THIS IS SCARY!! ATF ARRESTS MAN ON MACHINEGUN CHARGE BECAUSE OF SLAM-FIRE - Page 3

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - THIS IS SCARY!! ATF ARRESTS MAN ON MACHINEGUN CHARGE BECAUSE OF SLAM-FIRE (Page 3 of 3)

Posted: 8/20/2005 4:12:03 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Quoted:
ATF been busy in the Charlotte area.

First Classic Arms, now Johnny Moses.

what happened to classic arms?

Check out the Homtown Forum for NC / SC.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=34&t=203472

Actually it was Assualt Technologies (which I thought was related to Classic Arms...maybe not??)

Posted: 8/20/2005 5:42:54 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
[

In this case, "following the hammer home" was illegal and considered a machinegun by the BATF. Otherwise, why did they try to procesecute Moses and they won't return the gun?

The "disconnecter" can be removed from almost any semi-auto firearm, which would cause the hammer to follow the bolt home on a live round. That would constitute "a readily convertible machinegun" for nearly every semi-auto on the market. I would bet I could take 50% of the semi-autos on the market, remove the disconnecter and try a few dozen times and get a few doubles. This would mean nearly every semi-auto on the market is an illegal machinegun, subject to confiscation and prosecution.

This typically wont make a semi auto go full auto, if the hammer is riding the bolt the hammer doesn't get a chance to whack the firing pin and thus strike the primer. In essense the hammer is part of the bolt.
Look at how the M16 works and the auto sear. The auto sear waits until the bolt is closed then releases the hammer allowing it to whack the firing pin.

Posted: 8/20/2005 6:06:34 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Quoted:
How did the ATF know about it in the first place?

My question exactly.

Probably someone like many of the good citizens here who think FA shouldn't be civilian-legal.

Posted: 8/20/2005 6:09:45 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How did the ATF know about it in the first place?

My question exactly.

Probably someone like many of the good citizens here who think FA shouldn't be civilian-legal.

yep, rats

Posted: 8/20/2005 6:41:04 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
The auto sear waits until the bolt is closed then releases the hammer allowing it to whack the firing pin.

Is that a technical term?

Posted: 8/20/2005 6:47:16 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
So are slam fire conversions legal now? Where is that pesky disconnector...

This has to rate as the most fucking idiotic post I have ever seen here.

Congrats.

If you need Hooked on Phonics to help your reading skills I'll be happy to Paypal you the money.

Posted: 8/20/2005 6:49:41 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So are slam fire conversions legal now? Where is that pesky disconnector...
No, the POINT is that the slamfire was because of a BROKEN part...

Who is responsible for maintaining the weapon? Did wear and tear "break" the part? Or did the owner break the part so it would slam fire.

The point is if your weapon is doubling or slam firing you need to fix the damn thing. If you knowingly keep it in a condition where it slamfires or doubles it's the same damn thing as modifying it to slam fire or double.

I once had some doubling issues with an aftemarket trigger. I didnt think "cool, I have a burst fire AR now" and throw it in the safe. I fixed it so it worked properly.

Where is the proof the owner thought it was cool or are you reading into things to support your JBT buddies?

Don't worry, we all know the answer.

Posted: 8/20/2005 6:50:18 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Quoted:
So are slam fire conversions legal now? Where is that pesky disconnector...

This has to rate as the most fucking idiotic post I have ever seen here.

Congrats.

If you need Hooked on Phonics to help your reading skills I'll be happy to Paypal you the money.

It's not reading skills he needs help with, it's those lawyerly "creating conclusions" skills he should dump.

Posted: 8/20/2005 6:51:24 AM EDT

[#9]

OMFG that made the hair on my neck stand up!

Posted: 8/20/2005 7:52:34 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Why does this organization even exist?
Why doesn't Bush put someone in charge who is pro-2nd amendment?

Because Bush doesn't give a damn. He would have reauthorized the assault rifle ban had it crossed his desk. The Bush moonies have kept saying over and over again that actually it was just politics, and, silly op_rod, don't you know that he wouldn't have done any such thing? Well, having watched him do exactly that in Austin, over and over again, yes, I know that he would have signed the damned bill. And then he would have gone on vacation. And then he would have lied about it.

He is still not as bad as Clinton, but it is getting to be a horse race.

op_[top tax bracket and not looking forward to a 65% marginal rate thanks to Bush spending like a pimp with a week to live]_rod

Posted: 8/20/2005 8:07:53 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So are slam fire conversions legal now? Where is that pesky disconnector...
No, the POINT is that the slamfire was because of a BROKEN part...

Who is responsible for maintaining the weapon? Did wear and tear "break" the part? Or did the owner break the part so it would slam fire.

The point is if your weapon is doubling or slam firing you need to fix the damn thing. If you knowingly keep it in a condition where it slamfires or doubles it's the same damn thing as modifying it to slam fire or double.

I once had some doubling issues with an aftemarket trigger. I didnt think "cool, I have a burst fire AR now" and throw it in the safe. I fixed it so it worked properly.

Where is the proof the owner thought it was cool or are you reading into things to support your JBT buddies?

Don't worry, we all know the answer.

As I understand it (and I may be wrong) it's only of legitimate interest to the authorities if the FA fire results from deliberate design, manufacture, redesign or remanufacture - NOT if it's a malfunction the owner happens to enjoy. IOW, if your .22 semi- Winchester rifle is doubling due to fouling in the action, there's no crime.

Posted: 8/20/2005 8:23:52 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How did the ATF know about it in the first place?

My question exactly.

Probably someone like many of the good citizens here who think FA shouldn't be civilian-legal.

yep, rats

Toady Bailey.

Posted: 8/21/2005 5:12:27 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
As I understand it (and I may be wrong) it's only of legitimate interest to the authorities if the FA fire results from deliberate design, manufacture, redesign or remanufacture - NOT if it's a malfunction the owner happens to enjoy. IOW, if your .22 semi- Winchester rifle is doubling due to fouling in the action, there's no crime.

Which would require the LEO to check the guns internals. This LEO did not. Yet, AR15fan still defends him.

That's nothing but blind allegiance to the thin blue line.

It's really shameful.

Posted: 8/21/2005 5:51:37 AM EDT

[#14]

I wonder how many times a year this really happens, and the ATF gets away with it

Posted: 8/21/2005 7:22:59 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Quoted:
[

In this case, "following the hammer home" was illegal and considered a machinegun by the BATF. Otherwise, why did they try to procesecute Moses and they won't return the gun?

The "disconnecter" can be removed from almost any semi-auto firearm, which would cause the hammer to follow the bolt home on a live round. That would constitute "a readily convertible machinegun" for nearly every semi-auto on the market. I would bet I could take 50% of the semi-autos on the market, remove the disconnecter and try a few dozen times and get a few doubles. This would mean nearly every semi-auto on the market is an illegal machinegun, subject to confiscation and prosecution.

This typically wont make a semi auto go full auto, if the hammer is riding the bolt the hammer doesn't get a chance to whack the firing pin and thus strike the primer. In essense the hammer is part of the bolt.
Look at how the M16 works and the auto sear. The auto sear waits until the bolt is closed then releases the hammer allowing it to whack the firing pin.

That's the whole point of this discussion and what the ATF tried to do. The ATF Agent tried several different brands of ammo on a FAL that had a full-auto selector in a semi-auto gun (allows hammer to follow bolt home when set to "auto"). The combination of the hammer following the bolt home and ammo with soft primers, allowed a very occational double fire, which the Agent tried to prove was a machingun.

Posted: 8/21/2005 7:33:31 AM EDT

[#16]

Heheheh. Silly BATFE. Tricks are for dicks.

Posted: 8/21/2005 9:04:15 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Quoted:
As I understand it (and I may be wrong) it's only of legitimate interest to the authorities if the FA fire results from deliberate design, manufacture, redesign or remanufacture - NOT if it's a malfunction the owner happens to enjoy. IOW, if your .22 semi- Winchester rifle is doubling due to fouling in the action, there's no crime.

Which would require the LEO to check the guns internals. This LEO did not. Yet, AR15fan still defends him.

That's nothing but blind allegiance to the thin blue line.

It's really shameful.

+1 - Should have been going after criminals

- not entrapping normal citizens with trickery. Some people are confused on who the bad guys are - it sure as fuck is not ordinary citizens minding there own goddamn business.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - THIS IS SCARY!! ATF ARRESTS MAN ON MACHINEGUN CHARGE BECAUSE OF SLAM-FIRE (Page 3 of 3)

General » General Discussion

Warning

Confirm Action

About AR15.COM

Stay Connected

Newsletter

Contact Us