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Posted: 12/19/2005 3:57:09 PM EDT
[#1]
Please tell me you are being sarcastic. Please... |
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Posted: 12/19/2005 3:58:45 PM EDT
[#2]
Overrated book, IMO. Not bad, but too long. |
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Posted: 12/19/2005 4:01:46 PM EDT
[#3]
4 dead. |
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Posted: 12/19/2005 4:05:32 PM EDT
[#4]
The "history" part is the better half. |
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Posted: 12/19/2005 4:17:48 PM EDT
[#5]
+1, and to add: I find it odd that the ATF would be going in to investigate child abuse myself. Believe what you want, but this is a CLEAR example of what will happen to anyone who decides to not cooperate with .gov. Think they wouldn't have any other "reasons" to go after anyone? Think of a reason to go in & take 'em out that's what happened. |
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Posted: 12/19/2005 5:17:51 PM EDT
[#6]
+1 |
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Posted: 12/19/2005 5:46:02 PM EDT
[#7]
For all we know, an accidental discharge of somenes weapon, at the scene, caused this horriffic event.
In the other thread on this same subject, I got some pretty vicious e-mails from other arfcom members and team members, or so they claimed to be. I dont buy the gunship flying overhead shooting 5.56 through roofs into babies. I dont buy that FBI went in with the full intention to slaughter people. I dont buy that the FBI setup machine gun nests and shot people during the gas, or later during the fire. I'm not sure on the Flash-Bangs theory, because the BDs had them too. I do think the ATF should have allowed the McClennan County Sherrif take care of this matter. I do believe the FBI should've allowed the sherrif to end the siege like the BD's agreed to. I do believe Lon whats his face is a piece of shit, no matter if he fired or not. I do believe the ATF needed a reality check, and got one...and later a second. I do believe that the entire debacle, from cattle trailer assault, to bulldozing the remenants of the compound was mis-handle. I do think credit should be given to other FBI sniper who outed Lon whats his face, and the on scene commanders at both Mt. Carmel and Ruby Ridge. I do believe credit should be given to the FBI Agent(s) that did indeed brave a fire to pull one of the BDs away from the blaze. I do believe Eric The Hun is a master of calm discussion. Its a pity that the rest of you cant follow his lead. I do believe I'll have another Jack and Coke. I do believe I'll get around to cleaning Hun Farm dirt/sand out of my P226. I do believe this thread will be locked |
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Posted: 12/19/2005 5:59:27 PM EDT
[#8]
      I guess since you are taking guns away from insurgents in a war zone that you see no difference in taking them away from U.S. citizens during peace time. Are you wiping your ass with copies of the Constitution over there in Iraq? Sure seems like it. What troops do in a war zone is not a 100% reflection of what goes on in our country, and you, Mr. 21 year-old enlightened one, seem to be clouded in your judgement of how the two contrast. Very sad. You'll make a good government lackey. |
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Posted: 12/19/2005 6:07:01 PM EDT
[#9]
I still believe the ATF shooting the dogs started it all.
Koresh didn't have any kids old enough to commit incest on. Atf and FBI lied repetedly to the BD's during the seige, they had no reason to believe them. Koresh repeatedly told negotiaters in taped phone conversations, that agents in APC's would come up to the house and tell them that they were going to kill them. He even said they told him they were going to BURN them to death. Did everyone forget the sounds they blasted all the time at the compound? Such nice things as the sounds of animals being mutilated and killed. The constant lights and sirens? They did everything they could to isolate those people. |
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Posted: 12/19/2005 6:14:12 PM EDT
[#10]
I'm re-watching the two docu's I have, and I have to agree with you. The ATF rolled up, and popped those dogs first thing. To anyone inside the building it would say "we are under fire" and they would prolly respond in kind. Of course, why the ATF then felt the need to shoot through doors, walls, and rooves (via helicopter) is anyone's guess. |
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Posted: 12/19/2005 11:04:14 PM EDT
[#11]
Didn't expect to stir up this much controversy.
I knew Waco was a HUGE turning point in my life - I went from thinking, "Good, child-raping religious Messiah figure and demented followers got roasted. Great!" to "Hey, why'd the ATF get involved." to "newslady's holding up a 20 mm cannon round saying 'bullets like this were flying through the air at the ATF agents, what bullshit," to "Uh, oh, I got totally suckered by the Left Leaning Losers in media who are desperately trying to cover for Kintax and George Bush I's craptastic lies at RR and Waco." I really became a gun owner in earnest when I figured out that the culture war between the Left and decent Americans had been kicked into high gear by the Smacktard In Chief. Been one ever since. |
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Posted: 12/20/2005 3:12:21 AM EDT
[#12]
This thread just amazes me. I had to sign up on this board just to post on this, thanks to a friend tipping me off. Some of you guys seem to have your heads on pretty straight and have made this an intelligent discussion. Then there are one or two others....
To Mr Tyman here, no accusations of incest were EVER leveled against the Waco BD community, even by their worst critics. That includes ATF. I don't know where you got that funny quote about somebody named Warren Jeffs, but I have never seen that name or any of those accusations in connection with the community at issue here. He was NEVER a leader of the group in Waco from the time V.T. Houteff brought them to Texas, through the succession of the Rodens to Vernon Howell/David Koresh. Bigamy was NEVER a part of the BD theology and never was practised or preached. While David Koresh did, in the last 4 or 5 years, take many of the women in the community for his own with the intended purpose of fathering 24 children, he had only one legal wife, Rachel. He did this for reasons he believed were scriptural and that duty was his alone, not something practised by the community. I am not going to get into a discourse on his message or theology here though, nor is it my intention to justify that but rather to establish the proper facts and discount an unfounded and false statement. You've made a few others here too, and it is obvious that you are not very much up on your facts, while deriding others. It has been correctly pointed out by others that all child abuse allegations were investigated and dismissed by the state of Texas who had proper authority and jurisdiction in the matter. While the FBI did renew those accusations in the course of briefings with AG Reno, in an effort to spur her to OK their gas assault plan, and she did say publicly that this helped prompt her decision, the FBI later denied they had done so and left her hanging. It is worth noting that the FBI pushed for several weeks to implement the CS gas attack and never seriously negotiated in good faith to end the situation peacefully. Certainly, several of the negotiators were sincerely trying to accomplish that, but every success they had was instantly undermined by the tactical commander, Jeff Jamar, who kept one of his goons listening to all communications to gain info he could use for intimidation. This is what rose to the deep chasm of distrust between the Davidians and the FBI. Every experience they had was one of betrayal, which is why after about two weeks no more members left the building. They had seen every promise broken and then heard the press conferences full of distorsions and half truths, designed to place the blame on Koresh. The fact is an opportunity for the group to peacefully exit the building was never really made available to them. They were dealing with an agency that wanted to punish them through intimidation, degredation, humiliation and ultimately violence for daring to defend themselves against the federal LE machine and embarrassing the beast. There is overwhelming evidence that the FBI expected a fire on April19th. About two days prior, the FBI made arrangements for 80 body bags, set up helicopter evacuation plans and made calls to establish the number of hospital beds available, between Waco and DFW, for burn victims. Agents in the tanks were issued nomex suits. Then there is the famous inquiry by an FBI agent as to how many fire extinguishers were available inside to the Davidians. Upon being told by Steve Schnieder that they had only one, the agent made the "Somebody better buy some fire insurance" comment, recorded for all posterity. If one needs any more evidence that major casualties were considered probable, even acceptable, there is the recorded exchange between HRT Commander Dick Rogers and SAC Jeff Jamar, as the building is totally consumed and "rescue" of survivors is considered: Jamar- "Our people are focused in the bus area for the kids, is that what we're doing?" Rogers- "That's what we're trying to do." Jamar- "No one else, I hope." THey denied the exchange took place, until the recording was played for them. Those of you who point out that the first shots fired were the AFT agents killing the dogs, are probably right. Evidence points to that as the most likely conclusion. There is also the apparent accidental discharge of his holstered pistol by one agent on a ladder, but it is difficult to say that this happened before the dogs. Also, Davidians in the rear portion of the building said the first shots came from an approaching helicopter. It might well have depended on where one was in the building as to which shots you heard first. However several ATF agents, who were in a position to know, consistently said that the first shots they heard were from the direction of the dog pen and they believed that these were the first shots fired. If you haven't heard of this testimony before, it is becouse it comes from the initial interviews taken by the Texas Rangers during the first hours after the Feb. 28 raid. The leader of the front door team was among those who stated this. Later, when the big fish stories about being met at the front door by a hail of machine gun fire were being told, these same agents were denying that they had changed their stories, only to be confronted with their original statements. I was personally in the courtroom watching the agents squirm under the cross examination, in case any of you are wondering where this info comes from. Which brings me to the front doors. What many of you probably don't know is that the left half of the front door is actually in evidence. I have seen it. The problem is, no one questions the left door. What BOTH sides have testified to is that the shots that first came through the door, probably AFTER the dogs had been shot, were specifically fired through the RIGHT door. Of course the debate is whether they were fired in by ATF or out by the Davidians. Since it is proven that both sides were pulled out of the building by a tank before the fire and survived intact, were collected that afternoon and that the right side has never been accounted for, there is only one likely conclusion, backed by two attorneys who went through those doors several times, and every surviving resident. The only ones who claim the shots were from inside are the ones who managed to "lose" one half of the door while in their custody, yet retaining the other. So the only piece of physical evidence that could conclusively support and prove the ATF's contention or disprove it, is still MIA. The left door sustained damage from the tanks and had bullet holes that do not appear in an early photo taken after the intitial gun fight on Feb.28. It was pretty well flattened, but I have no way to tell when those holes appeared. Could have been on April 19th, or maybe they happened on Feb 28th, but sometime after the initial exchange there. For further proof as to which side was shooting first at the door, pictures show the agents still immediately in front of the door, with no sign of being shot at from within, totally exposed, while the right door is still slightly ajar and is peppered as per testimony from both sides. http://members.dslextreme.com/users/rollin13/images/bulletholes.jpghttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/rollin13/images/upfront.jpg Someone said something skeptical about 5.56 rounds from the helicopters and pentration I think. No one claims that the shots from the helicopters were ripping through multiple floors. I am not even sure what round was being fired, or from what weapons. What the ATF stipulated was that individual agents had small arms with them in the helicopters, and even that they MIGHT have fired, but whether they had MP5s or M16s, I don't know. The damage claimed from the helicopters could have been done by either so that is rather moot. Specifically, Winston Blake was shot from an angle down, as evidenced by the plastic water tanks that were penetrated at such an angle to cause them to leak into Blake's room. He was head shot through his window and probably never knew what hit him. Also, Peter Gent is seen on video collapsing from a shot at the top of the water tower, just as a helicopter passes. The angle would have been impossible from the ground, as he was not likely even visible. There are published photos of the tower as it is being dismantled. The area immediately around the trap door where Gent was shot, has been cut out cleanly and is no where to be seen, though the remainder to the tower top is intact. There was much eyewitness testimony to the holes in the residential tower roof, and that these were visibly incoming because of the tearing of insulation and ceiling material. It is also likely that three of the four agents who were killed were shot by friendly fire as they were in an area where fire from the copters was largely directed, according to testimony. Forensic evidence was either not collected or remains unseen. The loss of the building covered up much that was hotly discussed in negotiations, with Davidian fears for the survival of the structure quite evident, as they new it was critical to proving their case. Ah, the machine gun question! Nope, no M60 or .50 cal M2HB. Yes, two Barrett semis. Saw one of them, well done. Little known is the fact that the entire fire fight of Feb 19th is caught on audio tape, from two sources. One is the 911 call from Wayne Martin to the Sheriff's office which, while interrupted a couple of times, catches most everything including converstions with Koresh and Lt. Lynch. The other is the ATF's own recording from their radio van. Both tapes leave no doubt that, with the exception of one short burst, about 12 minutes into the battle, all fire is SEMI-AUTOMATIC. Initial ATF testimony from the front door team leader states specifically that fire was semi. That one point is noted on both the ATF and the 911 tape, with comments from Lynch and an ATF agent. An agent calls for fire to be directed at one of the towers and half a minute later, an agent anounces he got THE machine gun. Seems likely that, several minutes into the fire fight, one Davidian swapped some parts or something and started spraying. Evidently he didn't last long. However, to this day, no outside study has ever been allowed of the 48 guns the FBI claims were converted. Which brings up an interesting point. At the criminal trial, the convictions of most defendants were only for possession of a firearm in the commission of a felony. However, since none were convicted of a felony, the murder and conspriacy to commit murder charges having lost out to self defense against excessive force, Judge Walter Smith originally said he would have to dismiss the possession charge as it could not stand alone and the Jury had misunderstood their instructions. Several defendants stood to be released as, after all, one can't be guilty of possession of a weapon in commission of a felony when one is not convicted of any felony! What happened was this. Judge Smith changed his mind and made the determination that they were indeed guilty of the possession charge and that the felony was indeed murder and conspiracy to commit murder, essentially throwing out his own instructions to the jury. Then, he made a determination of "fact" that had never been even put to the jury, and that the firearms in question were "machine guns." That permitted him to add 25 years to the initial 15 year sentences. Hence 40 years for crimes they, basically, had been acquitted of. The SCOTUS reversed the machine gun factor as a matter that could only have been decided by the jury as fact, and was not within the judge's authority for sentencing purposes. The 25 years were thus removed. So why was the machine gun charge NEVER LEVELED during the criminal trials? Why was NO ONE ever actually charged with having converted or possessed a machine gun? Why did the FBI so readily give in to the display of only a sample of each type of firearm recovered at the civil trial, rather than parade all 300 as they did in the criminal trial? At the criminal trial the 300 guns were brought in to try to impress upon the jury that the Davidians were "stockpiling" but never was the question addressed of machine guns in terms of fact. In the civil trial, Plaintiffs attorneys stipulated the number of guns in exchange for only samples of each type to be brough in. They feared the spectacle of 300 guns beng paraded in again, and were never allowed to examine the representative sample of toasted guns, They were only able to handle them in the course of cross examination of agents, as a prop for related questions. The Texas Ranger who collected much of the gun evidence was asked, on the stand, if he could tell whether an AR-15 type weapon had been converted. He said he could not. With no way to prove one way or the other, the Davidian's attorneys were unable to do more than ask vague questions like that. The ATF/FBI would NOT bring up the issue as they would have to allow independent experts to examine the guns. By never letting the machine gun conversion issue, the very basis for the investigation, affidavit, search warrants and the raid, become an issue of fact in any of the procedings, the agencies were able to dodge any potential for contradiction of their own claims, that 48 machine guns were found at Mt. Carmel. Very clever. This extended to keeping Davy Aguilera, the agent in charge of the investigation, who authored the laughable affidavit and flew in one of the helicopters, from ever appearing on any witness list. He has never been heard from on record. I am sure there is more I could respond to, but this is enough for one sitting. I'll be interested in any replies. |
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Posted: 12/20/2005 3:47:20 AM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 12/20/2005 4:15:43 AM EDT
[#14]
Thankyou for posting. I really appreciate your trouble, and hope people here benefit from your experiences.
Dave ETA: In what capacity were you sitting in the courtroom? |
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Posted: 12/20/2005 4:16:22 AM EDT
[#15]
Bump to the top for the nay sayers.
Who are you OLucky Man? Cop Victem or defender? |
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Posted: 12/20/2005 4:23:09 AM EDT
[#16]
OLuckyMan - that is a fantastic post.
It just makes me so
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Posted: 12/20/2005 4:34:08 AM EDT
[#17]
The serial numbers were traced to the government agents. They admitted to using them in the hearings HOW can you not believe that? So you think the Branch Davidians are lieing AND the government is lieing too? |
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Posted: 12/20/2005 4:59:58 AM EDT
[#18]
I'm hearing crickets..... Where are all the apologists?
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Posted: 12/20/2005 5:14:57 AM EDT
[#19]
tag
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Posted: 12/20/2005 5:23:32 AM EDT
[#20]
I hear the crickets also, id also like to read some more of what OLuckyMan has to say.
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Posted: 12/20/2005 5:28:26 AM EDT
[#21]
There are a lot of Germans who don't belive the holocaust ever happened, come to think of it..
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Posted: 12/20/2005 5:29:43 AM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 12/20/2005 7:46:25 AM EDT
[#23]
*chirpchirp*
 Anyone have an explanation for this pic? |
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Posted: 12/20/2005 8:25:30 AM EDT
[#24]
yes, coverup. |
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Posted: 12/20/2005 9:03:26 AM EDT
[#25]
BTT, making sure that the Apologists are given benefit of doubt..
ETA: C'mon guys, this really does need to be discussed, debated, whatever. |
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Posted: 12/20/2005 9:21:46 AM EDT
[#26]
When I saw the ATF flag flying over the "compound," like soldiers would set up a flag on a hill where they just defeated an enemy in battle, I was sickened - what they did was kill some religious extremists and their CHILDREN. Wo0T! Let's PUT UP A FLAG! What kind of mentality is that? |
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Posted: 12/20/2005 9:35:56 AM EDT
[#27]
Gullible, ignorant idiots that like to say "w00t! KILL THEM ALL!", perhaps? |
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Posted: 12/20/2005 9:43:25 AM EDT
[#28]
Yeah, actually, I do. I believe both sides distorted truth. I'm not talking about flash-bangs being used during the initial raid, I'm talking aboutpeople who a saying that bloodthirty agents purposefully threw flash bangs in the fuel room at the compound. Oh, and to get something clear to the piece of shit who just insulted my family in an email, I dont believe the ATF or FBI handled this apprpriately. Never have. I'm not a government apologist, I just dont beleive everything I read. I cant beleive some of you people are taking this shit so seriously as to send curse word laden, threatening emails. I'm through with this subject, and I'm tired of the hate. And how convienient, a third thread in GD about the very samething. I guess 1 or 2 wasnt enough. Guess what, conspiracy junkies, Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. |
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Posted: 12/20/2005 10:03:25 AM EDT
[#29]
understatement... of the year. ETA: Thanks for sharing your insights. This topic comes up every now and then and has been discussed ad nauseum on this forum over the years. Some people get it. Some don't. Some never will. |
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Posted: 12/20/2005 10:10:31 AM EDT
[#30]
The same mentality that made the one agent piss on the ashes. You couldn't make this shit up, I swear... |
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Posted: 12/20/2005 10:14:18 AM EDT
[#31]
You're dreaming, bud. A Tory's a Tory. What you say on the intraweb isn't going to change that. |
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Posted: 12/20/2005 10:14:49 AM EDT
[#32]
Man, that offline stuff ain't cool.. Sorry to hear that. If you ask me though, three threads just isn't enough and won't be enough until every one of those agents is brought up on charges.Go if you must but this is aweful important. Dave |
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Posted: 12/20/2005 1:25:59 PM EDT
[#33]
That's B.S.
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Posted: 12/20/2005 2:10:06 PM EDT
[#34]
Doors, flash bangs, dogs, incest... I don't know what did or didn't happen. I wasn't there. I saw footage of grainy color distorted video that kinda showed this and that intersperced with clear ghastly footage of the dead.
I do know I watched with my own two eyes FLIR footage that showed heavily armed Federal LEO sending suppressive fire into the doorway of a concrete room full of women and children that were trying to escape the intense heat of a fire that was turning that concrete box into a broiler. They kept those people, those innocent children and babies, in that room untill the baked to death. They probably didn't have anything in there burning either so they didn't have the luxury of smoke inhalation to put them out of thier misery before their blood boiled and thier skin cracked and peeled off from the heat. So if you want you can support the ATF and FBI and say they were just doing thier jobs, or they were defending themselves. But what I saw was the torture, murder, and cover up of 80+ UNITED STATES CITIZENS being executed by the very people that supposedly SWEAR AN OATH to uphold the Constitution, the highest law of our land! |
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Posted: 12/20/2005 2:12:50 PM EDT
[#35]
#@$holes who send these type of e-mails are the reason we have the problems we do keeping our RKBA. Makes all of us look bad and hurts us in the long run. You can put powdered sugar on it, but a piece of @#$% is still a piece of #$%@!!!!! Semper Fi, ASO544 |
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Posted: 12/20/2005 3:58:05 PM EDT
[#36]
In answer to questions about who I am and in what capacity I was in the courtroom, I am a friend and supporter of several of the surviving Davidians. I got to know them upon attending the civil trial as an observer and at the past few memorial services at Mt. Carmel Center. The information I have comes from eyewitness testimony I have personally been told, what I saw in the civil trial during the government's presentation in defense, the court documents, FBI/ATF/DOD documents obtained by FOIA, etc. There is a lot of heat still rising on this and much is still not known, nor will it ever be conclusively due the the rampant destruction of evidence that began almost immediately upon the FBI assuming control on the evening of Feb 28th.
A word about the flash bangs. The ATF used plenty during the raid. At least one, maybe two were left behind in the building, unused. Remember that wounded agents were inside and evacuated after the cease fire. Koresh's attorney mentioned that there were one or two still there that he was shown. After the fire, six exploded flash bangs were found and logged at the three points where the fires are believed to have started. However, they were all cataloged as "homemade silencers" and were not discovered as to their true nature and significance until Mike McNulty found them in about 1999. There is also a number of other incendiary 40mm grenades that were fired, two at the tornado shelter and others in the building. This included soem illumination flares which the FBI brought over after training at Ft. hood a few days before the fire. There is a DOD doc that reports on the grenade launcher training, type of ammo and includes a handwritten note authorizing the FBI to take the 40mm parachute flares with them, specifically to Mt. Carmel. There are two casings in the evidence catalog of which I have seen pics, and a third was found at Mt Carmel just 2 oer 3 years ago, which I have personally examined and photographed. It is the exact same type as in the evidence and the DOD doc. I personally believe the government deliberately set the building on fire, but it is not possible to prove beyond reasonable doubt. I have heard all the bug tapes and they are impossible to really make anything of. From conversations during negotiations and the trail of paper showing prep for a fire, it is obvious that the FBI intended the building to burn. That does NOT mean they deliberately intended to incinerate everyone inside, just that they wanted to destroy all evidence that would hang the ATF over the raid. The references to the ballistic evidence during negotiations shows that the Davidians were determined to preserve that as they insisted that it would exonerate them and prove they were in no way at fault for the ATF deaths in the raid, that they shot first or set any kind of ambush. They had nothing to gain by the destruction of the building. It seems the government did, however. Along with the Texas Rangers, the Davidians were livid at the moving and destrucion of the vehicles at the front during the seige, as it ruined critical ballistic evidence. In the end I think that, after a few hours of pumping in gas with little apparent result, the boys got a little angry and no longer cared who got out. Certainly, they strategically damaged the building in a fashion that was calculated to make exiting difficult, if not impossible, and that has to make one wonder what they really intended as to potential survivors. I have plenty more if anybody really wants it, but I have limited time to come here and post so be patient. I recommend that anybody who really wants the dirtiest details get David T. Hardy's book, "This is Not an Assault." Hardy is the man who FOIA'd enough evidence from the government's own hands to hang them by the balls. That is, if ever they could be brought to trial! (Don't hold your breath...) |
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Posted: 12/20/2005 5:52:41 PM EDT
[#37]
I for one would like to read everything you have to type OLuckyMan
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Posted: 12/20/2005 6:05:29 PM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 12/20/2005 6:08:38 PM EDT
[#39]
Keep it coming, fella.
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Posted: 12/20/2005 6:21:51 PM EDT
[#40]
And not only that, now that you logged onto this site your name went on another 4-8 "lists" the .gov neither confirms nor denies the existance of...
I'd love to hear more of what you have to say aswell. |
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Posted: 12/20/2005 6:47:12 PM EDT
[#41]
I never wrote anything about Koresh burning his own followers. He was obsessed with the idea that he and his followers were going to go in a fiery battle. Is that why they surrounded themselves with fuel and weapons and refused to come out? His predicions had not come truwe in the past and he was frustrated. This time he would make them come true... Link There's a lot more if you google Koresh + Predict |
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Posted: 12/20/2005 10:08:16 PM EDT
[#42]
OLuckyMan bump, per a member's request. Guys, the Waco incident is too important for us to just blow off in one night.
There's probably a bunch of twenty-somethings reading this on our little gun forum here that barely have a memory of what happened at Mt. Carmel, and if prompted, will spout the media-and-government-inspired lies that became "truths" when the Klintax Brigade (Lanny Davis, Janet Reno, Web Hubbel, and the rest of the Socialists that he had running things) had their buds at CBS, ABC, and NBC run interference for Johnny Law. |
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Posted: 12/21/2005 1:19:16 AM EDT
[#43]
He had a vision. He foresaw the government using tanks against them - something unthinkable before Waco. He was convinced it was End Times, Armaggedon Is that a good reason to make it come true? Is that a good reason to wait for a very windy day? Is that a good reason to punch strategic holes in the building, creating a flowing furnace effect? Is that a good reason to ensure no fire rescue would be available? |
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Posted: 12/21/2005 3:00:52 AM EDT
[#44]
TAG
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Posted: 12/21/2005 3:01:54 AM EDT
[#45]
I'd be shocked if The Man didn't already know what he ate for breakfast today just for him being in the courtroom and claiming to be a friend of the Davidians..... Definitely on a shit-list somewhere! |
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Posted: 12/21/2005 4:37:57 AM EDT
[#46]
What people need to realize is this: The .gov hasn't got the resources to deal with mass/multiple issues all at once.
For Pete's sake, look at Katrina, people. Everybody KNEW the whirlwind was coming and STILL every level of government looked like the friggen Keystone Kops. Bring it the fuck on, I say. I've been on the other side. I know how little backbone our leaders have. I've seen the house of cards they've built. It's all a facade. We're MEANT to fear The Man (.gov), but He's just like the Wizard of Oz. He comes across as this all-knowing, all-powerful being but HE'S JUST A LITTLE FREAK PULLING STRINGS BEHIND THE SCENES. Wake up, folks. Wake up. |
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Posted: 12/21/2005 5:32:08 AM EDT
[#47]
So now you're a believer? Have you ever heard of a self fulfilling prophecy? |
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Posted: 12/21/2005 5:50:58 AM EDT
[#48]
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Too quick on the trigger. |
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Posted: 12/21/2005 5:56:03 AM EDT
[#49]
One day this might happen to YOU. After all, you are a Psycho-wacko Better be careful how much you pat the government on back for a "job well done."  CMOS |
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Posted: 12/21/2005 6:06:00 AM EDT
[#50]
Your Momma is so proud of you..................  ALL POWER TO THE STATE!!!!!...............right?........ 
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