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Posted: 4/16/2024 5:29:34 AM EDT
 Ask Ian: .223 vs 5.56 and "Military Grade Ammo" He explains the differences between 223 v 556 and basically says "Everyone is too afraid to say it in litigation wary America, but there's really little difference and we'd see blown up rifles all the time if it mattered" I didn't say that, he did, don't sue me. Nearly every other video from places like Brownells and reloaders who explain the difference in greater detail say not to. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 5:31:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Gamma762]
[#1]
Already done 12 years ago... one would have thought that most would have already understood this:
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/5-56-vs-223/ |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 5:33:45 AM EDT
[#2]
Many, many moons ago, I fired thousands of rounds of 5.56 through a .223. Long before I "knew" you were not supposed to do that.
So, too each his own. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 6:13:08 AM EDT
[#3]
Pretty much everyone did until the internet……….
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Posted: 4/16/2024 6:15:49 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By psp6785: Pretty much everyone did until the internet . |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 6:18:12 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By psp6785: Pretty much everyone did until the internet………. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 6:34:14 AM EDT
[#6]
you can shoot 50 bmg out of a 12ga once. nobody is asking 'is it possible'. everyone is asking for long term consequences. for example, if the throat goes from 2 moa to 6 moa in 5k rounds, i'd definitely go with the correct caliber. and forgotten weapons are subject matter experts = nobodies. things like hoop stress, tensile or impulse are not addressed. as an alternative, garand thumb Does bring in an engineer to measure these specs. while garand thumb isn't educated in nuance, he was at least smart enough to know to bring in someone who did.
small differences add up. the bigger the difference, the faster it adds up. the 50 in 12ga is egregious. i've seen plenty of 9mm casing that were 'ejected' out of a 10mm. i don't know what other stupid shit happens, but more deformation is more wear. just because some guns can sometimes, doesn't mean all guns can do it all the time. speaking of liability, if something does go wrong, would you rather submit a warranty to the manufacturer with the correct ammo or would you submit it to forgotten weapons with the incorrect ammo? forgotten weapons, as the name implies, are purely there for historical reference. personally, the amount of provably incorrect shit on their channel has made me question whether the history stuff is accurate too. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 6:45:42 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pavami: you can shoot 50 bmg out of a 12ga once. nobody is asking 'is it possible'. everyone is asking for long term consequences. for example, if the throat goes from 2 moa to 6 moa in 5k rounds, i'd definitely go with the correct caliber. and forgotten weapons are subject matter experts = nobodies. things like hoop stress, tensile or impulse are not addressed. as an alternative, garand thumb Does bring in an engineer to measure these specs. while garand thumb isn't educated in nuance, he was at least smart enough to know to bring in someone who did. small differences add up. the bigger the difference, the faster it adds up. the 50 in 12ga is egregious. i've seen plenty of 9mm casing that were 'ejected' out of a 10mm. i don't know what other stupid shit happens, but more deformation is more wear. just because some guns can sometimes, doesn't mean all guns can do it all the time. speaking of liability, if something does go wrong, would you rather submit a warranty to the manufacturer with the correct ammo or would you submit it to forgotten weapons with the incorrect ammo? forgotten weapons, as the name implies, are purely there for historical reference. personally, the amount of provably incorrect shit on their channel has made me question whether the history stuff is accurate too. A rare, perfect take on the issue. You should be ashamed!  Posts like yours are what make arf a good thing. Thank you. |
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NE, USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 6:52:42 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By psp6785: Pretty much everyone did until the internet………. this, bunch of scared Sally's nowadays this world has gotten pathetic |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 6:56:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Ibn_Huq]
[#9]
That query is what first brought me to this place through the Ammo Oracle in 2001
https://www.ar15.com/ammo-oracle/history/difference.html |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 6:59:08 AM EDT
[#10]
Don't worry about it. They are functionally the same.
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 7:15:17 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pavami: you can shoot 50 bmg out of a 12ga once. nobody is asking 'is it possible'. everyone is asking for long term consequences. for example, if the throat goes from 2 moa to 6 moa in 5k rounds, i'd definitely go with the correct caliber. and forgotten weapons are subject matter experts = nobodies. things like hoop stress, tensile or impulse are not addressed. as an alternative, garand thumb Does bring in an engineer to measure these specs. while garand thumb isn't educated in nuance, he was at least smart enough to know to bring in someone who did. small differences add up. the bigger the difference, the faster it adds up. the 50 in 12ga is egregious. i've seen plenty of 9mm casing that were 'ejected' out of a 10mm. i don't know what other stupid shit happens, but more deformation is more wear. just because some guns can sometimes, doesn't mean all guns can do it all the time. speaking of liability, if something does go wrong, would you rather submit a warranty to the manufacturer with the correct ammo or would you submit it to forgotten weapons with the incorrect ammo? forgotten weapons, as the name implies, are purely there for historical reference. personally, the amount of provably incorrect shit on their channel has made me question whether the history stuff is accurate too. This is a solid take, the takeaway for me being "it's not dangerous, but probably not the best thing to do for accuracy and wear." Which is fine. I wouldn't sweat dumping a few cases of 5.56 down an imagined $80 black Friday Bear Creek .223 barrel if such an animal existed, but would have reservations about running it in an HK SL8 or some such expensive fancy thing. On Forgotten Weapons though, Ian has done more than 3,000 videos to date, as of the last time I pulled the archive down to have a local version. With that volume of content, I am sure you're right that he's gotten some things wrong. However, he has created the single best general reference collection of firearms information in existence with as much historical context and information as he's able to give. Without politics or drama, and served up for free. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 7:17:27 AM EDT
[#12]
Wait!
You're not supposed to? 
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OH, USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 7:21:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DaveM4K]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pavami: you can shoot 50 bmg out of a 12ga once. nobody is asking 'is it possible'. everyone is asking for long term consequences. for example, if the throat goes from 2 moa to 6 moa in 5k rounds, i'd definitely go with the correct caliber. and forgotten weapons are subject matter experts = nobodies. things like hoop stress, tensile or impulse are not addressed. as an alternative, garand thumb Does bring in an engineer to measure these specs. while garand thumb isn't educated in nuance, he was at least smart enough to know to bring in someone who did. small differences add up. the bigger the difference, the faster it adds up. the 50 in 12ga is egregious. i've seen plenty of 9mm casing that were 'ejected' out of a 10mm. i don't know what other stupid shit happens, but more deformation is more wear. just because some guns can sometimes, doesn't mean all guns can do it all the time. speaking of liability, if something does go wrong, would you rather submit a warranty to the manufacturer with the correct ammo or would you submit it to forgotten weapons with the incorrect ammo? forgotten weapons, as the name implies, are purely there for historical reference. personally, the amount of provably incorrect shit on their channel has made me question whether the history stuff is accurate too. Do you feel better now? “5.56 NATO chamber having a 0.125” longer leade”. Is the only difference. Most can’t tell me what leade means without looking it up. 5.56 NATO is loaded to higher pressures, sometimes. All .223 barrels made in the last 50 years will handle NATO pressures. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:29:52 AM EDT
[#14]
I have 26 rifles chambered in 5.56x45mm and 4 chambered in .223.
I have shot a huge mix out of 2 of the .223 rifles, while I generally shoot handloads out of the other 2 (a Varmint AR with a 24-inch 1:10 twist barrel) and a Remington XR100, because they both seem to shoot 50 grain bullets better, and not much of that is available commercially. I agree with the poster above that no one ever even considered such a thing before the internet and I will add, no one probably died from it either. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:17:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: _DR]
[#15]
I have always disregarded the 5.56 in a .223 doom harangues. Never blew anything up. Only had 2 rifles with a true .223 chambers though.
I did blow a no-name bolt carrier back into the buffer tube when it sheared the clearly substandard gas key bolts, shooting hot surplus Radway Green ammo. My Colt carbine shot the same ammo and did fine. Small parts QC matters. That ammo was pretty hot though, made for the L85 apparently. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:24:30 AM EDT
[#16]
SAAMI and gun manufacturers will go through great lengths to change a new cartridge so it can't chamber and fire in a similar chamber that would cause an issue.
For some reason they didn't do this with .223/5.56 I wonder why??? |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:27:08 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Macchina: SAAMI and gun manufacturers will go through great lengths to change a new cartridge so it can't chamber and fire in a similar chamber that would cause an issue. For some reason they didn't do this with .223/5.56 I wonder why??? |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:29:08 AM EDT
[#18]
What if I load .223 brass in 5.56 dies? Am I going to die??
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:31:06 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NOMAAM: What if I load .223 brass in 5.56 dies? Am I going to die?? RIP NOMAAM He was an idiot, but he was OUR idiot. 
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:36:04 AM EDT
[#20]
We did this recently. The pressures are measured differently, so the numbers are not as far apart as they appear on paper. Not material in terms of safety.
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:38:05 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Macchina: SAAMI and gun manufacturers will go through great lengths to change a new cartridge so it can't chamber and fire in a similar chamber that would cause an issue. For some reason they didn't do this with .223/5.56 I wonder why??? .300 Eldest Son says your 1st statement is incorrect. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:46:42 AM EDT
[#22]
The Big Problem is the popular and several thousand psi's incorrect claim that 5.56X45 ammunition operates at 62000, or 63000, or 64000 psi, or thereabouts.
It does not, that ~62 ksi pressure is out in the 3 sigma end of test samples. |
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SD, USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:49:24 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Macchina: SAAMI and gun manufacturers will go through great lengths to change a new cartridge so it can't chamber and fire in a similar chamber that would cause an issue. For some reason they didn't do this with .223/5.56 I wonder why??? Because 5.56x45 was a Mil-Std, not SAAMI approved. It's only been approved relatively recently. Same for 7.62x51. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 10:03:14 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NOMAAM: What if I load .223 brass in 5.56 dies? Am I going to die?? Dimensions of the case are the same, chamber leade is the difference, iirc. Disregard if joking. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 11:14:19 AM EDT
[#25]
My Colt 6721 receiver says .223, it's oem 1:9 barrel says 5.56, it's not a question that concerns me.
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Posted: 4/16/2024 11:23:30 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NOMAAM: What if I load .223 brass in 5.56 dies? Am I going to die?? The better question is where will you find 5.56X45 dies. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 11:25:01 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bikedamon: We did this recently. The pressures are measured differently, so the numbers are not as far apart as they appear on paper. Not material in terms of safety. CUP and piezo pressures are available for both cartridges. The pressure measurement method is not the reason. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 11:26:38 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NOMAAM: What if I load .223 brass in 5.56 dies? Am I going to die?? Someday, yes. But not due to this. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 11:46:47 AM EDT
[#29]
Has anyone actually had or personally seen a gun blow up from shooting 556 in a 223? It has to happen all the time for the myth to be true right?
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Posted: 4/16/2024 11:56:47 AM EDT
[#30]
I have seen many primers blown out of the back of a shell of a 556 in 223 barrel. The only reason I know is the priners wedged under the trigger and the ar wouldn't fire
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 11:58:13 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pavami: you can shoot 50 bmg out of a 12ga once. nobody is asking 'is it possible'. everyone is asking for long term consequences. for example, if the throat goes from 2 moa to 6 moa in 5k rounds, i'd definitely go with the correct caliber. and forgotten weapons are subject matter experts = nobodies. things like hoop stress, tensile or impulse are not addressed. as an alternative, garand thumb Does bring in an engineer to measure these specs. while garand thumb isn't educated in nuance, he was at least smart enough to know to bring in someone who did. small differences add up. the bigger the difference, the faster it adds up. the 50 in 12ga is egregious. i've seen plenty of 9mm casing that were 'ejected' out of a 10mm. i don't know what other stupid shit happens, but more deformation is more wear. just because some guns can sometimes, doesn't mean all guns can do it all the time. speaking of liability, if something does go wrong, would you rather submit a warranty to the manufacturer with the correct ammo or would you submit it to forgotten weapons with the incorrect ammo? forgotten weapons, as the name implies, are purely there for historical reference. personally, the amount of provably incorrect shit on their channel has made me question whether the history stuff is accurate too. Bravo sir. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 12:00:34 PM EDT
[#32]
There used to be epic purse swinging over that question. Was always very entertaining.
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Posted: 4/16/2024 12:02:47 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By luscioman: I have seen many primers blown out of the back of a shell of a 556 in 223 barrel. The only reason I know is the priners wedged under the trigger and the ar wouldn't fire |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 12:03:01 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tooldforthis: this, bunch of scared Sally's nowadays this world has gotten pathetic Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tooldforthis: Originally Posted By psp6785: Pretty much everyone did until the internet………. this, bunch of scared Sally's nowadays this world has gotten pathetic Will shooting 5.56 out of a .223 make me a goddamn sexual tyrannosaurus? |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 12:03:35 PM EDT
[#35]
They say you can shoot commercial .30-06 out of a Garand now too.
But the people saying that haven't stepped up with a guarantee to fix my rifle if they're wrong. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 12:06:05 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: .300 Eldest Son says your 1st statement is incorrect. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By Macchina: SAAMI and gun manufacturers will go through great lengths to change a new cartridge so it can't chamber and fire in a similar chamber that would cause an issue. For some reason they didn't do this with .223/5.56 I wonder why??? .300 Eldest Son says your 1st statement is incorrect.  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 12:06:41 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pavami: you can shoot 50 bmg out of a 12ga once. nobody is asking 'is it possible'. everyone is asking for long term consequences. for example, if the throat goes from 2 moa to 6 moa in 5k rounds, i'd definitely go with the correct caliber. and forgotten weapons are subject matter experts = nobodies. things like hoop stress, tensile or impulse are not addressed. as an alternative, garand thumb Does bring in an engineer to measure these specs. while garand thumb isn't educated in nuance, he was at least smart enough to know to bring in someone who did. small differences add up. the bigger the difference, the faster it adds up. the 50 in 12ga is egregious. i've seen plenty of 9mm casing that were 'ejected' out of a 10mm. i don't know what other stupid shit happens, but more deformation is more wear. just because some guns can sometimes, doesn't mean all guns can do it all the time. speaking of liability, if something does go wrong, would you rather submit a warranty to the manufacturer with the correct ammo or would you submit it to forgotten weapons with the incorrect ammo? forgotten weapons, as the name implies, are purely there for historical reference. personally, the amount of provably incorrect shit on their channel has made me question whether the history stuff is accurate too. Is there any data that shows a degradation in group size or change in velocity? |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 12:09:58 PM EDT
[#38]
To further screw things up, early Mini 14’s had the barrels marked .223, but we’re actually 5.56 NATO barrels. Fact, check me. It’s true.
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Posted: 4/16/2024 12:13:14 PM EDT
[#39]
I'll stick to the correct round for the weapon system. I don't care what some youtube dork says.
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MS, USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 12:15:28 PM EDT
[#40]
No, it's like dividing by zero. You can damage the space time continuum.
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Posted: 4/16/2024 12:18:22 PM EDT
[#41]
How many people have bought used .223 rifles? You know nothing about what kind of ammo was fired through them.
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ITA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 12:18:51 PM EDT
[#42]
The interweb told me it’s the other way around for 762 vs 308
I’ve only shot 308 in my surplus StG58 and I’m still alive |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 12:19:58 PM EDT
[#43]
My ARs don't care.
My TC contender carbine doesn't like it. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 12:20:41 PM EDT
[#44]
I did not even realize this was still a question.
Amazing. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 12:23:34 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jeremy2171: same as the 762/308 mumbo jumbo Yep, its all a bunch of nothing. Shoot it and be happy. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 12:24:06 PM EDT
[#46]
Originally Posted By Aimless:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fmcdaAOkY4He explains the differences between 223 v 556 and basically says "Everyone is too afraid to say it in litigation wary America, but there's really little difference and we'd see blown up rifles all the time if it mattered" I didn't say that, he did, don't sue me. Nearly every other video from places like Brownells and reloaders who explain the difference in greater detail say not to. Oh. FFS, not this crapola again.... Fine. Don't want to shoot 5.56? Excellent. More for me. Don't want to shoot 223? Excellent. More for me. Please. Stop beating this poor horse. He's had enough I think. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 12:31:25 PM EDT
[#47]
Mini 14's have been marked both .223 and 5.56 on their barrels and I doubt there was much difference except the stamp.
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Posted: 4/16/2024 12:33:38 PM EDT
[#48]
It’s all in the throat length. I have 3 bolt guns in 223 that I’ve shot 5.56x45 through. My Ruger Hawkeye has a very stiff bolt lift from SS109. My savages do not. Short throat in the Ruger compared to the Savages I have and most other rifle makers are fine to put 5.56 through.
Most of my ARs are chambered in 223 Wylde. Hybrid throat that’s not Linda Lovelace like 5.56 is. No issues there at all. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 1:22:31 PM EDT
[#49]
There's no real difference, same as .308 vs. 7.62.
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Posted: 4/16/2024 1:27:42 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Calculating: Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Calculating: Originally Posted By psp6785: Pretty much everyone did until the internet………. |
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