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Posted: 4/11/2006 4:48:52 PM EDT
[#1]
I'm not sure I understand what they hell they were thinking...... |
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Posted: 4/11/2006 5:28:18 PM EDT
[#2]
Might be good if priced around ar-varients. Otherwise, they can keep it, I don't need/want to learn another weapon system that shoots the same round, and pay more to do it.
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Posted: 4/11/2006 5:53:31 PM EDT
[#3]
They were thinking they'd take an already legendary design and make it more modular and versatile. They didn't expect that gun owners would prefer a gun that was pretty enough to show off to their girlfriend. |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 8:59:43 AM EDT
[#4]
bump for more first-hand experience on F2000/FS2000
CMMG has had a demo unit for months, but they've been awfully quiet about it. From the photos in the FN catalog, the FS2000 and F2000 are THICK, much thicker than an M4/AR/M16. The OAL is shorter than the M4, but its a tad heavier. Does anyone know how to do mag changes on the F2000? Is it that black button on the bottom? Does the mag drop-free? Where's the bolt catch, is it part of the charging handle? |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 9:06:18 AM EDT
[#5]
Probably gonna be a great gun, but I say fuck no to the price.
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Posted: 5/9/2006 9:07:26 AM EDT
[#6]
I say the same thing about everything in HK's product line, its a euro thing I guess. |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 9:12:17 AM EDT
[#7]
It might well be a decent weapon, but at 2,200 bucks, they can keep it.
It won't do anything my 600 dollar Bushmaster won't do. |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 9:16:14 AM EDT
[#8]
Variety and wide selection in the gun market is a good thing.
If I was a millionaire, I'd buy one of everything, just to have them. |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 9:29:28 AM EDT
[#9]
Coolness factor = 9.5 Bulk = 4 Practicallity = 3 Price = 0 
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Posted: 5/9/2006 9:43:13 AM EDT
[#10]
definatly getting one, AR's are boring i need to feed my addiction, and the price aint that bad, only thing i don't like is no last round hold open, but that is only a minor thing to me. i'll prolly get 2 aso i don't have to share with the wife, she loves the Aug's.
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Posted: 5/9/2006 9:49:37 AM EDT
[#11]
 Talk is cheap, post a picture of the jammed ejection port. And because it's a bat-gun, and made by a company that is actually trying to service our segment of the firearms market (armchair commandos) i'll be bucking up and putting cash down on one of these babies. Was thinking about a LW piston upper... but nah, I want a "bat-gun!" |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 9:56:15 AM EDT
[#12]
I like it.
ITs not as bulky as it looks. Shoulders real easy too. I like it, but I won't get one due to the price. |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 9:58:51 AM EDT
[#13]
In the F2000 videos that are floating around, you can clearly see a delay in the spent cases ejecting after firing. I'd imagine it is POSSIBLE for some cases to get stuck in the chute, causing a backup. This might be a slim possibility though. |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 10:02:33 AM EDT
[#14]
I sent an email to ImpactGuns about the FS2000's absurd pricetag.
Go HERE to contact them. I think it's important for them to know how many people are being alienated by the price. |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 10:04:02 AM EDT
[#15]
Doesn't interest me at all. The only way I'd consider buying one is if it dropped into the cheaper than an AR range.
eta: oh yeah, and it's a gawdawful bullpup too. |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 10:13:53 AM EDT
[#16]
I didn't read most of the responses. But heres my input: 1) At shot 06 is was a really neat rifle to mess with. 2) Most importantly, at some point at time, someone is going to tell you that you can't have one. IMHO, get it while the getting is good. 3) Support FN, one of the few companies willing to sell US what Hk and the rest will not. Besides, I already own 11 AR's, why wouldn't I get something new. -G |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 10:15:46 AM EDT
[#17]
if the price gets to the $1300-$1500 range i'll buy one in a second to support FN, but at $2200, you are only a few bucks away from a decent condition, used M11/9 MG... |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 10:35:06 AM EDT
[#18]
M17 unreliable? How so? The piston? Bolt? If you want to complain about the stock trigger, or how weird it is to change mags, that's one thing, but to complain about it being unreliable...I'ld like to know why you think that. |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 10:40:28 AM EDT
[#19]
I'ld imagine then it sounds like you have no proof of this slim possibility then, eh? 
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Posted: 5/9/2006 12:00:19 PM EDT
[#20]
Watch the F2000 video that has been floating around. Notice the delay on the cases that are ejecting. It might take 5-10 shots for some cases to come out. If you stuck an old sock into that chute (unlikely) you're going to eventually run into a malfunction. The white plastic thing that sends the spent cases down the chute only sends the cases by a slingshot method. It may not be strong enough of a force to overcome all obstructions. It is a simple matter of physics. |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 12:09:47 PM EDT
[#21]
I'd buy it for the novelty, but not at that price...
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Posted: 5/9/2006 12:18:06 PM EDT
[#22]
It'd be great if FN would sell their civilian weapons at about the same price as the military/full-auto versions.
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Posted: 5/9/2006 12:25:24 PM EDT
[#23]
If I could own one here in the UK I'd literally pay 10 000 dollars for one. The same for a pistol, heck I'd pay 10 000 dollars for one pistol in the UK (not kidding). You'd be surpised what you'd be willing to pay for something once you can't own it anymore...
 the longer I live in the UK the more I know there will never again be the option for shooters to own pistols. This is why you people in the USA must fight for the RKBA as once it's gone there is NO turning back... |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 12:27:21 PM EDT
[#24]
It looks really cool and I could see myself using one, but is it worth it over a M4? hmm...
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Posted: 5/9/2006 12:37:16 PM EDT
[#25]
Fuck you and your BS flag. I was at the local range, and a Class III dealer had one for rental. It was a machine gun. It jammed several times, with two different shooters, because spent cases stuck in the forward ejection port. There were about 15 people there watching at the time when it happened. Sorry I didn't snap a picture just to prove it to the likes of you. Get a fucking clue--just because you want to waste $2,000 on it because it looks cool doesn't make it a better gun. |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 12:49:24 PM EDT
[#26]
This guy has an incredibly good point here. But I doubt FN would still be in business if their very expensive guns jammed everytime you shot them. |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 4:45:31 PM EDT
[#27]
Why do you think so few agencies/countries have adopted the F2000 compared to the M4/M16, AK, or FAL? |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 5:03:25 PM EDT
[#28]
 15 eh? Jammed eh? No proof, no other people saying it happens. And yet the fact he didn't accept your word as gospel pisses you off. 
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Posted: 5/9/2006 5:04:32 PM EDT
[#29]
No.
ETA: No on a PS90 aswell. Both are answers looking for a non-existant problem. |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 5:06:37 PM EDT
[#30]
Because the AR and FAL have had what.........40 years to be adopted? How long has the F2000 been out? 5 years? What is with all the hate of this gun? I could understand if it was being sold and they were bad, but this is just opinion. There is a literal hate of a gun that for most practical purposes doesn't even exist yet. |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 5:11:40 PM EDT
[#31]
Maybe you should have bought only 10 AR's and spent the savings on a clue as to what has kept HK from bringing us weapons. IE, the US Government. |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 5:13:06 PM EDT
[#32]
Are you saying it was Full Auto? FN says it's semi only. Or were they not firing the FS2000? www.fnhusa.com/contents/cb_fs2000.htm "FS2000 SEMI-AUTO CARBINE The FN FS2000 is a compact, reliable and accurate semi-auto only carbine with a 17.4" civilian-legal barrel and is suitable for security, personal defense or competition." |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 5:14:23 PM EDT
[#33]
Pass
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Posted: 5/9/2006 5:17:14 PM EDT
[#34]
Glocks were widely used within a few years of its introduction in the early 80s. The F2000 has been out for about 5 years and so far not many in the professional field has taken any interest in it, the same goes for the P90 and 5.7x28. FWIW these issues rub me the wrong way with the FS2000: 1). Rear iron sight is just a flip-up sight, adjustable for windage only. It's not a problem for those who are going to mount HSLD optics right away, but I am an iron sight person. I do not like such rinky dink iron sights. 2). It does not have a drop-free mag design. There are "dust gaskets" that have to be removed in order to make it drop-free. 3). 1/9 twist rifling... granted, my AR-15s all have 1/9 twist rifling, but its going to disappoint many people since they can buy/build M4s that have 1/7 twist barrels for almost 1/3 the price of a FS2000. 4). They could have at least used a 18" or 20" barrel on the FS2000 and get some nice muzzle velocity in a carbine package. Instead, it's got a barrel that is only about an inch longer than a 16" M4, in a package that is wider and heavier than a 16" M4, but only a few inches shorter. If they used a 20" barrel, it would be about the same OAL as a 16" M4 with the stock fully collapsed, except you'd get some NICE bullet muzzle velocities with the 20" barrel. |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 5:26:25 PM EDT
[#35]
You really need to ask that? 40 to nearly 60 yrs of production, marketing, use and modifications separate those designs from the newer FN. Back when the M16 was new, the same question could have been asked of it at time when it had little competition. |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 5:35:15 PM EDT
[#36]
That's about the same price range I'd be willing to purchase one if things go bad in 2008, if not then $900-$1200 is my price range. |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 5:39:29 PM EDT
[#37]
The more things change the more they...don't. |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 5:54:31 PM EDT
[#38]
I think it's a cool rifle. The price tag puts me off too, but I spent an assload on an HK SL8/G36 clone.
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Posted: 5/9/2006 5:57:58 PM EDT
[#39]
Glock is and was a CHEAP gun. Injection molded plastic, simple parts. Don't get me wrong I love my Glocks, but they are not HK, AR, etc quality. 20k of the P90 in USE throughout the world from your mouth. IMHO that is a lot for what the weapon is for. It is not a daily carry sidearm for a cop, and it isn't a battle rifle. It is a "PDW". As the USSS uses the P90 I have to think it is at least marginaly reliable. 
It is what it is. If you don't like the basic design or price that is one thing - but that doesn't mean the gun is a POS. |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 7:38:06 PM EDT
[#40]
 owned! |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 8:05:27 PM EDT
[#41]
Everyone is well aware of why HK is not selling to us. But to not even sell the hk416 upper? Let alone, not even bringing in sporterized versions anymore? Nothing has prevented them from building a US factory. So perhaps you should purchase a clue yourself. In addition: STG77, pull your head out. |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 10:09:04 PM EDT
[#42]
Everyone except you, apparently.
ATF barrel ban ring a bell?
The SL8 and USC were discontinued because of poor sales. I guess if HK doesn't import sporterized rifles anymore because they don't sell well, that means they hate US gunowners. 
Wrong, lack of a major US Government contract that stipulates building a US factory has prevented them from doing so. Building a US factory for strictly civilian sales which could be made totally useless at the stroke of a pen would be a questionable business decision at best. Do you think FN would have a US factory without their huge US Government contracts to build the M240, M249, and M16A2/A4? If you do, you're a moron. Do you hate Beretta because they don't sell SC70/90s in the US even though they have a US factory? Since they own Franchi, they could build SPAS-15s here too, right?
Nah, I like it where it is. |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 10:52:01 PM EDT
[#43]
Well I would love to buy one. I bet they will work just fine. maybe a few will have a few problems here and there but I bet you will be able to have anyproblem that comes up fixed muy pronto. Now as to if I can buy one well there is the catch I already have 3 223 rifles 2 ARs and a Pre ban Hk-93. I already have mags for a 4th bulgarian sam-5 which was cheap until I wanted one and found a pile of mags for it. Problem is I just have a hard time spending that much cash on something that wont fill a "need" in my collection. I guess I could sell the Hk to afford it but the Hk is cool too. I really wish that Sig would have given us a proper 550 instead of that abortion 556. Now I would drop 2 k on one of those in a heartbeat.
later Jim |
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Posted: 5/9/2006 11:53:32 PM EDT
[#44]
What it really boils down to, you can continue to suckle on HK's cock for all eternity. That's your choice. I was merely suggesting to dsg2003gt that supporting FN is good, because they support us. I would have said the same thing about SIG or RRA or Bushy or _fill in name of company that brings new items to market__. Finally, and this gets my goat the most, at no point in time have I said that hate HK, which you inferred with the Beretta analogy. HK makes quality and inovative arms, no one can deny that. However, their lack of support to the civilian market leaves much to be desired. Now before this turns into the next 40 page HK sucks thread, the discussion should probably turn back to FN and their new offering. |
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Posted: 5/10/2006 1:03:05 AM EDT
[#45]
Besides the USSS, what other major .GOV/.MIL agencies have adopted the P90 PDW? 20k in the world isn't a whole lot. The P90 has had 10+ years and so far, only a meager 20k in the world... Do you see major adoption of the P90 and 5.7x28 in 20 years from now? The US military is already pushing for bigger bullets that hit harder at longer ranges (Mk 262,6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel, .308, .300 WM). The P90 isn't going to replace the M9/M11 anytime soon due to cost and size. REMFs would most likely get a MP5, M4, or whatever can be scrounged up (still cheaper than a P90). I'm calling it like I see it, FN could have just tweaked the FS2000 a tad to make it really good out of the box, especially at $2200. |
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Posted: 5/10/2006 1:17:35 AM EDT
[#46]
I do NOT trust that ejection system. |
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Posted: 5/10/2006 1:22:39 AM EDT
[#47]
I don't understand the people saying that the FS2000 is "a solution looking for a problem" but looks cool, but think the Sig 556 is "one ugly POS" but can't accept that it's very practical and form/function fitting.
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Posted: 5/10/2006 4:36:50 AM EDT
[#48]
The USSS is enough to verify its reliability in my opinion. No, I don't see major adoption of the P90 or the F2000, or the G36, or the FN scar, etc. Nor going back to the .308, or up to a .300WM. No rifle is ever going to be as universally used as the AR15 (or AK), but that doesn't mean that it is the best at everything or anything. The AR is popular because it shoots a round that is not to powerful, not to weak, because it is reasonably reliable - but not to the point it costs a lot, because it is reasonably accurate, etc. The AR is the "minivan" of the gun world. It does a little bit of everything at a low cost so it has a lot of appeal. It is not the most reliable, compact, powerful, accurate, etc, rifle available. But it is a little of everything. The P90 is very specific. The .300WM is very specific. There are a lot of guns and calibers that do their job better than anything else available - but are not the best choice for an overall issue weapon. |
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Posted: 5/10/2006 4:43:42 AM EDT
[#49]
The USSS wanted a black reticle sight on the P90, and they got it (P90 USG). USSS can't use the white reticle because it blends in with white buildings in DC. The regular P90 and PS90s have the regular MC-10-80. When I first complained about the regular MC-10-80 on my PS90, I was told by the Five seven Nazi moderators to "STFU" because "FN knows best after they conducted years of research, blah blah blah". 4 months later, everyone is scrambling to buy rail upgrades to replace the MC-10-80 with an EOTech or ACOG or whatever.
You're correct: The P90 fits a specific purpose: to shoot squirrels with soft body armor. I am not sure where the F2000 fits in... not many units are interested in a non-modular rifle that is bulkier, heavier, and thicker than a carbine while not having much of a muzzle velocity advantage over a carbine. The fact that the SCAR and many other current "assault rifles" can switch to different calibers will allow more flexibility in combat. You will start to see more and more units going with .308 due to its tried and true performance and longer range terminal ballistics, coupled with a high level of modularity if the FN ARM/SCAR or similar rifles are adopted by units. |
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Posted: 5/10/2006 8:34:18 AM EDT
[#50]
No really and too, your lying.the spent cartrages stack up loosly in the ejection tube, if the gun is tilted foward, the cases will just spill out. the gun will still eject even if fired verticaly once the round is inserted in to the tube it can't fall back in to the action. it has been extencivly tested with various obstructions and has been able to eject through all of it. |
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