Quoted: Quoted: Show me where in the catechisms of any of those religions you mentioned, it says anything like "birth control and sex outside the bounds of marriage are good things which we as [fill in religion here] highly encourage." You won't find it, because it is only a tenent of secularism. Show me where the article says she wasn't married and was screwing around outside of marriage.

Your reading comprehension is, at best, poor.

The "and" joins two mutually exclusive clauses. The "and" in this case is, for all practical purposes, equivalent to "or".

Also, show me where it says she has to follow your religion, or any religion for that matter.  I always thought this country had freedom of conscience;  you seem to feel it should be governed by religious law -- your religious law.

Everyone, I mean everyone, follows a religion. They may not call it that, but that's what it is. Whether it's called Catholicism, Judaism, or even atheism, everybody follows a religion. It is impossible to be alive and not have beliefs.

People like you follow cults of your own personalities.

I think my thread about Kerry and the involvement of faith in Gov't sums it up quite nicely.

Jonah Goldberg on Faith and Action

I still don't buy it.

A vendor has every right not to sell to whomever he pleases.

Again...Would a doctor HAVE to give an elective abortion to a patient who requests it?

Nope.      Nor does a pharmacist HAVE to fill a prescription

He just should have refused and told the girl to leave.

Beyond that, he is clearly in the wrong.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: He didn't push shit on anybody, and suggesting that he did is an indication of fuzzy thinking or outright loutishness. The guy declined to sell some merchandise. Period. He didn't force or require the woman to do anything, anymore than a gun shop owner who declines a sale because a potential customer doesn't seem quite right is forcing his beliefs on the disappointed buyer. bullshit! he also refused to transfer her prescription. So what? He has no obligation to do anything for anybody. He can close the window and go home when he gets ready, without offending anything but his contract with his employer. He had no duty to fill the prescription, no duty to transfer the prescription, no duty to give her directions to the skating rink, no duty at all, except to his employer.

Yes, his duty to his employer:

     AND HIS DUTY TO HIS EMPLOYER WAS TO FILL THE PRESCRIPTIONS.

That was his contract with his employer, serving the customers that came to the pharmacy.  As an employee you give up the right to not do your job, or you give up your job.  He could have quit rather than fill the prescription.  He could have handed it to another pharmacist to fill.  His refusal to do anything for her was him attempting to force his beliefs upon another person . . . a violation of her right to practice her religion.  How did the man know that she had been prescribed the pill for reason of contrception?  I know young ladies who get it prescribed for problems relating to menstruation, not with contraception.

So what actions/punishments/incentives would you use to coerce this pharmacist into providing service he is morally opposed to?

Why should he lose his license for failing to provide a prescription that has no health benefits, but does have contraindications?

Quoted: Why should he lose his license for failing to provide a prescription that has no health benefits, but does have contraindications?

Because it is his JOB. If he refuses to do what he has been trained and PAYED to do. If he knew that he could not perform this duty than he should have never gone ot school gotten an education and applied for the job.

Quoted: Why should he lose his license for failing to provide a prescription that has no health benefits, but does have contraindications?

You need to learn to read better:  he shouldn't lose his license for failing to fill the scrip, he should lose it for refusing to release to the girl HER PRESCRIPTION so that she can have it filled elsewhere.

Face it, the guy did the right thing, and all of you who choose to be slaves to your animal urges would crucify him.

I think he did exactly what Jesus would have done in the same situation.

Oh, and just because he refuses to fill harmful or immoral prescriptions does not make him unfit for the profession. It just makes you unfit to be his customer.

Quoted: The pharmacist in the article should never have become a retail pharmacist in the first place knowing he would have this problem. How he ever got past his internship is beyond me.

My thoughts, exactly.  And yes, I am a pharmacist.

Quoted: Wow. Some of you people would fit in quite well with the Taliban. Forced religion for all!  That's the way to stop sin!

Refusing to help someone commit a sin is in no league the same as going around and punishing for sins.

To suggest such makes you look very stupid.

Quoted: Face it, the guy did the right thing, and all of you who choose to be slaves to your animal urges would crucify him. I think he did exactly what Jesus would have done in the same situation. Oh, and just because he refuses to fill harmful or immoral prescriptions does not make him unfit for the profession. It just makes you unfit to be his customer.

And just how do you know what Jesus would have done, anyway?  

Give me a fucking break.  Moron.

Quoted: Face it, the guy did the right thing, and all of you who choose to be slaves to your animal urges would crucify him. I think he did exactly what Jesus would have done in the same situation. Oh, and just because he refuses to fill harmful or immoral prescriptions does not make him unfit for the profession. It just makes you unfit to be his customer.

Oh wait, your serious aren't you??

You are right, as a free individual he has no obligation to sell her anything.

And what should a free individual do if he cannot do a job properly and fulfill his contract with his employer (and the state, for giving him the license)?

QUIT!!!

That's the way it works!

It is wrong to take a job, get paid, and then violate your responsibilities. If you want to quit, sure; but you can't just agree to do something and then pick and chose which responsibilities to fulfill.

The pharmacist is an asshat.  If he can't fill it, why not release the prescription back to the patient and say, "sorry, do business elswhere please."  But he didn't even do that.  Forget the moral issue about birth control, he stole something.  Even if it wasn't an actual paper prescription and it was simply a request for a refill of medication on file, the "inaction" is a breaking of the law of the land because the pharmacist is legally obliged to dispense it.  No if's, and's, or but's about that.  

That said, the patient can still call her doctor and hive him/her call in the Rx to another pharmacy that same day.  The pharmacist was still in the wrong on legal grounds.  He's gonna lose his job and possibly career and the girl still got her pills.  Hahaha!      

TACTICALMAN

LEARN TO READ

HE REFUSED TO TRANSFER THE PRESCRIPTION

THIS IS THE CRUX



I guess  since the other argument , the religious freedom one, is all ya got and since we've already said he can do whatever the * he wants to wrt filling, you are pretty much trapped.

This is no different than the whiny liberal soccermoms who just repeat the same line over and ov er as a mantra even when we've moved on to a different point.

Quoted: He selectively refused to carry out his job.  If he couldn't do his job, he should have walked away.  The girl's DOCTOR is the one who decided what medicine to prescribe her - his job is to provide it, not make a judgemnt (medical OR moral) of whether she is entitled to get the medicine that a doctor proscribed. How woudl you like a Jehova's witness at the hospital blood bank, deciding that you cannot have a trnasfusion of blood for your surgery because it is against HIS personal beliefs.

+1

It was an invasion of her privacy for him to ask her why she needed the pills.  Her doctor prescribed them, that was all he needed to know.

Quoted: It was an invasion of her privacy for him to ask her why she needed the pills.  Her doctor prescribed them, that was all he needed to know.

+1

This all was in the job description. He knew that filling this prescription would be required especially since it is an extremely common prescription. THE PHARMACIST WAS IMMORAL for choosing that proession and agreeing to do that job when he knew full well that he was not willing to be professional, do his job, and fullfil his duties to his employer and the state. He knew it all before hand...

Quoted: Face it, the guy did the right thing, and all of you who choose to be slaves to your animal urges would crucify him.

You don't like fucking for pleasure, do you?

I think he did exactly what Jesus would have done in the same situation.

"Jesus the Pharmacist"... Brilliant. Sounds like something out of an old SNL or Monty Python skit.

Oh, and just because he refuses to fill harmful or immoral prescriptions does not make him unfit for the profession. It just makes you unfit to be his customer.

The guy is a self-righteous asshat. It's too bad he won't go to prison for his actions. The girl involved should have called the police and pressed theft charges... hopefully with the guy doing some jail time. Then he can preach about the sin of anal sex while he's getting plowed up the ass by some 275 lbs convict hung like a Missouri mule.

Quoted: Face it, the guy did the right thing, and all of you who choose to be slaves to your animal urges would crucify him. I think he did exactly what Jesus would have done in the same situation. Oh, and just because he refuses to fill harmful or immoral prescriptions does not make him unfit for the profession. It just makes you unfit to be his customer.

The original bitch with this guy was his unwillingness to allow an adult the right to make a decision concerning medical care, not his refusal to fill the Rx.

IT WAS HIS REFUSAL TO TRANSFER THE RX THAT MAKES HIM A "BAD GUY" IN THIS SITUATION.

Since it continues to circle around to that, however, let's look at this reply piece by piece, shall we? [glovesoff]

Face it, the guy did the right thing, and all of you who choose to be slaves to your animal urges would crucify him.

Ooooh. "Animal Urges".  Aren't you the mind Holy Spirit over matter sort? You're so big and butch and holy when you talk like that!

You can come off you pulpit High Horse now... Christianity isn't the only religion or spirtual belief system that teaches self denial and controlling the "animal" body, sorry. The Hindus, the Sikhs, Islam and Buddhism do as well. I don't think that they have the same helping of self aggrandizement that you seem to have been issued concerning it, however.

"Crucify him"....and you a Christian. Oh, is that a pun?

I think he did exactly what Jesus would have done in the same situation.

I thought Jesus was known for his humility, not his holier-than-though attitude. It's part of the whole irony of the crucifixtion... Wouldn't He have attempted to teach her, instead of simply preaching toat  her and abandoning her, as this Asshat apparently did?

Oh, and just because he refuses to fill harmful or immoral prescriptions does not make him unfit for the profession. It just makes you unfit to be his customer.

"Harmful or immoral"? WTF? Are you a Pharm? An MD? Then how the F do you know?

ALL MEDICINES HAVE SOME OCCURENCE OF SIDE ("untoward") EFFECTS. IF WE WERE TO STOP SELLING ALL MEDICINES WITH SIDE EFFECTS, WE WOULD HAVE NO MEDICINE.

See the above response to quote about humility. If this guy believes this strongly in the Scriptures, then he should have attended seminary, not pharmacy school.

As for the "immoral" prescription part? Please see *below.

OK - despite the fact that you have identified a predominantly Catholic tenet as being a universal Christian one (the ban on contraception, not abortion), let me pose these to you -

Maybe she had the scrip because she was afraid of getting impregnated by a rapist, and her priest told her that birth control was a lesser sin than abortion, and she didn't want to have to think of herself as a baby killer one day? How does Pharmacist Pious the First answer that one? Where's the direct hotline to GOD on that one?

* Here's another analogy - kind of lengthy, follow if you can: (ref "immoral" Rx's)

You start suffering from an Acute Myocardial Infarction (a "heart attack"), and start feeling crushing substernal chest pains, with radiation down the left arm.  You're sweating, tachycardic, and feel like you're going to die. Your wife calls 911.

My partner and I arrive at the house in our ambulance, and begin to hook you up to my heart monitor... but you say:

Don't do that - GOD wouldn't want that...

You're a Christian Scientist. It's you're right to determine you health care for you or your children. We say OK, and stop.

So, we begin to set up for an IV. As we start to stick you, you say:

Don't do that - GOD wouldn't want that...

So on and so forth, until your filled-with-godly-goodness heart finally bursts (figuratively) from the joy of knowing Christ, the son of  GOD, worker of miracles, light of the world, as your personal Savior (TM) and decoder ring buddy. (sarcasm intentional, no general slam intended)

We start to shock your heart back into a viable (life perpetuating) rythym, but your wife says:

Don't do that - GOD wouldn't want that...

We start to give you drugs that will restore your pulse, and probably save your life, but  your wife says:

Don't do that - GOD wouldn't want that...

We start to place an ET tube, so we can ventilate you with 100% oxygen on the way to the hospital, but your wife says:

Don't do that - GOD wouldn't want that...

So we do CPR all the way to the hospital, where you're pronounced dead mortally dead, but now sitting at the right hand of the Father for your devout and selfless service! (sarcasm intentional, no general slam intended)

Now imagine this:

You're a Christian Scientist,  taking over as Project Medical Directory for my ambulance. (kind of difficult, since PMD's are usually trauma and cardiac certified MD's, but work with me here)

Now EVERYBODY has to live by your Christian Science religious beliefs.

So it's not just you and yours, but me and mine. All of the citizens in my town, and the visotrs passing through.

Want an aspirin for your headache?

Don't do that - GOD wouldn't want that...

Want us to save your father/mother/brother, using our skills, tools, drugs, and a severe amount of divine intervention? (I may not believe in the "usual" God, but I know we don't work alone)

Don't do that - GOD wouldn't want that...

So, here we are in Christian Scientist ambulance land - where we don't use our defibs, drugs, or skills - we just hold your hand, pray and sing "Jesus loves me" all the way to the hospital...


I have the same issue with late term ("partial birth") abortion bans. No, I do not believe in abortion as a primary birth control agent, but banning a legitimate medical procedure on testimony from a few individuals who found ways around the regulations in place is the same as relying on the testimony of crack dealing street hoodlums who used Tec-9's committing crimes to ban law abiding shooters "assault weapons".

I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH YOUR PERSONAL "TRUTHS" AND "FACTS" FROM  YOUR GOD BEING IMPOSED ON ME AND MY FAMILY'S  HEALTHCARE.

IF ABORTION AND CONTRACEPTION ARE SINS, (as you allege/state as accepted universal belief)

AND WE ARE ALL LIVING IN THE UNIVERSE OF THE CHRISTIAN  GOD (depending on your point of view/belief/"knowledge")

AND WE HAVE TO ANSWER FOR OUR OWN SINS, ('cause nobody else will do it for us)

THEN WON'T WE ALL HAVE TO ANSWER FOR THEM STANDING IN FRONT OF "THE (BIG) MAN ( GOD) ON OUR OWN? (as it says we will have to in the Bible?)

[/glovesoff] Just so we're clear -

You are completely entitled to your own beliefs.

I don't think that you (TacticalMan) or FLAL1A are deserving of the borderline personal attacks (calling you "ASSHOLE", etc.) against you for defending opinions that you have the right to express.

I have nothing but the highest regard for Christians that actually follow the teachings of Christ. I have been priveleged to know several. I would rather stand with some of the Christians on this board than the CHINOS (Christians In Name Only) that I grew up and attented church with.

But I have a great difficulty with people who force their religion on my, my body, and my family and friends through political or social means, however well intentioned.

It reminds me of the Liberals who believe that they know how we should be ruled....

There are other groups in the world that are seeking to prevent "sin" and "acts against God" by legislation, forced religious adherence and denial of services to believers and non believers alike:
They're the members of Al Quaeda , and the Taliban.

Quoted: They're the members of Al Quaeda , and the Taliban.

The Pharmacist is Al Quaeda!!!  

It actually makes sense.  Al Quaeda = Muslim = Women are traditionaly 2nd class citizens.  If the girl's father got the prescription filled, I'm sure everything would be peachy.  


This political incorrect joke brought to you by me.  I will now return to my regulary scheduled programming.

Quoted: She's a sinner.  He should have stoned her to death right there in the pharmacy.

I belong to a certain cult I think more people would be happy if they joined. Don't be scared of cults, Let me tell you about it.
I follow the teachings of this guy I know, let me describe him to you.

He has long hair, Does'nt have a job, Allways gets hassled by "the man" and Religious fanatics and hates rich people. He hangs out with low lives and hookers. I even saw him save a hooker once from some Fundamentalists who wanted to kill her. One time we was walking down the street and saw a bigmouth show off with a bullhorn Shuting how he loved God. We both laughed at him and said "You like to make a big show of it don't you?", "Do us all a favor and go  into a closet to pray you're giving us all a headache!" Now this is one of the coolest things he ever did, We were at my cousins wedding at it went on till like 3:00 AM When we ran out of Beers When low and behold he came in from the drive way Holding two kegs one on each shoulder! My cus thought for sure those kegs were empty! But sometimes I worry, He has  quite erratic behavior. One time I saw him get the shit kicked out of him and he did'nt even fight back. But another time I saw him attack some guy just for selling "religious Items" outside a church. Go figure? So anyhew me and my friends follow him around here and there, he's just too cool for school. Problem Is I'd like to tell you his name but I can't. Why? Unfortunately He on the run from the Cops right now, Some Bullshit trumped charge. But I'd bet dollars to doughnuts he's hiding out with that hooker.
So in future if you or the cops ask me if I know him the answer is NO! .....NO! ......NO!
But word on the street is if he turns himself in now they will go easy on him.

On a more serious note...

What if it was a:

Vegetarian waitress who decided you shouldnt have any meat with your meal.

Overly religious librararian who thought you shouldnt read anything but the bible.

Anti-gun register clerk at Walmart who thought you shouldnt be able to buy ammo.

Tree Hugger who refused to sell you 2x4's at Home Depot.

Environmentalist gas station employee who refused to sell you gas.

A Democrat fireman who didnt think your house was worthy of being saved because you posted a Bush/Cheney sign in your yard.

A paramedic who happens to be a Cleveland Browns fan who refused to pull your unconscious wife from her burning car because he didnt like the Pittsbugh Steelers decal in the rear window.

An anti-war teacher who refused to teach YOUR child because she doesnt think a child should not have a G.I Joe lunchbox.

I could go on and on, but I think I have made my point.

The world would be a really shitty place if everyone was allowed to refuse service to anyone on the sole basis of their personal beliefs. If this pharmacist doesnt like selling birth control pills he should find another line of work.

-Nugz

I think this female should have called her doctor before she called the cops. Was the guy wrong by not sending her script, yes. Could she have called her physician/clinic and had the script faxed, yes.

Also, I would like to see the "real" facts in the case. I know patients have walked in my office demanding records right now. My office doesn't evolve around just one patient. I can't stop everything that I am doing and have my office make copies of records. I tell patients that I need at least 48 hours. This guy "may" have said he couldn't sent the script at that very moment and maybe at a later time (24 to 48 hours). I don't have to much faith in the media to present a fair and balanced view of religion or the Church. As a Catholic, I can pray for somebody to make a change in their life but I wouldn't "force" my views, if that's what happened. I have been taught to pray for everybody, especially the sinners.

BTW, I wouldn't want a Jewish butcher telling my that I can't have some carnita meat because pork isn't kosher

thanks,
Ron

Quoted: BTW, I wouldn't want a Jewish butcher telling my that I can't have some carnita meat because pork isn't kosher

Point is right on...

There are kosher butchers... but the sign out front says so... and luckily we don't need a prescriptioin for bacon (yet)

I'm a pharmacist, worked for Wal-Mart for a year and I've been a hospital pharmacist ever since (16 years total).  Here is my opinion:

The pharmacist had a two-fold responsibility in this situation.  First, he could not fill a prescription that he had an ethical objection to filling.  Second, he had a duty to his patient to help her get her prescription filled, either by another pharmacist at KMart later in the day or by transferring it to another pharmacy of the patient's choice.

All pharmacists, no matter who their employer happens to be, have a professional obligation and right to refuse to fill any prescription that they feel may harm a patient.  In this case, the pharmacist may have believed that spiritual or moral harm could have occurred to the woman if he filled her BCPs.

Personally, I think that he was being a pompous, obnoxious religious zealot and he should lose his job and license for refusing to provide an alternate method for this woman to get her prescription filled.

Catholicism has been damaged so much by pedophile priests and the associated coverups and corruption that Catholics sure don't need this asshats help.  

Oh man, I sure loves the Anti-Catholicism on this board. All these stupid fucking "Christians" (read: protestant heretical sects) and the general mix of atheist bastards, and the odd "Catholic" who doesnt obey the opoe, doesn't go to weekly mass, who doesnt go to regular confession, who would sell OUTLAWED contraceptives to someone else. The Pope says no contraceptives, and that means none for anyone else, since you would be helping them go about doing something that your religion is against. In matters of theology and cathecism the Pope is by the investure of his Holy officce INFALLIBLE. So what he says you do. He is after all Jesus's vicar on earth. So suckold the big oen if you dotn like it but dont call yourself a Catholic, you bastard! And before you go on a rant with your panties up in a bunch, don't give me that "Catholics want to take over the world" shit and all that fucking "Hitler's Pope" shit. Pope Pius X was just as good a pope as any. He saved hundreds of thousands of Jews. Sorry that he couldn't save them all (but damn did he try hard). What did you do? Nothing. So STFU, scum. Furthermore, the Crusades were perfectly justified. The popes in those times had every right and reason to call for a defense of the Holy Land and later on during the great Turkish threat, for a defense of Europe itself. What some crusaders did during the crusades DOES not transfer responsibility in any way to the Catholic Church and the general Catholic body.

Last but not least, the Catholic definition of sexual intercourse is sex between a man and a woman, in marriage, where every opportuity is given for natural conception. THEREFORE: NO FUCKING CONTRACEPTIVES. AND NO FUCKING SEX OUTSIDE OF A MARRIAGE. If you dont like it, then STFU. You dont have to be a Catholic and why do you care what we believe? Can't you just live your shitty life and let us be with ours? Why are Catholics oh-so despised. Fucking atheists and protestants think they are better than Catholics... Insanity...