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Posted: 1/20/2006 1:40:07 PM EDT
[#1]
 How do you figure that?
So that is WCC'03 (2003 production brass) While TBS hasnt come forward with specifics and lot numbers (if he has those) almost all of the 2003 WCC is Q3131A, made in Israel. Certainly not "an old batch" by any means. |
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Posted: 1/20/2006 1:44:03 PM EDT
[#2]
I would like to see the upgrade when you get it just to see how they have strengthed the upper. I really really wanted one but only if they upgrade the upper's strength somehow or at least find a way to force the bolt and carrier to stay attached during a problem like this.
Hi-point also offers this kind of warranty |
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Posted: 1/20/2006 2:03:36 PM EDT
[#3]
Wish there were more people out there like you...glad you're OK. |
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Posted: 1/20/2006 2:18:53 PM EDT
[#4]
it should be here tomorrow. i will post pics. i don't know if the "changes" will be aparent or not. as i have no inside the reciever pics to compare. i am still amazed at the level of contact and support they have given me. I really expected nothing more than a review of the gun and a report to send to win. if that was the fault. my dealing with past companies i have rarely gotten an explanation of the problem if anything was done at all. as for high point, for crappy cheap guns their warranty is top notch also. i had a 9mm carbine that litteraly had so many rounds through it without cleaning or lube that the trigger siezed up. i call to inquire about buying some parts to replace the worn was <torture test gun> they not only replced them they over nighted them to me even after i told them regular shipping was fine. I'm not real big on thier guns, but they have service right. |
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Posted: 1/20/2006 2:41:13 PM EDT
[#5]
Think they will fix it twice if you finish off that ammo and blow this one up?
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Posted: 1/20/2006 2:46:52 PM EDT
[#6]
lol
only one way to find out if it did i wouldn't expect them to do anything other than just laugh at my dumbass. |
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Posted: 1/20/2006 3:11:40 PM EDT
[#7]
Tag, and IATL too, just for good measure.
That's some damm good customer service. I'm not really interested in that particular gun, but I just might get one of their SUB2000 carbines to go with my P11, and maybe a P32 or P3AT too. FWIW, I was having some reliability problems with my P11 a few years back, mostly frequent jamming with Winchester White Box 9mm. I took it to the Kel-Tec shop in person (I was going through the area on a trip home), and they installed a new extractor, and a new grip frame too for free. That greatly reduced the failures, and switching away from WWB eliminated the rest of them. |
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Posted: 1/21/2006 2:24:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Damn. that seems to be the Kel Tec story...
"Uh, it's a great gun, I only had to send it back to the factory twice, but they fixed it right up. Boy! what great customer service." "Every time it breaks or I have to get it fixed, they are SOOO responsive!" "Never any trouble in getting it to them and back again, I've done it three or four times. Fantastic customer service!" I always thought great customer service started with building a gun that worked right out of the box, had everything put together right when you got it, and didn't blow up with normal use. Maybe it's just me... |
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Posted: 1/21/2006 2:29:41 PM EDT
[#9]
Every sub-2000 and SU16 review or owner's comment I have read say they just keep running and running like the energizer bunny. I don't know about their pistol line but based on feedback from owners I would have no qualms owning either one of these carbines by KelTec. They are on my short buy list. FWIW the only Glock I have owned, a G17, was one of the most malfunction prone pistols I have ever owned. I routinely hear about issues with Beretta Pistols and Springfield 1911s and M1As. Does that make them all crap? Any firearm can blow up with a bad cartridge. Sounds like you had your mind made up before Beer_Slayer posted anything about it. |
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Posted: 1/21/2006 2:39:01 PM EDT
[#10]
I have a sub 2k that I have put well over 10k thru it and it shoots fine everytime. I have killed more feral cats than you can count and a host of other critters with it.
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Posted: 1/21/2006 5:08:06 PM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 1/21/2006 5:24:42 PM EDT
[#12]
bu
thats a good question. they didn't mention anything wrong with it so i'd assume so. i will email them tomorrow and see what they have to say about it. |
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Posted: 1/21/2006 5:57:57 PM EDT
[#13]
yes, it is rated for 5.56
they even say 5.56 on the side of the receiver. The original SU-16 rifles said .223 on the side but they were always rated for 5.56 also and now they say 5.56 on the receiver. |
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Posted: 1/21/2006 9:00:59 PM EDT
[#14]
See what happens when you bump-fire underwater?
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Posted: 1/21/2006 10:49:18 PM EDT
[#15]
Hate to beat my own drum but I told you so. All the Kel Tec haters and overpressure theorists were proved wrong. All it takes is a little too much extrusion on the case forming operation to cause a thin web. The material gets drawn into the case walls, making it hard to measure by weight but somehow the web thickness measurement got overlooked. Happened to Federal American Eagle in 1999. Too bad it happened to Winchester. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 12:15:26 AM EDT
[#16]
Did Kel-Tec say what the serial number range of the modified PLRs are? I'd still like to get one but would like to know which ones have the modified carrier. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 12:26:59 AM EDT
[#17]
Sounds Good
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Posted: 1/22/2006 6:35:39 AM EDT
[#18]
I've been considering one of these.
How well would a forged aluminum reciever fair with a similar failure? I know the reason for the plastic is cost, however ammo can and does fail, not really a good choice of materials when you consider the potential for bodily harm if something went wrong. I have a Sub2000 and like it alot. We've seen that the customer service is great, they can replace your gun can they replace your eye? Seeing that gun in pieces really makes me re-think holding plastic next to my face, especially the fact it may need to tame 55,000 psi. If a metal gun would have had the same effect,( I don't know either way), than my statements are kinda void I guess. And the guy who posted the speed in flight, maybe I missed something. Question how can you figure flight speed just on distance of travel? to be accurate would you need mass as well? Not a dig, just an honest question. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 1:33:55 PM EDT
[#19]
I still want one......
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Posted: 1/22/2006 3:54:27 PM EDT
[#20]
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Posted: 1/24/2006 11:10:17 AM EDT
[#21]
well i got the replacement today. not only did they rebuild the gun they tossed in the forgrip and install the muzzel break for my troubles. Not only that i had sent in my p3at for some minor work in the same box. Not only was it returned with this one <2-3 day turn around> it was replaced with a NEW current genration p3at.
All i can honestky say is wow. These folks went WAY above and beyond what i would have ever expected them to do. I am greatful for all they have done. I still have not made up my mind to kepp the .223. i will be a keltec customer for life and will let everyone that asks know about my experience with them. heres the new pic.... 
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Posted: 1/24/2006 11:14:29 AM EDT
[#22]
wow. Been looking for a small-frame auto for my wife. I think I've made my decision.
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Posted: 1/24/2006 11:15:57 AM EDT
[#23]
Awesome! |
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Posted: 1/24/2006 11:19:53 AM EDT
[#24]
if you go with the p32/380 gun let her shoot mine before you buy one.
recoil is nasty! on the 380 |
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Posted: 1/24/2006 11:24:52 AM EDT
[#25]
Hard to believe they are both considered pistols. Kinda like Pomeranians and Mastiffs both being canines. Great service. Nice to see a responsive and responsible company. |
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Posted: 1/24/2006 11:52:58 AM EDT
[#26]
Glad to see it got resolved
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Posted: 1/24/2006 12:12:23 PM EDT
[#27]
Just fucking cool. |
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Posted: 1/24/2006 12:15:36 PM EDT
[#28]
Could not say it better my self! |
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Posted: 1/24/2006 12:21:48 PM EDT
[#29]
Now that's amazing. Could you imagine how different your contact with them could have gone if you hadn't been as patient with them? You were nice to them, and they were amazing in their response to you. Congrats on the upgrades.
I'm looking at getting a PLR16 now, mostly because of your experience with them, but also because that thing looks wicked. |
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Posted: 1/24/2006 12:22:03 PM EDT
[#30]
TBS:
Can you see any differences in the bolt carrier with respect to gas venting? If you could post photos of those parts, I think many here would find them to be of interest. I've shot the P3AT and agree that as with most recoil operated .380 pistols, recoil is a sum bitch. Point of fact, my favorite .380 is an old Spanish "Model S" gun that uses the swinging link locked breach. Its overkill to lock the breach on a .380, but in so doing they were able to go with a much lighter slide, and the recoil is more of a rolling push than a snapping kick. Still, i like the way the p3at feels and with this kind of customer services, well, can't beat it. |
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Posted: 1/24/2006 12:26:45 PM EDT
[#31]
Er.... you were in the thread? here's the paste..
According to the ammo oracle: Q3131 is the U.S.-manufactured Winchester M193, but since 2000 (and coinciding with the transition at the Lake City plant which left it shut down), Winchester's M193/Q3131 ammo has all gone to the military. Due to the demand during the Y2K scare, Winchester had subcontracted some of its civilian M193 production to IMI. Winchester has continued this contract, and the IMI-produced ammo is labeled Q3131A by Winchester. So, if it was Q3131..either a) it was pre-2000, or b) it wasn't Q3131 at all, in which case the quoted lines above are incorrect, either faulty information was relayed, or whatever. Edited to fix quoting.. |
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Posted: 1/24/2006 12:34:19 PM EDT
[#32]
i will get some photos of that up shortly. I don't see anything cosemtically that looks different, but without the old bolt to directly compare i doubt i would anyway. From an external view they appear to be the same. For anyone that is interested in the change <on all NEW plr's and su carbines> i reccomned email keltec directly. i have no doubt they will happily answer your questions. |
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Posted: 1/24/2006 12:36:57 PM EDT
[#33]
Dumb Question....is this gun chambered in 5.56mm or .223?
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Posted: 1/24/2006 12:40:22 PM EDT
[#34]
had glock even shown a remote interest in fixing my 30 i'd still own glocks. |
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Posted: 1/24/2006 12:40:58 PM EDT
[#35]
per keltec.... 5.56. it is also stamped 5.56 on the gun. |
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Posted: 1/24/2006 12:43:59 PM EDT
[#36]
Props to TBS for the way he handled this whole matter. I have no dog in this fight (ok so I own a P3AT, so maybe I have a little dog
 ) I see WAY too many people spout off garbage re. manufacturers, products, dealers, members before looking at the situation other than from their own biased perspective.  Great job TBS for providing info, answers and updates with class in a very public forum.  Props also to the manufacturer for checking into the issue and taking care of the customer.  ETA - good use for post 666 
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Posted: 1/24/2006 12:55:07 PM EDT
[#37]
Nope. I quoted the year produced in the post you just quoted.
Exactly.... many people call Q3131A "q3131" generically, and leave off the "A". And I quoted where it specifically said this was 2003 headstamp. Therefore..... it wasn't Q3131, it was Q3131A. And it wasnt an "old" lot. 2003 stuff is pretty fresh. So it definitely wasnt the bad batch of 1999 deomostic Q3131.... which is all I was trying to make sure was clear. |
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Posted: 1/24/2006 1:01:53 PM EDT
[#38]
Wow, I dont think any company could have handled this better than Kel Tec did. I admire that greatly. I do love my little P11.... And I know one of the .223 pistols will end up in my safe soon enough...
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Posted: 1/24/2006 6:49:09 PM EDT
[#39]
Sweet. Did you notice any difference in the internal parts?
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Posted: 1/24/2006 7:08:19 PM EDT
[#41]
tag
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Posted: 1/24/2006 7:20:26 PM EDT
[#42]
I am very glad you were not hurt.
 After having gone through having to send a gun back to the maker before myself, customer service is now a top criterion in any future purchase (in my case it was a P99 and S&W/WA made the whole experience less painful than returning a bag of grapes to the supermarket; they are great too and went above and beyond). Very nice to hear that KEL-TEC treats their customers this way. Companies that stand behind their products are harder and harder to come by these days, it is refreshing that some gun makers are taking the lead. PLRinmypocket , is KEL-TEC going to get the PLR-16 Maryland certified? I would like to buy one 
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Posted: 1/24/2006 7:24:46 PM EDT
[#43]
+1 I am glad it all worked out so well. Keltec sounds like they know how to treat customers. Some other people in the industry should be taking notes. ARH |
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Posted: 1/24/2006 8:31:09 PM EDT
[#44]
cool
I would update the tread title to somethijng more postive if it was me |
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Posted: 1/25/2006 8:16:02 AM EDT
[#45]
been emailing with keltec about the change.
the cut a groove in the bolt carrier right above the bolt to vent gas. Per keltec thy have not been able to get a reciever to fail even with an obstructed barrell since the addition of the change. once he told me where to look it was obvious. i will try to get some pics up this evening if i can get my camera to work. it died a couple of days ago. mike |
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Posted: 1/25/2006 8:37:11 AM EDT
[#46]
Well, get out there and shoot it, ya pussy.
 Seriously, Mike, you did handle this very well. Most guys are quick to bash any company. Glad you didn't get seriously hurt and glad everything seems to have worked out. Hope all is well with you and Mona. Tell her I said hi. Mark |
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Posted: 1/25/2006 8:42:20 AM EDT
[#47]
Yup. You called it dead on. |
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Posted: 1/25/2006 8:45:32 AM EDT
[#48]
Nice to see they did their due diligence. Things will happen, its how you react to them that differentiates you from your competitor. I own a p3at. I'd consider owning one of these as well.
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Posted: 1/25/2006 8:49:56 AM EDT
[#49]
After I've bought the guns higher up on my list of stuff to buy, I think I'll spend some money on Kel-Tec's products based on reviews of their firearms and their customer service.
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Posted: 1/25/2006 9:29:05 AM EDT
[#50]
I specifically avoid shooting Winchester WhiteTrash ammo in my guns... It's generally crappy brass, and unusually inconsistent powder loads make me seek ammo elsewhere... All my handgun ammo is handloaded to ensure quality and (double checked during loading) consistent powder charges. I never keep my brass beyond 4-5 loadings anyway, so there's rarely ever a chance of a brass issue as well. I haven't gotten into loading rifle ammo...yet.  Edited to add: IATL, and I'm DAMN glad that you didn't get hurt in the Kaboom! |
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