There's no such thing as a fireproof safe... ***PICS*** (56k beware) ***UPDATE PAGE 5*** - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - There's no such thing as a fireproof safe... ***PICS*** (56k beware) ***UPDATE PAGE 5*** (Page 2 of 4)

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:51:18 AM EDT

[#1]

You need to add "graphic" to your title. For fuck's sake man, I just ate.!.

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:52:06 AM EDT

[#2]

Someone will try to sell those guns on auctionarms or gunbroker, in "very good" condition and the picture will be fuzzy.

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:52:59 AM EDT

[#3]

They just need a refinish. I've seen worse.

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:57:03 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If those were Glocks they'd still be fine.

Nah. They would have detonated and taken out the whole block.

i'm still laughing...

you guys mean to tell me this guy didnt have a halon or FM-200 system?

www.fireline.com/fc_supression.html

I guess you do?? lets see some pics

was trying to be funny. nothing i own would justify the cost.

Posted: 3/8/2007 9:05:09 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If those were Glocks they'd still be fine.

Nah. They would have detonated and taken out the whole block.

i'm still laughing...
you guys mean to tell me this guy didnt have a halon or FM-200 system?
www.fireline.com/fc_supression.html

Because Halon has been mostly banned for the children?

Posted: 3/8/2007 9:05:20 AM EDT

[#6]

Who cares about the firearms...he survived!
Housefires can take off a hell of a lot faster than
most people think. If the occupant is a packrat
or stores flammables, its so much worse.

Posted: 3/8/2007 9:05:27 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:

If the safe isn't in a decorative area of the house, how would it be to stand a 100-gallon water tank on top of the safe, so that at some point in the fire the tank would melt and douse the safe with water?

Total cost = <$100.

But it won't work. Take a styrofoam cup, fill it up with water and set it on the grill. Because the water will never get above 212 the styrofoam will never melt and the cup of water will just boil off. Try it, it makes a mess and the fumes are bad but it's worth it.

-JTP

Rolling eyes or not, he's technically correct.
I've thrown a plastic bottle of water into a raging camp fire.
The plastic gets hot, but tranfers the heat to the water.
The water boils and begins to evaporate.
Until a good amount of water is gone, the plastic water bottle stays intact.
Seen it, done it, proved it.

Posted: 3/8/2007 9:09:35 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:

If the safe isn't in a decorative area of the house, how would it be to stand a 100-gallon water tank on top of the safe, so that at some point in the fire the tank would melt and douse the safe with water?

Total cost = <$100.

But it won't work. Take a styrofoam cup, fill it up with water and set it on the grill. Because the water will never get above 212 the styrofoam will never melt and the cup of water will just boil off. Try it, it makes a mess and the fumes are bad but it's worth it.

-JTP

Not accurate. You'r talking about an open cup, instead of a closed poly container. Not a meaningful comparison or negative proof.

Water sucks up a lot of heat and would keep the vessel cool for some time.

A heat activated valve would work.

I have some antique fire extinguishers. They are basically lightbulb-thin glass containers full of carbon tetrachloride with a small hammer held back with a wax trigger. Heat melts wax,hammer fires, busts container, dousing fire with carbon tetracholoride, thus extinguishing the fire, yet releasing chlorine gas. Wonder why they dont make them anymore?

Posted: 3/8/2007 9:09:44 AM EDT

[#9]

why aren't sprinkler system standard stuff in home and apartment buildings ?

Posted: 3/8/2007 9:09:49 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

I never really thought of that. I like to think that my safe wont have to endure what it is rated for since I live in an suburban area with good fire response times. I hope.

I live in a pretty big suburb with a great fire department. An apartment building in my complex burned down a couple weeks ago. The entire fire department (seemed like it) showed up within 5 minutes and were working on the fire immedately. The fire burned way hotter than 1400 degrees (I could feel the heat 50 yards away). The entire building burned. The same evening, the FD brought in a couple of small cranes and tore down the parts of the structure that didn't collapse. They soaked EVERYTHING to make sure that the fire wouldn't spark back up. They left a heap of water soaked rubble that has been undisturbed so far.

Insurance is the only way to protect your guns. If you get a good fire going then the safe is going to get roasted and will probably wind up at the bottom of a pile of water logged rubble.

Posted: 3/8/2007 9:11:15 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Who cares about the firearms...he survived!

Exactly.

I woke up in the middle of one. Got the guns and computer out before the place was gutted, tho.

Posted: 3/8/2007 9:15:27 AM EDT

[#12]

hey ill take anything you dont want to keep I have spare stocks for the mossberg and the 10/22

Posted: 3/8/2007 9:15:43 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
why aren't sprinkler system standard stuff in home and apartment buildings ?

Because people wouldn't tolerate having their personal possessions and home ruined as often as industrial/warehouse systems malfunction. Accidentally hit one head and you're screwed.

ETA: Not to mention the maintenance costs for these systems. I've had guys in weekly doing repairs, required upgrades and preventive maintenance. Not cheap.

Posted: 3/8/2007 9:35:04 AM EDT

[#14]

Is there something that could be added to the interior of the safe to reflect the heat back out?

Posted: 3/8/2007 9:37:18 AM EDT

[#15]

I have a buddy who tiled his safe except the door.

Duno how well that would work in a fire.

Posted: 3/8/2007 9:44:08 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The safes are rated for temp and time.
The first thing you're supposed to do is ensure that your safe is hosed down as soon as possible. Otherwise, the heat of the safe itself will cook your guns. Perhaps his safe sat awhile after the fire?

If the safe isn't in a decorative area of the house, how would it be to stand a 100-gallon water tank on top of the safe, so that at some point in the fire the tank would melt and douse the safe with water?

Total cost = <$100.

Lots of problems with this one.

100 gallons of water weighs about 833lbs. Combined with the sfae and it weighs a LOT. Some houses could support that weight without some modifications.

And it's not uncommon to find intact fish tanks full of dead fish when doing overhaul. The water heats up but the tank does not melt or break due to the cooling effect of the water. Of course everything does eventually burn or melt but it has to get really hot for an extended amount of time.

Installing a single sprinkler head over your safe is a fairly easy project. Tie into the domestic water supply, get a head or two and viola! Homemade fire protection system. Not to code but way better than nothing.

Posted: 3/8/2007 9:46:11 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:

If the safe isn't in a decorative area of the house, how would it be to stand a 100-gallon water tank on top of the safe, so that at some point in the fire the tank would melt and douse the safe with water?

Total cost = <$100.

But it won't work. Take a styrofoam cup, fill it up with water and set it on the grill. Because the water will never get above 212 the styrofoam will never melt and the cup of water will just boil off. Try it, it makes a mess and the fumes are bad but it's worth it.

-JTP

Hey Duke, try it before you roll yer eyes.

Posted: 3/8/2007 9:50:44 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
why aren't sprinkler system standard stuff in home and apartment buildings ?

They are in lots of new construction. Can't force someone to retrofit, cost prohibitive, but very effective.

An do it yourself install is cheap but NOT legal (to code). But it can't hurt (except for the water damage potential).

Posted: 3/8/2007 9:51:33 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
I have a buddy who tiled his safe except the door.

Duno how well that would work in a fire.

Sounds like a kiln. Probably evenly distribute the heat for complete destruction from buttstock to muzzle!

eta on second thought, because the heat is an outside source it just might help.

Posted: 3/8/2007 9:52:41 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Does anyone know of a good company that insures firearms ?

You just have to have a rider on your home owner’s insurance policy for the amount you want to protect. It works for jewelry as well as firearms.

The NRA provides $1k worth of insurance free with your membership. You can also buy additional coverage (and you do NOT need to provide serial #s or anything like that).

Most homeowners policies have limits on the $ of guns and accessories that they will cover. If you get a rider to cover more they MAY ask for additional info like a list of your guns. The NRA insurance is a good (and non-intrusive) way of insuring your guns. It is what I use (about $9k of additional insurance for me costs about $150/yr).

Posted: 3/8/2007 9:54:07 AM EDT

[#21]

Where in the house the safe is located can reduce the potential of the safe's contents being destroyed. Adjacent an outside wall, away from the "core" of the house will reduce the amount of time (& heat) that the safe is exposed to.

Posted: 3/8/2007 9:56:39 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Where in the house the safe is located can reduce the potential of the safe's contents being destroyed. Adjacent an outside wall, away from the "core" of the house will reduce the amount of time (& heat) that the safe is exposed to.

True but an exterior wall COULD be a source of moisture too. Gotta' keep the goldenrod fired up!

Posted: 3/8/2007 10:02:06 AM EDT

[#23]

Posted: 3/8/2007 10:09:50 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
If those were Glocks they'd still be fine.

I thought that big glob on the end of the shotgun was a Glock!

Posted: 3/8/2007 10:42:24 AM EDT

[#25]

Is that the new Kali-approved stock? (didnt realize that was on tall pic

)

A guy I know has this huge tank full of water over his safe that will melt slowly and let the water pour onto his safe to cool it. The water goes into a drain in the floor and is pumped back to the "sprinkler system" he built, provided he doesnt lose power. (he has the wires run underground to the room in RMC so if the box or service entrance doenst go he should be fine)

Thats why most of my guns are in a seperate room the is entirely made of thick cement and "encased" by earth. The only thing combustable in the room in the THHN wires in the EMT

Posted: 3/8/2007 10:46:25 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The safes are rated for temp and time.
The first thing you're supposed to do is ensure that your safe is hosed down as soon as possible. Otherwise, the heat of the safe itself will cook your guns. Perhaps his safe sat awhile after the fire?

If the safe isn't in a decorative area of the house, how would it be to stand a 100-gallon water tank on top of the safe, so that at some point in the fire the tank would melt and douse the safe with water?

Total cost = <$100.

Lots of problems with this one.

100 gallons of water weighs about 833lbs. Combined with the sfae and it weighs a LOT. Some houses could support that weight without some modifications.

And it's not uncommon to find intact fish tanks full of dead fish when doing overhaul. The water heats up but the tank does not melt or break due to the cooling effect of the water. Of course everything does eventually burn or melt but it has to get really hot for an extended amount of time.

Installing a single sprinkler head over your safe is a fairly easy project. Tie into the domestic water supply, get a head or two and viola! Homemade fire protection system. Not to code but way better than nothing.

I think this would work well, and like was said, it would be cheap and easy. IMO, it would be smart to put a shut off valve on it, in a place that was easy to get to, and away from the head. Any FF can tell you, plugging a sprinkler head while water is flowing, isn't easy. I would put the shutoff near the closest sink or shower, close to where you added your water line.
The valve wouldn't help while you were away, but it would if you were home and the head accidently popped. It would be alot faster than going outside, and shutting off the meter.

Unless you have irreplaceble firearms, insurance is still the best thing. I had mine bumped up to 10k after our home was broken into. I found out the hard way I only had $2500 worth of ins. for firearms. My front door, ended up being an expensive sum bitch to replace when it was all said and done. Those contractors aren't cheap.

Posted: 3/8/2007 10:47:21 AM EDT

[#27]

Instead of a sprinkler, if you have an unfinished area place the safe under a soldered joint in the water line. When the solder melts... sprinkler. I have seen it a couple of times. Not necessarily practicle.

Posted: 3/8/2007 10:53:10 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

I have a Stack-On Elite and it sits in the basement under my kitchen. Had a plumber install a commercial sprinkler head over the thing for $100 bucks. That should give the safe and my storage room a better chance standing up to a fire. I also keep 1 gallon jugs on top of the safe.

For anyone who thinks they're getting in I keep quite a bit of blackpowder and smokless in the bottom of the safe, in a tray. Any spark will turn the safe into a 1,000lb grenade.

So you installed a sprinkler over your safe, but then turn around and store blackpowder and smokeless for the explicit purpose of turning it into a bomb for anyone trying to break into the safe? You don't think that could present a problem during a fire?

Also, might want to check into your local laws concerning mantraps.....

Posted: 3/8/2007 11:14:10 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
If those were Glocks they'd still ~~be fine~~ on fire.

Fixed it for ya!

Posted: 3/8/2007 11:53:37 AM EDT

[#30]

Looks like some sanding and some oil you could get those into enough shape to make them work (albeit HIGHLY dangerous to shoot). Give the stocks a quick clean up , paint the metal with a coat of rustoleum and wait for the next gun buyback and get $50-$100+ a piece for them. (That would be based on the last DC guy buyback)

Posted: 3/8/2007 11:54:59 AM EDT

[#31]

<---heads out back to see if he still has that warped ATV spray tank for an experiment........

Posted: 3/8/2007 11:56:24 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
<---heads out back to see if he still has that warped ATV spray tank for an experiment........

A job for Old Painless ......

Posted: 3/8/2007 12:42:05 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
<---heads out back to see if he still has that warped ATV spray tank for an experiment........

A job for Old Painless ......

*sigh*

I can't find the tank.

Maybe I'll set a fire under a few bottles of water and see what happens.....

Posted: 3/8/2007 12:47:15 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
<---heads out back to see if he still has that warped ATV spray tank for an experiment........

A job for Old Painless ......

*sigh*

I can't find the tank.

Maybe I'll set a fire under a few bottles of water and see what happens.....

Leave the tops off so the water can boil and escape.
An exploding water bottle will ruin the experiment.

Posted: 3/8/2007 12:55:11 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The question is..... would it have been any different with other safes?

I have though about extra layers of sheetrock around the outside. I know that wouldn't be practical for the door, but it might add a little extra protection.

One thing I thought about was storing a couple large water cooler jugs on top the safe. In a fire, they would bust and cool off the safe and suppress the surrounding fire.

Believe it or not , I thought of just running a sprinkler system over mine , It's really not that expensive to do.

Does anyone know of a good company that insures firearms ?

The NRA has an excellent insurance program. Not very expensive either.

IBTNRAB - In before the NRA bashers

Posted: 3/8/2007 12:56:21 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

An exploding water bottle will ruin the experiment.

Not if it puts the fire out.......

I'll try it both ways.

Posted: 3/8/2007 12:58:01 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:

An exploding water bottle will ruin the experiment.

Not if it puts the fire out.......

I'll try it both ways.

Then leave the top on.
If you leave the top off, the water will absorb the heat and boil off.
The jug won't melt/burn until it's nearly empty.

Posted: 3/8/2007 1:15:26 PM EDT

[#38]

Planning on sending them in to the manufacturers to see if they'll honor warrantee repairs?

Posted: 3/8/2007 1:16:18 PM EDT

[#39]

This is why I store all of my guns in a sealed steel 55-gallon drum at the bottom of my pool.

Posted: 3/8/2007 4:13:25 PM EDT

[#40]

I think placement is a big part of it. My safe sits against a brick outer wall, on a concrete floor, with sheetrock on the other three walls. It would most likely be the last area in my house to actually burn, and would not be nearly the hottest area in a major fire. Also, a 30 minute safe is pretty marginal. I would not go with anything under 45 minutes, preferably a 1 hour rated safe.

Posted: 3/8/2007 4:27:06 PM EDT

[#41]

"General Services
Fire Sprinkler System
Meet Your Personal Firefighter

The City of Scottsdale is widely recognized as a leader in built-in automatic sprinkler systems. In 1985, the City passed an ordinance requiring every commercial and multi-family building to be outfitted with a complete fire sprinkler system. The ordinance also requires that single-family residences, built after Jan. 1, 1986, be fully outfitted with an approved fire sprinkler system. Sprinkler systems are also required in major remodeling projects. These systems have been credited with saving a number of lives locally and across the nation."

more:
http://www.scottsdaleaz.gov/safety/Fire/residentialsprinkler.asp

Posted: 3/8/2007 4:29:32 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Originally Posted By moproclean

Save them for a city/state funded guy buyback day when they offer you $80 bucks a gun.

Hey... now THERE'S a good idea.

Posted: 3/8/2007 4:31:45 PM EDT

[#43]

Looks like some good future projects their. Those will be fun to at least mess aroun with and see what happens. You really can't mess them up any more.

Posted: 3/8/2007 4:33:46 PM EDT

[#44]

Ah that'll buff right out

Posted: 3/8/2007 4:40:02 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
A sprinkler system works well but then you have water damage to deal with. Most/all safes are not waterproof.

I don't know about the rest of you all, but I will take a wet gun over a well toasted gun!

Quoted:
You need to add "graphic" to your title. For fuck's sake man, I just ate.!.

+1 the horror

Posted: 3/8/2007 4:51:11 PM EDT

[#46]

I have my firearms insured through Nationwide at replacement value for $1.20 per $100. It covers all the of optics and accessories.

Posted: 3/8/2007 4:55:39 PM EDT

[#47]

Make sure you post pics after you're done restoring them!

Posted: 3/8/2007 5:01:06 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
why aren't sprinkler system standard stuff in home and apartment buildings ?

now... this is an interesting question.... i build homes. the are lots of folks out there trying to get states to inact all kinds of 'for-the-children' home building codes. and whole house sprinkler systems just barely got defeated recenty... now do you want that system with its heads all over your house? it goes off by mistake you're gonna have some expensive damage, not to mention the cost it adds to the home itself.. they also wanted a ladder attached to every window over 1 story so the children could climb down from any room at any time if there was a fire...

Posted: 3/8/2007 5:06:14 PM EDT

[#49]

The horror...the horror...

Posted: 3/8/2007 5:16:36 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:

Quoted:
why aren't sprinkler system standard stuff in home and apartment buildings ?

now... this is an interesting question.... i build homes. the are lots of folks out there trying to get states to inact all kinds of 'for-the-children' home building codes. and whole house sprinkler systems just barely got defeated recenty... now do you want that system with its heads all over your house? it goes off by mistake you're gonna have some expensive damage, not to mention the cost it adds to the home itself.. they also wanted a ladder attached to every window over 1 story so the children could climb down from any room at any time if there was a fire...

Just from where I'm sitting I can see three sprinkler heads in my house. I live on base and it's mandatory. There hasn't been a problem with the sprinklers in years, from my understanding. Considering a family moves into one of these units on average every 3 years and they've been here for 12 years that's pretty damn good.

As the Damage Control Assistant on a DDG, I had the same set up in the seven berthings. My XO wouldn't let me run the system charged, as it was designed- the new XO did. We had 300 people living in those 7 berthings at any given time and we had no "bulb" breakages.

Now if you're the type who is constantly breaking overhead fixtures then they're not for you.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - There's no such thing as a fireproof safe... ***PICS*** (56k beware) ***UPDATE PAGE 5*** (Page 2 of 4)

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