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Seems like this is what's going on with the whole fuss over the use of the phrase Christ is King:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua2xjV5aWwE

ETA: summary

Candace used the phrase to ben shaprio. ETA2: Apparently this is involved with candace and ben disagreeing over the conduct of the war in israel.

Klavan indicated that he thinks she was using it as a way to "own" ben or otherwise as a cudgel and said (in the video I linked in a couple of post in this thread) words that amount to him beliving she was connating antisemitism, even though the words she used weren't themselves antisemitic.

Yeah, it's that kind of a peeing contest. I have no idea if she was actually using the language klavan referred to in an anti jewish way or not.

Enter streisand effect and the phrase "Christ is king" winds up trending and starts getting used in multiple different ways.

Christians who are just agreeing with what the words mean; and otherwise having more or less informed takes on what's going on otherwise.

Screwed up people using the phrase to "own the jews" etc (including at least a couple of people who say they are muslims).

And everyone else looking at the blowup and going ... HUH?

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The founding fathers were christians but not fundamentalist

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Oh boy. "You're", as in YOU are. YOU, OP; what if YOU are wrong what if the Jews are right? What if it's the way the Muslims see it? What if it's what the Hindus believe?

You really don't know, do you? You got to believe your belief and let others believe theirs. It ain't worth fussing about.

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The founding fathers were christians but not fundamentalist

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People who actually believe in hell and that it is us getting what we deserve and know ourselves unable to have even begun to earn the forgiveness we were given aren't flippant about that stuff.

Believers of a thing will act acording to their beliefs.

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Andrew Keven is a Jew turned Christian.

He said out load he prays for Ben Shapiros conversion to Jesus Christ. Said it on a recent podcast.

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Wall o text
Your butthurt because someone chose French Vanilla Christianity with sprinkles instead of S Georgia Cookie Dough flavored Christianity?
I bet you get real cringe when you see Jesus depicted as someone is from that region instead of......lighter tones.

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Look, I am far from a perfect Christian. Far from a good one, even. I suck. I wont contest anyone here who will point out my failings in life. I know my opinions, and my words are probably worth less than you paid for it.
But I have to say, that what Andrew Klavan recently said... outs him as a heretic and potentially a traitor to his own faith.

On a recent show, Andrew Klavan... proclaimed that Ben Shapiro doesn't have to embrace Christ. That to embrace Christ, would alienate his family, cause him financial hardship, and hurt his political reach.
That Ben Shapiro... essentially, gets a pass... and can deny Christ and still go to heaven... because it would be too costly for him to accept Christ.



Firstly, that is a massive slap in the face of *EVERY* Christian Martyr who has paid the ultimate price... for proclaiming Christ. It is a slap in the face of every Christian who was murdered by people like Saul of Tarsus (Before he himself converted to Christianity) because they followed Christ. So all of these Martyrs... were expected to *DIE* proclaiming Christ... but Ben Shapiro gets a pass because he's rich and has a family?! The bible directly, and PRECISELY addresses this very issue!

The bible is... not at all... in the least bit... unclear as to what is expected of Christians. That "Oh, my life will get hard if I proclaim Christ!" is not a valid excuse.
JESUS HIMSELF SAID THIS.

Andrew Klavan, is calling JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF A LIAR. He is directly contradicting the words of CHRIST HIMSELF:

"For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it."
-Matthew 16:25"

Look, I bet Andrew Klavan probably has me beat in a lot of ways. He may be a better man than I am in a lot of ways. Probably has a far greater hold on his passions, emotions, and anger. I have anger issues. I admit it. I have a lot of issues that Andrew Klavan does not. I may be a dirty, filthy, rotten sinner.... but what Andrew said, is 100% heresy.

Andrew Klavan, if he is a Christian or at least has read the bible... If he has read the bible even ONE TENTH as much as I have... and I am *NO BIBLE SCHOLAR*. I don't read the bible *ANYWHERE NEAR AS MUCH AS I SHOULD*. But I know damn well, that what he said is heresy. What Andrew Klavan said, is the complete polar opposite of Matthew 16:25.

Call it anti-semitic if you want. Yes... if Jews want to enter the Kingdom of Heaven... they must proclaim the name of Christ as their Lord and Savior... same as everyone else.
If it is "Anti-semitic" to say that... well its also Anti-Hindu. Its also Anti-Atheist. Its also Anti-Pagan. Its also anti-Gnostic. Its also Anti-Sikh.
To be a Christian, is to believe in the basic tenets of Christianity... to believe what the bible says..... to believe the words imprinted within.

Andrew Klavan is continuing a heretical trend within Christianity, where out of cowardice... out of fear of being portrayed as Anti-Semites... Christians make an exemption for Jews from what the bible clearly states. There is nowhere in the bible, that justifies this carve out. I have even seen prominent Evangelical preachers, whom I suspect care more about their coffers than the truth... that Christians need to stop trying to convert Jews.... that Christians need to recognize that Jews are "Already saved" and "dont need Christ".

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
- John 14:6

I dont see a carve out for Jews. I don't see a carve out for Israel. I don't see a carve out for anyone.

If believing Christ's own words...  makes a Christian an anti-semite... so be it. Believe what you want to believe about us. But this is the truth of what Christianity is all about. There are no exemptions.
I am a *HORRIBLE* Christian, and even *I* know this. Andrew Klavan must know it.

Tomorrow, Christians will be observing Good Friday. The day that Christ himself, took nails into his own hands... and feet... to die for a piece of shit like me. All we are asked, is to not shy away when we are asked what we believe. Andrew Klavan failed. I hope he failed due to an honest misunderstanding... and not because he put mammon before God.... or fear of persecution... or fear of alienation from friends and family.... or fear from harsh criticism and canceling.

I hope, for his own soul... that this is due to some weird, misguided, twisted interpretation that he somehow accidentally wrapped himself up in. But I doubt it. He doesn't come across as stupid.
My honest belief, is that he simply was saying what he felt he had to say... to be accepted.... to not be the next one on the chopping block at the Daily Caller.

I get that some will bring up Candace Owens and claim she's no Christian either. *MAYBE*.

MAYBE she's saying all the right things, for all the wrong reasons. MAYBE she is a charlatan. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised. She does have a shady history. I do hope she's sincere in her proclamations for Christ... but I have my doubts because of that aforementioned history. But the bible even tells us, that even if a Charlatan is telling the truth... for their own gain and not for the furtherance of the Kingdom... that we should still rejoice because still yet the truth of Christ is being proclaimed. Perhaps, if we pray for her... if she is a charlatan... maybe someday her own proclamations will actually start to enter her own heart and become sincere. "Fake it till you make it" kinda thing.

Regardless, this issue goes way beyond Candace Owens.

Again ... I truly hope, that Andrew Klavan recognizes the errors of what he is teaching... the absolute dishonor he has placed upon the martyrs... and the contradiction of Christ's own words. I truly hope, that he said this out of sincere, yet mistaken, belief... and that his belief can be corrected through discipleship and loving correction from fellow Christians. Because the only alternative... is willful heresy... and willful false teaching. The bible, does not have anything good to say about people who willfully and knowingly teach falsehoods.

I've said my piece.

Quoted:
Look, I am far from a perfect Christian. Far from a good one, even. I suck. I wont contest anyone here who will point out my failings in life. I know my opinions, and my words are probably worth less than you paid for it.
But I have to say, that what Andrew Klavan recently said... outs him as a heretic and potentially a traitor to his own faith.

On a recent show, Andrew Klavan... proclaimed that Ben Shapiro doesn't have to embrace Christ. That to embrace Christ, would alienate his family, cause him financial hardship, and hurt his political reach.
That Ben Shapiro... essentially, gets a pass... and can deny Christ and still go to heaven... because it would be too costly for him to accept Christ.



Firstly, that is a massive slap in the face of *EVERY* Christian Martyr who has paid the ultimate price... for proclaiming Christ. It is a slap in the face of every Christian who was murdered by people like Saul of Tarsus (Before he himself converted to Christianity) because they followed Christ. So all of these Martyrs... were expected to *DIE* proclaiming Christ... but Ben Shapiro gets a pass because he's rich and has a family?! The bible directly, and PRECISELY addresses this very issue!

The bible is... not at all... in the least bit... unclear as to what is expected of Christians. That "Oh, my life will get hard if I proclaim Christ!" is not a valid excuse.
JESUS HIMSELF SAID THIS.

Andrew Klavan, is calling JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF A LIAR. He is directly contradicting the words of CHRIST HIMSELF:

"For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it."
-Matthew 16:25"

Look, I bet Andrew Klavan probably has me beat in a lot of ways. He may be a better man than I am in a lot of ways. Probably has a far greater hold on his passions, emotions, and anger. I have anger issues. I admit it. I have a lot of issues that Andrew Klavan does not. I may be a dirty, filthy, rotten sinner.... but what Andrew said, is 100% heresy.

Andrew Klavan, if he is a Christian or at least has read the bible... If he has read the bible even ONE TENTH as much as I have... and I am *NO BIBLE SCHOLAR*. I don't read the bible *ANYWHERE NEAR AS MUCH AS I SHOULD*. But I know damn well, that what he said is heresy. What Andrew Klavan said, is the complete polar opposite of Matthew 16:25.

Call it anti-semitic if you want. Yes... if Jews want to enter the Kingdom of Heaven... they must proclaim the name of Christ as their Lord and Savior... same as everyone else.
If it is "Anti-semitic" to say that... well its also Anti-Hindu. Its also Anti-Atheist. Its also Anti-Pagan. Its also anti-Gnostic. Its also Anti-Sikh.
To be a Christian, is to believe in the basic tenets of Christianity... to believe what the bible says..... to believe the words imprinted within.

Andrew Klavan is continuing a heretical trend within Christianity, where out of cowardice... out of fear of being portrayed as Anti-Semites... Christians make an exemption for Jews from what the bible clearly states. There is nowhere in the bible, that justifies this carve out. I have even seen prominent Evangelical preachers, whom I suspect care more about their coffers than the truth... that Christians need to stop trying to convert Jews.... that Christians need to recognize that Jews are "Already saved" and "dont need Christ".

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
- John 14:6

I dont see a carve out for Jews. I don't see a carve out for Israel. I don't see a carve out for anyone.

If believing Christ's own words...  makes a Christian an anti-semite... so be it. Believe what you want to believe about us. But this is the truth of what Christianity is all about. There are no exemptions.
I am a *HORRIBLE* Christian, and even *I* know this. Andrew Klavan must know it.

Tomorrow, Christians will be observing Good Friday. The day that Christ himself, took nails into his own hands... and feet... to die for a piece of shit like me. All we are asked, is to not shy away when we are asked what we believe. Andrew Klavan failed. I hope he failed due to an honest misunderstanding... and not because he put mammon before God.... or fear of persecution... or fear of alienation from friends and family.... or fear from harsh criticism and canceling.

I hope, for his own soul... that this is due to some weird, misguided, twisted interpretation that he somehow accidentally wrapped himself up in. But I doubt it. He doesn't come across as stupid.
My honest belief, is that he simply was saying what he felt he had to say... to be accepted.... to not be the next one on the chopping block at the Daily Caller.

I get that some will bring up Candace Owens and claim she's no Christian either. *MAYBE*.

MAYBE she's saying all the right things, for all the wrong reasons. MAYBE she is a charlatan. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised. She does have a shady history. I do hope she's sincere in her proclamations for Christ... but I have my doubts because of that aforementioned history. But the bible even tells us, that even if a Charlatan is telling the truth... for their own gain and not for the furtherance of the Kingdom... that we should still rejoice because still yet the truth of Christ is being proclaimed. Perhaps, if we pray for her... if she is a charlatan... maybe someday her own proclamations will actually start to enter her own heart and become sincere. "Fake it till you make it" kinda thing.

Regardless, this issue goes way beyond Candace Owens.

Again ... I truly hope, that Andrew Klavan recognizes the errors of what he is teaching... the absolute dishonor he has placed upon the martyrs... and the contradiction of Christ's own words. I truly hope, that he said this out of sincere, yet mistaken, belief... and that his belief can be corrected through discipleship and loving correction from fellow Christians. Because the only alternative... is willful heresy... and willful false teaching. The bible, does not have anything good to say about people who willfully and knowingly teach falsehoods.

I've said my piece.

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I’m confused. So are all Jewish people bound for the lake of fire? Serious question, not trying to start an altercation.

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https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/346870/extra_shit_jpg-3172492.JPG



ETA: I'm not a Christian, but if I was I wouldn't concern myself with a whole bunch of extra shit. I'd just study and follow The Bible.

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I'm confused. So are all Jewish people bound for the lake of fire? Serious question, not trying to start an altercation.

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So, the whole Reaganite "Big Tent" doctrine, which was pretty successful winning elections and governing the country, is a relic of the bygone age, to be replaced by a theocratic litmus test. Good luck with all that

I'm a pretty hardcore conservative, but I'm not about to tolerate a Christian Taliban, which is exactly what you're proposing. The principal conceit of Christianity insists upon belief that God is so weak in convincing people of his omnipotence and all encompassing goodness that his creation can only gain salvation through the interposition of an intermediary Jesus. In the Old Testament that I embrace, that salvation was granted for all time on Mt Sinai and has never wavered (both in my embrace of the knowledge and strength it imparted and the commitment it demanded in return). I respect the adherents of Christianity, and I expect respect in return as your elder brother in faith. Which one of us is ultimately right? I fear that will not be known until the day of judgement. If proven wrong, I will be the first to apologize either in this world or the next. If proven right, I expect the same.

This mutual forbearance and acceptance of these differing but complementary paths of faith to the One True
God were at the very core of the Enlightenment thought that motivated the Founders. Their vision of the Freedom of Religion saw not to embrace a theocratic state imposed religion but to allow for the practice of all faiths in law abiding peace free of the centuries of religious warfare that devastated Europe. It was not a negative prohibitory legal statement but a positive dedication to freedom. A belief in One God, a Hundred Gods or No God coexisting alongside one another was the vision in 1788 and we would do well to remind ourselves and rededicate ourselves to it.

To denigrate my admittedly all too imperfect commitment to Judaism and equate it with disloyalty to this country and its principles is detestable and calls into question your understanding of conservatism and the Constitution.

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Are you saying heaven was closed until Christ was crucified on the cross?
So all who lived and died before Christ were condemned to hell?

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I’m confused. So are all Jewish people bound for the lake of fire? Serious question, not trying to start an altercation.

Quoted:


@Tobysi

If you believe you can't make up for the wrongs you've done and that Christ died for your sins, you're saved.

Jews can (and do) believe that just like anyone else, and there's not one tiny bit of that which requires them to be non-jewish.

A whole bunch of that which passes for jewishness is not essential to being a jew.

There's a fairly easyish way to grasp this:

If we say abraham was a jew, than all the stuff that's come along since his time cannot make you any more jewish.

You either share his beliefs that made him jewish, or you don't.

Christians believe in the jewish messiah, who was *always* promised to not only them, but the whole world.

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In that regard I understand if you believe you are saving Andrew Klavan and people who would listen to them from a terrible fate by showing them how Andrew's views are wrong. I will assume you and OP are being earnest.

My reason for posting was OP seemed pretty upset and my only advice was that he can still have a good relationship with Jesus without worrying about all these modern internet personalities. There are thousands upon thousands of them and you won't fix them all. OP can control his own relationship with God which I think would be most important in the end.

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Andrew Klavan is a internet personality, commentator and author, from whom no one has to take spiritual advice.  

OP gets offended that Klavan's beliefs do not comport with his own.

OP rants on unrelated gun board about it.

OP feels better

/thread

Quoted:


I mean fundamentalist, as in treating the Bible literally. It is modernly recognized as a movement starting in the 1800’s in the US.

While many of the founding fathers were Christian and recognized the Judeo-Christian values as being superior to others, most of them would not fall into that category. I am not going to go through their various beliefs, because they were pretty wide ranging, but I will point to the very first amendment in the Bill of Rights, refusing to allow a government religion.

Quoted:

Or a whole bunch of stuff got added after abraham that is not required for a person to be jewish.

Meaning a whole bunch of modern judaism isn't required to make a person jewish.

If you have to flatly reject something to share faith in abraham's messiah ...

If it is of God, it will stand. If it is not, it won't.

True jews are those who share the same faith abraham did and who follow God, in his footsteps.

You can be a son of abraham and sara by the flesh and a jew in that right, but also not a jew because you reject those things from him.

In the same way you can be an american by legal right, but reject america's culture.

We make these sorts of distinctions all the time.

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He isn't a Christian.

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Did Jesus and the Apostles rebuke unbelievers and wayward believers? I think they did, especially if they went public. Should we not be like Jesus and the Apostles. But let's not let anger get the better of us. God will change whom He wills to.

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Eternal judgement is God’s job, not yours.  

Are you casting the first stone here?

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I know nothing about Klavan but your angry rant makes you look like a fundamentalist Muslim: “my interpretation of the holy text is the correct one and everyone else’s interpretation is wrong”

That isn’t Christian.

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Do you believe he’s leading others a stray?