Combat Readiness

The requirements are 25 miles in < 8 house with < 6% drops from the unit.

(I got out in '93, so it might be different now)

Obviously, the M.C. has enough trucks and choppers to cart every swingin dick around the A.O., but this is just testimony to the mental toughness required to claim the title.

The Corps has a nack for teaching mission completion.  Above everything.

I have the upmost respect for Rangers, Green Beret's, Seal's, and all other units that train hard, but that seems to be the difference.  It's not that these units don't get the job done, it's just that in conversation with individuals from these units, there seems to be a different mentality about it.

Sorry if this is a bit convoluted, runnin with Mr. Beam tonight.

Like Fishman said, "No one shoud accidentally join the Marine Corps"

In fact, please don't.

Quoted: Quoted: There are many ways to serve your country,but all of us that have served allways respect the Air Borne,Rangers,SPOPS,or Marines! To say that they have not earned special respect is just that(one must respect that which is unique)I don't mean that anyone that has served is not special! Just we must remember that the extra mile they go just to be exceptional is sometimes forgotten! The Marines were first in and hit hard in the Japan Island wars,the Army was fighting the Europian War!  The Army and the Airborne fought a lot of Germans,the Marines both! We are the Armed Forces(Army,Navy,Air Force and the Marines!!)! I wish I could said I was a Marine,same as I wish I could say I'm part Apache!! Cause they are damn good fighters!!! Bob You didn't just suggest that the Army was not involved in the fighting in the Pacific, did you?

Heh...

Hint: Gen MacArthur was no Marine...