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Posted: 4/16/2024 6:24:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Aimless]
https://www.wjer.com/news/gun-shop-owner-sentenced-for-ammo-resale-scheme/
Timberlake, of G and R Tactical, and a police officer accomplice ordered ammunition through the police dept to get a reduced rate. Timberlake somehow paid for it. Timberlake made the mistake of picking up the ammo and the ammo distributor smelled a rat, probably because some small PD made a huge order for ammo and the ammo was picked up by some random non policeman. Both Timberlake and the officer were charged with felonies and plead to misdemeanors. Oops the cop plead to a felony Timberlake was sentenced to 90 days in jail and 90 days house arrest. I'm surprised he got jail time. The police supply company said they were out about $18k on the police discount price v if they sold the ammo at full price but they didn't ask for restitution. edit unrelated but the Timberlakes sold their interest in the m4carbine website. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 6:28:39 AM EDT
[#1]
Not very smart.
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Posted: 4/16/2024 6:29:47 AM EDT
[#2]
Muh 6920!!
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Posted: 4/16/2024 6:32:18 AM EDT
[#3]
Why not suspend the sentence if they pay the police supply company back the difference in price? $1,000 fine seems pointless. Why not make restitution part of the deal to drop some of the charges? The cop got fucked hard with the felony conviction but this guy skates with only 90 days in jail and a misdemeanor? Did he testify against the cop?
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Posted: 4/16/2024 6:34:29 AM EDT
[#4]
This warms my heart.
Karma, bitch. 
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Posted: 4/16/2024 6:37:00 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast: This warms my heart. Karma, bitch. This. That dude is a turd. He was always the first guy to call factories and report other dealers for MAP violations. Couldn’t have happened to a more deserving guy. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 6:37:16 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast: This warms my heart. Karma, bitch. Yep |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 6:38:36 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By C-4: Why not suspend the sentence if they pay the police supply company back the difference in price? $1,000 fine seems pointless. Why not make restitution part of the deal to drop some of the charges? The cop got fucked hard with the felony conviction but this guy skates with only 90 days in jail and a misdemeanor? Did he testify against the cop? I think the state had them both red handed and Grant didn't testify against his accomplice. Cop probably got it harder because he was in a "position of trust" |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 6:40:45 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Aimless: The police supply company probably got a letter asking if they wanted restitution and ignored it. They did get paid for the ammo at the Leo rate. I think Grant would have been better off if they asked for it. Then he could have paid it and looked better to the judge. I think the state had them both red handed and Grant didn't testify against his accomplice. Cop probably got it harder because he was in a "position of trust" Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Aimless: Originally Posted By C-4: Why not suspend the sentence if they pay the police supply company back the difference in price? $1,000 fine seems pointless. Why not make restitution part of the deal to drop some of the charges? The cop got fucked hard with the felony conviction but this guy skates with only 90 days in jail and a misdemeanor? Did he testify against the cop? I think the state had them both red handed and Grant didn't testify against his accomplice. Cop probably got it harder because he was in a "position of trust" Got it. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 6:44:54 AM EDT
[#9]
Every place I worked at had ammo shipped directly to the agency
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 6:54:44 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Linvx: This. That dude is a turd. He was always the first guy to call factories and report other dealers for MAP violations. Couldn’t have happened to a more deserving guy. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Linvx: Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast: This warms my heart. Karma, bitch. This. That dude is a turd. He was always the first guy to call factories and report other dealers for MAP violations. Couldn’t have happened to a more deserving guy. Wow. If true, then yeah, fuck that guy. Sometimes karma is real. Not sure why this would be a criminal case, though… They used department letterhead to order ammunition at dept. pricing, right? So that would be an issue for the cop, whom would be fired, and for G&R, whom would be blackballed by that distributor and possibly sued for the lost profit as well as legal costs. How the fuck is this a felony? They didn’t lose $18K, they sold at bulk pricing and found out the buyer wasn’t part of their special interest group. Isn’t that a civil issue, not a criminal one? |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 7:50:45 AM EDT
[#11]
Can he resume in the gun industry with a first degree misdemeanor conviction and incarceration once released?
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:04:41 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tc556guy: Every place I worked at had ammo shipped directly to the agency This.....guns and weapons too. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:06:36 AM EDT
[#13]
How is that a crime to get LE pricing?
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:10:10 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 42ATK: How is that a crime to get LE pricing? I understand why we don’t like him but agree that there’s no crime here. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:14:23 AM EDT
[#15]
I bought my M&P15-22 years ago from that dipshit.
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:15:15 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 42ATK: How is that a crime to get LE pricing? |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:15:56 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 42ATK: How is that a crime to get LE pricing? Fraud. Representative himself as LE. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:17:31 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Linvx: This. That dude is a turd. He was always the first guy to call factories and report other dealers for MAP violations. Couldn’t have happened to a more deserving guy. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Linvx: Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast: This warms my heart. Karma, bitch. This. That dude is a turd. He was always the first guy to call factories and report other dealers for MAP violations. Couldn’t have happened to a more deserving guy. That is some excellent context. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:19:33 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlabamaFan64: Fraud. Representative himself as LE. But he was partnered with LE to purchase it |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:20:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Kihn]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Linvx: This. That dude is a turd. He's a scammer on orders. Ordered from him once. It was such a fucking disaster never made that mistake again. ETA: his wife eventually made things right. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:20:46 AM EDT
[#21]
Originally Posted By Aimless: https://www.wjer.com/news/gun-shop-owner-sentenced-for-ammo-resale-scheme/ Timberlake, of G and R Tactical, and a police officer accomplice ordered ammunition through the police dept to get a reduced rate. Timberlake somehow paid for it. Timberlake made the mistake of picking up the ammo and the ammo distributor smelled a rat, probably because some small PD made a huge order for ammo and the ammo was picked up by some random non policeman. Both Timberlake and the officer were charged with felonies and plead to misdemeanors. Oops the cop plead to a felony Timberlake was sentenced to 90 days in jail and 90 days house arrest. I'm surprised he got jail time. The police supply company said they were out about $18k on the police discount price v if they sold the ammo at full price but they didn't ask for restitution. edit unrelated but the Timberlakes sold their interest in the m4carbine website. I thought the price difference was chiefly the Pittman Robertson tax. Government doesn’t pay it so they get an adjusted price plus what ever they get as a special deal. I don’t know at what point the tax is laid on the product or if the distributer has to fill out forms for tax credit. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:22:08 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dunderway: False tax exemption? That is what I was thinking,......skipping out on the Pittman Robertson tax. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:23:59 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dunderway: False tax exemption? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dunderway: Originally Posted By 42ATK: How is that a crime to get LE pricing? That would be my guess. I've had to go fill out tax exemption forms when placing a department order. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:24:37 AM EDT
[#24]
This happened during the Covid ammo crisis when defense ammo was unobtainable/ high priced.
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:25:51 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 42ATK: But he was partnered with LE to purchase it Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 42ATK: Originally Posted By AlabamaFan64: Fraud. Representative himself as LE. But he was partnered with LE to purchase it Yes, but the LE he was partnered with knowingly assisted him in buying ammo for a discount to be sold through his business. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:26:56 AM EDT
[#26]
I remember dealing with that dude like 20 years ago. Pretty sure I bought my first AR optic from him. I think it was an EOTech.
Think he was a kitchen table dealer back then and seemed like a solid dude. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:27:34 AM EDT
[#27]
That guy was always a huge asshole
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:30:10 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 42ATK: But he was partnered with LE to purchase it It is not legal to buy ammo on LE letterhead (and therefore avoid paying excise tax) and then sell it to civilians. The government wants their piece of the pie, and the tax laws are there to help them get it. Grant is a POS who got kicked off of ARFCOM for price fixing and it doesn’t surprise me in the least he would do something like this. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:35:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: JeepersCreepers]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 42ATK: How is that a crime to get LE pricing? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 42ATK: How is that a crime to get LE pricing? I don't get it either. The distributor agreed to sell a product for X price, and they received X price for the product. Business transaction, done deal. Should the distributor blacklist him and the police dept. and refuse to sell anything to them ever again? Absolutely. Originally Posted By AlabamaFan64: Fraud. Representative himself as LE. His LE friend did the transaction, all he did was go pick it up after it was already paid for. Am I committing stolen valor if I (non-military) get my military friend to order something from Lowe's with his 10% discount and then I go pick it up? |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:42:35 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlabamaFan64: Yes, but the LE he was partnered with knowingly assisted him in buying ammo for a discount to be sold through his business. Yeah, once I read that subsequent poster saying it was tax evasion, it made sense. I thought it was just a discount rate from dealer pricing |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:42:52 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Aimless: The police supply company probably got a letter asking if they wanted restitution and ignored it. They did get paid for the ammo at the Leo rate. I think Grant would have been better off if they asked for it. Then he could have paid it and looked better to the judge. I think the state had them both red handed and Grant didn't testify against his accomplice. Cop probably got it harder because he was in a "position of trust" The cop price is without the .gov taxes. The ammo supplier didn't lose a penny. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:45:05 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jmt1271: I remember dealing with that dude like 20 years ago. Pretty sure I bought my first AR optic from him. I think it was an EOTech. Think he was a kitchen table dealer back then and seemed like a solid dude. No. He had a business that stocked inventory. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:50:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: spmx7777]
[#33]
Grant was convicted of misdemeanor state telecom fraud charges, not federal excise tax charges, and will serve time in a county jail.
If the other guy is convicted of a felony state telecom fraud charge he’ll go to state prison. Can they still get busted on federal excise tax charges? I bought a few things from his shop over the years, never had any trouble, never knew of his history here either. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:02:25 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By arowneragain: I understand why we don’t like him but agree that there’s no crime here. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By arowneragain: Originally Posted By 42ATK: How is that a crime to get LE pricing? I understand why we don’t like him but agree that there’s no crime here. Yep. And a $18k difference lol. US Civilians are cash cow suckers. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:07:36 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dawg69: That would be my guess. I've had to go fill out tax exemption forms when placing a department order. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dawg69: Originally Posted By Dunderway: Originally Posted By 42ATK: How is that a crime to get LE pricing? That would be my guess. I've had to go fill out tax exemption forms when placing a department order. Wouldn't that be federal not state? |
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USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:10:05 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bama-Shooter: The cop price is without the .gov taxes. The ammo supplier didn't lose a penny. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bama-Shooter: Originally Posted By Aimless: The police supply company probably got a letter asking if they wanted restitution and ignored it. They did get paid for the ammo at the Leo rate. I think Grant would have been better off if they asked for it. Then he could have paid it and looked better to the judge. I think the state had them both red handed and Grant didn't testify against his accomplice. Cop probably got it harder because he was in a "position of trust" The cop price is without the .gov taxes. The ammo supplier didn't lose a penny. Govt probably got their taxes at final sale too. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:11:00 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rb889: Wow. If true, then yeah, fuck that guy. Sometimes karma is real. Not sure why this would be a criminal case, though… They used department letterhead to order ammunition at dept. pricing, right? So that would be an issue for the cop, whom would be fired, and for G&R, whom would be blackballed by that distributor and possibly sued for the lost profit as well as legal costs. How the fuck is this a felony? They didn’t lose $18K, they sold at bulk pricing and found out the buyer wasn’t part of their special interest group. Isn’t that a civil issue, not a criminal one? It's criminal fraud. Felony threshold in Ohio is $1k. The cop misused his position of public trust for private gain. This was during covid shortages when manufacturers were giving priority to the .government market. Grant couldn't get through commercial channels, so he found an accomplice to help him cheat the system for his own gain. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:17:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Dissident]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shotar: It's criminal fraud. Felony threshold in Ohio is $1k. The cop misused his position of public trust for private gain. This was during covid shortages when manufacturers were giving priority to the .government market. Grant couldn't get through commercial channels, so he found an accomplice to help him cheat the system for his own gain. That’s the American way. It’s about BS as not being able to lie to the FBI. ETA: I’m kidding. ETA: Sort of. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:19:48 AM EDT
[#39]
I bought something from him once, an SB tatical brace it never came in a box. It was a brace just wrapped in bubble wrap.
He actually goes by William Timberlake on facebook hes in the groups there selling, every time I see him post I laugh. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:20:56 AM EDT
[#40]
He plead a felony down to a misdemeanor.
Another guy going on trial today had his misdemeanor bumped to a felony. Hummmmmmm…. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:27:11 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Steviesegal: I bought something from him once, an SB tatical brace it never came in a box. It was a brace just wrapped in bubble wrap. He actually goes by William Timberlake on facebook hes in the groups there selling, every time I see him post I laugh. Its utter contempt for his customers. You became aware of it when you spoke with him on the phone. Like a televangelist. Without the charisma. And much more crude. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:34:37 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By madmacs69: Wouldn't that be federal not state? May have been state sales taxes that are not paid as well. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:43:32 AM EDT
[#43]
I'd have settled for public flogging but I guess this will do.
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MI, USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:45:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: kevins_garage]
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bama-Shooter: The cop price is without the .gov taxes. The ammo supplier didn't lose a penny. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bama-Shooter: Originally Posted By Aimless: The police supply company probably got a letter asking if they wanted restitution and ignored it. They did get paid for the ammo at the Leo rate. I think Grant would have been better off if they asked for it. Then he could have paid it and looked better to the judge. I think the state had them both red handed and Grant didn't testify against his accomplice. Cop probably got it harder because he was in a "position of trust" The cop price is without the .gov taxes. The ammo supplier didn't lose a penny. The supplier would likely make more margin on a sale at commercial pricing($X+$18K), vs a sale at LE price (just $X). If they actually lost $18k in margin and it wasn't just the difference in tax/no tax pricing, that must have been a very large order... |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:55:28 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlabamaFan64: Fraud. Representative himself as LE. Where did who do that? Didn’t the officer order the ammo? |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 10:06:23 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sinister: Can he resume in the gun industry with a first degree misdemeanor conviction and incarceration once released? He probably could run for mayor in some areas, but he has the wrong skin color. 
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Posted: 4/16/2024 10:10:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: tc556guy]
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 42ATK: How is that a crime to get LE pricing? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 42ATK: How is that a crime to get LE pricing? They're avoiding paying the taxes, plus I'm guessing that by the LEO working with the dealer they're getting whacked with some sort of conspiracy to defraud type charges. Originally Posted By 42ATK: But he was partnered with LE to purchase it Back when I would order ammunition through an ammo company on an individual officer status in my pre- FFL days, it always had to be done on agency letterhead with some sort of verbiage that it was for my personal use. I'm guessing that the LEO in this case had to do the same. Individual officer purchasers weren't exempt from the tax but I would have to guess that he still got a price break based on his LEO status that is part of the issue here |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 10:52:14 AM EDT
[#48]
I think they got in trouble for
-not paying sales tax by claiming it was going to the PD -filling out some form claiming the Police Dept was as buying (an actual case of falsifying business records) it |
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USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 11:05:23 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PeepEater: May have been state sales taxes that are not paid as well. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PeepEater: Originally Posted By madmacs69: Wouldn't that be federal not state? May have been state sales taxes that are not paid as well. Wouldn't those taxes have been calculated by the business at final point of sale? Assuming he was putting it through his business of course and not just selling it on the side as a private individual. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 11:20:00 AM EDT
[#50]
Moral of the story : don't be a douche bag. If you ARE a douche bag, don't be a stupid douche bag.
If you ARE a stupid douche bag then this is what you get. |
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