Quoted: No really    and too, your lying. the spent cartrages stack up loosly in the ejection tube, if the gun is tilted foward, the cases will just spill out. the gun will still eject even if fired verticaly once the round is inserted in to the tube it can't fall back in to the action. it has been extencivly tested with various obstructions and has been able to eject through all of it.

Can you show any proof?

...

14.5" M4 (USGI) (specs from FM3-22.9)
weight when empty: 6.49 lb
weight w/ 30rd mag: 7.5 lb
OAL w/ closed stock: 29.75"

FS2000 w/ 17.4" barrel:
weight when empty: 7.6 lb
weight w/ 30rd mag: ~8.6 lb
OAL: 29.1"

For comparison:
M16A2 w/ 30rd mag weighs 8.79 lb

So what we have w/ the FS2000 is carbine performance (rifled length of barrel is about 16") in a carbine package (OAL is the same as a 14.5" M4 w/ the stock collapsed), with the weight and bulk of a rifle. If I wanted a heavy carbine, I'd get a 16" heavy-barreled "M4".

Here's what FN could have done so that the FS2000 makes sense. The bullpup design was intended to give rifle performance in a carbine package. Instead of a 17" barrel, go with 18" or 20" rifled length. That would add about 1-3" to the OAL, putting it at around 31"-33" OAL like a 16" M4 w/ the stock collapsed, or a 14.5" M4 with the stock fully extended. The added weight and overall length isn't that big of a deal when compared to a 40" M16.

With this, you would get RIFLE performance (20" rifled length, 1/7 twist) in a carbine package. The Steyr AUG is a few inches shorter than the F2000/FS2000, so the AUG still has an advantage over the FS2000 either way.

Quoted: I love, love, love, love, love FN for finally doing what few European arms companies will do and provide good firearms for the US market... but no way am I paying $2500 for that. I will, in all likelyhood, buy a PS90, but I'll stick with my AR for now in terms of a full-size rifle/carbine.

FN's doing it becuase they can't sell 'em to military and police -- they just don't sell.  Samo-samo for teh uber-cool 5.7mm POS's.  Even with "happy switches", almost NOBODY wants the new FN products, but American shooters will happliy pay FN for their R&D costs, just to get a neutered semi-only version.

Quoted: Quoted: I love, love, love, love, love FN for finally doing what few European arms companies will do and provide good firearms for the US market... but no way am I paying $2500 for that. I will, in all likelyhood, buy a PS90, but I'll stick with my AR for now in terms of a full-size rifle/carbine. FN's doing it becuase they can't sell 'em to military and police -- they just don't sell.  Samo-samo for teh uber-cool 5.7mm POS's.  Even with "happy switches", almost NOBODY wants the new FN products, but American shooters will happliy pay FN for their R&D costs, just to get a neutered semi-only version.

I am seeing the same thing. FN's selling the PS90 and FS2000 to civilians because there's not a high demand by professionals. I wouldn't hold my breathe for a sporter FN SCAR to ever hit the US market if/when SOCOM officially adopts it as the sole SCAR rifle.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I love, love, love, love, love FN for finally doing what few European arms companies will do and provide good firearms for the US market... but no way am I paying $2500 for that. I will, in all likelyhood, buy a PS90, but I'll stick with my AR for now in terms of a full-size rifle/carbine. FN's doing it becuase they can't sell 'em to military and police -- they just don't sell.  Samo-samo for teh uber-cool 5.7mm POS's.  Even with "happy switches", almost NOBODY wants the new FN products, but American shooters will happliy pay FN for their R&D costs, just to get a neutered semi-only version. I am seeing the same thing. FN's selling the PS90 and FS2000 to civilians because there's not a high demand by professionals. I wouldn't hold my breathe for a sporter FN SCAR to ever hit the US market if/when SOCOM officially adopts it as the sole SCAR rifle.

Isn't the reason FN is shipping the PS90s with the crappy factory sight because they have a bunch of them in inventory that they need to unload?

Quoted: Quoted: if you want a 5.56 bullpup, what are your other options?  AUGs are expensive and rare, M17s are unreliable and rare, and there are very few L85s or FAMAS rifles in the US.  are there any other 5.56 bullpups out there? Actually, with the way the FS2000 price has gone up, you can buy a USR for not much more money. Sure, it has a butt-hole stock, but so does the FS2000.

As I understand it, you should be able to replace the butt-hole stock on a USR with a real AUG stock now that the ban has sunset.  I may, however, be mistaken.  
Matt

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: if you want a 5.56 bullpup, what are your other options?  AUGs are expensive and rare, M17s are unreliable and rare, and there are very few L85s or FAMAS rifles in the US.  are there any other 5.56 bullpups out there? Actually, with the way the FS2000 price has gone up, you can buy a USR for not much more money. Sure, it has a butt-hole stock, but so does the FS2000. As I understand it, you should be able to replace the butt-hole stock on a USR with a real AUG stock now that the ban has sunset.  I may, however, be mistaken.   Matt

That is technically not legal, but commonly done anyway.

Just chiming in here.

1 lb heavier isn't a big deal.  I have an 20" AUG, and it makes a big difference that the center of gravity is further back.  Makes any non-bullpup feel muzzleheavy.  With semi-auto the light forend and muzzlerise isn't a problem.  That and take your M4 with a railed forend and BUIS and you gotta be too damn close weight-wise to tell.

Who the hell shoots their M4 with the stock collapsed?  
The size IS a big advantage.  The 17.4" barrel IS a big advantage.  Ammo oracles says an 14.5" M4 only fragments with M855 out to 45-50 meters, but a 17.4" barrel ought to safely double that to 100.
And a lot of guys seem to want to shoot even heavier bullets...  No 1/7 twist?  Pshaw!!!  

I'd love to own one, but the price tag is too steep.  I can see this being more expensive than an AR, but with all of the plastic it shouldn't be that much more.

Quoted: Just chiming in here. 1 lb heavier isn't a big deal.  I have an 20" AUG, and it makes a big difference that the center of gravity is further back.  Makes any non-bullpup feel muzzleheavy.  With semi-auto the light forend and muzzlerise isn't a problem.  That and take your M4 with a railed forend and BUIS and you gotta be too damn close weight-wise to tell. Who the hell shoots their M4 with the stock collapsed?   The size IS a big advantage.  The 17.4" barrel IS a big advantage.  Ammo oracles says an 14.5" M4 only fragments with M855 out to 45-50 meters, but a 17.4" barrel ought to safely double that to 100. And a lot of guys seem to want to shoot even heavier bullets...  No 1/7 twist?  Pshaw!!!   I'd love to own one, but the price tag is too steep.  I can see this being more expensive than an AR, but with all of the plastic it shouldn't be that much more.

The FS2000 will not have a 20" barrel, it will have a 17.4" barrel that has LESS than 17.4" rifled length. I estimate roughly 1"-2" is from the permanently pinned flash suppressor, so you're looking at less than 16" rifled length. Compare the muzzle velocities between a 14.5" barrel and a 16" barrel... it's almost negligible. The PS90 has a 16.1" barrel but only 14.8" of it has rifling, the rest is the permanently pinned flash suppressor. So overall, we're looking at a $2500 FS2000 that has comparable muzzle velocities to the current M4s, but with the weight and bulkiness of a M16A2, with an overall length comparable to the 14.5" M4 with the stock fully collapsed. I do not see anything innovative about this concept other than it is a bullpup with a funky ejection system.

My 7 lb 16" M4 does not have any tacticool accessories, just CAR handguards and a DCH. I shoot my M4 with the 4-position stock FULLY collapsed. Why? Because it fits me perfectly and I can get a nice and tight nose-to-charging handle cheek weld. I hate the A2 stocks and other fixed stocks because they're too long. I loved the collapsible stock so much that I installed a M4 stock on my 24" HBAR and guess what? I shoot it with the stock fully collapsed as well. I don't wear body armor and I'm not fat, I just prefer shooting the AR w/ the stock fully collapsed, and I have tried all the different settings only to go back to the fully collapsed mode. However, I am digressing from the main topic at hand.

The FS2000 has a 1/9 twist barrel, so that is going to piss of a lot of the professional users who may want to use Mk 262 Mod 1. At this time and age, FN Herstal should have just used 1/7 to satisfy everyone.

My 16" M4 weighs 7 lb empty and the rifle balances very well (the bulk of the weight is towards the rear). If you think that is bad, try my 24" HBAR, where the bulk of the weight is forward of your pistol grip (muzzle heavy).

I wouldn't mind buying a FS2000 if it was $1400-$1500, but with the current price markups and its capabilities compared to the current M4, I seriously doubt large government/LE agencies will scramble to buy them considering most of them are now switching to M4s.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I love, love, love, love, love FN for finally doing what few European arms companies will do and provide good firearms for the US market... but no way am I paying $2500 for that. I will, in all likelyhood, buy a PS90, but I'll stick with my AR for now in terms of a full-size rifle/carbine. FN's doing it becuase they can't sell 'em to military and police -- they just don't sell.  Samo-samo for teh uber-cool 5.7mm POS's.  Even with "happy switches", almost NOBODY wants the new FN products, but American shooters will happliy pay FN for their R&D costs, just to get a neutered semi-only version. I am seeing the same thing. FN's selling the PS90 and FS2000 to civilians because there's not a high demand by professionals. I wouldn't hold my breathe for a sporter FN SCAR to ever hit the US market if/when SOCOM officially adopts it as the sole SCAR rifle. Isn't the reason FN is shipping the PS90s with the crappy factory sight because they have a bunch of them in inventory that they need to unload?

It appears that way. The early factory sights were pitiful, and were probably the oldest ones in their inventory. The sights on the factory black PS90 sights are supposed to be much better, and now CMMG is selling the $650 "Secret Service" black-reticle sights... the only thing is, the Secret Service and any other professional unit that adopted the P90 is using the USG rail or P90 TR, with an Aimpoint, EOTech, or other aftermarket CQB optic. None of the serious users rely on the craptastic MC-10-80 reflex junk.

Hell, even my MC-10-80 was crap at the RANGE under controlled conditions. Luckily I had the sun over my head and it shined light into the night-time fiber optic collector (used for the tritium module) and got a really bright half-cross reticle. The "donut of death" was barely visible due to the stupid design/location of the forward fiber optic collector. Just FYI, the "donut of death" is supposed to be the daytime reticle, and the half-cross is the nighttime reticle.

The PS90's great as a range toy, but I can see why professionals are steering away from the P90 (or "no longer purchasing new P90s") and switching to SBR M4s or M4s.

If it was in 6.5 grendal I'd -think- about buying this rifle...  

I saw one of these yesterday at the gun store when I bought a SU-16C.  Didn't know what it was, now I do.

Quoted: I saw one of these yesterday at the gun store when I bought a SU-16C.  Didn't know what it was, now I do.

Was it a demo unit or was it for sale?

M4 Stock fully collapsed when used with IBA.

-G